Ed Hillel said:
Nope. But this thread has suggested there will be a ref conspiracy to call the game in favor of Seattle before the game has played.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Nope. But this thread has suggested there will be a ref conspiracy to call the game in favor of Seattle before the game has played.
good point. I don't think he's competent in this area at all.JimD said:
Regardless of whether the league office is pissed at Polian, I don't understand why they would let something like this build for four days.
They are just inviting crazy, over the top reactions.
It does seem like the attention is on BB a lot more than Brady here, which is odd to me. From everything past players have said, I would think that this is an arrangement between Brady and the equipment manager or ball boy. I can't imagine how BB would have been involved at all, unless he was warned about it by the league and ignored it, which is certainly possible.
Catcher Block said:
Yeah, and that's why I'm afraid they might have been told ahead of time not to do this. Otherwise, the league is running a sting operation with Indy and Baltimore as confidential informants.
I've moved on. I am now on the sad and disappointed level. Which step is that?
The only thing I don't know is if I am more disappointed at the tampering, or the fact that they were dumb enough to get caught again. Because if this is going to be an ongoing theme with this team and ownership, they may want to work on the whole "lets cheat like everyone else, but cover our asses better".
The only thing I don't know is if I am more disappointed at the tampering, or the fact that they were dumb enough to get caught again. Because if this is going to be an ongoing theme with this team and ownership, they may want to work on the whole "lets cheat like everyone else, but cover our asses better".
Craig Carton may be a huge Jets homer/fanboi, but for the third or fourth day in a row, he is vocally and loudly defending the entire Pats organization, from Mr. Kraft down to the ball boys.
So assuming the League and Patriots have agreed not to talk concerning an ongoing investigation , ( which is really nonsense because the NFL is doing plenty of talking through anonymous sources ) , how do you script it from a Pats PR perspective ?
I may go with
Opening statement apologizing for any wrong doing. Say if the investigation turns out any intent those responsible will be fired. Throw in the hope for "due process" buzz phrase/word. Cooperating with the League and will do anything they want. Hope for a speedy resolution.
Than take questions and repeat the statement and We're on to Glendale/Seattle about a million times ....
I may go with
Opening statement apologizing for any wrong doing. Say if the investigation turns out any intent those responsible will be fired. Throw in the hope for "due process" buzz phrase/word. Cooperating with the League and will do anything they want. Hope for a speedy resolution.
Than take questions and repeat the statement and We're on to Glendale/Seattle about a million times ....
So basically Flacco and Luck must be the only QBs in the league to abide faithfully by the ball inflation rules?
Or are those guys gonna be pretty pissed next season when their fluttery, inaccurate passes are even more fluttery and inaccurate than usual because of the shiny standardized balls.
Or are those guys gonna be pretty pissed next season when their fluttery, inaccurate passes are even more fluttery and inaccurate than usual because of the shiny standardized balls.
If you haven't listened to yesterday's (wed) NFL Today podcast from ESPN I think it's worth your time. In the opening segment Tim Hasselbeck discussed the mechanics and methods involved with balls being handled before and during the game. He clearly stated that the condition of the ball is left entirely up to the whims of the quarterback and is between the quarterback and the equipment staff. He even went so far as to say that he would bet his house on the idea that Belichick wouldn't concern himself with this issue nor would any other coach.
Hasselbeck seems very credible and well-informed in this podcast, FWIW.
So, if he is to be believed the most culpable party here may be Brady himself. Countering that is Hasselbeck's assertion that this is common practice among NFL QBs though perhaps Brady was pushing it a little further than others do. Not sure what the NFL will say about this if anything but it is interesting.
Hasselbeck seems very credible and well-informed in this podcast, FWIW.
So, if he is to be believed the most culpable party here may be Brady himself. Countering that is Hasselbeck's assertion that this is common practice among NFL QBs though perhaps Brady was pushing it a little further than others do. Not sure what the NFL will say about this if anything but it is interesting.
jimbobim said:
So you want them to commit to firing Tom Brady if he's linked to it in any way?
I always try to figure out how things happen or are likely to have happened. In the absence of involved actors saying otherwise this is where my mind is:
The ball boys know nothing of science in general. They are like the ball boy article above and are simply doing what the quarterback likes. Scuff here, inflate/deflate there. Rogers likes his slightly over inflated (say .5 PSI higher). Brady likes his lower (say approximately .75 PSI lower). The QBs talk, they don't think it makes a material difference. I scuff mine this way, inflate this way. It's common knowledge, or at least all the cool QBs are doing it. Gannon/Johnson apparently mutually agreed to have the balls non-standard at their Superbowl. The ball boys (like those in Chicago) say "why not give them our ideal balls and see if they go through" all the way through the year. He puts one ball exactly at 12.5 PSI and leaves it on top. He sets the remainder of the balls identical (at -.75 PSI from spec) - and they do pass - via a feel test and visual inspection. From game 1 through to AFC Championship.
AFC Championship comes and the league tells the Ref to make sure the balls are ok, and the Ref has 20 million other things to do with playoff football and he begrudgingly takes out the guage and puts it to the one ball on top or whatever that is exactly 12.5 PSI and says screw it close enough, it's cold outside let the QBs have what they want. Nothing else happens via human intervention. The ball boys don't blink, because this is how we always do it (and do so around the league apparently).
As the weather turns colder, when there is a temperature discrepancy the ball PSI adjusts as science demands - but the ball boys aren't doing anything different - additional pressure drop just happens. Every QB experiences the drop in ball pressure it isn't avoidable. The league frankly hasn't paid attention in this area and doesn't know what is happening with the science and orders the balls tested at the half. Maybe they put the guages in on the field and they are 1.5-2 PSI low and they get pissed. They get the backup balls out (still indoors at room temperature) and measure them and because they are rarely used they are at the indoor perfect PSI. They put them in play.
The league has a bunch of issues at this point, they are pissed because they believe the Pats doctored the ball. They let some stuff get out because they know they are going to hammer the Pats. As they start to look at things, stuff comes out, the science comes out. The ball boy stories come out. The QBs start to talk to the press. The opposing kicker tweets he wishes the league would ackowledge the science and test PSI outdoors so the ball would be properly inflated. The Pats say they haven't touched the balls after the Ref looked at them - there is no need to. The league staff start to realize it isn't such a big deal - except perception. Maybe the Ref admits behind closed doors he only put the guage to one ball. Now the league has painted themselves into a corner, and has to figure out what to do.
That's my story... and I'm sticking to it.
If I'm the league, I ask every team/QB if they prefer a less inflated ball. If 50% or more say yes, then I change the PSI to a range of 12-13 +/- 0.5 and mandate they be checked (and adjusted) on field 20 minutes before kickoff and at the half. The teams gets to choose whatever PSI in that range. If they aren't willing to do that, then they need to still test for exactly 13 the same way as above.
If I'm the Patriots I grab 12 game balls and set them to 12.5 PSI. I get a league Ref on camera certiying them via guage as 12.5. I put all 12 in a refridgerator set at game time temp. I wait 2 hours and have the Ref test them again at the game temp. I get that video to the league office and then take out the rosary beads.
The ball boys know nothing of science in general. They are like the ball boy article above and are simply doing what the quarterback likes. Scuff here, inflate/deflate there. Rogers likes his slightly over inflated (say .5 PSI higher). Brady likes his lower (say approximately .75 PSI lower). The QBs talk, they don't think it makes a material difference. I scuff mine this way, inflate this way. It's common knowledge, or at least all the cool QBs are doing it. Gannon/Johnson apparently mutually agreed to have the balls non-standard at their Superbowl. The ball boys (like those in Chicago) say "why not give them our ideal balls and see if they go through" all the way through the year. He puts one ball exactly at 12.5 PSI and leaves it on top. He sets the remainder of the balls identical (at -.75 PSI from spec) - and they do pass - via a feel test and visual inspection. From game 1 through to AFC Championship.
AFC Championship comes and the league tells the Ref to make sure the balls are ok, and the Ref has 20 million other things to do with playoff football and he begrudgingly takes out the guage and puts it to the one ball on top or whatever that is exactly 12.5 PSI and says screw it close enough, it's cold outside let the QBs have what they want. Nothing else happens via human intervention. The ball boys don't blink, because this is how we always do it (and do so around the league apparently).
As the weather turns colder, when there is a temperature discrepancy the ball PSI adjusts as science demands - but the ball boys aren't doing anything different - additional pressure drop just happens. Every QB experiences the drop in ball pressure it isn't avoidable. The league frankly hasn't paid attention in this area and doesn't know what is happening with the science and orders the balls tested at the half. Maybe they put the guages in on the field and they are 1.5-2 PSI low and they get pissed. They get the backup balls out (still indoors at room temperature) and measure them and because they are rarely used they are at the indoor perfect PSI. They put them in play.
The league has a bunch of issues at this point, they are pissed because they believe the Pats doctored the ball. They let some stuff get out because they know they are going to hammer the Pats. As they start to look at things, stuff comes out, the science comes out. The ball boy stories come out. The QBs start to talk to the press. The opposing kicker tweets he wishes the league would ackowledge the science and test PSI outdoors so the ball would be properly inflated. The Pats say they haven't touched the balls after the Ref looked at them - there is no need to. The league staff start to realize it isn't such a big deal - except perception. Maybe the Ref admits behind closed doors he only put the guage to one ball. Now the league has painted themselves into a corner, and has to figure out what to do.
That's my story... and I'm sticking to it.
If I'm the league, I ask every team/QB if they prefer a less inflated ball. If 50% or more say yes, then I change the PSI to a range of 12-13 +/- 0.5 and mandate they be checked (and adjusted) on field 20 minutes before kickoff and at the half. The teams gets to choose whatever PSI in that range. If they aren't willing to do that, then they need to still test for exactly 13 the same way as above.
If I'm the Patriots I grab 12 game balls and set them to 12.5 PSI. I get a league Ref on camera certiying them via guage as 12.5. I put all 12 in a refridgerator set at game time temp. I wait 2 hours and have the Ref test them again at the game temp. I get that video to the league office and then take out the rosary beads.
Omar's Wacky Neighbor said:
I commend him for that. Him and boomer are probably the only reasonable people in NY on this topic.
bsan34 said:
Clearly, the fall guy in that scenario would be the ball boy who gets a hushed up Kraft going away gift. Not the QB for a common practice. Fall guys in scandals are pretty common and it's exceedingly rare the guys at the top admit to knowing anything and everything about an organization.
I'm not denying that Brady is going to have to answer some tough questions from the media,
And once again, jose melendez hits the nail directly on the head. Outstanding post and I'd love to see it happen. Goodell is a shitty executive, though, and will want to shift the blame to someone he can villainize - Bill Belichick.jose melendez said:
RoyHobbs said:
This is kind of my thinking. Right now and even more so once Brady retires, these guys and their teams will be AFC Super Bowl contenders every year. Now they are going to lose their ability to get their footballs they way they want to? In an era when the NFL is doing everything it can to increase scoring?
This whole thing makes no sense.
At a minimum, before any serious discipline, one would like to see that the refs did their jobs properly (inspection 5 minutes before game time) and that the Pats tampered aftrr that.
As far as I can tell we've seen no evidence either eaton this front
As far as I can tell we've seen no evidence either eaton this front
I think that's why a lot of people (myself included) feel that the original leak was likely from Irsay and not, say Pagano, or someone who actually has some clue what goes on on the field.loshjott said:
I'd be willing to bet that there are at least 20 really, really pissed of quarterbacks around the league right now who know that there are going to be more checks and balances on their balls next season, all because some big-mouthed drunk felt like carrying out his agenda after his team got their asses handed to them, again.
At the same time, I fully admit that it appears that there were rules that were broken. However innocuous, if the league finds some proof that the Patriots did tamper the balls after inspection, then they certainly deserve some sort of punishment.
I will say that media calling for BB and/or TB to be suspended for the Super Bowl are making just as much of a mockery of their profession (if not more) than Ballghazi has of the NFL.
I still think the big issue is if they altered them after the refs checked them. If so, that is pretty bad and deserves punishment. The prep work and getting the football to a QBs liking prior to submitting them seems more like expected/acceptable gamesmanship. Pretty much the Rodgers and Eli situation.
dcmissle said:
At the risk of branding myself a tool, I'll admit that I had no understanding that teams were allowed to supply their own footballs until this story broke.
This is, yet again, a completely self-inflicted wound for the NFL. The rules in place practically invite this madness and for the NFL to allow the commentary to fly out of control just shows how off-balance the league office is right now.
If you invite teams to supply balls that are "fixed" the the specifications of each QB, you can't treat a case of under inflation as a crisis of epic proportions and allow the narrative for the Super Bowl to spin out of control. If you realize that this is not an appropriate way for the NFL to conduct itself, you change the rule and force teams to play with balls supplied by the NFL.
We're on to Seattle. That's a league matter. I am not allowed to comment on an ongoing investigation. We're on to Seattle.
I've reached the Chucky in Good Will Hunting stage of this whole shitfest where the best part of my day is the few minutes after waking up before I turn on my computer and pull up SoSH where I hope that maybe this'll be the day this thread won't be at the top of BbtL.
OnWisc said:
If only the footballs had been deflated in an elevator, they wouldn't have known about this for months.
So the press conference has Gillette #Flexball behind it.
Maybe not the best adverstiment for today.
Maybe not the best adverstiment for today.
Well, he said he hadn't heard about the investigation until that morning. He did not say that he knew nothing about the team under-inflating or deflating balls.Mystic Merlin said:
Anyone find it ironic that the background to the Patriots press conference is a big ad for "Gillette #FlexBall"???
(edit: damn you DoDM)
(edit: damn you DoDM)
Sure you can. If you allow players to fix them to their liking before being checked. And if they don't meet specs they are deflated or inflated to meet specs. That's what Rodgers is saying. He hates it when they let air out of his footballs to meet specs. It sounds like rule was working but the Pats let air out after the check. That is an entirely different situation.Average Reds said:
I am continually inclined to credit Theo in here and think the one thing that will save BB is the attitude coming from must guys in the game, and guys like Carton who are giving common sense a broad platform.
Unfortunately, I think football players are human rather then robotic, and since they are not under anything like a lockdown, this has to be a huge distraction. Your team is being vilified, the worth of your efforts is being questioned, and you're wondering what lurks around the corner discipline wise. Plus you will be subjected to all the questions on media day. Not good
Unfortunately, I think football players are human rather then robotic, and since they are not under anything like a lockdown, this has to be a huge distraction. Your team is being vilified, the worth of your efforts is being questioned, and you're wondering what lurks around the corner discipline wise. Plus you will be subjected to all the questions on media day. Not good