#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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The Mort Report

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I hate to say this, but I think there is no chance something for Brady was agreed upon.  The team is known for thinking ahead, and in the long term, hell even short term, isnt a first round pick greater than 4 games to start the season on TB12?  
 

Bleedred

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Being a good soldier for the league has gotten the team nothing but a screwjob from the league.

If Kraft puts the NFL over the Pats then he needs to be forcibly retired by Jonathan. He's letting the team have their next 3 seasons irreparably damaged and is getting nothing in return. Shameful.
Do you not understand that Bob is the Owner...Jonathan is his son who will be lucky to be bequeathed the team?   Jonathan cannot do shit even if he was inclined to...other than to seethe. 
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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My guess is that this was a much harder thing for Kraft to do than most here can even imagine.
 
I am not happy with his decision.  Then again, maybe he knows something we don't and knows he was bringing a knife to a gun fight, which doesn't ever make this better but only makes it worse.
 
Talking about losing respect for Kraft?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I respect a guy who can face a host of shitty options and make a judgment that he thinks is the least bad.  
 
Saying that he put money above the team, or the league above the team does not resonate with me.  He is taking a shitty situation, playing the ball as it lies, and deciding what he thinks is the best course of action in the long run.
 
The NFL in its current incarnation is set up so that it can crush any player or any team if it wants to, and it can appeal to the media and fan's desire for red blood in doing so making it teflon.  That's is the bottom line, and it's always been the bottom line.  Kraft is hoisted on the petard that he is 1/32 responsible for setting up.  Maybe this will lead to reform.  But that's the sad, irony of the situation, and he's faced down more people in difficult negotiations in his life than any of us likely will.
 

ivanvamp

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So the NFL leaked false information to Mortensen which set up this whole narrative.  Either an NFL employee lied to Mortensen in order to create the narrative, or it was an honest mistake. If it was the former, then the NFL was involved in slandering the Patriots.  If it was the latter, the NFL had the chance right away to correct Mortensen's tweet with the correct information, but they chose not to.  That's almost as bad.
 
So the narrative is set.  Millions are spent on a witch hunt.  Which, of course, produces NOTHING, but because the starting assumption is guilt, that's what the final conclusion is.
 
The largest penalty in league history is meted out for something that isn't even CLOSE to having been proven to have happened.  But because the NFL bylaws are what they are, there's literally nothing the Patriots can do about it short of total war, Al Davis style.  And even then it might not change anything.  Even if Goodell issued a 20 draft pick penalty there's nothing the Patriots could have done.
 
And other fans are happy about this.
 
I ask why.
 
The answer is, of course:  The Patriots.  Cheaters.  They are getting what they deserve.

Ok, I get that they hate the Patriots and have no problem with that.  But I want other fans to ask themselves how they'd feel if this was *their* team.  Their team set up like this.  Their team given this kind of unprecedented penalty completely out of whack with NFL norms.  Their team dragged through the mud on this.  Imagine Jets fans if the NFL issued this penalty for tampering with Revis.  Or SD fans if the NFL issued this penalty for using the stickum towel.  
 
What they should be concerned about is the process which allows Goodell to do basically whatever the hell he wants, with no recourse.  I don't mind if they rejoice because they hate the Patriots.  But this penalty is neither right nor just nor moral.  It appeals to people because they hate the Patriots.  They should be very, VERY worried that this is how the process works.
 

rodderick

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Ed Hillel said:
 
Explain how that could have been changed.
 
1. Kraft stands firm in his assertion that the team had done nothing wrong, showing his indignation with the sanctions imposed on them, but backs down from appealing to preserve the league and because nothing good would come out of it for anyone involved. Make that reasoning very clear. 
 
2. Brady appeals his suspension and gets it reduced/eliminated because of all the holes that permeate Wells' investigation.
 
That obviously wouldn't make your average Joe Sports fan refrain from calling them cheaters, but it's a whole lot better than Kraft taking it up the ass to preserve Goodell and the NFL, even if Brady gets some suspension relief in return. The narrative in that scenario is "Kraft's good buddy Goodell once again covering the Patriots' ass and going easy on Brady in exchange for public support".
 

GregHarris

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Yeah 538 ran the numbers an the two picks total greater than Brady's 4, even if Jimmy G is a substantially below average QB.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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DrewDawg said:
 
They get boned anyway.
 
If he wants to continue being an important owner, he can't set the precedent of circumventing the bylaws.
I would argue that his refusal today to stand up to a power-mad douchebag commish intent on destroying his team is evidence that Kraft is no longer an important owner.
 

Shelterdog

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If the other owners weren't going to come to Kraft's aid--and we have to assume they weren't based on this--then Kraft's option is essentially lose an appeal with Goodell as the arbitrator and then decide whether he wants to spend, oh, perhaps $25 million in an ugly litigation against the league where he's likely to lose (he might lose on the papers and then have it only cost a million or two). 
 
The smart play was to pretend to be a crazy man, try to get a better deal as a businessman, and fold before litigation.  Even if Goodell isn't smart Kraft is.
 

ifmanis5

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
In his prime Al Davis would have taken this to court and won easily.
I think Kraft is in a "I'm to old for this crap" and just wants to enjoy his life and not spend the rest of it in court. He's moving on.
 

dcmissle

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Being a good soldier for the league has gotten the team nothing but a screwjob from the league.

If Kraft puts the NFL over the Pats then he needs to be forcibly retired by Jonathan. He's letting the team have their next 3 seasons irreparably damaged and is getting nothing in return. Shameful.
And Jonathan will end up lying in his own blood at a toll plaza ...

You fight this through TB. You're not getting the draft picks back, but you weren't getting them back anyway, and especially after the manifesto.

If Goodell were smart, he'd don shin pads and pull the TB suspension and bury this now.
 

koufax32

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Number45forever said:
Everyone should calm the fuck down with not liking how Kraft handles this.  The man is and will forever be a God for saving football in New England.  Fuck this entire saga and the NFL and Goodell, leave Kraft out of it.
This makes no sense. Fandom and opinions are not package deals like a marriage. You're not less of a fan for being eternally grateful for how Kraft has brought this team out of the gutter then thinking he sold out his "family" (his word, not mine) in this instance. This is as stupid as saying people opposed to the Iraq War didn't love America. SoSH is better than illogical broad brush ztrokes like this.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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SeoulSoxFan said:
 
This may be true, but that did not need Kraft crumbling to make that happen. 
 
Maybe it did.  Maybe Goodell said Brady can take me to court, and we'll see how that goes.  But I'm going to hear his appeal.  And I'm not reducing anything unless you back off on the team penalties.  And Kraft weighed his options and said ok.
 

Reverend

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
My guess is that this was a much harder thing for Kraft to do than most here can even imagine.
 
I also was getting a Tale of Two Cities vibe. God, that must have sucked.
 
We're never going to find out what happened, either. I wonder if they threatened him with breaching their legal agreements about not talking trash publicly about the league or something.
 

yazamataz

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Kraft had little choice in this. The courts were never going to side with the Patriots on their penalty. I think, though, that he is hoping that Brady and NFLPA will go hard in fighting the suspension and win. If Brady wins in court or in arbitration and the Wells report is criticized, the Patriots may feel vindicated as well. I sincerely hope Brady refuses to take anything but no suspension. 
 

kartvelo

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So I guess there will be no apology from the league, even though the only evidence of any wrongdoing provided by the league's multi-million dollar report was "Well, somebody must be guilty of something, or else why did we do this whole report thing?"
Instead, we got to see Kraft crawl to Goodell, lick his boots, and thank him for the beating.
It's a great triumph for justice.
 

steveluck7

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The deal must be in place for Roger to drop the Brady suspension.  The 2 extreme punishments were the suspension and the 1st rounder. Roger "wins" one of those and the Patriots (technically, Brady) "win" the other.
Goodell likely gets called out a bit for reducing the suspension but he is spared embarrasment of having a court tell him he has to, and he gets the public backing from Kraft.
 

PedroKsBambino

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tims4wins said:
Full statement
 
 
 
That is a good statement, given the practical realities.  He is not conceding the underlying facts, and takes veiled shots at the league about the length, the lack of evidence, and the punishment.  I'm not sure what else he could have done other than appeal (which really means litigate, given that there's close to zero chance Goodell was going to reduce the penalties himself).
 
The real discussion is behind closed doors:  did other owners promise Kraft changes in the governance process if he drops it?  Is there consensus about removing Pash, Kensil, or Goodell?   Those things won't be announced, but we'll see how things play out next few months.
 

Salem's Lot

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Now every team in the league knows they can trump up bullshit charges against the Patriots, the league office will drop the hammer based on public sentiment, and the owner will just bend over and take it. If I was Belichick, I'd retire. Making money with his 31 "partners" is obviously more important to Kraft then his fan base or winning championships.
 

jimbobim

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tims4wins said:
Full statement
 
 
Thanks for posting didn't get to hear the specifics. I don't necessarily mind folding because the team's legal options are very limited, but the rhetoric cop out particularly bones Pats fans and Brady. 
 
I'm worried Kraft thinks Goodell will appreciate the folding when he will instead march down his merry way of upholding the Brady suspension and forcing Tom to the courts. 
 

Stitch01

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The pick is more valuable than  Brady getting suspended for four games.  Unfortunately, there was no real recourse for the pick.  There is recourse for the Brady suspension, and for Kraft Im sure Brady matters more than  random pick equity from an emotional standpoint.  So here we are.
 

SoxVindaloo

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TheoShmeo said:
I get the Pats not fighting this.  Limited options.
 
I don't get not saying that he understands and respects that Tom might be in a different position, and that Tom has his full support.
 
PS: And BS on the admission of guilt.  If you don't believe you are going to win, fighting just to fight is pointless.  I head no words of admission in what he said.  I heard that he's part of a club, the club has rules, one of the rules allows the Commish to decide, he doesn't like the decision, but club rules are club rules, and it's time to move on.  Nothing in that is an admission. 
Very well put. A war of attrition vs the NFL will ultimately hit him in the wallet as well. I do sincerely hope that Brady's suspension either goes away or is substantially reduced. To me that was the only real gain of Kraft being defiant. Maybe Kraft is confident enough in that part of the process succeeding to stand down today, or he and the Commish bartered for it.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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dcmissle said:
And Jonathan will end up lying in his own blood at a toll plaza ...

You fight this through TB. You're not getting the draft picks back, but you weren't getting them back anyway, and especially after the manifesto.

If Goodell were smart, he'd don shin pads and pull the TB suspension and bury this now.
 
Yes.  This.  The way to end this is to hear the appeal, drop the TB suspension, and put a bow on this entire episode.
 
Of course, it won't change public opinion on the Patriots, but it will end this issue.
 
But……Roger being Roger, we can be 99.8% sure that this won't happen, that he'll think that reducing it by two games should be enough to satisfy everyone.  But it won't.  And so he will have totally screwed up the opportunity to bury it.  
 
And we'll get what we want anyway - all this aired thanks to the legal system.
 

rodderick

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steveluck7 said:
The deal must be in place for Roger to drop the Brady suspension.  The 2 extreme punishments were the suspension and the 1st rounder. Roger "wins" one of those and the Patriots (technically, Brady) "win" the other.
Goodell likely gets called out a bit for reducing the suspension but he is spared embarrasment of having a court tell him he has to, and he gets the public backing from Kraft.
 
Would Brady be happy about that? I have a feeling this is about PR and public perception as much as it is about the punishment itself. If Kraft negociated Brady's suspension down in exchange for going quietly into the night, Brady might not be all that happy about it either, because it does abolutely nothing to alleviate the notion that he's a cheater and may actually fuel that fire. 
 

Ed Hillel

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I think Kraft also should have mentioned that something needs to be done in terms of fixing the entire process, that he maintained their innocence, and that he was going to do what was in his power to make sure there was more objectivity in the future. What happens next time?
 

Bleedred

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Salem's Lot said:
Now every team in the league knows they can trump up bullshit charges against the Patriots, the league office will drop the hammer based on public sentiment, and the owner will just bend over and take it. If I was Belichick, I'd retire. Making money with his 31 "partners" is obviously more important to Kraft then his fan base or winning championships.
I disagree.  In fact, I think the league is going to be very reluctant coming down on the Patriots in the future unless and until they have legitimate hard core proof of something materially illegal.  Of course, that assumes that Goodell actually learns something from this....which is a massive assumption on my part.  
 
edit:  dumbass spelling of core
 

jablo1312

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I'm dying to know what Belichick, who hates league politics as much as anybody, thinks of all this. Just another reason we NEED that post-career memoir.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Salem's Lot said:
Now every team in the league knows they can trump up bullshit charges against the Patriots, the league office will drop the hammer based on public sentiment, and the owner will just bend over and take it. If I was Belichick, I'd retire. Making money with his 31 "partners" is obviously more important to Kraft then his fan base or winning championships.
 
The upshot of accepting this penalty (or if they had sued and lost, thus the penalties staying in place) is that the next time the Patriots commit any tiny wrongdoing (like 0.5 psi isn't enough of a tiny wrongdoing, even if they did it) they will be THIRD time offenders.  So Goodell could simply hit them with, what, a $2 million team fine, and the loss of two first round picks?  And what, then, can Kraft do about that?
 

AB in DC

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ivanvamp said:
So the NFL leaked false information to Mortensen which set up this whole narrative.  Either an NFL employee lied to Mortensen in order to create the narrative, or it was an honest mistake. If it was the former, then the NFL was involved in slandering the Patriots.  If it was the latter, the NFL had the chance right away to correct Mortensen's tweet with the correct information, but they chose not to.  That's almost as bad.
 
So the narrative is set.  Millions are spent on a witch hunt.  Which, of course, produces NOTHING, but because the starting assumption is guilt, that's what the final conclusion is.
Ok, I get that they hate the Patriots and have no problem with that.  But I want other fans to ask themselves how they'd feel if this was *their* team.  Their team set up like this.  
 
I've actually heard folks say "hell, if my team had 4 Lombardi trophies, I'd be revelling in it.  I'd say they can have the two draft picks, but we 're still champions, so suck it."
 

ragnarok725

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
My guess is that this was a much harder thing for Kraft to do than most here can even imagine.
 
I am not happy with his decision.  Then again, maybe he knows something we don't and knows he was bringing a knife to a gun fight, which doesn't ever make this better but only makes it worse.
 
Talking about losing respect for Kraft?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I respect a guy who can face a host of shitty options and make a judgment that he thinks is the least bad.  
 
Saying that he put money above the team, or the league above the team does not resonate with me.  He is taking a shitty situation, playing the ball as it lies, and deciding what he thinks is the best course of action in the long run.
 
The NFL in its current incarnation is set up so that it can crush any player or any team if it wants to, and it can appeal to the media and fan's desire for red blood in doing so making it teflon.  That's is the bottom line, and it's always been the bottom line.  Kraft is hoisted on the petard that he is 1/32 responsible for setting up.  Maybe this will lead to reform.  But that's the sad, irony of the situation, and he's faced down more people in difficult negotiations in his life than any of us likely will.
 
I'd agree if he made even a gesture towards his own fanbase with all of this. He didn't maintain the innocence of the team, and he didn't say Tom Brady's name once. 
 
He could have been a good soldier while at least acknowledging to the rest of us that he still disagrees. Forget any kind of deal or penalty reduction or sueing the league, at this point he didn't even say he disagreed with the punishment!
 
This was a complete and total, 100% cave. How do you respect that as a fan of the team?
 

denilson3

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At bottom, Kraft chose his fellow owners over Patriots fans. It makes me sick that the league put him in this position, but if he's out on us, I'm out as well.
 
I hope Belichick leaves to coach at Navy. I'll watch them religiously.
 

nighthob

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GregHarris said:
His option would be to gain enough support with the other owners to be able to remove Goodell.  As was mentioned, support was trending away.
He was never going to get 24 votes to dismiss the Artless Roger. However, when his contract comes up for renewal, take the under on the number of owners voting to renew. Because there is a 100% chance that Goodell will stab Kraft in the back again between now and then.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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ivanvamp said:
 
The upshot of accepting this penalty (or if they had sued and lost, thus the penalties staying in place) is that the next time the Patriots commit any tiny wrongdoing (like 0.5 psi isn't enough of a tiny wrongdoing, even if they did it) they will be THIRD time offenders.  So Goodell could simply hit them with, what, a $2 million team fine, and the loss of two first round picks?  And what, then, can Kraft do about that?
Exactly.
 

Stitch01

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jablo1312 said:
I'm dying to know what Belichick, who hates league politics as much as anybody, thinks of all this. Just another reason we NEED that post-career memoir.
Based on everything we know about BB Id guess he hates Goodell with the fire of 1000 suns, knows he's a clown, thinks this is beyond bullshit, hates losing the 1st rounder  more than the money he paid for spygate, and wants all this bullshit well over and done with by week 1 at all costs.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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ivanvamp said:
So the NFL leaked false information to Mortensen which set up this whole narrative.  Either an NFL employee lied to Mortensen in order to create the narrative, or it was an honest mistake. If it was the former, then the NFL was involved in slandering the Patriots.  If it was the latter, the NFL had the chance right away to correct Mortensen's tweet with the correct information, but they chose not to.  That's almost as bad.
 
So the narrative is set.  Millions are spent on a witch hunt.  Which, of course, produces NOTHING, but because the starting assumption is guilt, that's what the final conclusion is.
 
The largest penalty in league history is meted out for something that isn't even CLOSE to having been proven to have happened.  But because the NFL bylaws are what they are, there's literally nothing the Patriots can do about it short of total war, Al Davis style.  And even then it might not change anything.  Even if Goodell issued a 20 draft pick penalty there's nothing the Patriots could have done.
 
And other fans are happy about this.
 
I ask why.
 
The answer is, of course:  The Patriots.  Cheaters.  They are getting what they deserve.
Ok, I get that they hate the Patriots and have no problem with that.  But I want other fans to ask themselves how they'd feel if this was *their* team.  Their team set up like this.  Their team given this kind of unprecedented penalty completely out of whack with NFL norms.  Their team dragged through the mud on this.  Imagine Jets fans if the NFL issued this penalty for tampering with Revis.  Or SD fans if the NFL issued this penalty for using the stickum towel.  
 
What they should be concerned about is the process which allows Goodell to do basically whatever the hell he wants, with no recourse.  I don't mind if they rejoice because they hate the Patriots.  But this penalty is neither right nor just nor moral.  It appeals to people because they hate the Patriots.  They should be very, VERY worried that this is how the process works.
 
Why?  There are two sets of NFL rules...The ones that apply to the Pats and the ones that apply to the other teams.  
The Broncos taped a practice and got a small fine.  That's all you need to know about why other teams should not be worried.
 

Salem's Lot

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Bleedred said:
I disagree.  In fact, I think the league is going to be very reluctant coming down on the Patriots in the future unless and until they have legitimate hard corps proof of something materially illegal.  Of course, that assumes that Goodell actually learns something from this....which is a massive assumption on my part.  
 
I doubt it. This is open season on the Patriots every time they're in a big game. Every team know knows that they can conspire with league officials to fuck over the Patriots and nobody is going to do a God damn thing to fight it. 
 

DJnVa

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Salem's Lot said:
Now every team in the league knows they can trump up bullshit charges against the Patriots, the league office will drop the hammer based on public sentiment, and the owner will just bend over and take it. If I was Belichick, I'd retire. Making money with his 31 "partners" is obviously more important to Kraft then his fan base or winning championships.
 
Did you just copy and paste your notes from your call into WEEI?

 
 

troparra

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NFL justice appears to be a prosecutor providing a public argument biased in favor of guilt, followed immediately by punishment that has no rationale or precedent.  Afterward, the accused can defend themselves, but will find themselves the subject of ridicule for trying to do so.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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So Robert Kraft - the guy who brought long term success to what was once the laughing stock of professional sports - decides that it is in the team's and league's best interest to sqaush this whole silly thing and some folks here, who have far less perspective on it than Kraft, are criticizing him?

Really? Maybe we really are the worst sports fans ever...