Theory - the equipment guys wiggle the needles around when pumping to make the valves a little leaky. All at the behest of evil mastermind TB12, so the balls gradually lose pressure.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Hoya81 said:
I believe he's been on this kick for a while now. Everything that happens is squeezed in to fit the narrative.
One thing that should come out of this is that the NFL should be responsible for all the footballs, always. That they allow teams to have their own footballs for use is just inviting this kind of trouble. I know QBs will not like it, but hey, too bad.
Jed Zeppelin said:
If anything "I don't know, ask Tom about it" is like the highest possible praise BB could give a player. He's letting his star player handle the worst of a media shitstorm solo: BB wouldn't do that if he didn't have an unbelievable amount of faith in him.
As an investigator who writes copious reports for adjudicators, BB did a fantastic job. He explained his history with the situation, when and how he learned of the situation at hand, who else would know of the situation at hand (TB12), why he knows next to nothing about the situation at hand, and what he will do to prevent it in the future. He built his case that he knows next to nothing without coming across like Sgt. Schultz.
This would be most logical. "The equipment guys know how to condition the balls to my liking. The refs have already indicated that they tested all of them before the game, and they were all in spec. I've got too many other things on my mind during the game to worry about that."PaulinMyrBch said:
Although in a perfect world, he'd put together a Schweddy's Balls type riff and talk at length about how he likes his balls groomed, how he's talked with Giselle at breakfast about ball pressure, etc.
This is a total fan boy take, but it is what it is...
Brady likes softer footballs, so Pats are inflated to allowable minimum.
Luck likes harder ones, like Rodgers, so inflated higher.
Game conditions/temp/whatever reduced both sides but Colts still within league minimum, Pats not (disregarding the specifics of Mort's report of how much they deflated)
Profit.
Brady likes softer footballs, so Pats are inflated to allowable minimum.
Luck likes harder ones, like Rodgers, so inflated higher.
Game conditions/temp/whatever reduced both sides but Colts still within league minimum, Pats not (disregarding the specifics of Mort's report of how much they deflated)
Profit.
The NFL needs to release the measurements from before the game and halftime if they want to get this cleared up. Too many people will think the NFL swept it under the rug to protect the Pats like with spygate.
This all becomes really simple with the before and after numbers.
This all becomes really simple with the before and after numbers.
Simmons said what? I think I understand what it takes to be a sports journalist and op/Ed guy these days. Just come out with as much over the top shit as you want and if it doesn't stick who cares? This reminds me of the political scene. Sensationalized garbage. Hot garbage. Fresh garbage. No logic required. It's like listening to Ben Stein speak about how evolution doesn't prove gravity. Stupid on so many levels it's hard to contemplate. Where's the NFL's Thunderf00t when you need him?
In addition to Tom getting into the details of how he preps footballs before the game, I'd love to see him start the presser with a Circle-the-Wagons defense of Belichick.
I need to put some coherent thoughts together as this subject has, quite frankly, taken over my life. I know I have better things to do and I need to stop focusing 80% of the useful portion of my brain to this. Before I get too far into it, I should say that my opinion thus far is formed out of the facts as we know them, which are far from complete, plus some of the additional reports that have come out, which, as this point, appear that the guilt is on the Patriots. There is still a lot more that needs to come out, so I don’t think my opinions are set in stone, and anyway, mine are pretty easily swayed by whatever I heard last.
The Patriots have had a ridiculous amount of sustained success in a league that’s been designed to increase parity through free agency, the salary cap and unbalanced schedules. Those three things place an upper limit for the on-field product, but despite that, the Patriots have been able to excel by maximizing what they do off the field in terms of preparation and decision making. A lot of times, they’ve won the game before they’re played. Any fan of any team that hates the Patriots for this is rationalizing for their own team’s mediocrity. You can always outwork your opponent, most just don’t.
The NFL has a rulebook that governs on-field play and it also governs what occurs off the field. When a violation of the rules occurs on the field, a flag is thrown and a penalty is assessed. The penalty is predetermined, gets assessed and the game moves to the next play. Is every violation called a penalty? Heck no. Players on the field will push the rules to the limit; if they go too far they get flagged, and we move on to the next play. If the refs miss one and they don’t get flagged, we move on to the next play. Some penalties result in an ejection. These are typically for offenses that threaten the safety of another player. But the game moves on.
Off the field rules are no doubt very tricky to referee and even more tricky to penalize. If pushing the limits of the rules on the field of play is generally accepted as it is (because of that we have 7 guys in stripes paying attention), I would consider that the same should be true for off the field. The NFL is a printing press when it comes to money, but there is little or no enforcement for off the field infractions, other than after the fact. How can this be possible? When the margin between winning and losing is so razor thin, the sport, to me, loses a lot of credibility by not monitoring everything that goes on that can affect wins and losses. $10/hr ball boys that are team employees? For a multi-billion dollar enterprise, does that make any sense to anyone? To me, we as paying fans, whether we go to games or buy the jerseys or products they endorse, deserve better.
In baseball, when a pitcher is found to be doctoring the baseball in a way that breaks the rules, he will be ejected from the game if caught, like the Yankee game earlier in 2014. In the case of #Ballghazi, once it was found that the football's air pressure was below what the rule allows, there should have been a penalty. You can come up with your own penalty, but like baseball, I would eject the QB for that. There’s no reason to wait until after the fact to address the violation. The way the AFC championship game unfolded, it was obvious they could have won by handing the ball off to Blount the rest of the game. It would have been a big deal to eject Brady, but I don’t think would have affected the outcome.
This is what the Patriots and Bill Belichick do. They’ve been limited by the league to gain advantages in terms of player personnel, limits that were not around for great coaches like Walsh, Knoll, Landry and Lombardi. So they look for an edge elsewhere, and push the rules where other teams don’t. Just like when a player draws a flag, sometimes they take it too far. I don’t think that it undermines the integrity of the game, but I do think it deserves a penalty. And I think it needs to be identified and dealt with in real time, not days or weeks or years after the fact. Again, we are talking about billions and billions of dollars, not to mention the gambling associated with the NFL. The reason right now why it comes down to integrity is because the off the field rules are not enforced by guys in stripes. It’s more of a code or honor system. We know it's not just the Patriots that are guilty of bending the rules. However, their success, attitude with the media, and history of bending and sometimes breaking the rules makes them a target of opposing fans, media and former players. Go ahead, fine or suspend Belichick, but if you do you aren’t fixing the problem. The problem is that you hide behind this veil called the shield and say the game has integrity but it doesn’t. Referee the whole game, not just what’s on TV on Sunday. I want to know that the team I root for is doing it the right way.
In the few days that have passed since we first heard of the incident, the way it’s been handled by the NFL and the press has been awful. They’ve grabbed headlines about something so rediculous which they probably like, but they also succeeded at zapping all the fun out of the Superbowl. No matter what happens as far as a verdict/penalty, Superbowl XLIX will be tainted, whether real or not. The media are dusting off their old stories and rehashing the tuck rule, spygate, and everything else. But it’s all based on some code where rules are often bent and sometimes broken, but we only find out about it when someone (looking at you, Jim Irsay) gets pissed and brings it into the public eye. Make rules, monitor and enforce them, and quit all this gamesmanship garbage.
The Patriots have had a ridiculous amount of sustained success in a league that’s been designed to increase parity through free agency, the salary cap and unbalanced schedules. Those three things place an upper limit for the on-field product, but despite that, the Patriots have been able to excel by maximizing what they do off the field in terms of preparation and decision making. A lot of times, they’ve won the game before they’re played. Any fan of any team that hates the Patriots for this is rationalizing for their own team’s mediocrity. You can always outwork your opponent, most just don’t.
The NFL has a rulebook that governs on-field play and it also governs what occurs off the field. When a violation of the rules occurs on the field, a flag is thrown and a penalty is assessed. The penalty is predetermined, gets assessed and the game moves to the next play. Is every violation called a penalty? Heck no. Players on the field will push the rules to the limit; if they go too far they get flagged, and we move on to the next play. If the refs miss one and they don’t get flagged, we move on to the next play. Some penalties result in an ejection. These are typically for offenses that threaten the safety of another player. But the game moves on.
Off the field rules are no doubt very tricky to referee and even more tricky to penalize. If pushing the limits of the rules on the field of play is generally accepted as it is (because of that we have 7 guys in stripes paying attention), I would consider that the same should be true for off the field. The NFL is a printing press when it comes to money, but there is little or no enforcement for off the field infractions, other than after the fact. How can this be possible? When the margin between winning and losing is so razor thin, the sport, to me, loses a lot of credibility by not monitoring everything that goes on that can affect wins and losses. $10/hr ball boys that are team employees? For a multi-billion dollar enterprise, does that make any sense to anyone? To me, we as paying fans, whether we go to games or buy the jerseys or products they endorse, deserve better.
In baseball, when a pitcher is found to be doctoring the baseball in a way that breaks the rules, he will be ejected from the game if caught, like the Yankee game earlier in 2014. In the case of #Ballghazi, once it was found that the football's air pressure was below what the rule allows, there should have been a penalty. You can come up with your own penalty, but like baseball, I would eject the QB for that. There’s no reason to wait until after the fact to address the violation. The way the AFC championship game unfolded, it was obvious they could have won by handing the ball off to Blount the rest of the game. It would have been a big deal to eject Brady, but I don’t think would have affected the outcome.
This is what the Patriots and Bill Belichick do. They’ve been limited by the league to gain advantages in terms of player personnel, limits that were not around for great coaches like Walsh, Knoll, Landry and Lombardi. So they look for an edge elsewhere, and push the rules where other teams don’t. Just like when a player draws a flag, sometimes they take it too far. I don’t think that it undermines the integrity of the game, but I do think it deserves a penalty. And I think it needs to be identified and dealt with in real time, not days or weeks or years after the fact. Again, we are talking about billions and billions of dollars, not to mention the gambling associated with the NFL. The reason right now why it comes down to integrity is because the off the field rules are not enforced by guys in stripes. It’s more of a code or honor system. We know it's not just the Patriots that are guilty of bending the rules. However, their success, attitude with the media, and history of bending and sometimes breaking the rules makes them a target of opposing fans, media and former players. Go ahead, fine or suspend Belichick, but if you do you aren’t fixing the problem. The problem is that you hide behind this veil called the shield and say the game has integrity but it doesn’t. Referee the whole game, not just what’s on TV on Sunday. I want to know that the team I root for is doing it the right way.
In the few days that have passed since we first heard of the incident, the way it’s been handled by the NFL and the press has been awful. They’ve grabbed headlines about something so rediculous which they probably like, but they also succeeded at zapping all the fun out of the Superbowl. No matter what happens as far as a verdict/penalty, Superbowl XLIX will be tainted, whether real or not. The media are dusting off their old stories and rehashing the tuck rule, spygate, and everything else. But it’s all based on some code where rules are often bent and sometimes broken, but we only find out about it when someone (looking at you, Jim Irsay) gets pissed and brings it into the public eye. Make rules, monitor and enforce them, and quit all this gamesmanship garbage.
You mean mysoginistic assholes who aren't nearly as smart as they think they are? There's probably a ton on those in the NFL, dude.SMU_Sox said:
The NFL needs to revise the rule/standards for footballs to read, "Each team must use a football." Seriously, who cares if the ball is 10.5 psi or 16psi? If each QB has free reign to have the ball the way he likes...you have parity. No advantage. Let them change the psi based on weather conditions. Who cares?
Having the league provide shiny new footballs that everyone has to use just encourages tampering...sort of like what apparently happens all the time now. The NFL needs to get out of its own way with some of this stuff.
Having the league provide shiny new footballs that everyone has to use just encourages tampering...sort of like what apparently happens all the time now. The NFL needs to get out of its own way with some of this stuff.
Unless the NFL is certain of their ability to ensure with 100% accuracy that every play in every game from now on is run with a ball that has a PSI between 12.5 and 13.5, they want to keep it from being simply about numbers. Take the angle that the pre-game PSI specified in the rulebook is to prevent excessive doctoring of the ball, and that once the game starts it's at the ref's discretion whether a ball needs to be removed from play and reset to spec. The rule was never intended to indicate that plays run with a ball falling outside the 12.5-13.5 range were somehow invalid. If the investigation ultimately finds that the lower PSI resulted from specific actions that go beyond reasonably acceptable handling practices, then, as was the case with the Vikings, the Patriots will be instructed to cease those practices. But the league does not find the lower PSI found in the Patriots balls in and of itself to be a concern.
Again, though, probably a little late for that stance now.
CHEAThawks used illegal formation in game changing onsides kick:
https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/558290731576881153
Colts-Packers championship: It's the right thing.
https://mobile.twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/558290731576881153
Colts-Packers championship: It's the right thing.
Simmons has been saying that since the restructuring of Brady's contract a few weeks ago. Nothing new. Nor relevant. Nor interesting, for that matter.Hoya81 said:
I'm equally disgusted by all the Pats fans that couldn't wait to fall on their swords and express their disappointment with BB. Just as bad as media that piled on. People are so. F'ing. Stupid.
BB seemed to be putting out the theory (without being explicit) that the Pats' balls are submitted at 12.5 psi, leaving no margin for deflation during normal usage, which must have occurred.
While this is probably not the correct explanation (that 11/12 balls lost 2 psi and the Colts' didn't), it may be hard to disprove, and may be a (just barely) viable defense.
While this is probably not the correct explanation (that 11/12 balls lost 2 psi and the Colts' didn't), it may be hard to disprove, and may be a (just barely) viable defense.
TBs scheduled media availability has been moved up a full day from Fri pm to this afternoon.
The statement of BB concludes with the need to get on fully focused with game prep -- that this week has been devoted to trip logistics so far as players are concerns.
Statement also laments 2 impressive playoff wins tainted with Harbaugh crap and this crap.
Don't tell me this isn't a major fucking distraction. Portions of the statement almost seem like plea to players and assurance to fans that we'll attempt to get over distraction.
Brady better clean ut up as best he can. This sucks
The statement of BB concludes with the need to get on fully focused with game prep -- that this week has been devoted to trip logistics so far as players are concerns.
Statement also laments 2 impressive playoff wins tainted with Harbaugh crap and this crap.
Don't tell me this isn't a major fucking distraction. Portions of the statement almost seem like plea to players and assurance to fans that we'll attempt to get over distraction.
Brady better clean ut up as best he can. This sucks
lambeau said:
There are reports in this thread that the tested balls were 2 PSI below the minimum, 2 PSI below the 13 PSI target, and 1/2 PSI below minimum. Probably of other numbers, too. Until the NFL report comes out, we're speaking ex-chapeau.
It's true is a distraction for the fans, and, to some extent, the team's staff. Fortunately, this is a "bye week".dcmissle said:
I doubt the distraction is affecting how the players practice this week. And Belichick has been there before, and knows the players will have some jitters, and so I'm sure the coaching staff is doing their best to keep the players focused in practice and meetings. It's stupid, but it's mostly a non-issue for the players, IMO.
[sarcasm]
My guess is that the Colts knew about this before the game and so worked to make it look like the Patriots cheated. Here's what they did:
They inflated their balls to 13.5 outside, then brought them to the refs immediately before the test. The refs tested the balls indoors but the balls had been brought inside so recent to the testing that temperature changed hadn't yet impacted the readings.
The Patriots, who had no such pre-game knowledge inflated their balls to 12.5 indoors.
The refs did not re-test the Colts balls right before the game.
The result is that during the game when the balls were tested again after the first half, the Patriots balls appeared to be more deflated than the Colts balls did.
[/sarcasm]
Obviously, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems just as likely to me that this did happen as the idea that someone deflated the Patriots balls during the game without anyone noticing.
My guess is that the Colts knew about this before the game and so worked to make it look like the Patriots cheated. Here's what they did:
They inflated their balls to 13.5 outside, then brought them to the refs immediately before the test. The refs tested the balls indoors but the balls had been brought inside so recent to the testing that temperature changed hadn't yet impacted the readings.
The Patriots, who had no such pre-game knowledge inflated their balls to 12.5 indoors.
The refs did not re-test the Colts balls right before the game.
The result is that during the game when the balls were tested again after the first half, the Patriots balls appeared to be more deflated than the Colts balls did.
[/sarcasm]
Obviously, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems just as likely to me that this did happen as the idea that someone deflated the Patriots balls during the game without anyone noticing.
Punishment suggestion:
Seahawks get to play the Super Bowl with under-inflated balls (or over-inflated by the same percentage). Colts in next year's game, too! (Also, the Jets, just because!) I mean, it's such an advantage that it's pretty much like forfeiting the game, but I think its fair given the severity of the crime.
Seahawks get to play the Super Bowl with under-inflated balls (or over-inflated by the same percentage). Colts in next year's game, too! (Also, the Jets, just because!) I mean, it's such an advantage that it's pretty much like forfeiting the game, but I think its fair given the severity of the crime.
This is being so brilliantly played by Belichick (and Brady). Take yourself out of the equation and allow Tom to do his "Awww Shucks" presser continuing the ridiculousness of this story. Classic Patriots Way.
Someone needs to change dcmissile's avatar to a dark cloud of doom hanging over a Patriots logo or something.
PatriotsSB49 @PatriotsSB49 25s25 seconds ago
"You may hear something today from the NFL in terms of findings." - @AdamSchefter
"You may hear something today from the NFL in terms of findings." - @AdamSchefter
Ralphwiggum said:
He's caused me to not be able to get Third Eye Blind's Jumper out of my head.
SumnerH said:
I read Belichick's comments as a veiled way of saying the balls measured 0.2 PSI under the allowed 12.5 rather than the full 2 PSI that the media has been going with. I could be (and probably am) wrong, but I thought it was interesting he used two tenths in his examples rather than a larger number.