#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Harry Hooper]

 
 
But, then again, these are grown men who text about circle jerks (urban dictionary "pong party") so pretty much any sort of nickname is on the table here. 

 
In addition to the difficulty of an outsider interpreting what intimates are texting each other, there's the added confounding factor of autocorrect on cellphones perhaps altering some of the key words.

 

[lexrageorge]

Do you still believe this despite the fact that simple science and math indicate that no tampering was likely?

Well, you know, reading the Wells report and the rebuttal and understanding them is a lot of work.  Much easier just to say that "Wells and Goodell say Brady is guilty, and so he must be guilty, especially since he plays for the Patriots.".  

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

Peoples just like the word "Tainted"

I bring up A-Rod, Clemens, Giambi, Pettitte and the rest of the Skankee culture of cheating.

I remind them of Monday after the awe inspiring Victory how perfectly quiet it was in the office except for ME!!!!

 

[Harry Hooper]

Lol
@mikefreemanNFL: NFL source: Roger Goodell will hear Tom Bradys appeal. Yes, the commissioner will hear it. More on this story soon.

 
I bet the Pats learned this yesterday. Hence the rebuttal assault today.

 

[LuckyBen]

Lol
@mikefreemanNFL: NFL source: Roger Goodell will hear Tom Bradys appeal. Yes, the commissioner will hear it. More on this story soon.

I still think he comes in like a big shot and knocks it down two games and then Brady still hands him his ass on a plate.

 

[crystalline]

I'm still scratching my head as to its purpose. I postulated that it might be a big vent so that the League doesn't fuck with the Pats again anytime soon ( And likely this is Ted Wells' investigation gig for the NFL). Shelter thinks it was to convince the other owners that Bob is now batshit crazy so that they will persuade Roger to press the reset button.

But honestly, I don't see what good it has accomplished, and I can't help thinking that the Pats may wake up tomorrow feeling like the husband or boyfriend who was driven beyond the brink and then banged the hottest Dennys waitress he could find.

Kraft could have used this stuff in private first to get some relief. Or just given it to team Brady if the Pats decline to pursue an appeal ( which now seems likely).

Fans of 44 states and the District of Columbia are beyond persuading, most of the other 31 owners are unhappy , and RG remains unmoved.

Myt1 explained the purpose.

Over the long term, a detailed rebuttal will influence public opinion towards the Pats. Everyone is a hater now, but these detailed arguments will move the needle on public opinion much more than if the Pats did not formulate a public response.

 

[jablo1312]

That's a fucking joke, right? He really does not give a fuck.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Oh, for fuck's sake. What an assclown.

 

[86spike]

Suppose it is bullshit. What about those texts provides any evidence at all that any balls were ever deflated after referee approval, or that anyone (including TB) wanted them below 12.5?

There is no bald-faced direct tie to Brady. Agreed.

However, and I know most of you do not find this theory compelling and I don't expect to win anyone over here, I personally believe that nothing happens to those footballs without Tom Brady's blessing. I have heard nothing from anyone connected to the NFL claiming that balls would ever be adjusted in any way without QB approval.

That's the connection to Brady.

That said, I do not think that connection is strong enough or the other findings in the report showed enough proof to generate the harsh punishment.

 

[dcmissle]

Entirely predictable. And he's going to call TB to the principal's office too.

Eventually, off to court we go.

 

[sodenj5]

Lol
@mikefreemanNFL: NFL source: Roger Goodell will hear Tom Bradys appeal. Yes, the commissioner will hear it. More on this story soon.

There goes any hope of it getting whittled down.

 

[Sportsbstn]

Lol
@mikefreemanNFL: NFL source: Roger Goodell will hear Tom Bradys appeal. Yes, the commissioner will hear it. More on this story soon.

 
The odds on Brady suing the NFL just went way up.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I would not rule out the possibility that there will be further punishment of the Pats for their website fiasco today.  It was far outside the bounds set by the NFL by-laws, and most of the other 31 owners are probably upset that Kraft has gone public with his complaints.   Roger might well decide that it is time to bring the hammer down once again, just to make the point that you don't challenge his authority, at least not in public.   If so, then kiss the 2017 first round pick goodbye.

I think that Goodell would like nothing better than to go after Kraft for this... but I also think even he knows it would boomerang.  
 
It would either lend credibility to the Patriots' version of events or it would convince people that Goodell is a bitter, spiteful, asshole.  Or both.  Either way, bad for Goodell.
 
I still don't think Kraft has the power to pull down Goodell, but the Pats' rebuttal almost seems like a dare - trying to push him into going too far.
 
Edit: With word that Goodell is going to hear Brady's appeal, I now wonder if the whole point of wellsreportcontext was just to piss him off.  

 

[Myt1]

That's waaaaaaay better.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

They poked the bear with the rebuttal today.

 

[Ed Hillel]

There goes any hope of it getting whittled down.

 
It will get whittled down, it will just take longer and get even uglier. I'm not sure how this is smart at all by Goodell, because he's going to the one trying to avoid turning over cell phone records and emails before all is said and done.

 

[LuckyBen]

There goes any hope of it getting whittled down.

Until it goes to a higher court.

 

[86spike]

I still think he comes in like a big shot and knocks it down two games and then Brady still hands him his ass on a plate.

That was one of the first things I thought of when the 4 games were announced. Roger has set himself up to be magnanimous and will slash the suspension and declare himself Benevolent Dictator of the year.

 

[dcmissle]

There goes any hope of it getting whittled down.

Not quite. He will take it to court, like AP did.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

I think that Goodell would like nothing better than to go after Kraft for this... but I also think even he knows it would boomerang.  
 
It would either lend credibility to the Patriots' version of events or it would convince people that Goodell is a bitter, spiteful, asshole.  Or both.  Either way, bad for Goodell.
 
I still don't think Kraft has the power to pull down Goodell, but the Pats' rebuttal almost seems like a dare - trying to push him into going too far.

 
I think it's exactly this. Kraft needs a way to get this outside the confines of the league office.

 

[LuckyBen]

They poked the bear with the rebuttal today.

What's the worst he does, say no it won't be overturned? Because it will sooner or later.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Not quite. He will take it to court, like AP did.

 
Will the process play out in time though? 

 

[dcmissle]

That was one of the first things I thought of when the 4 games were announced. Roger has set himself up to be magnanimous and will slash the suspension and declare himself Benevolent Dictator of the year.

I think he was prepared to cut the Oats' penalty a bit too. Say a second-rounder instead of a first. A fifth-rounder instead of a fourth. Until this morning ...

 

[Sportsbstn]

 
It will get whittled down, it will just take longer and get even uglier. I'm not sure how this is smart at all by Goodell, because he's going to the one trying to avoid turning over cell phone records and emails before all is said and done.

 
Yep, if Brady sues, we likely are going to find out it was a sting operation and exactly who was involved.   At this point, screw the 1-2 game reduction, I am hoping that Brady comes right after the league.   Goodell's testimony in the Ray Rice case was utterly embarrassing and its likely he would fare just as poorly here.  Brady should not settle.

 

[kartvelo]

There's something you learn early on in practicing law that differs somewhat from what you are taught in law school, and that is how to frame your case. In law school, the name of the game is usually issue spotting, and just machine-gunning any and every plausible argument you can make. In legal practice, you weigh what arguments are best, and consider the effect on your credibility a shitty argument will have tacked on to the end of a motion for SJ. Don't gild the lily.

I dunno. The Patriots today went the law school route of just throwing everything at the wall without considering the cumulative impact. They should have made three concise arguments and waited to see what, if any, the counterpunch would have been. They went for a knockout punch and left themselves exposed on credibility.

They responded to every point made in the Wells report. We don't know what else they still might have in reserve.

 

[jablo1312]

 
Will the process play out in time though? 

 
Appeal will be within 10 days. How long does the court process take from there- 3-4 months? From my recollection it took both Rice and AP about 3 months to get things resolved. No memory of how long it took Vilma to get his rescinded.

 

[dcmissle]

 
Will the process play out in time though? 

Oh, he will get a ruling. He'll ask for a TRO and preliminary injunction, and we will have a ruling on that easily within a few months. If not a final decision on the merits

 

[LuckyBen]

I think he was prepared to cut the Oats' penalty a bit too. Say a second-rounder instead of a first. A fifth-rounder instead of a fourth. Until this morning ...

Absolutely, no way was he ever going to change the draft picks. Kraft knows more than anyone on this board and is probably aware of the uphill battle he faced. This was his FU to Goodell and nothing more.

 

[Corsi]

edit: covered already 

 

[Super Nomario]

Do you still believe this despite the fact that simple science and math indicate that no tampering was likely?

I'm not sure I'd go this far. What's fair to say is that there is a reasonable set of assumptions which the Wells report uses that suggest the halftime conditions of some of the balls can't be explained by normal physics, and another reasonable set of assumptions where the majority of them can be.
 

There is no bald-faced direct tie to Brady. Agreed.

However, and I know most of you do not find this theory compelling and I don't expect to win anyone over here, I personally believe that nothing happens to those footballs without Tom Brady's blessing. I have heard nothing from anyone connected to the NFL claiming that balls would ever be adjusted in any way without QB approval.

That's the connection to Brady.

I also find it unlikely that Tweedly Dumb and Tweedly Dee struck out on their own, but I don't think "Come on, he had to have known!" is an appropriate standard of evidence for this sort of punishment.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

 
It will get whittled down, it will just take longer and get even uglier. I'm not sure how this is smart at all by Goodell, because he's going to the one trying to avoid turning over cell phone records and emails before all is said and done.

Doubtful. If Brady seeks to vacate Goodell's decision it will be a limited review and there's not going to be much, if any, discovery.

If he files some sort of Hail Mary defamation claim, then maybe. But good luck surviving a motion to dismiss.

This is really bad for Brady. Best chance of getting it knocked down or eliminated was a neutral. A petition to vacate is always a long shot.

 

[nattysez]

I'm still scratching my head as to its purpose. I postulated that it might be a big vent so that the League doesn't fuck with the Pats again anytime soon ( And likely this is Ted Wells' last investigation gig for the NFL). Shelter thinks it was to convince the other owners that Bob is now batshit crazy so that they will persuade Roger to press the reset button.

But honestly, I don't see what good it has accomplished, and I can't help thinking that the Pats may wake up tomorrow feeling like the husband or boyfriend who was driven beyond the brink and then banged the hottest Dennys waitress he could find.

Kraft could have used this stuff in private first to get some relief. Or just given it to team Brady if the Pats decline to pursue an appeal ( which now seems likely).

This reads to me like what happens when a lawyer is forced to do something by his enraged client. The ALL CAPS, the explanation for the deflator nickname, the freaking standalone website, all smell like what a really, really ticked off client would order his lawyer to arrange/prepare. And if you have given your client at least two shots to rethink what he's asked you to do and have been told in no uncertain terms to do what he says and stop being a pantywaist, you suck it up and do it (or quit the case and give up a high-profile and lucrative client).

Frankly, it is evocative of the Al Davis "overhead projector" press conference: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3618813

 

[Ed Hillel]

Looks like we have an answer to the deflate that jacket text:

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/14/8609329/what-is-this-deflate-that-you-speak-of

 

[LuckyBen]

Doubtful. If Brady seeks to vacate Goodell's decision it will be a limited review and there's not going to be much, if any, discovery.

If he files some sort of Hail Mary defamation claim, then maybe. But good luck surviving a motion to dismiss.

This is really bad for Brady. Best chance of getting it knocked down or eliminated was a neutral. A petition to vacate is always a long shot.

Why did it work for Rice and Peterson?

 

[DJnVa]

Look, the NFL fucked the Patriots a thousand different ways on this from start to finish, but it was all, almost certainly, set up by the Patriots doing something with the balls.  

 
Despite the fact that SCIENCE! says it could have been nothing?
 
Despite that fact that there IS NOT ONE text referencing Brady wanting balls below the 12.5?

 

[kartvelo]

There is no bald-faced direct tie to Brady. Agreed.

However, and I know most of you do not find this theory compelling and I don't expect to win anyone over here, I personally believe that nothing happens to those footballs without Tom Brady's blessing. I have heard nothing from anyone connected to the NFL claiming that balls would ever be adjusted in any way without QB approval.

That's the connection to Brady.

That said, I do not think that connection is strong enough or the other findings in the report showed enough proof to generate the harsh punishment.

However, nothing happened to the balls.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

If Goodell has it in him to be Machiavellian, he will nullify Brady's suspension and pin the whole thing on the Pats.  

 

[dcmissle]

Absolutely, no way was he ever going to change the draft picks. Kraft knows more than anyone on this board and is probably aware of the uphill battle he faced. This was his FU to Goodell and nothing more.

I thought it would have been smart of him to ease up on the pedal on both the team and TB, to show the world he can be fair (and undercut Tom's court case).

And spare the preaching on how much Bob Kraft knows. This is the same Kraft who ran to RG's assistance when the Commish was on the ropes in the Ray Rice case.

You know that was just a few months ago. Talk about misjudging a man.

 

[Shelterdog]

I thought it would have been smart of him to ease up on the pedal on both the team and TB, to show the world he can be fair (and undercut Tom's court case).

And spare the preaching on how much Bob Kraft knows. This is the same Kraft who ran to RG's assistance when the Commish was on the ropes in the Ray Rice case.

You know that was just a few months ago. Talk about misjudging a man.

 
Just because Kraft publicly supported RG doesn't mean he actually thought RG was a good guy or good at his job.  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, maybe he was just taking a hit for the good of the league because that schmuck of a commissioner fucked up the ray rice case.

 

[DJnVa]

I love that Goodell is hearing this thing (if that rumor actually bears out). Kessler will have his head spinning. This thing will end with Goodell suspending Andrew Luck.

 

[dstunbound]

Roger Goodell invokes his right under CBA to preside over Tom Brady appeal, per souce, as @mikefreemanNFL first reported

 

[Harry Hooper]

Looks like we have an answer to the deflate that jacket text:

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/14/8609329/what-is-this-deflate-that-you-speak-of

 
 
Solved for less than $2+ million. It sure reads like a joke about JJ looking fat/pumped up in that jacket.

 

[LuckyBen]

I thought it would have been smart of him to ease up on the pedal on both the team and TB, to show the world he can be fair (and undercut Tom's court case).

And spare the preaching on how much Bob Kraft knows. This is the same Kraft who ran to RG's assistance when the Commish was on the ropes in the Ray Rice case.

You know that was just a few months ago. Talk about misjudging a man.

You lost me at Goodell and smart. Kraft made a mistake, no doubt. It was all about damage control and he picked the wrong side. It's unbelievable to look back at the Rice situation and find reason, much like Dorito dink gate.

 

[DJnVa]

Looks like we have an answer to the deflate that jacket text:
 
 
http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/14/8609329/what-is-this-deflate-that-you-speak-of

 
 
 

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Seems like a great way to endear the league to whatever federal judge hears the eventual appeal!

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
Just because Kraft publicly supported RG doesn't mean he actually thought RG was a good guy or good at his job.  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, maybe he was just taking a hit for the good of the league because that schmuck of a commissioner fucked up the ray rice case.

 
Kraft set up the Commish's whole "comeback" strategy and set up the CBS interview with Norah O'Donnell.

 

[kartvelo]

I'm not sure I'd go this far. What's fair to say is that there is a reasonable set of assumptions which the Wells report uses that suggest the halftime conditions of some of the balls can't be explained by normal physics, and another reasonable set of assumptions where the majority of them can be.
 
I also find it unlikely that Tweedly Dumb and Tweedly Dee struck out on their own, but I don't think "Come on, he had to have known!" is an appropriate standard of evidence for this sort of punishment.

Those "reasonable" assumptions require them saying, with no justification, that some of Walt Anderson's recollections are unassailable and some are to be ignored. In fact, they had to bully him into saying it was "possible" he was wrong about the one recollection they needed him to be wrong about - and that's as far as they could get.

 

[PseuFighter]

a huge part of me hopes brady beats the crap out of goodell at the hearing. ala bret on vince montreal locker room.

 

[jsinger121]

Brady vs NFL 2.0

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Kraft set up the Commish's whole "comeback" strategy and set up the CBS interview with Norah O'Donnell.

 
Sure.  Do you think he liked having to run damage control? For fuck's sake it's Goodell's goddamn job to run damage control for the league and the owners, not the other way around.