#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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maritimer

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
Counterpoint: maybe he takes a piss on his way out the tunnel for a 3 hour game every week.
 

3rd Degree

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
If the kid takes a piss before standing around for a few hours it's suspicious? Do you take a piss before every long car ride you take? WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?
 

jercra

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In case you didn't know, going from a warm environment to a cold environment makes you have to pee.  I'll wait for BB and the "science people" to explain fully how that leads to a 90 second piss.
 
Also, 91 seconds for me with this caveat.  It took a while for the water to warm up in my bathroom since no one had used it in a while .  I think we're going to need a digest of everyone who went in that bathroom for a few hours before the ball attendant to really know the expected wait time for warm hand washing water.
 

simplyeric

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Harry Hooper said:
Thanks!

#inflatethis that?

Love his statement. Love this team. I kinda hope brady is taking this personally, just enough to fire him up but not enough to stress him out.

He needs an early-game sneak or 1st down run or something to get him amped up!
 

Kull

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
 
It's security cam footage of a common area hallway. Not the kind of stuff that would likely be archived. I'd be surprised if they retain even a weeks worth.
 
Edit: Also. You are the nefarious New England Patriots who leave no stone unturned in search of game advantages. You have a system whereby the ball attendant takes the game balls into a bathroom before every game, where he illegally manipulates the air pressure. You film this with your own cameras. Hmm?
 

OCST

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Kull said:
 
This has been a pretty amazing story with a host of twists and turns, and the biggest element to the story is how agenda driven individuals in the League offices built up a shit storm based entirely on partial leaks. And in that story, King and company will play the part of the half-witted doofuses who failed to detect they were being played. Maybe they don't care. But the longer they keep playing their current role as mindless leak providers, the worse they will look as the real story unfolds before their eyes.
 
And THAT is what I'm wondering. At what point - if ever - do they switch sides?
When Goodell hits Peter King with a folding chair
 

RememberTheGronkans

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
 
maritimer said:
Counterpoint: maybe he takes a piss on his way out the tunnel for a 3 hour game every week.
There is a rather novel technique for analyzing information. Occam's Razor. That which requires the least assumption is that which is correct. 

Which line of thought requires less assumption:
A. The dude took a piss
B. The dude very quickly and expertly let air out of eleven footballs in the span of 90 seconds and is responsible for the found deflated footballs, ignoring that science shows that the temperature difference is likely the cause
 

BimblemansLight

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Agree it's possible, just looks bad, it would be a little weird to always taking a giant bag of footballs into the john with you right after getting them, though not proof of anything...More value would be gained from the ravens game tape showing him NOT going in there
 

Section15Box113

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Field Yates, toward the bottom of his How the Patriots were Built insider piece:
 
 
More thoughts on Deflategate: I mentioned this via Twitter, but there are a couple of questions that remain for me regarding football deflation. When the NFL established the psi parameters (12.5 to 13.5), if there was an understanding of potential atmospheric impact on a ball's psi level, how -- if at all -- was this accounted for? If atmospheric impact was considered, isn't there inherently a window for footballs to become overinflated or underinflated based on weather conditions of a specific game? (For example, in cold-weather games, the footballs will drop in pressure, in warm-weather games, they will increase in pressure.)
The question I've often heard as a retort to this is: Why didn't the Colts' footballs fall below the allowable psi limit when rechecked at halftime? My response: Is it inconceivable that the Colts' footballs started closer to the maximum allowable limit and deflated down closer to the minimum limit at halftime? There's some food for thought.
 
Finally, someone coming out to say - in print - that the Colts' balls may have started at the high end of the range. 
 
 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
 
And if he does it even faster, he still has time to wash his hands because, I mean bathroom door handles are laden with other peoples nasty business.  Gross.  Anyhow, I am going with this theory.  The ball attendant, in the bathroom, with a needle (and no, that isn't referring to what his ex girlfriends say)!
 

Sox and Rocks

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
Your theory doesn't account for him separating the balls that have already been poked from the ones that haven't. Plus 2 seconds per ball isn't long enough.

Not to mention he has to remove and re-hide the needle and perform the mandatory cover up flush
 

Punchado

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
Yes but if you don't think you're being watched and know no one cares if you're in there doing it for five minutes (because in the history of football no one has ever given two fucks about you or your job or the precise psi of a ball) why rush it? Yes I suppose you could but why act like you're trying to hide something that up until this point no one has really given you cause to be particularly secret about? If the super bowl was on ABC I would be starting to think that this whole thing is some kind of elaborate punking by jimmy kimmel. Remember that after school movie about the teacher who does an experiment and turns half the class into nazis? This is kind of like that except it's turning half the country into fucking idiots.
 

Jnai

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My 80+ yo grandmother told me today that she always liked Tom Brady, and that the media are trying to destroy him, just like they're trying to destroy her favorite comedian.
 
Bill Cosby.
 

Jettisoned

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Hoya81 said:
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/

PK kicking up a lot of dust, trying to blame everyone except the league.
 
 


On Monday, after Glazer’s provocative news (but before Pro Football Talk’s report), the league—effectively through gritted teeth, clearly not pleased that the story it wishes would go away continued to have legs in the league’s marquee week—shut up tight.
 
Just after leaking information to the press (and just before leaking more information to the press), the league stopped leaking any information to the press.
 

Kull

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Hoya81 said:
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/

PK kicking up a lot of dust, trying to blame everyone except the league.
 
At bottom he does quote his own expert who describes how the Colts footballs could easily defalte but remain in spec, although there's some weasel wording implying that Colts balls inflated to 13.5 would probably still fail, "but maybe too close to notice".
 
So yes, a few brickbats toward the "secretive" Patriots, but finally a nod toward the science aspect as a scenario that covers both the Pats balls failing and the Colts balls passing.
 
Edit: And something i don't recall hearing before. King's expert suggests that wet balls will expand, and that alone would result in a .7 PSI decrease.
 

Harry Hooper

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Jettisoned said:
 
 
 
 
 
Just after leaking information to the press (and just before leaking more information to the press), the league stopped leaking any information to the press.
 
 
They would have kept on leaking if not for the blizzard.
 

BimblemansLight

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I don't think at all that he did it. But just saying he could, and it wouldn't really be a stretch. Not even rushing: methodical and efficient, 90 seconds easy. Doesn't need to differentiate balls, just dump them out, one by one grab one and find hole, stick with the pin, hold for 2 seconds then drop in bag. Gotta say it's really fucking annoying that he didn't just take his piss on the way there instead. He didn't do it. No fuckng way brady and Belichick stake their rep on a ball boy keeping quiet. If he DID do it, I'd say as weird as this has gone down, and with in light of the cryptic BB messages In his 2nd PC , it'd be more likely he got paid to do it by irsay's crony slugworth than at Brady's request.
 

Section15Box113

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Hoya81 said:
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/

PK kicking up a lot of dust, trying to blame everyone except the league.
But it does include the words "absolute pressure" and discusses how the Colts' balls may have been at the high end of the range...

Thank you, Tom Bannister of the Scripps Research Institute for leading the horse to water and maybe - just maybe - getting him to take the smallest of sips.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jettisoned said:
 
 
 
 
 
Just after leaking information to the press (and just before leaking more information to the press), the league stopped leaking any information to the press.
They probably had to take a piss, anyone time them?
 

GeorgeCostanza

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What a bunch of mind numbing bullshit speculation. He's such a piece of shit asshole fuckwad.

ChickenMcNasty really giving it to him in the comment section

Why have you not considered that the reason the patriots are giving the media and nfl the middle finger is because they are the ones who know FOR SURE what happened? And they actually did nothing wrong. And you crap reporters just torpedo'd one of the most incredible super bowl match ups ever because you suck at your jobs so bad you can't find reports and quotes that painted this whole picture last weds.

Way to mail it in on your reporting.
 

Bone Chips

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Also from the PK article:

To recap: All the footballs set to be used in the first half of the AFC Championship Game nine days ago were tested for pressure before the game.
 

scottyno

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Kull said:
 
At bottom he does quote his own expert who describes how the Colts footballs could easily defalte but remain in spec, although there's some weasel wording implying that Colts balls inflated to 13.5 would probably still fail, "but maybe too close to notice".
 
So yes, a few brickbats toward the "secretive" Patriots, but finally a nod toward the science aspect as a scenario that covers both the Pats balls failing and the Colts balls passing.
 
Edit: And something i don't recall hearing before. King's expert suggests that wet balls will expand, and that alone would result in a .7 PSI decrease.
.7 is consistent what what the carnegie mellon study found after soaking the balls
 

Kull

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Jettisoned said:
 
Just after leaking information to the press (and just before leaking more information to the press), the league stopped leaking any information to the press.
 
That's interesting. Maybe what King means is that his source can't talk to him anymore. Be interesting to know why. Threat of polygraphs with the next leak? Maybe Kraft threatening to take some sort of action (perhaps leaks of own)?
 
If nothing else, it will be interesting to see if the slow drip, drip, drip of bogus information finally comes to an end.
 

NWsoxophile

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BimblemansLight said:
Agree it's possible, just looks bad, it would be a little weird to always taking a giant bag of footballs into the john with you right after getting them, though not proof of anything...More value would be gained from the ravens game tape showing him NOT going in there
Why does it look bad? Why is it weird? How would taking them in or not taking them in be indicative of anything? it takes effort to see premeditation in everything.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sure, might as well bring Sammy Baugh into the story:
 
So, by his own admission, Sammy Baugh, one of the greatest passers in pro football history, played with an illegal ball whenever the Redskins were home, a ball he “liked the feel of” better and presumably made him more effective. I’m guessing this more than made up for his annual trips to Pittsburgh, where he’d have to throw that dang Goldsmith ball.
 
 
http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/
 

E5 Yaz

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NWsoxophile said:
Why does it look bad? Why is it weird? How would taking them in or not taking them in be indicative of anything? it takes effort to see premeditation in everything.
 
We're taking about taking 12 balls out of a bag, reducing their pressure and putting them back in the bag ... in 90 seconds
 
Talk about performance anxiety
 

Jettisoned

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Bone Chips said:
Also from the PK article:

To recap: All the footballs set to be used in the first half of the AFC Championship Game nine days ago were tested for pressure before the game.
 
To recap: until they specify that the test was with a gauge, this doesn't mean much.
 

Kull

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Jettisoned said:
 
To recap: until they specify that the test was with a gauge, this doesn't mean much.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were gauge tested. I also wouldn't be surprised that if asked to specify the pressures they saw, the refs couldn't remember. It's never been an issue before, so I can see where they could be talking about wives and girlfriends and just mechanically checking balls like they'd done 100 times before without really thinking about it. Pass? Fail? That's all they'd notice.
 

E5 Yaz

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The Most Important Thing We Learned Today:
 
Bob Kraft went all in on Belichick and Brady. If one (or both) of them lied to him ... it's not going to be pretty
 

cannonball 1729

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singaporesoxfan said:
To be honest, it was meant as a Ulysses reference ("first Stephen, then Bloom, in penumbra urinated, their sides contiguous, their organs of micturition reciprocally rendered invisible by manual circumposition"), though now I realize I totally should have ripped off Lebowski.
 
Yeah - it would have really tied the thread together.
 

BimblemansLight

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It wouldn't look good Because if you're accused of something, and then after that it's found the person who would be the one to do the deed happens to always go to the one place in the stadium , every time , where he could do it with no witnesses, that doesn't look good. Doesn't prove shit, but I don't want this ending with "have suspicions but nothing could be proven " I want a full exoneration. I want to be able to stick it to every last one of these weasels and watch them stammer. I don't want to deal with years of " they got off but everyone knows they did it" bullshit. And a ball boy with a habit of always taking his ballsack to the shitter would not be a good look.
 

djbayko

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Marciano490 said:
Can't believe it took this long to get to a Lebowski joke.
 
The thread title was "Ballghazi: #inflatethis -- Mark It Zero" four days ago, maybe more.  If you mean post-piss media leak, then yeah, it was inevitable.
 

E5 Yaz

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It wouldn't look good Because
if you're accused of something, and then
after that it's found
the person who would be the one to do the deed
happens to always go to the
one place
in the stadium , every time , where he
could do it with no witnesses,
that
doesn't look good. Doesn't prove shit,
but I don't want this ending
with "have suspicions but nothing
could be proven "
I want
a full exoneration.
I want
to be able to stick it to every last one
of these weasels and
watch them stammer.
I don't want
to deal with years of
" they got off but
everyone
knows they did it"
bullshit.
And a ball boy with
a habit of always
taking his ballsack
to the shitter would not
be a good look.
 
Burma Shave
 

NWsoxophile

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BimblemansLight said:
It wouldn't look good Because if you're accused of something, and then after that it's found the person who would be the one to do the deed happens to always go to the one place in the stadium , every time , where he could do it with no witnesses, that doesn't look good. Doesn't prove shit, but I don't want this ending with "have suspicions but nothing could be proven " I want a full exoneration. I want to be able to stick it to every last one of these weasels and watch them stammer. I don't want to deal with years of " they got off but everyone knows they did it" bullshit. And a ball boy with a habit of always taking his ballsack to the shitter would not be a good look.
There is literally nothing that Goodell or Wells can say that will exonerate the Pats in the minds of people who have already convicted them. Deflategate is already just as much of an established fact to them as Spygate.
 

BimblemansLight

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I can deal with the BELICHEATers. With a few exceptions, the mainstream media, financial magazines, and online travel guides generally didn't put on that hat. It would be nice if after the dust settles that's the case again
 

XNOUGHT

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This may be late, but Dawkins has the balls to call out Belichick for spying?
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010809/aponline094717_000.htm
 
 
Two former Philadelphia Eagles cheerleaders filed a federal lawsuit claiming players from visiting teams repeatedly spied on the cheerleaders as they changed clothes.
The plaintiffs contend that the "ability to peer into the cheerleaders' locker room, and to view them in (various) states of undress, was considered one of the special 'perks' of being a visiting team of the Eagles."
"It was common knowledge among virtually the entire National Football League – while at the same time a carefully guarded secret to be known only to the players and other team employees of the (visiting) teams – that these conditions existed," the suit stated.
 
Looks like Belichick wasn't the only one alleged to be spying on team practices.
 

speedracer

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Kull said:
 
At bottom he does quote his own expert who describes how the Colts footballs could easily defalte but remain in spec, although there's some weasel wording implying that Colts balls inflated to 13.5 would probably still fail, "but maybe too close to notice".
 
So yes, a few brickbats toward the "secretive" Patriots, but finally a nod toward the science aspect as a scenario that covers both the Pats balls failing and the Colts balls passing.
 
Edit: And something i don't recall hearing before. King's expert suggests that wet balls will expand, and that alone would result in a .7 PSI decrease.
The HeadSmart video brought up the expanding leather bit.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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TomTerrific said:
Off topic slightly, but tonight I just happened to listen to the CBS Football Podcast recorded last Friday, or in other words, right after the Belichick and Brady PCs. Will Brinson and Ryan Wilson were completely and utterly reasonable about the whole mishegas. They've gone up several notches in my book.
They have put together one of the most enjoyable football podcasts out there. Overall they were fairly on the pro-Patriots side all season and this time was no exception.
 

Steve Dillard

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BimblemansLight said:
90 seconds is definitely enough time to : dump out the balls- 5 seconds. grab a ball, stick it for 2 seconds, put in bag- 7 seconds. X 12. Total= 90 seconds. I don't think it's worth arguing that couldn't be done, or would even be that hard to do, in 90 seconds. Surely though they have tapes from other games? I mean if the kid does this every time, that's pretty suspicious , but if he didn't for the ravens game it would be a pretty good indication it was a one time coincidence
Not sure the "could he do it in 90 seconds" is the right question. The right question is: if you have 5 minutes to do something, why would you try to do it in 90 seconds?

This is so frustrating listening to the complete lack of logic on the part of the media. They are taking the spoon fed 90 second story as the likely explanation, when you have ball boys Eric Kester:
"I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls,"
and an NFL ref admitting that while they should gauge the balls, it doesn't always happen:

Q: Any chance Walt Anderson didn’t stick a pressure gauge in each of the 24 or 36 footballs? Maybe he just did the squeeze test?

JD: “They have a gauge and they have to check every football. It’s usually given to the youngest or newest member of the crew — it’s almost like a rite of passage into the NFL. During the playoffs, it’s usually an alternate official, so it’s a veteran official that does it. I would not even question whether they did or not. It’s just something you do, like putting your pants on or getting ready for the game.”

Q: The confusion is that we’ve heard stories this week from equipment managers that they would over- or under-inflate footballs and hope to sneak them through inspection.

JD: “I can’t deny that that happens. Somebody may be lazy. I can tell you it’s not the norm. I know there are some guys that probably don’t do it quite as diligently as others, but they’re required to check the air. I don’t even question whether Walt and his crew did that.”
 

nighthob

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OnWisc said:
The idea that they play with footballs that were in the bathroom is disgusting. This is like that episode of Seinfeld.
I thought you were supposed to wash your hands after handling your balls?