#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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allmanbro

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One of the things that's kind of amazing about the report and the league's response is that it is weak at every step. This means that there is no one problem that has been the focus of sustained attack. This is a problem in the public dialogue, hopefully it won't be one the appeal/in court, or wherever the real battle is fought. But, just to summarize a lot of what has been said here:

1) there is not good reason to believe that there is a discrepancy in ball pressures that requires explanation

2) even if there where, there are reasons to suspect the two attendants, but insufficient reason to consider them guilty

3) even if there were reason to think that these guys did something, there is little reason to think Brady was aware, and no reason to think he ordered it

4) even if you totally buy the case Wells made, this would be an offense that the league has clearly never cared about

5) and there are plenty of replies to the fallback complaint that they failed cooperate


When there are so many flaws, you can't adequately explain them all in any single narrative (conversation, article, whatever). This is especially true when the issues at each step are complicated and often unintuitive -especially at the first step. The effect is that to reply you have two options: focus on one of these and concede, or look as though you are conceding, the rest, or go after them all and look like you are giving some laundry list of needling complaints which you (biased Pats fan that you are) would be looking for even if the report had been stronger.

Neither of these adequately expresses the weakness of the case against Brady and the Pats. So you (or at least I) end up sounding like a whiny Pats homer to anyone you talk to.

It's hard to know the best way, rhetorically, to handle something like this.

Edit: remove accidental copy-paste
 

dcmissle

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MarcSullivaFan said:
I agree that Goodell got a great result in the last negotiation. Having a principal that is willing to lock out its employees and a union that is not willing to endure a long work stoppage is an excellent recipe for success. The NFLPA is going to have to be willing to sacrifice game checks if they ever want to get the relationship equalized.
That's the big picture for the owners. They were pissed at the deal that Tagliabue forced on them, so they forced Tagliabue out.
 

J.McG

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Hoya81 said:

An underinflated ball is theoretically easier to handle (catch, carry) in rain/snow games. The downside (also theoretical) is that the ball, being less firm, can't be thrown as hard or as deep and is possibly more vulnerable to wind.
 
troparra said:

I think we have to stop this narrative right now. We are not comparing 8psi to 16psi.  We are not even comparing 11.5psi to 13.5 psi.  The Wells report, in all it's cherry picking and biased glory, has determined that the Patriots balls were about 0.3psi below what would be expected.   In other words, 0.3psi higher and the balls are legal. And that's the best that this guilt-presuming report could manage despite all their data  manipulations. So, do we believe that a ball at 12.2psi would be fumbled or dropped significantly less than a ball at 12.5psi?
 
I know this has probably been cited a thousand times by now, but according to tests done by ESPN's Sport Science lab, using actual NFL players as test subjects, a 2.0 PSI deflation (from 12.5 to 10.5; note the Pats balls averaged 11.3 PSI at halftime) resulted in the following nominal impacts:
 
-  football mass reduced by ~1.5 grams (equivalent to weight of a single dollar bill)
-  < 1.0 mm of additional compression to ball surface (applying normal grip strength)
-  ~1.5% increase in average applied grip force (when catching a pass)
-  slight reduction in ball velocity (e.g. flight time of 20 yd pass initially released at 50 mph increased by 0.003 seconds vs. properly inflated ball)
 
Conclusion reached by Brenkus & crew -- playing with balls deflated to 10.5 PSI produces a miniscule advantage when it comes to gripping the ball, but is offset by the negative effects on both the speed and accuracy of the ball in flight.

 
Full Sport Science clip spoilered below:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ_S8F3mKFE
 

Guapos Toenails

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tims4wins said:
 
But what it might suggest is, McNally took balls into bathroom, used needle to let air out of each ball, and wasn't perfectly precise since he didn't have a gauge, he just had a needle. That seems plausible to me. I think, if that happened, it was done with the intention of making sure the balls were around 12.5 to comply with TB's preference, not any scheme to get the balls down to 11 or whatever.
To me, this is the Occam's Razor explanation that seems as obvious and logical as the sun rising in the east. 
 

Icculus

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Bleedred said:
Say what you want about spygate, but the hubris shown by BB after receiving the memo from the league to no longer shoot from those places was worthy of punishment.  He deliberately disregarded an edict of a new commissioner, and while BB couldn't have known that Goodell was a think-skinned ninny, a punishment was due.  A first round pick and half a million dollars?  No f'ing way.
 
Yet the league either tried to change a rule with a memo (can't do that) or didn't even know the rule they were referencing in said memo. I'll agree that just ignoring it is not how he should have handled things but lets not pretend that BB straight ignored it because he didn't like it.
 

AB in DC

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dynomite said:
Yes, as said above Big Ben was suspended for 6 games in 2010, which was reduced to 4.

Edit: The Steelers went 3-1 in those games, ended up 12-4, and lost to the Packers in the Super Bowl.

 
I believe they had a veteran back-up in Charlie Batch.  (Or was it Byron Leftwich? )
 
Either way, the Pats should probably sign a veteran to back-up Garopollo, or take over in case Garopollo isn't ready.  I still think the suspension will be reduced, if not elmiinated upon appeal, but better to sign a veteran now and give them time to gel with the system during training camp. 
 

dcmissle

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Guapos Toenails said:
To me, this is the Occam's Razor explanation that seems as obvious and logical as the sun rising in the east. 
And that's what so dumb about this and so tough from the Pats' standpoint. You can't be screwing with the balls at that point; I don't care whether they went below 12.5 or not.
 

lexrageorge

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dcmissle said:
I am surprised and a bit concerned if the penalties in fact came as a shock to the NEPs and Robert Kraft. The penalties were fairly predictable, so I hope this report is wrong. If it's right, it suggests a level of naïveté that worries me.

What's the next shock -- when Goodell says I am going to be the reviewing judge on these penalties? Though perhaps unlikely, you had better be prepared for it.
I'm sure Kraft may have had an inkling that he would have to pay a fine and at worst forfeit a mid-round pick.  That was the general consensus among SoSH'ers prior to the report's release.  To lose 2 draft picks, one a first rounder, and fork over $1M, for something this minor is truly unprecedented among all sports, never mind the NFL. 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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RedOctober3829 said:
This isn't directed at you RO but my reply to this article is "So what?"

Its pretty clear from the mega thread that some Patriots fans and even La Canfora might be overestimating Kraft's standing in the league. Oooh, Kraft is mad...watch out.

We don't really know but based on reports around the investigation, more than a few other teams lodged complaints against the Patriots. If that is correct, Goodell's approach here to teach New England a lesson probably garners more political capital than he loses from pissing off Kraft.
 

RedOctober3829

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
This isn't directed at you RO but my reply to this article is "So what?"

Its pretty clear from the mega thread that some Patriots fans and even La Canfora might be overestimating Kraft's standing in the league. Oooh, Kraft is mad...watch out.

We don't really know but based on reports around the investigation, more than a few other teams lodged complaints against the Patriots. If that is correct, Goodell's approach here to teach New England a lesson probably garners more political capital than he loses from pissing off Kraft.
Another way to look at this is that Kraft is going to fight this tooth and nail to send his own message to the league.  That message is that the other owners better watch out because this could just as easily have happened to you too.
 

Reverend

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AB in DC said:
Nice job turning everything into personal attacks on me.  Congratulations, the pro-Patriots mob is now just as bad as the anti-Patriots mob.  Bye now.
 
Yeah, a lot of that was really unnecessary. The forum's gotten a bit out of hand for obvious reasons, but if people could cut the shit and not make it worse, it'd be appreciated.
 
As some have mentioned, this place is trying to be an isle of relative sanity--with an emphasis on "relative"--in a world that thinks this is important, so we'd like to keep it that way.
 

nighthob

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
We don't really know but based on reports around the investigation, more than a few other teams lodged complaints against the Patriots. If that is correct, Goodell's approach here to teach New England a lesson probably garners more political capital than he loses from pissing off Kraft.
One, I doubt any owners lodged complaints. That would be their employees. Two, I doubt that any of the owners that want Goodell out change their mind on that matter given that Goodell burned his bridges to his biggest supporter. If anything, this emboldens them to torpedo the weakened commissioner knowing that they have a new ally.
 

lexrageorge

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DegenerateSoxFan said:
We hear quite a bit about how Goodell is actually great at his job because he helps the owners make their billions. I just wonder what he actually does well that makes the bilionaire's club feel that he's worth $44 million per. Is something to do with the television contracts? Just what does he actually do that makes him so valuable to the owners? Can one of the numerous people here who are more knowledgable than me explain this?
I've seen numerous cases first hand where folks at the exec/VP/GM level of make the most massive of dumb decisions and get away with it.  And get away with it they do as long as the VP's division is meeting whatever business targets have been set.  
 
The owners see a favorable CBA, the success of the NFL's marketing arm (which is very well run, btw), expanding revenues, and TV contract gold.  It is true that little of this had to do with Goodell, although if he's letting the marketing/TV guys do their jobs without undue interference there's something to be said for that (I honestly have no idea if that's true or not).  
 
His management of football operations, PR, discipline, and the other things that the commissioner is directly responsible for is atrocious, and will likely be his undoing at some point.  But, from the owner's perspective, there's always the issue of dealing with the devil you know, etc. So I'd take the over when betting on the timeframe of "at some point". 
 

ilol@u

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I feel like Al Davis and Mark Cuban would be the only 2 owners in sports history to really end up going to war against the commissioner and the league. I doubt Kraft will sue or do anything else that may tarnish his reputstion with other league owners.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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RedOctober3829 said:
Another way to look at this is that Kraft is going to fight this tooth and nail to send his own message to the league.  That message is that the other owners better watch out because this could just as easily have happened to you too.
Except that it didn't. See the Vikings/Panthers game and the Rodgers anecdote. Given the amount of attention paid to this "transgression" as well as the severity of the punishment, it doesn't take a huge leap to think this is the NFL sending a very specific message to the Patriots.
 

nighthob

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AB in DC said:
Hasn't anyone been audited before?  Try that kind of attitude with the IRS and see how far it gets you.
Warren Buffett seems to have used that approach with the IRS to billions of dollars in success. (The US is a kelptocracy, to quote the immortal Lenny Bruce, "In the halls of justice the only justice is in the halls.")
 

nighthob

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Except that it didn't. See the Vikings/Panthers game and the Rodgers anecdote. Given the amount of attention paid to this "transgression" as well as the severity of the punishment, it doesn't take a huge leap to think this is the NFL sending a very specific message to the Patriots.
On the other hand it got the Browns GM a four game suspension.
 

Reverend

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uncannymanny said:
I was pointing out the inconsistencies in their trust of Anderson's recollections (which they do within a single page of the report).

As for the texts, I am not investigating anyone. I'm a former season ticket holder and very, very heavily biased in favor of the Patriots. I have done the same mental gymnastics as everyone else here to try to get to completely innocent, but I can't get there. You are also free to draw whatever conclusions you want, but I vehemently disagree that they only look bad if you're assuming the guilt of the parties involved. Quite the contrary, they're the *only* part of the report that makes me (you know, my personal opinion) lean to someone doing something nefarious and I'm not able to do blindly explain those conversations away as completely nothing. The rest of the report is a bunch of overwrought dog shit.
 
One thing not to lose sight of is that they only look bad if you believe any of this shit matters. That's the biggest assumption that the league and the media have slipped by many fans; if you relax that assumption, this is all pretty silly.
 

Hoya81

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
This isn't directed at you RO but my reply to this article is "So what?"

Its pretty clear from the mega thread that some Patriots fans and even La Canfora might be overestimating Kraft's standing in the league. Oooh, Kraft is mad...watch out.

We don't really know but based on reports around the investigation, more than a few other teams lodged complaints against the Patriots. If that is correct, Goodell's approach here to teach New England a lesson probably garners more political capital than he loses from pissing off Kraft.
 
I think the "Assistant Commissioner" phase of Kraft's ownership is over. After Brady's case is finished, Kraft will be a good soldier, but Goodell will struggle to find a more reliable owner to fill that spot.
 

AB in DC

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Icculus said:
 
Yet the league either tried to change a rule with a memo (can't do that) or didn't even know the rule they were referencing in said memo. I'll agree that just ignoring it is not how he should have handled things but lets not pretend that BB straight ignored it because he didn't like it.
 
Appparently it can. 
 
(Or at least no one has tried to stop them.)
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I would also add that its the middle of May at the height of both the NBA and NHL playoffs as well as the first quarter of the MLB season. Guess what is dominating sports news? Gooddell's hammer!
 

nighthob

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Yeah, but I don't think that the owners regard this as a positive. It's like claiming the Rice fiasco as a positive because the NFL was dominating the news cycle. There are times when you'd prefer not to be dominating the news cycle, and if the Ginger Knish decides to hear this appeal himself and the whole matter ends up in federal court it will end up looking even worse.
 

lexrageorge

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
This isn't directed at you RO but my reply to this article is "So what?"

Its pretty clear from the mega thread that some Patriots fans and even La Canfora might be overestimating Kraft's standing in the league. Oooh, Kraft is mad...watch out.

We don't really know but based on reports around the investigation, more than a few other teams lodged complaints against the Patriots. If that is correct, Goodell's approach here to teach New England a lesson probably garners more political capital than he loses from pissing off Kraft.
We really know less than what you give credit for.  We do know that teams give the league office a heads up on issues they would like to see emphasized prior to each game.  This process was reported some time back when this whole topic exploded.  These issues are hardly deemed "complaints", are not unique to New England, and are not lodged by the owners.  There are some media reports running with this, but those poorly sourced stories are so full of weasel words that they hardly even count as "smoke", never mind fire. 
 
I agree that Kraft, as well known and generally well respected as we believe he is among league circles, is just one owner out of 32.  However, I think you're significantly overestimating how much political capital Goodell gains from the other owners outside of Woody Johnson and Isray.  Most owners just care about the revenues going up and expenses going up less, and aren't going to magically embrace Goodell just because he docked the Pats some draft picks over a minor rules infraction. 
 

Reverend

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ifmanis5 said:
And that they taught all their OL how to leg whip on a regular basis. Every team is full of crap and the Integrity of the Game garbage couldn't be more laughable. This entire scandal is based on sour grapes.
 
Check out this from The Onion over two years ago.
 

djbayko

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dcmissle said:
I am surprised and a bit concerned if the penalties in fact came as a shock to the NEPs and Robert Kraft. The penalties were fairly predictable, so I hope this report is wrong. If it's right, it suggests a level of naïveté that worries me.

What's the next shock -- when Goodell says I am going to be the reviewing judge on these penalties? Though perhaps unlikely, you had better be prepared for it.
Meh...this article screams pure speculation. There is no new evidence offered. Kraft's public statement said they were shocked by the enormity of the punishment, and they turned it into an easy story.

Also, just because Kraft may be saying publicly that they're surprised by the ruling doesn't mean he actually is. There is also a PR battle to be won after all.
 

Tito's Pullover

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I have not heard anything about a change in the rules regarding how footballs are prepared and declared to be "legal".  Are we still going to have the narrow 1 PSI window (12.5-13.5) to determine football compliance?  It will be impossible for balls to stay within that window during cold weather games, even if they start out at the maximum 13.5.  Are we going to do this all over again the next time New England hosts a wintery game?
 

DJnVa

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
This isn't directed at you RO but my reply to this article is "So what?"

Its pretty clear from the mega thread that some Patriots fans and even La Canfora might be overestimating Kraft's standing in the league. Oooh, Kraft is mad...watch out.
 

There's an article linked somewhere in this thread or the other that quoted an unnamed NFL team exec that basically said the other owners were fearful of what Kraft may do because he's seen as one of the most powerful 3 or 4 owners.
 

uncannymanny

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There is no Rev said:
 
One thing not to lose sight of is that they only look bad if you believe any of this shit matters. That's the biggest assumption that the league and the media have slipped by many fans; if you relax that assumption, this is all pretty silly.
Oh without a doubt. The whole thing is a joke...at least to most people who don't really matter (media, fans). Unfortunately the one person who really does matter thinks it's the most egregious offense in the history of the NFL (I mean, think about that list for a second).
 

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Except that it didn't. See the Vikings/Panthers game and the Rodgers anecdote. Given the amount of attention paid to this "transgression" as well as the severity of the punishment, it doesn't take a huge leap to think this is the NFL sending a very specific message to the Patriots.
 
Add in the Chargers pine-tarring the ball with a towel. 
 
Goodell took a fair amount of criticism by those who felt he was too lenient on the Pats for Spygate. Getting a second bite of the apple, Goodell hammers home that the punishment is more about second offenses and not cooperating than it is about deflated footballs.
 
That's why we keeping hearing that whether it affected the outcome of the Colts game doesn't matter; the NFL knows that's a losing hand. It's not about cheating to win (within the league, not with fans) it's about general integrity.
 
Whether any of us agrees on those points isn't the issue here. Neither is nitpicking the Wells report to prove that it was a mess. The damage is done. Goodell and his team found a bigger bad to rail against after being humiliated by the league response to any number of social and legal issues. And the majority of the national media has followed along the trail.
 
He got exactly what he wanted out of this ... and unless something truly damning comes out in a legal process months from now (when everyone's just waiting for the season to start), the meter isn't going to flinch one bit
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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nighthob said:
Yeah, but I don't think that the owners regard this as a positive. It's like claiming the Rice fiasco as a positive because the NFL was dominating the news cycle. There are times when you'd prefer not to be dominating the news cycle, and if the Ginger Knish decides to hear this appeal himself and the whole matter ends up in federal court it will end up looking even worse.
This is not going to Federal court. If Brady didn't want to turn over his texts before - you think he will be happy doing so now?

Also, Bob Kraft is a pretty shrewd businessman. A court battle over this punishment would be very bad for business.
 

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Tito's Pullover said:
I have not heard anything about a change in the rules regarding how footballs are prepared and declared to be "legal".  Are we still going to have the narrow 1 PSI window (12.5-13.5) to determine football compliance?  It will be impossible for balls to stay within that window during cold weather games, even if they start out at the maximum 13.5.  Are we going to do this all over again the next time New England hosts a wintery game?
 
There really isn't a need to change anything though - the rule only says what the pre game measurement needs to be, not what the pressure needs to be during the games
 

tims4wins

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Is it really true the general public thinks Goodell went light on the Pats for Spygate, taking away their 1st round pick and fining the team $250K and BB an additional $500K? Wasn't that the most severe team punishment in NFL history to that point?
 
I do think it is true that the public was/is mad that Goodell burned the tapes (and in reality, the fans who should be most mad about this are Pats fans, since if the tapes still existed then we could shut up everyone who talked about taping illegal things). But I haven't read much about him letting the Pats off lightly. But I may be completely off base here..?
 

lexrageorge

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E5 Yaz said:
 
 
 
Goodell took a fair amount of criticism by those who felt he was too lenient on the Pats for Spygate. Getting a second bite of the apple, Goodell hammers home that the punishment is more about second offenses and not cooperating than it is about deflated footballs.
 
 
And this is what's really stupid.  Goodell was hardly lenient, and the people that were criticizing Goodell for the leniency were folks that didn't matter at all.  Fans and sponsors were not staying away in 2014 because of Spygate.  You cannot run a successful organization thinking this way.  
 

Is it really true the general public thinks Goodell went light on the Pats for Spygate, taking away their 1st round pick and fining the team $250K and BB an additional $500K? Wasn't that the most severe team punishment in NFL history to that point?
 
Not really.  Gregg Esterbrook or whatever his name is, Shank, and a couple of other media asshats would bring the Spygate punishment up from time to time.  But for nearly everyone else it was completely irrelevant.  Until Goodell made it relevant again. 
 

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tims4wins said:
 
There really isn't a need to change anything though - the rule only says what the pre game measurement needs to be, not what the pressure needs to be during the games
Sure - and the Patriots' balls were in compliance in the pregame measurement at the AFCCG, per Walt Anderson's testimony.
 
If they are measured and out of compliance during a future game, you don't think we're going to see DeflateGate II?
 

dcmissle

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lexrageorge said:
I'm sure Kraft may have had an inkling that he would have to pay a fine and at worst forfeit a mid-round pick.  That was the general consensus among SoSH'ers prior to the report's release.  To lose 2 draft picks, one a first rounder, and fork over $1M, for something this minor is truly unprecedented among all sports, never mind the NFL. 
Bob's good friend Jerry Jones (who was hosed by the NFL a few years ago) just publicly expressed his support for RG and RG's "fairness".

So Bob would be wise to anticipate a scenario where,

1. RG says he is impartial and will hear the appeal, and

2. Cuts the penalties. For example, reduces TB's suspension to 2 games; gives the Pats back their first-rounder, but takes their second-rounder.

That is the shrewd move here for a bunch of reasons, and there will be heavy pressure for Kraft to accept it and move on (recognizing that Brady is differently situated).

I do not believe that the recent statements by Eli Manning, John Elway and now Jerry Jones are accidental. In the main, they reflect owners, executives and players mostly siding with the League.
 

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lexrageorge said:
And this is what's really stupid.  Goodell was hardly lenient, and the people that were criticizing Goodell for the leniency were folks that didn't matter at all.  Fans and sponsors were not staying away in 2014 because of Spygate.  You cannot run a successful organization thinking this way.  
 
And yet ...
 
Feb 16, 2006
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Walpole
[SIZE=medium]The Wells report mentions “unwillingness to cooperate” as a key component of their decision,  but my sense in reading it is that there’s a larger emphasis on the high moral ground of “integrity of the game” and "taking any matters that have to do with competitive advantage very seriously”.    Obviously the below (which I had never seen so apologies if it was posted already in the mega thread)  falls under the “everyone else is doing it” excuse which doesn’t make it right or doesn’t make you less guilty – however my question for the legal guys here - Is an arbiter going to take issue with how obvious it was that enforcement was loose and lax loose and how that doesn't sync up at all with how harsh the punishment was?  The second link is the same version of the story but it's a more interesting headline  ;). [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12244290/ex-quarterback-jeff-blake-deflating-footballs-common[/SIZE]
 
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/01/needles_on_sidelines_former_jets_qb_jeff_blake_had.html
 

MarcSullivaFan

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
This is not going to Federal court. If Brady didn't want to turn over his texts before - you think he will be happy doing so now?

Also, Bob Kraft is a pretty shrewd businessman. A court battle over this punishment would be very bad for business.
If it went to federal court it would be on a petition to vacate the decision on Brady's appeal. There would likely be zero discovery and possibly no hearing whatsoever.
 

tims4wins

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dcmissle said:
I do not believe that the recent statements by Eli Manning, John Elway and now Jerry Jones are accidental. In the main, they reflect owners, executives and players mostly siding with the League.
 
But what are they supposed to say - the commish is off his rocker, these penalties are totally screwed up? If they said that then they are now on Sheriff Rog's naughty list, and we all know what happens when that happens.
 
If an owner or GM is going to side against Goodell, it has to be behind closed doors.
 

nighthob

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
This is not going to Federal court. If Brady didn't want to turn over his texts before - you think he will be happy doing so now?
Under court seal? Probably. Because I sincerely doubt the court will be looking at texts sent to cousins, friends, people he and Giselle met while on holiday in Costa Rica, etc.. I think his understandable reluctance was more directed at the NFL's chosen inquisitors on their witch hunt. Brady isn't paying millions of dollars to have his place in league history destroyed by an angry former competitor, a former Jets' employee, and a boob.
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Also, Bob Kraft is a pretty shrewd businessman. A court battle over this punishment would be very bad for business.
I'm not certain what this has to do with Brady. Kraft, as far as I know, has little recourse except the path that he's almost certain to take, which is to switch sides and make Goodell's support even more precarious. I mean Goodell's new cornermen are Woody and Woodier, who may be the least respected owners in the game.
 

E5 Yaz

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tims4wins said:
 
But what are they supposed to say - the commish is off his rocker, these penalties are totally screwed up? If they said that then they are now on Sheriff Rog's naughty list, and we all know what happens when that happens.
 
If an owner or GM is going to side against Goodell, it has to be behind closed doors.
 
Which is why if Kraft wants to go "scorched earth," he'll be out there by himself.
 
It's a win-win for every other team: Either Goodell or the Patriots get cut down to size
 

djbayko

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RedOctober3829 said:
Another way to look at this is that Kraft is going to fight this tooth and nail to send his own message to the league.  That message is that the other owners better watch out because this could just as easily have happened to you too.
Except it couldn't happen to any other team, and they know it. The Broncos got a $50k fine for their own "Spygate"...after the Patriots Spygate.

The message this sends to the rest of the league is "don't be the Patriots". What if down the road a team becomes just as successful and equally reviled? Well, that's a problem they'd love to have and will deal with it then.
 

dcmissle

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tims4wins said:
 
But what are they supposed to say - the commish is off his rocker, these penalties are totally screwed up? If they said that then they are now on Sheriff Rog's naughty list, and we all know what happens when that happens.
 
If an owner or GM is going to side against Goodell, it has to be behind closed doors.
It is perfectly fine to say nothing. Jones and Kraft are tight. Jones' public statement strikes me as a signal -- get on board and let's get this behind us.
 

EL Jeffe

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MarcSullivaFan said:
If it went to federal court it would be on a petition to vacate the decision on Brady's appeal. There would likely be zero discovery and possibly no hearing whatsoever.
This is where I am. Are we sure he'd even have to turn over his phone? The suspension letter doesn't indicate x amount of games for the "deflating" and x amount of games for failure to cooperate. Based on the Rice and AP court rulings, I could see the judge tossing out the entire suspension for a lack of evidence in the Wells report.
 
(If only there were lawyers in this thread to discuss this point...)
 

kartvelo

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Guapos Toenails said:
To me, this is the Occam's Razor explanation that seems as obvious and logical as the sun rising in the east. 
Unless, of course, you're aware that there's no actual evidence that the balls were in any condition other than exactly the condition you'd expect them to be in.
In which case, Occam's Razor flips to: nothing to see here.
 

troparra

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E5 Yaz said:
 
Goodell took a fair amount of criticism by those who felt he was too lenient on the Pats for Spygate. Getting a second bite of the apple, Goodell hammers home that the punishment is more about second offenses and not cooperating than it is about deflated footballs.
 
 
This is crazy, inasmuch as a second offense may not have actually happened.  So next year, when the Jets complain about some way or other that Belichick is cheating, the league investigates, and then they move the team to London as punishment for a THIRD offense?
 

lexrageorge

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Eli Manning's statement was carefully worded to avoid any potential disciplinary action being brought down on him from the league (he probably could be fined if he outright criticized the suspension).  Maybe he could have said less, but if anything he maintains neutrality on the entire issue in front of the biggest media circus market that he has to face on a daily basis. 
 
I do agree that it's better for the owners in general if the appeals are handled entirely by the NFL, or, in the case of Brady's appeal, by an independent arbiter, as opposed to the courts, where things can take unexpected turns.  Any comments made by guys like Elway and Jones likely reflect that viewpoint.  Personally, as a fan, I'd rather see Brady sit a game, the Pats lose a single 2nd round pick, and have the problem go away versus seeing this go to the courts.