Thanks. Still can't find the original report mentioning Jackson as the catalyst for the onfield inquiry.ScubaSteveAvery said:
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Obscure Name said:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/21/how-the-patriots-could-have-cheated-without-letting-air-out-the-ball/Eocm5m29nIlh0HRBjFWsYO/story.html
It wouldn't be linear, however. You know this intuitively from watching how a hot cup of coffee behaves. A lot of the heating/cooling would would happen up front, but it would take that long to reach equilibrium.
These people are still out there telling millions that the Pats taped a walkthrough, so yeah, they will never be held accountable. On to the next scandal.
At this point it's hard to envision any outcome where the party that comes out of this looking the worst isn't the media. To reasonable people, at least.
is there any doubt at this point that an entire episode of Mythbusters will be dedicated to this?
I went with the "It's funny because Ray Lewis killed a guy" one. I didn't want to be too subtle.twibnotes said:
I really expected that the NFL would say SOMETHING after the Brady conference.
Whatever. The Patriots are the sacrificial lambs for big ratings, I guess. What a crock of shit.
I find it disturbing that NFL buddy ESPN is in full "Roast the Pats" mode, as I have to think that if Goodell wanted it any other way, he'd ask them to cool it.
He's totally going to fuck the Pats. Just watch. 1st rounder and 6 game suspension for BB and a 2 game suspension for Brady or something. I bet he tries to use this as a way to make other teams happy and break the fucking team for a few years.
Whatever. The Patriots are the sacrificial lambs for big ratings, I guess. What a crock of shit.
I find it disturbing that NFL buddy ESPN is in full "Roast the Pats" mode, as I have to think that if Goodell wanted it any other way, he'd ask them to cool it.
He's totally going to fuck the Pats. Just watch. 1st rounder and 6 game suspension for BB and a 2 game suspension for Brady or something. I bet he tries to use this as a way to make other teams happy and break the fucking team for a few years.
If that is what they are using as evidence you're going to have to use pictures and monosyllabic words because they won't have the comprehension for anything else.brandonchristensen said:
Brunell's theory is hilarious in its complete self-contradiction.
A QB gets his ball and approves it exactly the way he wants it. It's sacred! Yet, Brady supposedly approved a ball at a higher PSI than he really wanted and then trusted a ball boy to estimate how much air to let out?
A QB keeps his ball exactly the way he wants it at all times and wouldn't let anyone change it once it's set or...the exact oposite of that. Claiming both at the same time? How?!?
A QB gets his ball and approves it exactly the way he wants it. It's sacred! Yet, Brady supposedly approved a ball at a higher PSI than he really wanted and then trusted a ball boy to estimate how much air to let out?
A QB keeps his ball exactly the way he wants it at all times and wouldn't let anyone change it once it's set or...the exact oposite of that. Claiming both at the same time? How?!?
An amusing, and somewhat logical, perspective from Steve Czaban - radio host on Yahoo Sports and local D.C. radio.
Mark it zero, Belichick
Mark it zero, Belichick
We can't say definitively that B&B are lying or not. Their stories did seem to be perfectly believable but who knows.
What I did find interesting is that they both talked about their footballs being 12.5 PSI - the minimum allowable. And they both talked about weather conditions and implied that that can change things.
If nothing else, they have given the NFL a really easy out for this mess since its pretty likely they have zero evidence.
Everything hinges on what facts are brought to the table. If in fact the Colts footballs were tested and passed that is insufficient data. After the 12.5 story from the Pats, the NFL has to now show real numbers that the drop was extraordinary and out of line with the drop if any of the Colts footballs.
Assuming their legwork was shoddy, which is most likely since they have come out with nothing yet, they probably don't have that data.
My guess is they take the out that has been teed up for them, issue a fine and move on.
But holy crap, if there has ever been an entity more in need of PR help than the NFL...
What I did find interesting is that they both talked about their footballs being 12.5 PSI - the minimum allowable. And they both talked about weather conditions and implied that that can change things.
If nothing else, they have given the NFL a really easy out for this mess since its pretty likely they have zero evidence.
Everything hinges on what facts are brought to the table. If in fact the Colts footballs were tested and passed that is insufficient data. After the 12.5 story from the Pats, the NFL has to now show real numbers that the drop was extraordinary and out of line with the drop if any of the Colts footballs.
Assuming their legwork was shoddy, which is most likely since they have come out with nothing yet, they probably don't have that data.
My guess is they take the out that has been teed up for them, issue a fine and move on.
But holy crap, if there has ever been an entity more in need of PR help than the NFL...
GlenMorangie said:
What about the fact that the Patriots balls were in Foxboro all week while the Colts balls were flown in Friday before the game. Did the Colts balls get more inflated from the plane flight?
I have to admit that I was disappointed that Brady didn't follow up on his not noticing the difference in ball inflation with "You do realize I only grip the ball for *maybe* three seconds at a time? And while I'm doing that, I'm scanning the field for receivers while trying not to get creamed by the opposition's 250-300 pound linemen and backers? I'm really not in a position to analyze the ball's condition in those circumstances."
So when the eventual Bill Simmons column about this hits, I'm putting the over/under at 7.5 pages of responses to that. Maybe 10.
drleather2001 said:
Methane has about the same weight as oxygen, and is heavier than nitrogen. So if there is a lot of methane, then yes, it is possible.
They could deflate the indy balls and smell the air.
I cannot believe that the Patriots would let 2 HOFers (essentially the faces of the franchise for the next 25 years) go in front of the media and blatantly lie. They must know (or not know anything) that there is no smoking gun to be found. Otherwise they risk a Rafael Palmeiro moment. Every time the Pats/cheating/scandals come up they will play snippets of the pressers with the principals lying over and over. That simply can't happen. Better to be ambiguous, dissemble, "can't comment on an ongoing investigation", etc. Total radio silence is better than an outright lie.
The Pats brain trust must be smarter than to allow that type of mistake. Generally, the truth eventually comes out. If NE is ever caught lying in today's pressers, they're fucked for a decade. I can't imagine Kraft would allow this. I agree with others who thought BB nailed the conference today. I also thought TB looked a little shaky.
I'm amazed that the media is calling TB (and to a lesser extent BB) bald-faced liars. I hope we get definitive proof or some explanation that completely exonerates the Pats. I'd love to see Brunnell, Bettis et al eat a bag (or bowl, did we get a final ruling?) of dicks.
The Pats brain trust must be smarter than to allow that type of mistake. Generally, the truth eventually comes out. If NE is ever caught lying in today's pressers, they're fucked for a decade. I can't imagine Kraft would allow this. I agree with others who thought BB nailed the conference today. I also thought TB looked a little shaky.
I'm amazed that the media is calling TB (and to a lesser extent BB) bald-faced liars. I hope we get definitive proof or some explanation that completely exonerates the Pats. I'd love to see Brunnell, Bettis et al eat a bag (or bowl, did we get a final ruling?) of dicks.
This is most salient point from that piece
This is a league that shits on it’s own “rules” whenever the situation is inconvenient, or if they just feel like it.
You know, like those new fancy concussion RULES for players on the sidelines? Russell Wilson took a Cat-5 direct hit from Clay Matthews, and was looked at for “about 2 seconds” according to Fox’s Erin Andrews.
You know, like the time the Redskins and Cowboys followed the written RULES on the so-called “capless year”, and then were HAMMERED by the NFL for violating an un-written and patently illegal “you better not do that” warning from several of the more powerful owners?
You know, like the RULES regarding player retirement not being used as a convenient end-run around escaping a team’s contractual rights?
Brett Favre was trying to slink his way to the Vikings, when the Packers realized, “holy shit, we can’t let that happen! He might hurt us!”
http://www.theczabe.com/the-post/mark-zero-belichick/
This is a league that shits on it’s own “rules” whenever the situation is inconvenient, or if they just feel like it.
You know, like those new fancy concussion RULES for players on the sidelines? Russell Wilson took a Cat-5 direct hit from Clay Matthews, and was looked at for “about 2 seconds” according to Fox’s Erin Andrews.
You know, like the time the Redskins and Cowboys followed the written RULES on the so-called “capless year”, and then were HAMMERED by the NFL for violating an un-written and patently illegal “you better not do that” warning from several of the more powerful owners?
You know, like the RULES regarding player retirement not being used as a convenient end-run around escaping a team’s contractual rights?
Brett Favre was trying to slink his way to the Vikings, when the Packers realized, “holy shit, we can’t let that happen! He might hurt us!”
http://www.theczabe.com/the-post/mark-zero-belichick/
Harry Hooper said:
Whoa! I didn't know the balls were transported by plane. Now you're bringing black holes into the equation. All bets are off.
@NEPD_Loyko: Buzz in Mobile, central figure resposible for stirring up deflategate none other than the man with impeccable character.. Jim Irsay.
There is a fear that has been growing in the back of my mind, and it's something that's been hinted at by several posters:drleather2001 said:
I've felt all along that the 12.5-13.5 psi range is very loosely enforced. Sure, once in a while the refs test the balls and some adjust the pressure pre-game (Aaron Rodgers admitted as much). But it was never a big deal. As noted by several retired QB's (Brunell excepted), there is hardly any difference, if any, in feel, and the refs probably feel they have better things to do during prep time than to bother pressure checking all 24-48 balls. Especially given the fact that the officiating crew for the AFCCG is fairly new to each other, it's not inconceivable that the ref decides to spend more time working on game prep with guys that he's only partially familiar with. Brady tells his equipment guy how he likes them, and they're never measured for compliance by the Pats staff. Why bother? Typically, if they're found to be out of spec, the ref pumps them up (maybe with some grumblings and/or laughter that the Pats and GB's balls are always either under- or over-inflated) and that's it, and noone hears about it. Meanwhile, Luck doesn't care one way or another, so the Colts equipment guy checks them diligently.
Finally, someone on the Colts decided to raise a stink, and when the balls were tested they came in light. Either the refs knew they were light when they approved them pre-game, or they just didn't bother to test (I know some media reports claim otherwise, but who knows how reliable those are). Goodell is obviously embarrassed that this "inspection loophole" was exposed, feels taken advantage of, and is telling his guys to do everything they can do to find the "smoking gun". Naturally, Goodell, who probably does hate Belichick, focuses on the coach, and tells his guys to skip Brady altogether. He also tells the Mort's sources to say the balls were at spec prior to the game. Just as naturally, there's zero evidence that anything untoward was done to the balls, so Goodell is now truly stuck.
Goodell knows that if he attempts to suspend Brady that the NFLPA will most assuredly step in (Brady was part of the NFLPA's lawsuit), and will certainly win on appeal ("he never interviewed me to get my side of the story" would be a powerful weapon to use at the hearing). So the reason the NFL is silent is that Goodell is still desperately trying to find that smoking gun that will allow him to nail Belichick. Chances are he won't get one anytime soon, so he can either:
a.) Admit defeat and levy a token fine for essentially poor quality control on the balls.
b.) Attempt to suspend Belichick anyway despite the lack of any solid evidence, a move that could actually backfire on him longer term.
c.) Defer any decision until the offseason, and then come up with some manufactured method of nailing BB for at least part of the 2015 season (along with forcing the team to fork over some draft picks). This gives the league time to come up with all the various legal and PR arguments as to why such action is necessary to protect the "integrity of the game" and other nonsense.
None of this is rational, but it's clear that rational left the building long ago. I'm hoping I'm wrong (which I could very well be on a number of fronts). Just something that seems to jive with Schefter's reports, Theo's sources claiming that there was talk of a suspension at one point, since toned down to just fines, and the obviously excessive delay in any word from the NFL.
People do stupid things all the time. If you're banking on a "they're too smart to lie" theory these days, you're better off playing the slots. I am not saying they are lying. I am not saying any of this matters. But I am saying is predicting what the league might or might not do, oe might or might not know, based on a "they wouldn't have said X if" theory is wishful thinking.fiskful of dollars said:
They did a helium in footballs episode before so sure, why the hell not. Bring it on science!vadertime said:
lexrageorge said:
At this point - barring any new evidence of wrongdoing - I might appeal even a token fine. Quality control? That's on the refs. Show me the signed log book with recorded PSIs and/or a witness to the measurement. Of course, it might be worthwhile just to accept the fine and move on, but it's kind of bullshit that the NFL let it get to this point.
No idea who that guy is but that was great. Thanks for the link.ernieshore said:
So, when does the media park outside Goodell's house for an answer? Time to show your hand Roger.
RedOctober3829 said:
I'm sort of getting to the point where I think there's very little to see here:
1. The NFL has not even contacted TB.
2. There's been no statement of ANY kind from the NFL other than they're looking into it.
3. Irsay, a crazy dude, is behind the allegation.
4. Mort has fucked up big time in some of his earlier reports this year.
5. BB and TB did not equivocate at all. AT ALL.
6. Spygate was fully investigated and punishment doled out within four days. Why would this take so much longer? If it's the Rice thing, all the more reason for the NFL to have put out some statements (transparency, right?) by now other than a very general, very generic line.
11 balls may have been underinflated (I bet the total number under ends up being different from Mort's report), but I'm starting to think maybe one or two were around 11psi while the others were much closer to 12.5.
lexrageorge said:
I think the point that this narrative misses is that Goodell answers to the owners and owes a massive chit to Robert Kraft, who went on national TV and defended him to the country on the Ray Rice thing and, by many accounts, also lobbied hard for Goodell behind the scenes.
I don't really believe that Roger Goodell wants to fuck the Patriots. The NFL's response to this issue (or lack thererof) is much more likely to revolve around his fundamental incompetence and inability to handle these types of situations than anything else.