#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[cshea]

 
Troy VIncent referenced it in his statement. There's no quetion that was part of the equation.
 
EDIT- Troy VIncent's quote:
 

As posted earlier, the Jets have been caught violating the rules 3 times since 2009. Have yet to face anything larger than a $125K fine and 3 game suspension for a coach. Prior acts appear to only be factored in when it fits the league's narrative.

This was a witch hunt.

 

[garzooma]

One thing Kraft should have done yesterday is reinstate McNally and Jastremski.  People are using the fact that the Patriots suspended them as evidence that they did in fact deflate the footballs.

 

[Section15Box113]

They could theoretically trade a player (or other picks) for a 2016 first. In that case, they essentially get their pick back. They'd lose whichever pick is higher, the one they traded for or their natural pick based on where they finish.

Sure, but that wasn't Moondog's scenario.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

'It would set a bad precedent'

Hahahahahaha

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

 
RG dropped the first round pick hammer because he knows hes a fucktard and that Brady's suspension will get kneaded down to 0-1 game. He knows the 1st round pick can/will stick, so he wants to make sure that - despite there being no reason for such a heavy hand - the welt remains on the Patriots asscheek for a few years.

You see it all the time in MLB: make the punishment twice what is desired and watch it get cut in half on appeal. It's a joke in MLB but when we're talking a handful of MLB games it's not a big deal. Basically a few scheduled off days. The impact of these things in the NFL? Much more significant.

 

[crystalline]

 
I didn't make the statement. Troy Vincent did. They factored in Spygate when passing their judgement on this issue. It's indisputable, right or wrong.

Also, I stated sodenj5 hates dogs and arranges dog fights where animals are killed for entertainment. It's indisputable, right or wrong.



I don't get the number of people that want to declare the actual facts about actual truth off limits because someone made a statement. When someone is wrong, the truth of their statement should be discussed hand in hand with the fact their statement was uttered.

 

[dcmissle]

Again back to the font of so much wisdom:

"Sonny: All right, we wait.

Michael: It can't wait.

Sonny: Huh?

Michael: It can't wait. I don't care what Sollozzo says about a deal, he's gonna kill Pop. That's it. That's a key for him. Gotta get Sollozzo.

Clemenza: Mikey's right."


Stich touched on this in a companion thread. We cannot continue to live like this because every trumped up allegation serves as an occasion to attempt to cripple the team. And hurting the team, unfortunately, serves the agenda of executives and coaches League wide, and even some owners who want to provide alt reasons for their teams' underperformance.

Here's the bottom line on what we have just been through -- the "justice" was right out of Putin's Russia and structurally it is very difficult to defend against that.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

One thing Kraft should have done yesterday is reinstate McNally and Jastremski.  People are using the fact that the Patriots suspended them as evidence that they did in fact deflate the footballs.

 
Kraft is setting up to make the "Brady requested 12.5 psi and Jastremski and McNally acted on their own and took things a little to far" narrative, and suspending the two furthers that cause.  Kraft is willing to swallow the $1M hit and loss of draft picks (team's punishment for, at least in part, failing to properly monitor Jastremski and McNally) to optimally pursue the bigger goal: overturning/reducing Brady's suspension, which of course is harmful to both Brady and the team.

 

[ivanvamp]

The best elixir in times like these?  

 
Rewatching the Super Bowl and the Three Games to Glory DVD.

 

[sodenj5]

Also, I stated sodenj5 hates dogs and arranges dog fights where animals are killed for entertainment. It's indisputable, right or wrong.



I don't get the number of people that want to declare the actual facts about actual truth off limits because someone made a statement. When someone is wrong, the truth of their statement should be discussed hand in hand with the fact their statement was uttered.

 
This post makes a lot of sense. My original statement was the league factored in spygate when passing their judgement, one of the reasons it was so harsh. SJH said it was 8 years ago and completely unrelated. While that may be true, the league ultimately did consider it and said as much. The league factoring spygate into their judgement on the ball deflation is a fact. Whether or not that is the right thing to do is certainly debatable, but whether or not they did it is not.

 

[Average Reds]

 
This post makes a lot of sense. My original statement was the league factored in spygate when passing their judgement, one of the reasons it was so harsh. SJH said it was 8 years ago and completely unrelated. While that may be true, the league ultimately did consider it and said as much. The league factoring spygate into their judgement on the ball deflation is a fact. Whether or not that is the right thing to do is certainly debatable, but whether or not they did it is not.

 
I know what you were trying to say, but your initial post read (or could be read) as if you were endorsing that perspective yourself, which is why you are getting some emotional reactions. Alternatively, SJH's response doesn't necessarily have to be read as arguing with you.  He's dismissing the Vincent quote.
 
Either way, my advice (from one non-Pats fan to another) is to let it go.  Emotions are running high.

 

[DegenerateSoxFan]

I know it's about selling newspapers/garnering mouse clicks, but it really is infuriating when even reporters who should know (or do know) better still misrepresent what "spygate" was all about. Just check out out Jackie Mac's screed about the punishment being excessive. For some reason, my computer isn't letting me copy links, but here's what she had to say about it:
 
"The repercussions from spygate were harsh because Patriots coach Bill Belichick knew that the league had explicitly prohibited the videotaping of opponents' defensive signals, and he thumbed his nose at Goodell and went out and taped the Jets anyways."
 
No Jackie, that's not what the league prohibited.  Why can't you come out and say it?
 
Edit: mispelling

 

[Stitch01]

He's right, it was factored in, or at least presented as a fig leaf.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Kraft is setting up to make the "Brady requested 12.5 psi and Jastremski and McNally acted on their own and took things a little to far" narrative, and suspending the two furthers that cause.  Kraft is willing to swallow the $1M hit and loss of draft picks (team's punishment for, at least in part, failing to properly monitor Jastremski and McNally) to optimally pursue the bigger goal: overturning/reducing Brady's suspension, which of course is harmful to both Brady and the team.

 
Well he's also setting up the "we did everything we were supposed to do and YOU FUCKED US IN VIOLATION OF THE [owner's agreement?team purchase agreement?league bylaws]" narrative. 

 

[SoxJox]

Too many threads to know if this has already been raised elsewhere, but while Brady apparently did not ask for NFLPA assistance during the investigation, has anything been suggested as to any stance the NFLPA might take now that the punishment has been levied?
 
This article suggests that the reason Brady eschewed NFLPA assistance during the investigation was in part based on the perceived preferences of the league. The thinking was that, by not involving the union, Brady and the Patriots would not be potentially complicating the process unnecessarily.

 

[Bleedred]

The suspension was expected and will likely be appealed down to 1-2 games. The draft picks, though...damn. RG dropped the hammer. I think that they made it clear that because the Patriots are "previous offenders" and because they weren't completely cooperative and transparent throughout the investigation, they brought down the hammer.

Page 23 of the Wells Report:  "In addition, the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation, making personnel, documents and other information available to us upon request.  As noted herein, this cooperation was subject to an important exception - the refusal by counsel for the Patriots to arrange a requested follow-up interview of Jim McNally by our investigative team.  Over the course of the investigation, we maintained cloese and regular contact with counsel for the Patriots, who also provided us with their views on various aspects of the evidence and suggested certain lines of inquiry.  Indeed, counsel for the Patriots sent us dozens of emails, including extensive commentary on witness testimony, video fooage, theories of intent, applicable evidentiary standards, scientific data, interpretation of text messages and other topics....We incorporated the input and suggestions made by counsel for the Patriots in our interview questioning and analysis as appropriate (my emphasis).  We also provided counsel for the Patriots with an overview of the views expressed by our scientific consultants so that they could provide us with their views on whether there were additional issues or considerations that should be reviewed or analyzed by our consultants.
 
A couple of things here:
 
1.  If this case does eventually end up in "discovery" in a court of competent jurisdiction, it will be fascinating to see what the Patriots counsel provided to wells as far as their "views on various aspects of the evidence and what "lines of inquiry" they suggested.  More to the point, which ones Wells felt were "appropriate" to include in their analysis.
2.  I'm very curious about Wells providing an "overview" of the views expressed by the scientific consultants.  What does that mean?   Did he not provide all of the hard data to the Patriots so that they too could conlcude, as many of the scientists have here, that the "science" and gauging of the balls was riddled with error?   

 

[ManhattanRedSox]

The Brady witch hunt bothers me most.  If you go with the assumption that Goodell remains employed not because he is an awesome Commissioner, but because he's improved the bottom line for the owners, then he has truly gone 'full retard' by dragging one of the most popular, profitable franchises and arguably the league's most marketable player (Cinderella 6th round story to 4 rings, GOAT etc.) through the mud.  Popular NFL players remain popular long after they've stopped playing (see Butkus, Brown, Smith, etc.) - so this stink isn't rubbing off "the shield" once Brady stops playing.  This is the part I cannot wrap my head around.
 
The 4th rounder - don't care - it's not like 4's are lead pipe locks to make or break a team.  The 1st stings, but BB has shown he can win a Super Bowl w/o one (Easley).  It's the self inflicted steaming dump on the player and the legitimacy of the NFL that tweaks me most.

 

[Padaiyappa]

If the Patriots have enough evidence, should they go after Ted Wells to get him removed from the New York Bar association for putting out a bias investigation? Heck get a PI on this guy to dig up all his dirt to call out his integrity. It is a long shot but if they truly find that a scumbag did this investigation it would totally discredit his report....

 

[gammoseditor]

 
This post makes a lot of sense. My original statement was the league factored in spygate when passing their judgement, one of the reasons it was so harsh. SJH said it was 8 years ago and completely unrelated. While that may be true, the league ultimately did consider it and said as much. The league factoring spygate into their judgement on the ball deflation is a fact. Whether or not that is the right thing to do is certainly debatable, but whether or not they did it is not.

 
I'm pretty sure everyone understands spygate was factored into the decision.  You've posted this 3 or 4 times now.  It's a fact.  Everyone is just pissed off because it's bullshit that it was.  It was 8 years ago.  The Wells report cleared Belichick of any knowledge of the deflated footballs.  Brady was not implicated in spygate.  

 

[ivanvamp]

As posted earlier, the Jets have been caught violating the rules 3 times since 2009. Have yet to face anything larger than a $125K fine and 3 game suspension for a coach. Prior acts appear to only be factored in when it fits the league's narrative.

This was a witch hunt.

 
Problems with this whole thing - this is not a comprehensive list.
 
1.  It is based on assumptions.  Everything in the Wells report could be explained if the starting assumption was different.  And, really, even within the Wells report the alternative starting assumption is a real possibility.  The 16psi balls given the Patriots in the Jets' game.  If that actually happened, then no wonder Brady would be on them about making sure the balls are deflated to get to the right number.  If that's the true starting point, then this entire thing is no problem.
 
2.  The notion that this wasn't a "sting".  Hogwash.  It is clear from the evidence that the NFL front office was alerted to possible Patriots' tampering, so they made sure to take extra precaution.  But when the balls were found missing, Walt Anderson didn't simply make sure the balls were re-inflated properly, or go to the backup balls.  Nope.  This was SO important that it impacts the integrity of the game, and yet Anderson didn't do ANYTHING to make sure that the Patriots played with properly inflated footballs.  Instead, he and the league allowed the first half of the football game to be played with the Patriots having a competitive advantage.  THAT is the major story here.  Or at least it should be.
 
3.  Faulty science.  All over the place.  Too much to state simply, but we know the myriad of problems with it.
 
4.  The internal inconsistencies.  They rely on Walt Anderson's memory when it is convenient for them.  But they toss it out when it's not.  Namely, which gauge he used.  Anderson's memory on the gauge is sufficient to undermine the science they put forth, and it kills the whole nefarious scenario.  So they ignore that and go with his memory that he got the pressure measured correctly.  In a cross-examination, he'd get absolutely skewered.
 
5.  The inconsistencies in terms of how they punish this infraction.  We all know about the Chargers (2012) and Panthers (2014) tampering with the footballs after they've been inspected by the refs, and how SD got a $20k fine and the Panthers got a warning.  That's it.  The Patriots aren't even actually CAUGHT doing anything but receive THIS punishment?  
 
6.  The notion that past offenses should have come into play here.  The Jets, as you note, are 3-time offenders, and nowhere do their past infractions come into play. Other teams are multiple time offenders, and nowhere do their past infractions come into play.  I posted yesterday, and I believe it more today, that this is all about Spygate.  
 
This absolutely was a witch hunt.  Now that doesn't mean that there wasn't a witch to hunt.  But let's call it what it is - a witch hunt, pure and simple.
 
Man it's gonna piss people off when the Patriots win another Super Bowl.

 

[DJnVa]

I'm still chuckling at the fact that the Wells Report said the Pats didn't make McNally available for an additional interview, when it's come out today that they made him available for a phone interview.
 
Now, that may not be what the NFL wanted, and I understand that, but the report should have at least presented that information. That, and the gauge things are 2 things that are going to kill the NFL if it gets out of Goodell's hands on appeal.

 

[whiteroom]

Sit all of the starters for the 'NFL Opening Night' game. Treat it like a pre-season game. I think the NFL advertisers and broadcast partners might sit up and take notice. 
 
https://youtu.be/-8h_v_our_Q

 

[crystalline]

 
This post makes a lot of sense. My original statement was the league factored in spygate when passing their judgement, one of the reasons it was so harsh. SJH said it was 8 years ago and completely unrelated. While that may be true, the league ultimately did consider it and said as much. The league factoring spygate into their judgement on the ball deflation is a fact. Whether or not that is the right thing to do is certainly debatable, but whether or not they did it is not.

Yes, apologies for getting worked up- I get what you are saying about the league, and this response is reasonable. I think I was just primed by the Felger discussion, where people said his stupidity on the issues was off limits, as he was reporting others' opinions and it was indisputable that they held those incorrect opinions.

 

[NYCSox]

The only way this makes any rational sense is to look at it from the POV that "more likely than not" is akin to a 100% certainty in the mind of Goodell. Had the allegations been supported by clear and convincing evidence then ISTM that the punishment would be considered appropriate.* But barring some piece of evidence that has not been made publicly available (which seems highly unlikely), this simply looks like Goodell drawing every possible negative inference that he can because ... well... your guess is as good as mine. Clearly the Spygate nonsense bothers him to this day and that's just being a petty and vindictive asshole.
 
As a Steelers fan, I've been more than aggravated by Goodell and his arbitrary punishments (slamming Harrison and Bell, looking the other way when it's Lewis or Suggs). But this, this really takes the cake. I don't mind not facing Brady in Week 1 but this kind of behavior from Goodell can't be tolerated.
 
* Here I mean that the balls were doctored after review and supported by proof to that effect.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
Well he's also setting up the "we did everything we were supposed to do and YOU FUCKED US IN VIOLATION OF THE [owner's agreement?team purchase agreement?league bylaws]" narrative. 

 
Unless of course they did in fact shut off access to McNally, which, based on what's currently known (publicly), would be easier to prove than would that Brady acted wrongfully.  

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

 
This post makes a lot of sense. My original statement was the league factored in spygate when passing their judgement, one of the reasons it was so harsh. SJH said it was 8 years ago and completely unrelated. While that may be true, the league ultimately did consider it and said as much. The league factoring spygate into their judgement on the ball deflation is a fact. Whether or not that is the right thing to do is certainly debatable, but whether or not they did it is not.

 
Well, they said they were using that as a factor, but punishments haven't been stacking for other teams in similar situations, right? Michael Vick was in the Falcons organization when the dog fighting shit happened 8 years ago. Despite the Falcons not having any responsibility (much like the Patriots in this case, as acknowledged in the Wells report), their punishment for pumping in crowd noise didn't factor in Vick's discretion's. 
 
The Washington Redskins have had 10 players suspended since 2011. Where is the comedown on the organization for harboring these players? The Seahawks have had 9, the Colts 6. Where is the outrage that these teams - despite not having any direct knowledge of players breaking the rules, just like the Wells report has decided the Patriots had no knowledge of any wrongdoing - are harboring groups of cheaters? How about the Ravens organization? They've created more ill will for the shield than any other team by employing some of the most villainous players in the league. Where is the reprimand for consistently affecting the integrity of the game?
 
I'm not advocating for the teams to be penalized, of course. The path RG has chosen to go down can absolutely lead to this slippery slope. "Tom Brady may have done something bad. The Patriots didn't know. Both will be penalized." Going forward, every team should be held accountable for every indiscretion by their players, otherwise the standard is not up kept.

 

[Ed Hillel]

If this McNally report is true, that's outrageous. That's a flat out fucking lie by Wells and staff, and he will get destroyed on appeal.

I was under the impression that this was a semi-sting operation, but the way the Wells Report was commissioned makes me think it was a full-blown sting. Harbaugh started it after Brady's comments and as a result of his bitterness, and he, Irsay, and Kensil set the whole thing up to catch them in the act.

The other owners are happy Goodell because they want this. They need a reason to explain to fans why they don't have the success of other franchises, so bam, here you go.

 

[Yossarian]

The Spygate reference to team culpability only makes any kind of sense if the league is going with a "the buck stops with you" approach vis-a-vis Kraft and Belichick. As in, "knowledge or not, it's your responsibility to educate your staff on the rules and ensure full compliance." But the NFL's own total fucking indifference to ball manipulation prior to the Patriots getting involved destroys that narrative. I mean, how are BB and his people supposed to realize the importance of driving home the importance of this rule to players and ball boys when the league itself is constantly signaling that they don't give a shit?

 

[sodenj5]

 
Well, they said they were using that as a factor, but punishments haven't been stacking for other teams in similar situations, right? Michael Vick was in the Falcons organization when the dog fighting shit happened 8 years ago. Despite the Falcons not having any responsibility (much like the Patriots in this case, as acknowledged in the Wells report), their punishment for pumping in crowd noise didn't factor in Vick's digressions. 
 
The Washington Redskins have had 10 players suspended since 2011. Where is the comedown on the organization for harboring these players? The Seahawks have had 9, the Colts 6. Where is the outrage that these teams - despite not having any direct knowledge of players breaking the rules, just like the Wells report has decided the Patriots had no knowledge of any wrongdoing - are harboring groups of cheaters? How about the Ravens organization? They've created more ill will for the league than any other team by employing some of the most villainous players in the league. Where is the reprimand for consistently affecting the integrity of the game?
 
I'm not advocating for the teams to be penalized, of course. The path RG has chosen to go down can absolutely lead to this slippery slope. "Tom Brady may have done something bad. The Patriots didn't know. Both will be penalized." Going forward, every team should be held accountable for every indiscretion by their players, otherwise the standard is not up kept.

 
I agree, although, you could argue that the dogfighting and crowd noise are completely unrelated, while spygate and ball deflation are at least somewhat related in terms of violating league rules.
 
I think you put it well when you said RG knows the suspension won't stick and will be reduced, the money is pretty much a non-factor, but the draft picks are the real bite in the punishment. He wanted to make sure that something stung them long-term.

 

[kartvelo]

 

I'm not advocating for the teams to be penalized, of course. The path RG has chosen to go down can absolutely lead to this slippery slope. "Tom Brady may have done something bad. The Patriots didn't know. Both will be penalized." Going forward, every team should be held accountable for every imagined indiscretion by their players, otherwise the standard is not up kept.

Agreed, but FTFY.

 

[ivanvamp]

The Spygate reference to team culpability only makes any kind of sense if the league is going with a "the buck stops with you" approach vis-a-vis Kraft and Belichick. As in, "knowledge or not, it's your responsibility to educate your staff on the rules and ensure full compliance." But the NFL's own total fucking indifference to ball manipulation prior to the Patriots getting involved destroys that narrative. I mean, how are BB and his people supposed to realize the importance of driving home the importance of this rule to players and ball boys when the league itself is constantly signaling that they don't give a shit?

 
By the "the buck stops with you, Kraft" logic - meaning that the guy at the top of the totem pole is ultimately responsible for the actions and failings of his underlings - means that Goodell should be forced to take personal responsibility for the officials giving the Patriots balls inflated to 16psi, or for Anderson losing the footballs and not insuring that the Patriots played with properly inflated footballs.  

 

[bluefenderstrat]

The Spygate reference to team culpability only makes any kind of sense if the league is going with a "the buck stops with you" approach vis-a-vis Kraft and Belichick. As in, "knowledge or not, it's your responsibility to educate your staff on the rules and ensure full compliance." But the NFL's own total fucking indifference to ball manipulation prior to the Patriots getting involved destroys that narrative. I mean, how are BB and his people supposed to realize the importance of driving home the importance of this rule to players and ball boys when the league itself is constantly signaling that they don't give a shit?

 
This is also why BB "threw Brady under the bus" in his first comments about the issue.  He had no idea that anyone gave a shit, and said "Tom likes his balls a certain way, whatever," not realizing that would only fuel the mania.   And Brady thought it was hilarious when WEEI asked him about it the morning after the AFC Championship game.   I think he said "oh, now I've heard it all."

 

[Hoya81]

The Spygate reference to team culpability only makes any kind of sense if the league is going with a "the buck stops with you" approach vis-a-vis Kraft and Belichick. As in, "knowledge or not, it's your responsibility to educate your staff on the rules and ensure full compliance." But the NFL's own total fucking indifference to ball manipulation prior to the Patriots getting involved destroys that narrative. I mean, how are BB and his people supposed to realize the importance of driving home the importance of this rule to players and ball boys when the league itself is constantly signaling that they don't give a shit?

If Belichick had retired after 2013 and Kraft decided to bring in a whole new coaching staff (David Shaw, say) do they still get whacked for Spygate?

 

[Stitch01]

Kraft should push during the appeals process for as many "independent" studies as possible.  The NFL front office, refs, gameday procedures for other teams, you name it.  He helped fund that $5MM Wells report, mine as well have the other owners chip in for a couple of more $5MM a pop studies.  They can get the hottakemachine behind the idea too.

 

[crystalline]

I don't think there's any chance that Kraft can get that many owners to side with him. I'd rather he spend his efforts embarrassing Fraudger at every turn.

Kraft will take the long view.

The way to hurt Roger is this- spread rumors now that he is poor at media relations and this is a big part of his job. "Boy, he nearly destroyed the league's reputation over Ray Rice. He's terrible at press conferences. Look at how well Adam Silver acts as the face of their league. Maybe Roger should just be focusing on labor negotiations."

Then the next time there is a crisis, just let Roger flap in the wind while you leak criticism to the media. And then make him a sacrificial lamb. It might take a few years for the next crisis, but you know Goodell is going to screw something up.

If Kraft wants to be really Machiavellian, he could try to reframe Roger's only skill set as labor negotiations. And then undermine the labor negotiations so the owners think there is a real possibility of a strike. Then once the other owners fear a strike, suggest the league hire someone else to run the negotiations and push out Roger.


---


We don't know much behind the scenes, but I think we know these things:
1. Bob Kraft is a skilled businessman.
2. Roger Goodell is a poor leader.

If Kraft is good at his job, he knows you back your chief employee and defend him unless the relationship is irreparably broken. You only get one bite when that relationship breaks, so you are loyal before and you don't make a move until it's a big deal--and then you bring out the long knives and make sure your guy and everyone else knows there are consequences to your (rare) anger.

So. I think Kraft is a good businessman, and if he has now truly chosen this spot to turn on Goodell, Goodell is going to face consequences. It may take a few years for Kraft to marshal his forces, but eventually I expect Goodell to be pushed out and his reputation ruined.

 

[Mooch]

If this McNally report is true, that's outrageous. That's a flat out fucking lie by Wells and staff, and he will get destroyed on appeal.

I was under the impression that this was a semi-sting operation, but the way the Wells Report was commissioned makes me think it was a full-blown sting. Harbaugh started it after Brady's comments and as a result of his bitterness, and he, Irsay, and Kensil set the whole thing up to catch them in the act.

The other owners are happy Goodell because they want this. They need a reason to explain to fans why they don't have the success of other franchises, so bam, here you go.

This is the more infuriating part of that McNally tidbit:
 

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

This whole thing is stomach-turning in every way. Total and complete bag job from top to bottom by the NFL and ESPN.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Stich01 wrote above that the Pats handled this whole thing fine.  I strongly disagree.
 
Tom denied knowing McNally.  Tom was in full denial mode when that was neither necessary nor advisable.
 
Had Tom said something along the lines of "damn right I ask the ball guys to adjust the balls...I ask them to get them to 12.5, which is where I like them.  They are not infallible and if balls were mistakenly adjusted below 12.5 or had readings below that after being exposed to rain and the elements, then that's on me, I guess."
 
Something like that would have gone a long way to making him less of a target.
 
As to Kraft, I enjoyed the crap out of the "we will be owed an apology" speech but at the end of the day, I don't think that helped.  I don't know how much it hurt, but it could not have helped.  It made me feel better at the time but my feelings are irrelevant.
 
I'm not blaming the victim but I think had Tom come out with something along the lines of the above and Kraft not thrown down that gauntlet, that things would have been less severe.

 

[Stitch01]

I highly doubt it.
 
Kraft had to stick up for his team.  Otherwise this whole mess would have barreled along through the week before the Super Bowl.  The public outcry would have been exactly the same, the Wells Report would have had some other pretext for why the Pats needed to be hammered, and the hammer would have been dropped.
 
Pretty clear today that only way this wouldn't have happened is if the Jets coaches hadn't been filmed from the wrong location within the stadium 8 years ago.

 

[Bleedred]

If this McNally report is true, that's outrageous. That's a flat out fucking lie by Wells and staff, and he will get destroyed on appeal.

I was under the impression that this was a semi-sting operation, but the way the Wells Report was commissioned makes me think it was a full-blown sting. Harbaugh started it after Brady's comments and as a result of his bitterness, and he, Irsay, and Kensil set the whole thing up to catch them in the act.

The other owners are happy Goodell because they want this. They need a reason to explain to fans why they don't have the success of other franchises, so bam, here you go.

I don't believe that they offered McNally for a phone interview.  The reporting on this whole affair has been really bad, and until I see it in some verifiable forum (court pleadings, etc.), or until someone from the NFL/Wells side tries to explain it away, I won't believe it.  

 

[DJnVa]

Sit all of the starters for the 'NFL Opening Night' game. Treat it like a pre-season game. I think the NFL advertisers and broadcast partners might sit up and take notice. 
 
https://youtu.be/-8h_v_our_Q

 

When everyone watches to see what happens?
 
It won't move the ratings at all.

 

[moondog80]

The bit about "if they have two picks in the first round, they surrender the higher of the picks" -- that's insane.  Just take their own first round pick and be done with it.  If they somehow trade up to the 10th pick, that doesn't mean they've skirted they penalty, it means they've given up something else of value to do so.  This is just about optics, right?  They don't want to deal with mouth breathers saying they "cheated" the penalty by trading up?

 

[crystalline]

 
I'm not blaming the victim but I think had Tom come out with something along the lines of the above and Kraft not thrown down that gauntlet, that things would have been less severe and Tom's comments might have dialed down the heat to some extent. 

True, but if they received and accepted a minor penalty over this, it would have just fueled the existing BS spygate narrative.

With the over the top penalty and clear witch hunt, we may end up in a few months with some vindication after the NFL has to walk back their penalties. This could easily end with Pats fans saying to fans of other teams: "From Spygate to the balls, the NFL has been on a ten year witch hunt against the Pats. It's all crap and the Pats won anyway."

 

[TheoShmeo]

Good job, good effort, Stich01!  I know I'm convinced.

 

[BroodsSexton]

The bit about "if they have two picks in the first round, they surrender the higher of the picks" -- that's insane.  Just take their own first round pick and be done with it.  If they somehow trade up to the 10th pick, that doesn't mean they've skirted they penalty, it means they've given up something else of value to do so.  This is just about optics, right?  They don't want to deal with mouth breathers saying they "cheated" the penalty by trading up?

Or it's about imposing a competitive handicap on the Patriots, not just a penalty.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Stich01 wrote above that the Pats handled this whole thing fine.  I strongly disagree.
 
Tom denied knowing McNally.  Tom was in full denial mode when that was neither necessary nor advisable.
 
Had Tom said something along the lines of "damn right I ask the ball guys to adjust the balls...I ask them to get them to 12.5, which is where I like them.  They are not infallible and if balls were mistakenly adjusted below 12.5 or had readings below that after being exposed to rain and the elements, then that's on me, I guess."
 
Something like that would have gone a long way to making him less of a target.
 
As to Kraft, I enjoyed the crap out of the "we will be owed an apology" speech but at the end of the day, I don't think that helped.  I don't know how much it hurt, but it could not have helped.  It made me feel better at the time but my feelings are irrelevant.
 
I'm not blaming the victim but I think had Tom come out with something along the lines of the above and Kraft not thrown down that gauntlet, that things would have been less severe.

 
I may have missed it, but where is the proof that Tom did know McNally? According to the conversations, Tom was aware that McNally existed in a general sense ("the guy that deflates the footballs for Jastremski"), but I don't see any evidence that Tom had ever met, seen, or spoken with McNally. If Tom is presented with the question, "Do you know Tom McNally?", he may have no fucking idea who McNally is.

 

[Tito's Pullover]

So the McNally thing went something like this... Wells asks for another interview, McNally/the Patriots say "okay, but the guy has a separate full time job and can't take more time out of work, how about we do it by phone?" Wells realizes that he can spin this into "McNally/the Patriots denied a request for an additional interview, which was not helpful", and concludes that this might be more damning than anything they can get out of an interview, whether face-to-face, by phone, by Facebook messenger, etc.  Wells says "nope, you know what, never mind, we're good."  And that's how we get a million dollar fine for a failure to cooperate.

 

[tims4wins]

I don't believe that they offered McNally for a phone interview.  The reporting on this whole affair has been really bad, and until I see it in some verifiable forum (court pleadings, etc.), or until someone from the NFL/Wells side tries to explain it away, I won't believe it.  

But hasn't the NFL established that proof doesn't matter and that "reports" are facts?

 

[Leather]

Or it's about imposing a competitive handicap on the Patriots, not just a penalty.

 
Right.  This whole thing started because the Colts were basically forced to concede a fucking AFC Championship game because they knew they had 0 fucking chance of winning, so they (with an assist from the Ravens) sought to tear down the Patriots.   It's notable that the franchises that seem to be involved in this: the Jets, the Colts, and the Ravens, are the ones that would have most benefited over the past several years from the Patriots being not so good.

 

[moondog80]

Or it's about imposing a competitive handicap on the Patriots, not just a penalty.

 
 
Banning them from trading down, or from trading into the high second round, would be just as much of a penalty.  This is 100% PR.   "You can't reshuffle your assets in a way that morons might think you put one over on us".

 

[Mooch]

Peter King seems to believe that Kraft will sue the NFL:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/12/peter-king-robert-kraft-will-go-rogue-on-this-and-take-nfl-to-court/