#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[JeffLedbetter]

It is funny that the media and ESPN while talking about this stupidity blames someone else for the fact that the media is talking about this stupidity.

I heard the Herm Edwards conversation on M&M as well this morning. They kept piling on about why the Patriots had so much to say at the beginning, which they said was so uncharacteristic of them. I wanted to jump through the windshield ... "It's because the LEAGUE kept leaking information and they had to get past this to prepare for the SUPER BOWL!" 
 
The other thing they kept harping on was that the NFLPA has no leg to stand on -- this was with Steven Smith  bit earlier (what a complete idiot BTW) -- because in the CBA they never fought Goodell being the ultimate judge for discipline. There's just nowhere beyond optics and the superficial that the media is capable of going. In any legitimate, professional standard setting or disciplinary process, there HAS to be one body for the equivalent of a trial and a different body for the appeal. It is part of the bedrock for due process. Goodell is going to claim that Vincent handed down the discipline, which is separate from himself, so he is capable of providing a fair appeal. He relinquishes this power and someone with real independence looks at the Wells Report -- in particular the two gauges -- and the suspension evaporates ... Goodell can't let that happen. That's why I think the NFLPA suggesting that Goodell can't hear the appeal was the best chess move yet -- not "check mate," but at least "check" -- because when this goes to court after that, Brady's team is going to tear the NFL apart. "So, Mr. Goodell, what precedent or standards are you relying on to oversee a process that suggests or states that sufficient independence exists by a subordinate to hand down sanctions in such a manner that his supervisor then can independently judge and rule on an appeal?" "Further, Mr. Goodell, are we supposed to believe that you played no role in the initial discipline, that the commissioner of football had no oversight or collaboration in handing down the single most punitive punishment on an NFL team and a four-game suspension for one of the most successful players in league history?" "Finally, Mr. Goodell, you felt no need to recuse yourself from the appeals proceedings after learning that the NFPLA intended to call you as a witness?"

 

[joe dokes]

Volin removed the incorrect info about Doty in the on-line version. No mention of the correction.  Very little pisses me off more than flushing obvious errors down the memory hole like that.

 

[lexrageorge]

 
Yep, have seen this one before.  My first point is, even here, there is no explicit prohibition against "taping defensive signals".  (In fact, interestingly, this rule would appear to explicitly authorize taking Polaroid photos of defensive signals.  But I digress.)  Again, though, there is nothing in this text to support Goodell's creation of a specific prohibition on taping defensive signals as was described in that Ray Anderson pre-season memo.
 
Secondly, as was pointed out in that Sheaffer piece from 2009, Article IX contradicts other well-established NFL rules and procedures that explicitly authorize videotaping/filming during a game.   As Sheaffer explains, the NFL reconciles the apparent contradiction by interpreting Article IX to mean that teams can film during games, but they can only use the recordings between games, not during them.  Belichick conducted his videotaping operations consistently with this interpretation.  I don't believe any evidence has ever been presented nor even any allegation made that Belichick was using the videotapes during the same game to gain an advantage.
 
 
Yep, this is the rule Belichick was (rightfullly) busted for.  No argument there.   However, I will re-emphasize: nothing in this policy makes any reference to "taping defensive signals", or creates any prohibiton or restriction on the content or subject of videotaping activities.  The only restrictions included here pertain to locations where video recording may be performed.
 
 
This was what I was looking for, as it would appear to be the specific language that authorizes the Commissioner to make new stuff up ("establish policy and procedure").  I am curious, though, what sort of limitations or restrictions apply to this power.  What does "in respect to the provisions of the Constitution and Bylaws" actually mean?  When does a rule change cross the line from something the Commissioner can just arbitrarily decide, versus something that must be agreed to and voted on by member teams?

 
The prohibition against use of videotaping from the sidelines is the rule that Belichick broke.  It's there in the Bylaws.  It didn't matter if he was taping defensive signals, the opposing coach's facial hair, or the pylons.  Technically, any of those actions were disallowed.  You are correct that the Game Operations Manual did allow for the operation of video equipment by the teams.  So the 2007 update to the manual delineated those facilities where the operation of video equipment was allowed (enclosed area with roof, etc.).  
 
Naturally, Belichick does get accused for "taping defensive signals".  The reason why is that is what he was actually doing from the sideline.  Had he been taping the pylons, he could still have been punished.  
 
The memo from the Commissioner's office essentially highlighted the change to the Game Operations Manual, which itself was a clarification of the applicable bylaw.  Bottom line:  if there is some ambiguity on the way a rule or bylaw is written, the Commissioner is going to have the ability to provide a clarifying interpretation.  It was not up to Belichick to decide that the statements in the memo had no governing authority.  And, lest you think this is unique to Goodell and the NFL, consider the following section from the NBA's Bylaws:
 
 

The Commissioner shall interpret and from time to time establish policy and procedure in respect to the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws, rules, regulations, resolutions, and agreements of the Association and any enforcement thereof, and any decision emanating therefrom shall be final, binding, conclusive, and unappealable.

 
From MLB Bylaws:
 
 

The functions of the Commissioner shall include....To make decisions, or to designate an officer of the Commissioner’s Office to make decisions, regarding on-field discipline, playing rule interpretations, game protests and any other matter within the responsibility of the League Presidents prior to 2000.

 
From NHL's Bylaws:
 
 

The Commissioner shall have the authority to interpret, and from time to time establish policies and procedures regarding, the provisions of the Constitution, the By-Laws, and League rules and resolutions, and their application and enforcement.  Any determination made by the Commissioner with respect to any such matter shall be final and binding and shall not be subject to any review. 

 

[RedOctober3829]

The lawyer that Volin interviewed about Brady's chances in federal court was on Toucher and Rich this morning.  In the paper, she said that Brady's chances in court were slim because of the CBA.  But, Volin never asked her about the Adrian Peterson case which she said this morning changed her mind after reading it.  Great job by Volin to shape the interview to his views.  What a hack.  

 

[m0ckduck]

 
Yes. that almost made me drive off the road. The Patriots kept this in the news?
 
Not one mention that I heard about the Mortensen tweet that blew this all up. Completely disingenuous.
 
By the way, after their claim that they didn't keep this in the news, I turned the radio off. Fifteen minutes later I turned it back on and the first word I heard was "Patriots".
 

 
If you believe instinctually that the Pats are guilty of something, and/or that the team is dealing with a sane, fair ruling entity in the form of the NFL, then it's fairly easy to lazily arrive at the conclusion that 'they keep hurting themselves' by continuing to protest their innocence. Most of the takes I've read about how they should have done such-and-such differently start from this blinkered perspective and never get out of the garage.  

 

[OnWisc]

Especially after being given an opportunity to come clean. Brady has to have seen how much Braun/Armstrong/Rose permanently shredded their reputations by admitting wrong doing after long denials. 

Rose's reputation was shredded long before he admitted betting on baseball, Braun lobbed accusations of anti-semitism against someone he knew to be innocent, and Armstrong held himself up as a paragon of hard work to promote his foundation to the extent that he was a spokesman first and an athlete second- with the reverbations of any cheating to be felt far beyond his trophy room. The actions of even a guilty Brady are a far cry from any of these guys.

That said, if it turns out that Brady is guilty, he's done enough as far a asserting his innocence both to the public and to Kraft, that his reputation as a person will take a well-deserved hit.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Florio calling the Wells investigation incompetent:

"Apart from whether Wells agreed to have only one bite out of each apple (which is an extremely common reality in all forms of litigation), the fact that Wells and company flat-out missed two key text messages in which McNally uses the term deflator and deflate speaks to a lack of competence that the NFL should regard as troubling. Any first-year practicing lawyer knows that, before conducting a major interview in any case, its critical to know everything about the person being interviewed.

When documents are available to be reviewed before the interview, the task is simple: Review every single one of them. Twice. When a lawyer is being paid by the hour, theres no incentive to skip steps and theres no incentive to rush through the process of putting eyes on each word appearing on every sheet of paper.

Even if Wells and company somehow missed the documents (which is embarrassing in and of itself), they easily could have done a text search for any words or partial words of interest (like deflat-) to pull up any overlooked documents. Regardless, the failure to spot those critical text messages before the first official interview with McNally would be regarded by many lawyers as malpractice."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/nfl-leaks-disagreement-with-patriots-on-circumstances-for-re-interviewing-witnesses/

 

[Van Everyman]

The lawyer that Volin interviewed about Brady's chances in federal court was on Toucher and Rich this morning.  In the paper, she said that Brady's chances in court were slim because of the CBA.  But, Volin never asked her about the Adrian Peterson case which she said this morning changed her mind after reading it.  Great job by Volin to shape the interview to his views.  What a hack.  

I think it's more likely that Volin, like most reporters, has limited knowledge of this whole process and is relying on outside counsel for expertise. Ben hasn't been at his best during this whole episode but it's not exactly an easy needle to thread either.

 

[mulluysavage]

The most likely where the Pats are guilty is one where TB is not taking enough responsibility; that he's blind to it.
 
As others have stated, there's a believeable scenario where TB is quite vocal about how he likes footballs, and this puts pressure (pun intended) on staff, either intentionally or unintentionally. He could be undersetimating of the magnitude of the power dynamic involved between him and the staff, while also not directly supervising how it gets done. Jastremsky and McNally do what they think needs to be done - in poor judgement, sometimes sloppily, and sometimes against the (fuzzy) rules.
 
 
Perhaps TB, BB, and RK, should all take more responsibility for not being more in-control of their organization. TB's domain is the preparation of footballs, so he would be the main offender in this regard. The denial of responsibility could be the 'culture of cheating' that's been cited, the thing that is really angering RG and the rest of the league in this case - and also with regard to BB's attitude on Spygate.
 
Given these assumptions, I still think the penalty is waaaay out of line, as is the handling of the whole affair. I feel that a tack where RG speaks to the Pats and says, hey, you got to get your shit together, the other teams are clamoring for you to clean up your act, I'm going to be left with fewer and fewer choices if you don't - would be much more effective in getting TB/Pats to take responsibility.
 
Instead, I think you have digging in of heels - TB/Pats certainly feel they aren't offenders of a 4 game suspension/$1m/1st rounder magnitude, and rightly so.

 

[tims4wins]

Still catching up from the weekend but Florio really nailed it with his closing paragraph. Need more national outlets to pick up on this point:

Really, what has done more in recent months to erode public confidence in the game of professional football whatever it is that the Patriots did or didnt do in blowing out the Colts on January 18, or the endless three-ring circus that has emerged as fans debate the various flaws in a process that, if the league has its way, will never be decided by a truly independent and unbiased party?

 

[Otis Foster]

I think it's more likely that Volin, like most reporters, has limited knowledge of this whole process and is relying on outside counsel for expertise. Ben hasn't been at his best during this whole episode but it's not exactly an easy needle to thread either.

 
Well played, Van Everyman

 

[EL Jeffe]

If they did it (and at this point I find it more probable than not that they did not), it would seem that on average they were deflating balls to be about 12.2 psi*. I cannot imagine there is a human being alive who could tell the difference between a 12.5 psi football and a 12.2 psi football. Not Mark Brunell, not Troy Aikman, and not Tom Brady. That fact alone leads me to believe that they did not tamper with the footballs in the AFCC. I believe Walt Anderson's recollection that the footballs were set to 12.5 psi, so I cannot envision a scenario where the NEP - even the Tweedles - felt compelled to go take, on average, 0.3. psi out of the footballs. That just doesn't make any kind of sense to me. Is it possible? I suppose. But it's just so unlikely that I can't believe it happened.
 
*As best as I can tell. I am neither a lawyer not a physicist. 

 

[Otis Foster]

I heard the Herm Edwards conversation on M&M as well this morning. They kept piling on about why the Patriots had so much to say at the beginning, which they said was so uncharacteristic of them. I wanted to jump through the windshield ... "It's because the LEAGUE kept leaking information and they had to get past this to prepare for the SUPER BOWL!" 
 
The other thing they kept harping on was that the NFLPA has no leg to stand on -- this was with Steven Smith  bit earlier (what a complete idiot BTW) -- because in the CBA they never fought Goodell being the ultimate judge for discipline. There's just nowhere beyond optics and the superficial that the media is capable of going. In any legitimate, professional standard setting or disciplinary process, there HAS to be one body for the equivalent of a trial and a different body for the appeal. It is part of the bedrock for due process. Goodell is going to claim that Vincent handed down the discipline, which is separate from himself, so he is capable of providing a fair appeal. He relinquishes this power and someone with real independence looks at the Wells Report -- in particular the two gauges -- and the suspension evaporates ... Goodell can't let that happen. That's why I think the NFLPA suggesting that Goodell can't hear the appeal was the best chess move yet -- not "check mate," but at least "check" -- because when this goes to court after that, Brady's team is going to tear the NFL apart. "So, Mr. Goodell, what precedent or standards are you relying on to oversee a process that suggests or states that sufficient independence exists by a subordinate to hand down sanctions in such a manner that his supervisor then can independently judge and rule on an appeal?" "Further, Mr. Goodell, are we supposed to believe that you played no role in the initial discipline, that the commissioner of football had no oversight or collaboration in handing down the single most punitive punishment on an NFL team and a four-game suspension for one of the most successful players in league history?" "Finally, Mr. Goodell, you felt no need to recuse yourself from the appeals proceedings after learning that the NFPLA intended to call you as a witness?"

 
I've posed this to DCmissile before - the law generally disfavors an absolute and nonreviewable grant of discretion to one party to an agreement. DCM's response was that this was a transaction among billionaires, and that would lead a court to be less inclined to jump in to protect a plaintiff. I think that could be a factor but not dispositive of the issue. As noted in that thread, the law usually implies a covenant of good faith and fair dealing even where there is a purported grant of absolute authority. It all may come down to how the court views the NFL's bizarre behavior in this case. Unfortunately, it seems to me that the alleged lack of cooperation may cloud matters.
 
Once they get past the process issue - if they do -  it will be interesting to see if that becomes a factor here.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

 
 
He's an ex-Patriots coach.

 
Was there any reported animosity when he was let go?  IIRC he took a bit of a beating because some of the defenses he presided over were soft/bad, but I don't recall him getting the ol' Boston media shiv to the back on the way to the unemployment line.

 

[tims4wins]

Florio on fire:

Edit: with all the negative press by Florio between January 18 and mid-April, it is stunning to believe he may now be the Pats' chief advocate from a national perspective. It gives me a (small) renewed faith in humanity. And the moral of the story is that if you actually take the time to understand the issue, you will realize what a sham it is. The problem (as we have been saying ad nauseum) is that 95%+ of the media and 99%+ of fans simply won't take the time to do so.

So heres the bigger question the NFL surely wont be asking itself as it processes the failure of Ted Wells and his team to find two of the most critical text messages before their first interview of the most critical witness in the case: If Wells missed seeing such obvious and important documents, what else has he missed?

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
I've posed this to DCmissile before - the law generally disfavors an absolute and nonreviewable grant of discretion to one party to an agreement. DCM's response was that this was a transaction among billionaires, and that would lead a court to be less inclined to jump in to protect a plaintiff. I think that could be a factor but not dispositive of the issue. As noted in that thread, the law usually implies a covenant of good faith and fair dealing even where there is a purported grant of absolute authority. It all may come down to how the court views the NFL's bizarre behavior in this case. Unfortunately, it seems to me that the alleged lack of cooperation may cloud matters.
 
Once they get past the process issue - if they do -  it will be interesting to see if that becomes a factor here.

 
That's one issue, but how is the league going to deal with a defamation suit based on the leaking of false information regarding the PSI levels of the footballs, exacerbated by a failure to correct the mistake and at least one official private letter to the Patriots that stated the footballs were actually even lower than the false leaked information?
 
I think this is the biggest card Kraft will hold over the owners at the meetings. Fix this process immediately, and allow us a neutral hearing, or I will sue, for the best interests of everybody.

 

[jsinger121]

Kraft should walk into the owner's meeting in a white Patriots warmup suit with sun glasses.

 

[pappymojo]

Tinfoil hat time. Is it possible that the Patriots requested the balls at 12.5 but that the officials set them to a higher reading anyways and that this in turn emboldened McNally to deflate them?

So in effect the NFL knows the Patriots deflated the balls but is being dishonest about the pregame readings and the Patriots know that the NFL is lying even though the Patriots broke the rules?

 

[tims4wins]

Tinfoil hat time. Is it possible that the Patriots requested the balls at 12.5 but that the officials set them to a higher reading anyways and that this in turn emboldened McNally to deflate them?

So in effect the NFL knows the Patriots deflated the balls but is being dishonest about the pregame readings and the Patriots know that the NFL is lying even though the Patriots broke the rules?

That is as believable as any other reason to deflate especially since they didn't record psi pre game. But that being said, I still think it is highly unlikely anything was done to the balls given what we know about the security footage, McNally's first voluntary interview without the Pats knowing he even interviewed (or being present), etc.

Edit: especially in lieu of what has been reported about the 16 psi Jets game

 

[lambeau]

Goodell wants to talk with McNally and Jastremski.. Any reason to think they would agree to that? Aren't their NFL careers over?

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Tinfoil hat time. Is it possible that the Patriots requested the balls at 12.5 but that the officials set them to a higher reading anyways...

The Wells Report explicitly states that some officials do this, despite instructions in the referees' manual not to.

 

[bankshot1]

I think as the NFL prepares for its gold-plated self-congratulatory 50th anniversary SuperBowl circle jerk season, the owners may reflect that rather than tarnish the image of one of its storied champions, and engage in potentially embarrassing litigation, they  may want to focus on other issues like Los Angeles, London or other business building endeavors. IMO cooler heads push that both parties take a step back and work a deal.
 
and then return to the billionaire circle jerk

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Goodell wants to talk with McNally and Jastremski.. Any reason to think they would agree to that? Aren't their NFL careers over?

 
 
There's more at stake than their NFL careers: their reputation has been battered.  They might look at it as a chance to clear their names in the court of public opinion.
 
Where do you see this, BTW?  I've missed this development.

 

[B H Kim]

So, what I really want to know is how far along they are with the America's Game documentary.  Unfortunately, they are probably still in the middle of production, so they won't have any choice but to focus on this whole debacle.

 

[garzooma]

That fact alone leads me to believe that they did not tamper with the footballs in the AFCC. I believe Walt Anderson's recollection that the footballs were set to 12.5 psi, so I cannot envision a scenario where the NEP - even the Tweedles - felt compelled to go take, on average, 0.3. psi out of the footballs. 

 
As I suggested upthread, someone else who can't envision such a scenario is Wells.  If he could have come up with a plausible scenario, he would have put it in the report to establish a narrative of what happened.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Goodell wants to talk with McNally and Jastremski.. Any reason to think they would agree to that? Aren't their NFL careers over?

 
Link?

 

[Harry Hooper]

He dreamed that he stood in a shadowy Court,
 Where the Snark, with a glass in its eye,
Dressed in gown, bands, and wig, was defending a pig
 On the charge of deserting its sty.
 


The Witnesses proved, without error or flaw,
 That the sty was deserted when found:
And the Judge kept explaining the state of the law
 In a soft under-current of sound.
 


The indictment had never been clearly expressed,
 And it seemed that the Snark had begun,
And had spoken three hours, before any one guessed
 What the pig was supposed to have done.
 


The Jury had each formed a different view
 (Long before the indictment was read),
And they all spoke at once, so that none of them knew
 One word that the others had said.
 


“You must know ——” said the Judge: but the Snark exclaimed “Fudge!”
 That statute is obsolete quite!
Let me tell you, my friends, the whole question depends
 On an ancient manorial right.

 

“In the matter of Treason the pig would appear
 To have aided, but scarcely abetted:
While the charge of Insolvency fails, it is clear,
 If you grant the plea ‘never indebted.’
 


“The fact of Desertion I will not dispute;
 But its guilt, as I trust, is removed
(So far as related to the costs of this suit)
 By the Alibi which has been proved.
 


“My poor client’s fate now depends on your votes.”
 Here the speaker sat down in his place,
And directed the Judge to refer to his notes
 And briefly to sum up the case.
 


But the Judge said he never had summed up before;
 So the Snark undertook it instead,
And summed it so well that it came to far more
 Than the Witnesses ever had said!
 


When the verdict was called for, the Jury declined,
 As the word was so puzzling to spell;
But they ventured to hope that the Snark wouldn’t mind
 Undertaking that duty as well.
 


So the Snark found the verdict, although, as it owned,
 It was spent with the toils of the day:
When it said the word “GUILTY!” the Jury all groaned,
 And some of them fainted away.
 


Then the Snark pronounced sentence, the Judge being quite
 Too nervous to utter a word:
When it rose to its feet, there was silence like night,
 And the fall of a pin might be heard.
 


“Transportation for life” was the sentence it gave,
 “And then to be fined forty pound.”
The Jury all cheered, though the Judge said he feared
 That the phrase was not legally sound.
 


But their wild exultation was suddenly checked
 When the jailer informed them, with tears,
Such a sentence would have not the slightest effect,
 As the pig had been dead for some years.

 

 

[Hoya81]

 
Link?

 
 
http://abc7chicago.com/sports/roger-goodell-to-hear-tom-bradys-appeal-of-deflategate-suspension/723590/
 
"A source told ESPN's Ed Werder on Friday that Goodell was likely to interview Patriots equipment assistant John Jastremski and officials locker room attendant Jim McNally as witnesses and that the commissioner wanted to hear Brady's side of the story."
 
This is possibly why JJ and JM are suspended, not fired. The NFL may still ask the Patriots to produce them for this appeal. 

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
 
There's more at stake than their NFL careers: their reputation has been battered.  They might look at it as a chance to clear their names in the court of public opinion.
 
Where do you see this, BTW?  I've missed this development.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Clear their names to whom though? No one is going to remember their names in a year. And most of New England does not think they did anything wrong anyways.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]No reason to speak to an organization that has suspended you indefinitely.[/SIZE]

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Clear their names to whom though? No one is going to remember their names in a year. And most of New England does not think they did anything wrong anyways.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]No reason to speak to an organization that has suspended you indefinitely.[/SIZE]
 

 
To the people that matter most to them: the people they see every day.  Friends, family, neighbors, the guy who cuts their hair, the parent of their kids' friends who they see at the baseball field, co-workers gossiping behind their back, etc.

 

[notfar]

It is embarrassing how bad local radio is about covering this story; that is all I've heard about on the radio for the past month. This is their only job. Most of them are not informed at all about what is going on and its pretty obvious most of them have either not read or did not understand the report. I could understand if they were national people and this isn't their team if they took the easy way out and read some summaries by other people and went with that, but they aren't. I'd be happier if they had actually read the report and understood the nuances but were trolling everybody for ratings, but this is just laziness and incompetence.

 

[lambeau]

It was said somewhere a week ago that Goodell looked forward to meeting with TB face to face as well as the other key witnesses.

 

[pappymojo]

“Oh, help me in my weakness”
I heard the drifter say
As they carried him from the courtroom
And were taking him away
“My trip hasn’t been a pleasant one
And my time it isn’t long
And I still do not know
What it was that I’ve done wrong”

Well, the judge, he cast his robe aside
A tear came to his eye
“You fail to understand,” he said
“Why must you even try?”
Outside, the crowd was stirring
You could hear it from the door
Inside, the judge was stepping down
While the jury cried for more

“Oh, stop that cursed jury”
Cried the attendant and the nurse
“The trial was bad enough
But this is ten times worse”
Just then a bolt of lightning
Struck the courthouse out of shape
And while ev’rybody knelt to pray
The drifter did escape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsk-aHVOmlU

 

[lexrageorge]

JJ and JM were suspended for obvious reasons.  Not sure why people don't understand this.  Both were also sanctioned by the NFL as part of the discipline handed down; it's another point that media misses all the time. 
 
As to the appeal, given that they are still technically employees of the Patriots, Goodell certainly has the authority to request an interview with either as part of the Brady appeal hearing.  The Patriots could refuse to make them available.  If the Pats do make them available, and they refuse, their suspensions will certainly continue.  

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
To the people that matter most to them: the people they see every day.  Friends, family, neighbors, the guy who cuts their hair, the parent of their kids' friends who they see at the baseball field, co-workers gossiping behind their back, etc.

I would like to assume that the people that matter most to them, believe them and the Pats.
If someone is gossiping behind their back, they will most likely do so even after their names have been cleared. But I see your point.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
 
http://abc7chicago.com/sports/roger-goodell-to-hear-tom-bradys-appeal-of-deflategate-suspension/723590/
 
"A source told ESPN's Ed Werder on Friday that Goodell was likely to interview Patriots equipment assistant John Jastremski and officials locker room attendant Jim McNally as witnesses and that the commissioner wanted to hear Brady's side of the story."
 
This is possibly why JJ and JM are suspended, not fired. The NFL may still ask the Patriots to produce them for this appeal. 

 
Ah, thanks.
 
Interesting that he wanted to hear their side of the story after the original punishment was levied. Yee said the league never contacted him once after the release of the Wells Report.

 

[Icculus]

The prohibition against use of videotaping from the sidelines

 
That gets into the memo vs. the rule though. The rule says field which means the actual playing area - inside the pylons so to speak. It would prohibit a player from wearing a video camera while on the field. The memo updates it to include the sidelines which, from my understanding, should have required an actual rule change.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

I would like to assume that the people that matter most to them, believe them and the Pats.
If someone is gossiping behind their back, they will most likely do so even after their names have been cleared. But I see your point.

 
That's not the way the world works.  Tony their long-time barber still cuts their hair but he's been acting a little differently toward them lately.  Co-workers are whispering and seem to change the subject abruptly when they work into the room.  Little junior stills loves his dad and always will, but JM (or JJ) wonders, and may always wonder, whether little junior believes him.  I mean, how could he know for sure? 

 

[PedroKsBambino]

The lawyer that Volin interviewed about Brady's chances in federal court was on Toucher and Rich this morning.  In the paper, she said that Brady's chances in court were slim because of the CBA.  But, Volin never asked her about the Adrian Peterson case which she said this morning changed her mind after reading it.  Great job by Volin to shape the interview to his views.  What a hack.  

 
Who was the lawyer that wanted to speak on this in the first place and was unaware of the Peterson case?
 
On McNally/etc. speaking to Goodell I can't imagine they are going to---if I were their (private, non-team) lawyer I'd figure out if they did anything here that could cause them a problem (e.g. if they were actually deflating balls, selling memorabilia, etc.)  If they were, I'd refuse to speak to Goodell; if they weren't, I'd tell him they next plan to see him during his deposition in their defamation case.  Cannot imagine why they'd speak to Goodell, absent someone offering them a large severance package in exchange for doing so.  They can't really think they are going to get their jobs back at this point.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

JJ and JM were suspended for obvious reasons.  Not sure why people don't understand this.  Both were also sanctioned by the NFL as part of the discipline handed down; it's another point that media misses all the time. 
 
As to the appeal, given that they are still technically employees of the Patriots, Goodell certainly has the authority to request an interview with either as part of the Brady appeal hearing.  The Patriots could refuse to make them available.  If the Pats do make them available, and they refuse, their suspensions will certainly continue.  

A minor irony here is that if the league had a real arbitration provision for these issues, a neutral arbitrator could issue a subpoena compelling their attendance at the hearing, which the courts would enforce.

 

[Average Reds]

JJ and JM were suspended for obvious reasons.  Not sure why people don't understand this.  Both were also sanctioned by the NFL as part of the discipline handed down; it's another point that media misses all the time. 
 
As to the appeal, given that they are still technically employees of the Patriots, Goodell certainly has the authority to request an interview with either as part of the Brady appeal hearing.  The Patriots could refuse to make them available.  If the Pats do make them available, and they refuse, their suspensions will certainly continue.  

 
This is a bit too clever for me.  These two are not "employees of the Patriots."  They have full time jobs elsewhere.  And Roger Goodell does not preside in a court of law with the power to compel testimony.  There's also the reality is that no matter the truth here, these two have worked their last NFL game.
 
Given this, what possible motivation would the two of them have to do anything for the Pats or the NFL?  And can the Pats be held responsible for it if these two tell King Roger to go pound sand?

 

[tims4wins]

Actually Red Averages Average Reds JJ is a full time Pats employee. JM is not.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
This is a bit too clever for me.  These two are not "employees of the Patriots."  They have full time jobs elsewhere.  And Roger Goodell does not preside in a court of law with the power to compel testimony.  There's also the reality is that no matter the truth here, these two have worked their last NFL game.
 
Given this, what possible motivation would the two of them have to do anything for the Pats or the NFL?  And can the Pats be held responsible for it if these two tell King Roger to go pound sand?

 
Again, they would do it strictly for themselves.  Their lives have been significantly impacted.  Some people around town are wondering whether these idiots have caused the local star QB to be suspended and his reputation tarnished.  

 

[Hoya81]

 
Who was the lawyer that wanted to speak on this in the first place and was unaware of the Peterson case?
 
On McNally/etc. speaking to Goodell I can't imagine they are going to---if I were their (private, non-team) lawyer I'd figure out if they did anything here that could cause them a problem (e.g. if they were actually deflating balls, selling memorabilia, etc.)  If they were, I'd refuse to speak to Goodell; if they weren't, I'd tell him they next plan to see him during his deposition in their defamation case.  Cannot imagine why they'd speak to Goodell, absent someone offering them a large severance package in exchange for doing so.  They can't really think they are going to get their jobs back at this point.

 
I can't imagine that they would say anything different than what they told Wells/NFL Security, none of which implicated Brady.  Unless he's going to threaten to press charges for stealing/selling the autographs and swag that they were pocketing to try and get them to flip. 

 

[Average Reds]

A minor irony here is that if the league had a real arbitration provision for these issues, a neutral arbitrator could issue a subpoena compelling their attendance at the hearing, which the courts would enforce.

 
As someone who has been through the process, a neutral arbitrator can't really compel testimony in circumstances like this.
 
I mean, they can try.  But what are the consequences (for McNally, not the Pats) if he refuses to appear?

 

[WayBackVazquez]

A minor irony here is that if the league had a real arbitration provision for these issues, a neutral arbitrator could issue a subpoena compelling their attendance at the hearing, which the courts would enforce.

Not unless the arbitration were held in Massachusetts or within 100 miles of their homes. Which it wouldn't be.

 

[Average Reds]

Actually Red Averages JJ is a full time Pats employee. JM is not.

 
That's a good point.  But I'd bet anything that he's still worked his last game no matter how this turns out.
 
And Red Averages is the other guy who took the name I wanted, which is why I flipped mine around.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
I can't imagine that they would say anything different than what they told Wells/NFL Security, none of which implicated Brady.  Unless he's going to threaten to press charges for stealing/selling the autographs and swag that they were pocketing to try and get them to flip. 

 
Right, but why would you show up at all if you were them?  They have to believe that the NFL has unfairly characterized their texts and painted them unfairly.   Why show up at all now?  
 
I suppose if they were cute they might say something like "we'll show up to speak to you on the condition that the entire interview be broadcast live, and we are permitted an opening comment" with the intent that they'd come in with a long, angry, and detailed opening statement.  But that ain't going to happen.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Not unless the arbitration were held in Massachusetts or within 100 miles of their homes. Which it wouldn't be.

Point taken. I'm sure NY is the preferred location, but I'm not sure why it couldn't be held in Boston or thereabouts if the NFL really wanted to have their testimony.

In any event, it's not going to happen anyway, so I will shut up now.

 

[tims4wins]

 
That's a good point.  But I'd bet anything that he's still worked his last game no matter how this turns out.
 
And Red Averages is the other guy who took the name I wanted, which is why I flipped mine around.

 
Sorry about that, fixed!