#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,092
Duval
I think TB could save some money by just having SoSH represent him instead of Kessler. We would only charge a nominal fee and request an occasional chat. Wait, do you think he would agree to touch us too?
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
20,404
The NFL would argue that Favre's transgression was a non-violent off field one and that Brady's touched on the integrity of the game.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,588
Here
The NFL will argue that the underlying offense from Brady is worse, ergo a harsher punishment than Favre was in order. I think that's an interesting debate. I have thought about how a court would rule on that, and my guess is vacate that part of the penalty because it's too severe, even if the court agrees it should be a bigger punishment than Favre's. Then the question is what part of the punishment is based on the "lack of cooperation?" Without a firm breakdown, it probably means the entire thing is struck down. And we haven't even touched the validity of the report yet...

IANAPL, but if there's more experienced opinion on this, I'd love to hear it.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
Ferm Sheller said:
The NFL would argue that Favre's transgression was a non-violent off field one and that Brady's touched on the integrity of the game.
Oh I get that. But Brady was cited for not cooperating and for not being fully candid. Exact same language used with respect to Favre.

The point Im making is that the "not cooperating/not candid" piece should be "worth" about a $50,000 fine.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
Break down the Pats/Brady penalty into three parts:

1. Tampering with footballs
2. Non cooperation
3. Repeat offenders

The tampering is $25,000 as a starting point. But SD tampered with footballs in 2012 and got NO penalty for that. The Panthers tampered with footballs and were caught on TV doing it, and got NO penalty for that. The Patriots weren't even caught, but we're labeled "more probably than not" to have done it. Humongous fine and penalty and loss of picks and QB suspension

The non cooperation piece. Favre, $50k. The Chargers in that same incident as above got docked $20k for non cooperation. The Patriots? Humongous fine and penalty and loss of picks and QB suspension.

The repeat offender piece? Broncos repeat offenders, no increase in penalty. Jets with three violations in five years and the third violation is the smallest of the three penalties. The Patriots? Humongous fine and penalty and loss of picks and QB suspension

It's clear that Goodell is making it all up as he goes along. Something he got smacked down for in the bounty gate case.
 

Zuzubar

New Member
Jul 16, 2005
103
CoffeeNerdness said:
Kind of annoying that they only spoke on a condition of anonymity. Also it doesn't mention anything illegal, but the tweet frames it with "what Brady did". What he did and what the anonymous source did was ask for balls on the low range. Also, the AFC championship was played in hurricane like conditions? OK, then.
 
While the QB is anonymous, someone could pull up research on QB's who played in the NFL for 12 years. I was thinking Donovan McNabb (who works at NFL Network) could be a candidate.
 

dabombdig

New Member
Aug 14, 2008
261
quincy, ma
Ferm Sheller said:
The NFL would argue that Favre's transgression was a non-violent off field one and that Brady's touched on the integrity of the game.
This could qualify as a dumb question but is it a certainty that the courts would find an alleged onfield transgression more harmful than an alleged workplace sexual harassment complaint?
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
There is simply no good reason for Brady to talk and the only people suggesting that he do so are naive attention seekers.
 
It appears to me that Tom has a decent chance of success if/when he gets to Court.  Why take any risk of diminishing his chances?  And what could he say at this point that he hasn't already said or that hasn't been said by the Patriots, Kraft or Yee?  I mean, I'm sure there's something different, but I doubt it would move the needle in the court of public perception.
 

Gorton Fisherman

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 26, 2002
2,485
Port Orange, FL
Seems to me that any heightened penalty associated with the "integrity of the game" aspect should be attached to the "tampering" charge, not the "non-cooperation" charge. This is assuming "integrity of the game" refers to actions that could impact the fairness of actual "inside the lines" gameplay on the field. If this is the case, then.the Favre and Brady non-cooperation cases are directly comparable. And yes, Brady's penalty for the same alleged misdeed is insanely disproportionate.
 

JJ17

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 12, 2005
55
dabombdig said:
This could qualify as a dumb question but is it a certainty that the courts would find an alleged onfield transgression more harmful than an alleged workplace sexual harassment complaint?
Similarly, the NFL has a bit of a women-related PR issue they are still working to resolve (to put it mildly). I wouldn't put it past the tone-deaf NFL, but I think most organizations would want to avoid saying not cooperating with a sexual investigation is a lesser offense than not cooperating with a deflated ball investigation - particularly in a court of law. And further, that not turning one's phone over for the former was less severe than not turning ones phone over for the latter. 
 
So, yeah. Goodell is definitely going to take that route if it comes to it.
 

baruch20

New Member
Jul 31, 2006
226
North Shore
Gorton Fisherman said:
Seems to me that any heightened penalty associated with the "integrity of the game" aspect should be attached to the "tampering" charge, not the "non-cooperation" charge. This is assuming "integrity of the game" refers to actions that could impact the fairness of actual "inside the lines" gameplay on the field. If this is the case, then.the Favre and Brady non-cooperation cases are directly comparable. And yes, Brady's penalty for the same alleged misdeed is insanely disproportionate.
Let us begin the integrity hearing to defend the People's Honor.  
I am just a humble servant of the People, giving them what they want.
 

I12XU

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 5, 2003
3,445
Brooklyn
I've been waiting for someone to write up a secondary scandal brought to light in the Wells report, that using the same logic Wells used is much more damning and clearly would allow for penalizing Belichick and many more draft picks and fines. INFLATEGATE: somehow at the close of the game Patriots balls measured above 13.5 psi and all above 13 psi-when all the balls were duly reinflated to league specs at halftime by the officials--but again McNally was allowed to carry the balls unescorted to the field. With what we have learned of the ideal gas law, the balls must have lost in excess of .5 psi during the second half; as McNally was to be a devious deflator one can infer that his nefarious skillset also includes inflation. As Tom Brady has expressed a preference for balls to be on the low side, McNally did not inflate these balls over regulation at his direction rather it must have been someone who's authority supersedes that of Tom Brady, one can infer this to be Bill Belichick. There are clear text messages showcasing McNally's awareness of the effect of over inflation and that it is counter to Brady's desire so Brady is fully exonerated in regards to inflategate. Additionally, it is clear from the second half performance that the over inflated balls yielded competitive advantages over the under inflated balls by virtue of a marked increase in scoring and decrease in turnovers. There is clearly a lot more splainin to be done.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
TheoShmeo said:
There is simply no good reason for Brady to talk and the only people suggesting that he do so are naive attention seekers.
Not sure I agree. There are plenty of valid reasons for wanting Brady to talk – from wanting to hear his side of the story to thinking he owes it to the fans if anything happened. It's his lawyer's job to give him the best path to a successful appeal.
 

ipol

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,237
The Dirty Mo'
Van Everyman said:
Not sure I agree. There are plenty of valid reasons for wanting Brady to talk – from wanting to hear his side of the story to thinking he owes it to the fans if anything happened. It's his lawyer's job to give him the best path to a successful appeal.
Then, regardless of any valid reasons for Brady to break his silence, would it still not be best for him to hold it until after the appeal?
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,671
Im a fan and I want to watch Brady play football way more than I want to listen to him talk about this stupid contrived "scandal." So yeah I agree that he should hold his tongue and listen to his lawyer/agent/NFLPA while he goes through the appeal. To the extent that he "owes" us anything I would say he owes giving the 2015 Patriots the best shot at winning games and that's it.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

Bob Kraft's Season Ticket Robin Hoodie
SoSH Member
Jun 29, 2006
8,319
Winterport, ME
Brady speaking now does only one thing,  It brings the story back to the top of every news cast and the narrative becomes "Brady not only a cheater, but a liar too!".
 
I am enjoying the break from having to bury myself in Netflix to avoid all media.  I hope to have a few more days of peace until the Roger denies the appeal and the story comes back to life.
 

jacklamabe65

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
tedseye said:
After weeks of accepting the legitimacy of the Wells/Exponent report, Ben Volin in the Sunday Globe at last joins other critical minds:

"And, of course, Goodell's office levied historically harsh penalties -- a four-game suspension to Tom Brady, a loss of a first-round pick for the Patriots and $1 million fine --based on incomplete evidence and shaky science."

(Edited to correct omitted dashes and apostrophe.)
 
 
 
Probably because the national lens is off The Globe now, so he can't pander anymore to those outside of New England. Instead, he's got a raging NE fan base reading him.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
ipol said:
Then, regardless of any valid reasons for Brady to break his silence, would it still not be best for him to hold it until after the appeal?
Of course. I'm just saying that you don't have to be a card carrying member of the media industrial complex to want to hear him speak. I mean, I'd like to hear him speak – not to "explain himself" but to go off on what an absolute bag job this whole thing was. Will never happen but doesn't mean I don't want to hear him say it as a fan.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
9,966
Boston, MA
The guy who wrote that article linked above, eviscerating Wells and exponent, said he sent the link to the Princeton professor who stood behind the science in the report.  Am I naive to think that if the Princeton professor reads the article, and based on it, reconsiders and disavows the science in the Wells report, that it would be a total game changer and allow Goodell to reduce Brady's suspension to 0 games?
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
I'm sure he was paid well for signing on the dotted line. I think the most that happens is that he gets pissed off at the NFL for sandbagging him.
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,330
Southwestern CT
Bleedred said:
The guy who wrote that article linked above, eviscerating Wells and exponent, said he sent the link to the Princeton professor who stood behind the science in the report.  Am I naive to think that if the Princeton professor reads the article, and based on it, reconsiders and disavows the science in the Wells report, that it would be a total game changer and allow Goodell to reduce Brady's suspension to 0 games?
You're not naive to think that Goodell might reduce/vacate the suspension under those circumstances. You are very naive to think that professor would ever reconsider his opinion.
 

ipol

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,237
The Dirty Mo'
Van Everyman said:
Of course. I'm just saying that you don't have to be a card carrying member of the media industrial complex to want to hear him speak. I mean, I'd like to hear him speak – not to "explain himself" but to go off on what an absolute bag job this whole thing was. Will never happen but doesn't mean I don't want to hear him say it as a fan.
Servicing the fans is great for show runners of an AMC series. It's far less so as a strategy for Tom Brady. This whole mishegoss is the baggiest of bag jobs and, should the wheel of justice spin to "proper", will eventually be shown as such.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
Van Everyman said:
Of course. I'm just saying that you don't have to be a card carrying member of the media industrial complex to want to hear him speak. I mean, I'd like to hear him speak – not to "explain himself" but to go off on what an absolute bag job this whole thing was. Will never happen but doesn't mean I don't want to hear him say it as a fan.
What I want as fan:
 
1.) TB12 to get his suspension removed.
2.) The judge gives Goodell a real smack down in the process (I'm dreaming, but hey, I'm also a fan)
3.) Pats to pick 63rd in the 2016 draft. 
4.) Brady to give an interview after he retires and spout off on the entire DeflateGate nonsense. 
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
Average Reds said:
You're not naive to think that Goodell might reduce/vacate the suspension under those circumstances. You are very naive to think that professor would ever reconsider his opinion.
How pissed off do some of these people have to be right now given the bright light the NFL has accidentally thrown on corporate corruption? I'm sure the Princeton physicist cashed a nice large check to sign off on Exponent's work never thinking the whole project was going to come under this sort of scrutiny. But he's staked his reputation on a hack engineering report and will now be forced to defend it.

Exponent's now known in the wider world and will soon have their name associated with dubious science, meaning that they're going to need to change their name and re-brand, but even then this stinking pile of flapdoodle is going to be bullet point one in every cross that every witness they provide to corporate America faces for years to come. Even Paul Weiss can't be happy with the notoriety that getting involved in this has brought them. They were probably expecting a repeat of the Miami/Richie Incognito investigation where no one would question their credibility, forgetting that in that case the subject matter protected them.
 

Gorton Fisherman

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 26, 2002
2,485
Port Orange, FL
I also think Ted Wells and Paul Weiss have damaged their professional reputations by producing and attaching their names to this flaming turd of a report. How big and how long-lasting the damage is I don't know. I'd be curious to hear the takes of the various members of the legal profession who frequent this forum on this point.
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,936
Most of America and most of the NFL owners think that this report was just fine.  Meanwhile, the name recognition / public profile of Wells and Paul Weiss have never been higher.  This engagement was a big win for both of them professionally.  Even if a judge were to reverse Goodell, in all likelihood it would be because of the unprecedented severity of the punishment for a minor offense.  The report - and the reputation of Wells/Paul Weiss --  will most likely survive the process just fine.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Gorton Fisherman said:
I also think Ted Wells and Paul Weiss have damaged their professional reputations by producing and attaching their names to this flaming turd of a report. How big and how long-lasting the damage is I don't know. I'd be curious to hear the takes of the various members of the legal profession who frequent this forum on this point.
Paul Weiss is a top tier firm in many areas.  I don't see the Wells Report having much of an impact on it.  M&A and bankruptcy clients aren't going to think twice, for example.  And I doubt this does much to Wells or anyone else in his area of practice.  One, he did get a lot of publicity from this and all PR is good PR.  And two, while we have a more studied view (and admittedly, one that carries a bias) of the report -- which I agree, was a flaming pile of crap -- I don't think much else of the world has read it with nearly the critical eye that NE Patriots fans have.  Hell, people who get paid to talk about it on the radio (Chris Russo) admit that they never even read it.  Yes, there are the Sally Jenkins of the world, but she is very unique.    
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
TheoShmeo said:
Paul Weiss is a top tier firm in many areas.  I don't see the Wells Report having much of an impact on it.  M&A and bankruptcy clients aren't going to think twice, for example.  And I doubt this does much to Wells or anyone else in his area of practice.  One, he did get a lot of publicity from this and all PR is good PR.  And two, while we have a more studied view (and admittedly, one that carries a bias) of the report -- which I agree, was a flaming pile of crap -- I don't think much else of the world has read it with nearly the critical eye that NE Patriots fans have.  Hell, people who get paid to talk about it on the radio (Chris Russo) admit that they never even read it.  Yes, there are the Sally Jenkins of the world, but she is very unique.
I think they're more harmed by the way they dealt with it publicly than the report per se. But all of this is survivable if the NFL lets the initial ruling stand and doesn't pursue the case. Unfortunately for everyone involved on the NFL's side it's almost certain they do, and when they do they're going to make a story of this that will catch the eye of media people outsdide the sports room, which won't paint a pretty picture.
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,330
Southwestern CT
Gorton Fisherman said:
I also think Ted Wells and Paul Weiss have damaged their professional reputations by producing and attaching their names to this flaming turd of a report. How big and how long-lasting the damage is I don't know. I'd be curious to hear the takes of the various members of the legal profession who frequent this forum on this point.
 
Not a lawyer but I have worked with law firms on matters of corporate litigation for years.
 
The report was not only acceptable, it was precisely what the client asked for. So no, the report should not damage PW or Ted Wells among the client base in any way.
 
The press conference held by Ted Wells and PW is another matter.  It was unprofessional and may (depending on circumstances) create some short term awkwardness among clients who work with Wells.  But even this worse case scenario will pass quickly.
 
The problems that you see as being related to the report are a function of the scope of work set by the NFL and the shaping of the final report (by the NFL) to reach a desired conclusion.  That's on the NFL, not PW.  It's also worth mentioning that people outside of New England don't really see any issues with the report.
 

Gorton Fisherman

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 26, 2002
2,485
Port Orange, FL
Hmm, interesting.  I would agree that most "casual" fans and other members of the general public likely haven't actually read the report, and generally couldn't be bothered to read any of the numerous well-reasoned critiques of the report in order to truly understand what a piece of crap it is.  Lots of people would also likely ignore/reject any such criticism regardless because of the cognitive dissonance it would create with their already-formed conclusion that "THE PATRIOTS ARE CHEATERZ!!#@!"  In general, those who I would characterize as "low-information" consumers of this story will likely just accept the prevailing narrative that has been presented by the media, in which the Wells report is perfectly fair and just, and the NFL did the right thing by punishing those horrible Patriots.  
 
So I guess I would agree that absent any game-changing development, the reputation of Weiss and Wells will be fine among the general public (for those who even care).  The only thing I could see changing this would be if Kessler and the NFLPA deliver some damaging critiques of the Wells report as part of Brady's appeal, which will receive lots of media attention.
 
What about the reputation of Weiss/Wells among other legal professionals?  Surely many of them who are even the least bit interested in this case must be aware of the many major problems with the report.  Will they think less of Weiss/Wells because of this?  Or will even those who agree that the report is a pile of garbage applaud Weiss/Wells for managing to get paid millions of dollars in fees by the NFL to produce it, quality of the report itself notwithstanding?
 

troparra

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2007
1,921
Michigan
Gorton Fisherman said:
 
So I guess I would agree that absent any game-changing development, the reputation of Weiss and Wells will be fine among the general public (for those who even care).  The only thing I could see changing this would be if Kessler and the NFLPA deliver some damaging critiques of the Wells report as part of Brady's appeal, which will receive lots of media attention.
 
 
Would fake data in the Wells report be a game-changer?  
 
See this section (p. 186 of Wells report):
The Effect of Human Factors on Gauge Accuracy
 
In order to evaluate whether there was a human factors effect (i.e., “operator variability”) on the reading taken by a particular gauge (that is, whether a reading generated by a gauge was impacted by the individual taking the reading), Exponent constructed a set of trials during which five individuals were asked to use the Non-Logo Gauge to measure 11 footballs inflated to the same pressure, as measured by the Master Gauge. Each individual was allowed to familiarize himself with the operation of the gauge using a practice ball, and was then asked to measure the 11 test footballs and announce the reading, which was logged by the test operator. The pressure inside each football was reset with the Master Gauge prior to each trial and temperature conditions were monitored within the test environment to control for any pressure change resulting from changes in the room temperature.
All of the readings generated by all five individuals and all 11 footballs were within 0.05 psig of each other, which is equivalent to the reading resolution of the Non-Logo Gauge (as well as the Logo Gauge).
Because the variability of measurement readings seen in the human factors testing was within the reading resolution of the Game Day Gauges, the measurements on Game Day were unlikely to have been affected by issues relating to the human factors of how the gauges were read or handled to make the measurements.
 
 
The results (bolded - emphasis mine) are fake.  There is no way 5 people each measuring the pressure of 11 balls using the non-Logo gauge can get all 55 readings within 0.05 psi of each other.  Not when the  non-logo gauge had a standard deviation of 0.11-0.12 as determined within this same report (see Figure 8).  
My guess is they didn't even do this experiment.  The only other possibility is that they did the experiment, saw bigger variation than they expected, and changed the results.  Either way, these results are totally falsified.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
Gorton Fisherman said:
Hmm, interesting.  I would agree that most "casual" fans and other members of the general public likely haven't actually read the report, 
 
 
Most *MEDIA* people commenting on it haven't actually read it, I'm convinced.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,377
troparra said:
 
Would fake data in the Wells report be a game-changer?  
 
See this section (p. 186 of Wells report):
 
The results (bolded - emphasis mine) are fake.  There is no way 5 people each measuring the pressure of 11 balls using the non-Logo gauge can get all 55 readings within 0.05 psi of each other.  Not when the  non-logo gauge had a standard deviation of 0.11-0.12 as determined within this same report (see Figure 8).  
My guess is they didn't even do this experiment.  The only other possibility is that they did the experiment, saw bigger variation than they expected, and changed the results.  Either way, these results are totally falsified.
love to see the video of their "reenactment" of what supposedly transpired in the bathroom.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Gorton, I doubt many legal professionals will view Paul Weiss any differently after that report.  While the Wells Report is of great moment to us, Paul Weiss is active on so many fronts on a daily basis.  It would be unusual, absent a truly extreme showing, such as the Firm outright and clearly making shit up, that other lawyers would use this single piece of work as a referendum on the entire firm.  Remember, the Firm's reputation has been built on decades of work, and corporate investigations is but one relatively small part of their overall scope.
 
As to Ted Wells, I doubt many Patriots fans will hire him!  But as Average Reds pointed out, he probably made his client, the NFL, quite happy with his efforts here, and other prospective clients will be more moved by Wells having delivered what the client was looking for than the warts that we are well aware of.  And as I mentioned earlier, Wells' profile has never been larger, so if anything, I assume that this report will be a net positive for his future business generation.  Roger Goodell is sure to come back for more unless a Judge really tears him apart and does so in a public way.  I doubt that is happening.  Kessler's effort will be viewed as an advocacy piece and will not move the esteem needle by itself.
 
One personal story.  I recently gave a presentation on a development in the law to a large group of lawyers and business folks in Boston.  There was a reason to reference Paul Weiss during my talk, and I said something like "you know, the firm that gave us that wonderful Wells Report," hoping to get a knowing laugh or two.  I would say that about 25% of the audience chuckled.  Politely.  My point is that most people just don't care, even in Boston.  People who like Paul Weiss are still going to like them just as much.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
Average Reds said:
Not a lawyer but I have worked with law firms on matters of corporate litigation for years.
 
The report was not only acceptable, it was precisely what the client asked for. So no, the report should not damage PW or Ted Wells among the client base in any way.
 
The press conference held by Ted Wells and PW is another matter.  It was unprofessional and may (depending on circumstances) create some short term awkwardness among clients who work with Wells.  But even this worse case scenario will pass quickly.
Yeah, Paul Weiss' other clients are of the "We want this kept low key" variety, so their handling of the publicity has probably spooked their other clients that don't like that sort of spotlight. My point as regards the report, which I think others have missed, is that Wells put this thing together thinking that no one would ever ask any questions, because that's what happened the last time they did one of these hatchet jobs. So Paul Weiss were caught off guard by the reaction and Wells handled the reaction very badly. But part of the reason for the scrutiny was Goodell's decision to try and make a Himalayan range out of nothing. They can't be happy with the NFL for putting them in that spot unnecessarily.
 
Average Reds said:
The problems that you see as being related to the report are a function of the scope of work set by the NFL and the shaping of the final report (by the NFL) to reach a desired conclusion.  That's on the NFL, not PW.  It's also worth mentioning that people outside of New England don't really see any issues with the report.
Yeah, but this whole thing has pretty well tarred the name of Exponent and the Princeton professor that sold his name for this. And there's a danger of nuclear winter for them. Most of Exponent's advocacy work is esoteric enough to make it tough for attorneys to use in cross examination, but this is one of those cases where the science is laughably bad and the issues simple enough that opposing lawyers can use this to wreck their credibility from now until doomsday, if Goodell decides to go to war over this. Having to testify in court and getting demolished on the stand (I mean the denial of the existence of human error alone is going to bring waves of laughter) permanently damages the credibility of everyone at Exponent. The Princeton professor probably never gets another one of these gigs if he's forced to defend his signature in court. They have to be really pissed at how the league office has hung them out to dry on this.
 

Joshv02

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,633
Brookline
nighthob said:
Yeah, but this whole thing has pretty well tarred the name of Exponent
No shot. 
 
Exponent is basically a group of unaffiliated trial/consultant experts. Maybe someone won't use these specific guys -- I have no idea, I'm not in that field -- but no one will stop using anyone else because of it.  We use a bunch of their other experts for other issues, and aren't going to stop using some of the top testifying expert in what we hire because of an unrelated report about footballs.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,680
Joshv02 said:
No shot. 
 
Exponent is basically a group of unaffiliated trial/consultant experts. Maybe someone won't use these specific guys -- I have no idea, I'm not in that field -- but no one will stop using anyone else because of it.  We use a bunch of their other experts for other issues, and aren't going to stop using some of the top testifying expert in what we hire because of an unrelated report about footballs.
I said in the original post that people were jumping off of that they're probably facing a rebranding if the NFL pursues this to break from an easy to abuse talking point. They'll still want the engineers, they don't want the association.
 

RIFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,087
Rhode Island
It's tough for those of us emotionally invested in this, but the reality is that it is a very small number of people that give this whole thing anymore than a passing glance.  Go poll 10,000 people and maybe 10 will have heard of Exponent.   Same goes for Paul Weiss.  The numbers go down a lot further when people read the report and/or take an opinion on if their conclusions were correct.  This whole episode will amount to nothing in terms of lost business or reputation to them.  The stink of cheating latched onto the Patriots and Brady from the time Kravich's tweet went viral.  The report probably did nothing to sway any opinions one way or the other. 
 
It's really not worth anyone's time to keep coming back and trying to debunk the report.  It's like creationism versus evolution.  No level of evidence or science is going to get someone to switch sides. You just have to let it go and hope that Brady gets his suspension overturned on the CBA precedents.  
 

Joshv02

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,633
Brookline
nighthob said:
I said in the original post that people were jumping off of that they're probably facing a rebranding if the NFL pursues this to break from an easy to abuse talking point. They'll still want the engineers, they don't want the association.
No shot. I'll make it more plain:
No one gives a fuck.
 

Joshv02

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,633
Brookline
nighthob said:
Opposing attorneys certainly will.
I'll stop boring this thread more, but always keep in mind: all experts in litigation are bought and sold.  That was an issue before soft balls, it will be an issue afterwards - this doesn't do anything to move the needle.  But, in no way, shape, or form would this really make any impact on any case that didn't involve these guys (for various rules and practical based reasons), and even in cases that did involve them, this is still not an issue that is worth bringing up.  It just does not matter.
 
Maybe the junior member of the team writing the report will have to disclaim it at the next job interview because it just was not very effective.  But they aren't going Arthur Andersen because of this.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Bedard posits that the Pats might be better off if Brady took a brokered 1-2 game penalty than risked having the whole thing stand and Tom missing games in November of December.  The same would apply to missing even a few games late in the year.
 
None of that is ground that we have not covered in the many pages of this thread.  But does anyone know if the suspension could kick in or otherwise apply in the playoffs?  It's not beyond the pale that the entire thing would drag on until late December and the final result being spit out such that some of the games would be after the 17 weeks of the regular season.  Maybe the answer is that it would carry over to the next season.  But I don't know and am hoping that someone does.
 
PS: A friend who is close to Tom told me that Tom will keep fighting to the finish and that Tom agreed with Kraft's decision not to fight (since Kraft could not overturn the punishment)...so the scenario that Bedard is discussing could end up to be very real (regardless of the playoffs game question I asked). 
 
Also: Nighthob, the notion that PW's other clients were spooked by how Wells handled the press conference -- and I agree that it was a very poor and poorly conceived effort -- is a huge stretch.  Every situation is different and it's not as if the NFL has suffered in a direct and clear way from Wells' lousy performance that day.  Again, loyal and happy clients are just not going to spend that much time evaluating the Firm based on a one off, unusual press conference in a case in which they have no stake.  Hell, the percentage of NFL fans who have even a passing knowledge of what happened at that press conference is probably below 10%.     
 

drbretto

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 10, 2009
12,078
Concord, NH
I can't imagine at this point it has anything to do with missing a few games to Brady. It has to be about clearing his name and if that's the case, there's no way he should settle for anything.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
I agree that Tom is almost certainly looking at it that way.  As a Tom fan, I'm rooting for the same thing.  It's preposterous that what the NFL did has allowed idiots and opportunists to lump him in with wife and child beaters.  As a Pats fan, I might take the certainty of a game or two early on over the possibility that continuing the fight might result in a more nightmarish scenario for the team. 
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
As a Brady and a Pats fan, I want him to go the distance.  Because I think if this goes to court Goodell gets absolutely raked over the coals.  The entire case is built on shoddy science, innuendo, assumptions, and about ten other dump trucks full of crap.
 
And that's putting it kindly.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,069
Hingham, MA
Yeah I am pretty much at the fuck it stage as well. If Brady misses a playoff game it will only further prove what a joke the whole thing is. Although it would probably make Pats haters happy. Talk about messing with the integrity of the game - having one of the all time best players in your sport suspended for a playoff game because he was probably generally aware of something that might have decreased ball pressure by 0.2-0.4 psi