brandonchristensen said:
The best possible result would be if the text messages on Brady's phone were like those in the "NFL QBs on Facebook" parody account.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
The best possible result would be if the text messages on Brady's phone were like those in the "NFL QBs on Facebook" parody account.
The cell is a third-tier issue if things unfold this way and lead to Goodell's worst nightmare.Otis Foster said:
If Goodell lets Vincent make the decision and appoints himself as the reviewer, there will be a lawsuit, in Boston.
That will open up the whole can of worms of Harbaugh > Grigson > Kensil, which I am reasonably confident a neutral appointed by Goodell would not get into very much. The reason is that TB's point will be that this was a sham process, a railroad job from the beginning.
If a court orders discovery on this, as you know, there is effectively no way to stop it because these are interlocutory decisions on which the trial judge has tons of discretion and are rarely reviewable.
Otis Foster said:
Home videos with his wife he didn't want leaked like the Fappening, and any number of personal items that he didn't want these morons with an agenda to have.
Another tidbit from MMQB today:
“For the balls to have been deflated—that doesn’t happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen. I can assure you of that. Now the question becomes, Well, did Bill Belichick know about it? This whole comment by Roger Goodell based on the Saints when Sean Payton got suspended for the year, and he said, ‘Hey, ignorance is no excuse.’ That’s gonna come back and haunt [Goodell] again. It haunted him during the whole Ray Rice situation. And now it’s going to haunt Roger Goodell in terms of what the punishment is for the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick. If ignorance is no excuse, and it wasn’t for Sean Payton, and I think it’s going to be severe. Now twice under Bill Belichick—and possibly a third time—they’ve cheated and given themselves an advantage. And to me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints.”
—Troy Aikman, on radio station KTCK The Ticket in Dallas, on what he thinks the sanction in the Patriots’ case should be.
Whoa. As part of the Saints’ 2012 bountygate penalties, Payton was suspended for a year. So Bill Belichick, absolved of involvement in the case by the Ted Wells Report, should be suspended for longer than a full season if the NFL rules that some members of the Patriots’ staff let some air out of footballs? Presumably, that would mean Brady, the alleged mastermind, should be suspended for longer than a year.
I think in the old wild west, Aikman would have been called the hangin’ judge.
Or he would have been called the village idiot. Good god Troy. I didn't think anyone could be any dumber than Shannon Sharpe on this issue, but man oh man.
“For the balls to have been deflated—that doesn’t happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen. I can assure you of that. Now the question becomes, Well, did Bill Belichick know about it? This whole comment by Roger Goodell based on the Saints when Sean Payton got suspended for the year, and he said, ‘Hey, ignorance is no excuse.’ That’s gonna come back and haunt [Goodell] again. It haunted him during the whole Ray Rice situation. And now it’s going to haunt Roger Goodell in terms of what the punishment is for the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick. If ignorance is no excuse, and it wasn’t for Sean Payton, and I think it’s going to be severe. Now twice under Bill Belichick—and possibly a third time—they’ve cheated and given themselves an advantage. And to me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints.”
—Troy Aikman, on radio station KTCK The Ticket in Dallas, on what he thinks the sanction in the Patriots’ case should be.
Whoa. As part of the Saints’ 2012 bountygate penalties, Payton was suspended for a year. So Bill Belichick, absolved of involvement in the case by the Ted Wells Report, should be suspended for longer than a full season if the NFL rules that some members of the Patriots’ staff let some air out of footballs? Presumably, that would mean Brady, the alleged mastermind, should be suspended for longer than a year.
I think in the old wild west, Aikman would have been called the hangin’ judge.
Or he would have been called the village idiot. Good god Troy. I didn't think anyone could be any dumber than Shannon Sharpe on this issue, but man oh man.
twothousandone said:
They are pretty good at winning these types of battles against the NFL. At the negotiating table they aren't that good.
There is no lawsuit to launch until a neutral or hearing officer appointed by the commissioner rules on a potential appeal. The basis for a petition to vacate would depend entirely on that ruling. If there's a true neutral it's much less likely that there will be a petition to vacate. Arbitrators get reversed far less frequently than federal district court judges. An experienced neutral is unlikely to screw up that badly.
I think all this lawsuit by Brady talk is getting a little out of hand. More likely, the punishment is 1-4 games, and he just takes it as to not propel this thing any further down the ridiculous hole we are already down. And because he most likely is complicit in this thing anyway.
swingin val said:
You think he is going to accept a suspension? He is going to to battle with the NFLPA against the NFL. Mark my words he will not just accept a suspension.
tims4wins said:
You would think so, and probably more for the sake of his life after football than in regard to playing for the Pats next season.
The chances of Brady and the NFLPA appealing a suspension is 100%.
The only way this would lead to a lawsuit is if Goodell is foolish enough to appoint one of his lackeys as the arbitrator. While theoretically possible, I cannot imagine even Goodell doing something that stupid.
The only way this would lead to a lawsuit is if Goodell is foolish enough to appoint one of his lackeys as the arbitrator. While theoretically possible, I cannot imagine even Goodell doing something that stupid.
ivanvamp said:
It's not about the truth, or their actual feelings, at this point it's pure hyperbole and attention whores getting their clicks. In order to get noticed in the national media at this point you must make a stand on a FAR FAR edge of the extreme and the lowest common denominator's are loving today(Aikman included). Many of these people aren't known for their intelligence and want to be part of the process to regain some of their "importance" so here we go the next 48 hours will be a circus...
I've been discussing with Brother of TS whether at some level Tom should accept a suspension so he can move on and get past his nonsense.
I would probably accept a game if I were in his shoes even though it would be entirely unjust in my opinion. Sometimes your interests are better served by taking some unfair medicine and channeling your energies on more productive things (much less doing something that would possibly defuse the attention).
If I did accept a one game suspension, it would be on condition that I could issue any statement along with it, and that statement would be a clear denial and statement that I was settling only to put this behind me.
A poll on this point has been added.
I would probably accept a game if I were in his shoes even though it would be entirely unjust in my opinion. Sometimes your interests are better served by taking some unfair medicine and channeling your energies on more productive things (much less doing something that would possibly defuse the attention).
If I did accept a one game suspension, it would be on condition that I could issue any statement along with it, and that statement would be a clear denial and statement that I was settling only to put this behind me.
A poll on this point has been added.
I think a statement like the one suggested by TS would sound like a weasel words admission of guilt.
jsinger121 said:
One of my biggest questions through this entire process has been how the current players actually feel behind closed doors. I know there will be a crowd that says "they are cheaters and screw Tom", but the precedence being set in this case is extraordinarily damaging to the NFLPA and it's position long-term. My gut is the next negotiations will cause a major lock-out, and the owners are going to have to give up a ton to keep the players on the field. At some point no matter how big the brand, these constant issues with internal policing and incompetence will cause people to no longer tune in. The NFLPA will hold almost all the cards in the next round, and with any luck we will see a major change in the bargaining process, a lock out could cause fans to leave given all the issues of the past 3 seasons.
How can the NFL be this incompetent? EVERY fan forum I visit from Every team talks about the absolute idiocy at the top of the NFL, no other commissioner is this widely despised, hopefully in 10 years we can look back at this event as the thing that pushed the fans and players past the tipping point and saved football.
Tom's legacy is likely trashed by this and you know damn well the other players are watching the process one of the pillars of the NFL is going through over something that "less probably than not" could be a manufactured event caused by jealously, anger, and a demand for revenge. It's insane, absolutely insane and reading the Wells report front to back has done nothing but push me farther from the NFL and it's "due process".
/Edited for lack of clarity
That could be true, MWOB, but the intention for it to be very strong, very affirmative and very clear that while ANY punishment is unwarranted, Tom would be agreeing to that in the interests of moving forward and not letting this be a continued distraction and the like. I think it would be possible to craft something that would not be perceived as admission of guilt of any sort.
Depends how much he cares about his post-NFL reputation. He will be branded a cheater if he accepts any kind of suspension without an appeal.
I guess. It would worry me no matter how strongly worded - but then I say that as someone who's all in favor of guns-ablazin'.
dcmissle said:
Agreed. While the cell is logically a 3rd tier issue, right now TB has allowed it to take on more significance. Bad idea, IMO. Either offer the compromise, disclose the excessive scope of the Wells demand or go to the mattresses.
If I read you correctly, you're suggesting that a full force attack on the process as a whole as a sham offers another basis for resisting discovery at present: That the legitimacy of the process has to be adjudicated as a threshold matter before Goodell can get access to the phone. Interesting argument, but is it circular - that is, that you can' determine the legitimacy of the process without access to all of the records.
I'm inclined to think the latter, but actually have to get some work done today. Carry on.
Is this guy really going to be ousted? He has made a fortune for the owners. He has handed off discipline to underlings.mulluysavage said:
The whole sordid episode is all about the Pats stomping on teams for years in the salary cap era and the shitty GMs, coaches, and owners of other teams cannot understand how they do it, ergo, they are cheating. MN heated footballs last year and we haven't heard a peep about it. I will enjoy the ruthlessness the Pats will play with next year.
Something like this?
"TB statement:
"Every quarterback in the league has some quirks when it comes to ball preparation, including me. It's no secret that I want the ball inflated to the 12.5 minimum. Why else would I have pulled the rule? I put a lot of pressure on the ball guys to give me that - I was thoroughly pissed when I found out I was using a 16+ ball in the Jets game, and they knew it.
However, I'm not going to hang them out to dry. I never ever told them to let air out of the ball, but in retrospect I can see how they might have thought they were doing me a favor. Well, they weren't, but it's not fair they take the heat. If there was mishandling of the ball, penalize me, not them. They were just trying to do their job, even if you think that they got off on the grass while doing it.
And while you're at it, get rid of that stupid rule."
Wonder if that would quiet things down, or if the jury is already out.
"
"TB statement:
"Every quarterback in the league has some quirks when it comes to ball preparation, including me. It's no secret that I want the ball inflated to the 12.5 minimum. Why else would I have pulled the rule? I put a lot of pressure on the ball guys to give me that - I was thoroughly pissed when I found out I was using a 16+ ball in the Jets game, and they knew it.
However, I'm not going to hang them out to dry. I never ever told them to let air out of the ball, but in retrospect I can see how they might have thought they were doing me a favor. Well, they weren't, but it's not fair they take the heat. If there was mishandling of the ball, penalize me, not them. They were just trying to do their job, even if you think that they got off on the grass while doing it.
And while you're at it, get rid of that stupid rule."
Wonder if that would quiet things down, or if the jury is already out.
"
Is this really the best we can say about Goodell?
I could have made a fortune for the owners.
My 2 7yos acting as co commissioners could have made a fortune for the owners.
I get that its true.....but when your in charge of the NFL....its a pretty low bar.
This is the most insane thing I have ever watched unfold. It's unbelievable no one in the NFL has caught on to the fact they are doing more harm than good here.
This has completely tarnished what could have been a great team story. The Patriots and this Super Bowl could have been talked about with the great dynasties of all time. A good thing for the NFL. Now, all that will be talked about is a 1 psi difference - or less. Repeat that 1 psi.
The game itself has already become lost in this mess. It was immediately ranked up there with one of the best SB games ever. Now, we won't talk about the two comebacks and the interception. It's all about a 1 psi difference in the game before that was a major blowout. So, the NFL is tarnishing the history of it's biggest game.
The personal stories and the people's legacies are being ruined. Imagine all that will be talked about at Brady and Belichick's HOF speeches - is that what the NFL wants? All over a 1 psi difference that really didn't matter?
The money spent on this fiasco from personnel to legal fees to eventual labor disputes and appeals will be sickening. Absolutely sickening. Given the fight is over a 1 psi difference in a blowout game.
They should have said this from the start: "The 1 psi difference had no effect on the Colts/Pats game. The Colts did allege the Patriots balls were underinflated. We made sure that was not the case after halftime. Even if the balls were under inflated it was by 1 psi and had no effect on the game. Ultimately, the NFL's procedures weren't up to snuff. Given the history of problems we have had with this issue from the Vikings to the Panthers and now this , we are going to take a more proactive approach to ensuring the NFL oversees the game balls in the future." How easy would that have been?!
Then pay one person at each game whose only job is to check the game balls and keep them safe. Teams can request any inflation within the rules. I bet the amount of money spent on this bologna could have paid for a year or two of that person to work in each stadium.
The NFL is absolutely digging it's own grave on this one. At this point the damage has been done. I hope they suspend Brady. I already have the feeling his texts will prove he knew something. But, hopefully the ensuing appeal will reveal that Gooddell, the Colts, and NFL were equally bad actors in this.
This has completely tarnished what could have been a great team story. The Patriots and this Super Bowl could have been talked about with the great dynasties of all time. A good thing for the NFL. Now, all that will be talked about is a 1 psi difference - or less. Repeat that 1 psi.
The game itself has already become lost in this mess. It was immediately ranked up there with one of the best SB games ever. Now, we won't talk about the two comebacks and the interception. It's all about a 1 psi difference in the game before that was a major blowout. So, the NFL is tarnishing the history of it's biggest game.
The personal stories and the people's legacies are being ruined. Imagine all that will be talked about at Brady and Belichick's HOF speeches - is that what the NFL wants? All over a 1 psi difference that really didn't matter?
The money spent on this fiasco from personnel to legal fees to eventual labor disputes and appeals will be sickening. Absolutely sickening. Given the fight is over a 1 psi difference in a blowout game.
They should have said this from the start: "The 1 psi difference had no effect on the Colts/Pats game. The Colts did allege the Patriots balls were underinflated. We made sure that was not the case after halftime. Even if the balls were under inflated it was by 1 psi and had no effect on the game. Ultimately, the NFL's procedures weren't up to snuff. Given the history of problems we have had with this issue from the Vikings to the Panthers and now this , we are going to take a more proactive approach to ensuring the NFL oversees the game balls in the future." How easy would that have been?!
Then pay one person at each game whose only job is to check the game balls and keep them safe. Teams can request any inflation within the rules. I bet the amount of money spent on this bologna could have paid for a year or two of that person to work in each stadium.
The NFL is absolutely digging it's own grave on this one. At this point the damage has been done. I hope they suspend Brady. I already have the feeling his texts will prove he knew something. But, hopefully the ensuing appeal will reveal that Gooddell, the Colts, and NFL were equally bad actors in this.
mulluysavage said:
There might be another Lombardi in Foxboro now if the 1st rounder hadn't been taken by Glampers for Spygate. Seems likely another pick may be be going bye-bye to slake the bloodlust.
I'm sorry - I just don't buy the "NFL is doing so much harm argument". They are absolutely doing harm to Brady but it's spring time, baseball season has started, the NBA and NHL are in the middle of their playoffs, but the NFL is still dominating headlines. And we're not talking about domestic abuse or concussions... we're talking about some stupid, manufactured scandal. Are sponsors going to pull out because of this? No. People are still going to watch the games and people are still going to go to the games. If anything, it makes the Patriots and Brady an even bigger villain which is great for regular season story lines/ratings.
Let me be clear - I don't think the NFL is intentionally doing this to drive ratings, I just don't think they're concerned in the least big and are probably happy with what this has turned into.
Let me be clear - I don't think the NFL is intentionally doing this to drive ratings, I just don't think they're concerned in the least big and are probably happy with what this has turned into.
Hoya81 said:
Or it could really embarrass the NFL if they hold the banner ceremony, and have a special presentation made to Brady, the SB MVP. The place will go CRAZY for him. Really stick it to the NFL that they are mucking up the reputation of the G.O.A.T. as he's reveling in his latest championship.
I think this is generally what people are referring to when they point to Goodell's incompetence. Being a fierce cop is no substitute for deftly mediating between parties and building a brand.BrunanskysSlide said:
So the angry boy in me wants Brady to do everything short of committing a felony to exact retribution upon Goodell. And I mean burn everything to the ground, the Wells report, the NFL, Goodell's home, his dog, his reputation, etc.
But that won't do anything to change the public perception. Win in court and make it clear that at most he did was put pressure on the ball boys to make sure it was at 12.5 psi and they took it too far, which is what it seems like happened to me.
But that won't do anything to change the public perception. Win in court and make it clear that at most he did was put pressure on the ball boys to make sure it was at 12.5 psi and they took it too far, which is what it seems like happened to me.
I can't help but think that the severity of this situation would have been less if spygate had never happened. Feel like the pat's past reputation for "cheating" had a lot to do with this issue. Any other team gets hit with a fine and it's out of sight, out of mind. But because it's the Pats, people want blood.
BrunanskysSlide said:
This perspective doesn't take into account something we've discussed here and is (IMO) the controlling factor: If the NFL had to admit that they may have compromised the integrity of the AFC Championship Game for the sake of a failed sting operation, that would be about as destructive as it gets.
This is why PW/Wells were not asked to do an independent investigation and lay out what happened. They were instructed to find out how the balls ended up under inflated. So they started with the premise that "something happened." And when you start with that premise, you twist things to fit with your bias.
- The science of whether the inflation levels of the balls could have happened organically is inconclusive to the point of being comical. But if you look at the fact set through the lens of the balls being tampered with, you are forced to set the parameters of your assumptions so that the observed measurements fall just outside of the standard deviation of expected results. And so long as those assumptions are both noted and within the realm of possibility, they will carry the day regardless of the logical weaknesses or lack of scientific rigor.
- By themselves, the texts are meaningless drivel between employees who are tired of being berated by Brady because the balls are out of spec in terms of being overinflated. But if you look at them through the lens of the balls being tampered with after the ref approved them, they are strong evidence.
- Brady's unwillingness to allow the league to have his cell phone is meaningless. But in the context of the balls being tampered with, it's obstruction.
This is how you end up with it being more probable than not that the balls were improperly deflated and if that was true, then it's more probable than not that Brady was generally aware that the deflation was happening.
So yeah, this is an embarrassing mountain of innuendo and it causes great damage to Tom Brady and the reputation of the Pats. But it absolves the NFL of having to admit that there's a possibility that they may have inadvertently compromised the integrity of the AFC Championship Game. And since any appeals process will focus on the conclusions rather than the alternatives, it ensures that the NFL will never have to admit this.
As far as the NFL is concerned, Brady as fall guy serves the greater good even if any punishment is ultimately rejected on appeal.
Being a Fierce cop is one thing.
Had he been fierce about things that matter.....like beating a woman in an elevator or your kids until their ass bleeds, thats one thing.
Hell I would commend him for spending NFL money to promote workplace intolerance of such causes and by shedding a light on some of societies ills.
Instead he is a fierce cop who does this? We brought in a guy to clean up the city and he is handing out parking tickets while murders and rapists terrorize the night.
Had he been fierce about things that matter.....like beating a woman in an elevator or your kids until their ass bleeds, thats one thing.
Hell I would commend him for spending NFL money to promote workplace intolerance of such causes and by shedding a light on some of societies ills.
Instead he is a fierce cop who does this? We brought in a guy to clean up the city and he is handing out parking tickets while murders and rapists terrorize the night.
Phil Perry @PhilAPerry 12s13 seconds ago
On @SportsCenter, @AdamSchefter says the sense he's gotten is that Tom Brady will be suspended somewhere in the 2-4 game range.
On @SportsCenter, @AdamSchefter says the sense he's gotten is that Tom Brady will be suspended somewhere in the 2-4 game range.
And they’ll all owe Goodell a debt of gratitude if and when this ever ends. I find it hard to think of a bigger narcissist than Roger Goodell.BrunanskysSlide said:
