#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,662
where I was last at
So IF NFLPA files in Minn. who gets jurisdiction?
Minn or SDNY?
 
Or both, a ruling for the NFL matter in SDNY, and then the appeal in Minn?
 
How do these procedural matters get resolved?
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
58,909
San Andreas Fault
bankshot1 said:
I just heard the Stephen A Smith rationale (he heard) on Brady/penalty to be upheld/cellphone destruction/Spygate/BB was going to be banned
 
 
I read this three times and don't know what you mean. Smith thinks BB is going to be banned?
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
rodderick said:
 
Hernandez could've been compelled by a judge to produce his phone as evidence, Brady couldn't. If he told the NFL "fuck you, you aren't getting my phone", that's the end of it.
I think it's clear that's what Brady (and maybe even his lawyers) thought. But in a case where things like PR and diplomacy matter, that was a mistake, unless whatever was on that phone was a lot worse than what most of us are assuming.
 

slowstrung

New Member
Jul 18, 2005
46
Alexandria, VA
So if I'm understanding this correctly (there's a good chance I'm not) - union members can't be compelled to turn over their personal cell phones, but the Commissioner can still use that refusal as a line of reasoning to uphold the suspension? Regardless of whether the phone was destroyed, if you have the right not to turn it over, then that's that, no? They can be punished for exercising their rights?
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,594
Here
Bleedred said:
IMO opinion Brady did a stupid thing out of expediency, not an incriminating thing out of panic.  He may pay for his stupidity/naivete/ignorance or Yee's malpractice.
 
Reading Brady's statement, I get the idea that Brady was under the impression that the texts were never going to be an issue and that it was business as usual. Maybe Wells told him they wanted the cell, but they weren't going to force him to do it, and he didn't think much more of it. It was between that meeting time and the writing of the Wells Report that he got rid of the phone. Yee should have made him aware that was a bad idea, but there are many scenarios in which this phone thing never would have become the issue it has. For all we know, Brady and the Wells team were cordial and Brady left thinking everything was going to be ok.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,052
slowstrung said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly (there's a good chance I'm not) - union members can't be compelled to turn over their personal cell phones, but the Commissioner can still use that refusal as a line of reasoning to uphold the suspension? Regardless of whether the phone was destroyed, if you have the right not to turn it over, then that's that, no? They can be punished for exercising their rights?
 
The CBA requires compliance with investigations by the league. What is at issue here is how far that goes and what compliance entails.
 
The league would like it to include having to hand over your phone. The union would like it not to include this.
 

drbretto

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 10, 2009
12,081
Concord, NH
Al Zarilla said:
I read this three times and don't know what you mean. Smith thinks BB is going to be banned?
 
One of the rumors flying around yesterday was that there was some kind of secret order that BB would be suspended if there was any more tomfoolery after spygate and that Kraft backed down to protect BB from getting banned. I may have a detail or two off, but it was a crazy conspiracy theory to begin with.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
WayBackVazquez said:
 
:blink:
 
I mean, it's no CD Cal, but it's not D. Idaho either.  I think Brady/the NFLPA can get a fair hearing  on the merits in the SDNY.  If he was going up against Tyson Chicken in a District of Arkansas court, I might be less optimistic.
 

Bongorific

Thinks he’s clever
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,434
Balboa Towers
There is no Rev said:
 
The CBA requires compliance with investigations by the league. What is at issue here is how far that goes and what compliance entails.
 
The league would like it to include having to hand over your phone. The union would like it not to include this.
Well said. It's really what is at the heart of this case. The continued labor dispute between the league and the players union. Brady recognized that and addressed it in his comment this morning.
 

twothousandone

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,976
geoduck no quahog said:
It's been stated over and over: An NFLPA member cannot be obliged to hand over his cellphone. Voluntarily doing so undercuts the union.
But they can be fined $50,000 if, in refusing to do so, the NFL concludes they are being non-cooperative with an investigation. If I have right, that fine is based on the precedent set by the Favre case, but it is not included in the CBA. I suppose Favre and/or the union decided not to fight it, but doesn't that, in fact, mean there is a gray area about whether an NFLPA member can refuse to turn over his cellphone?

By accpeting a fine, didn't Favre/NFLPA concede it was wrong to refuse? And if it's wrong to do so, can't that mean NFLPA members are supposed to turn over their phones when asked?


Edit: or what Rev said.
 

txexile

New Member
May 7, 2015
39
Texas (ex-Boston)
Apologies if previously posted
 
 
http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/tom-brady-broken-phone/
 
 
THE PEOPLE* VS. TOM BRADY
* Those who believe the NFL's version of events that still remain murky, even after a six-month investigation
 
By Joe Posnanski
 
There’s a famous Carl Sandburg quote that goes something like this: “If the facts are against you, argue the law, If the law is against you, argue the facts. If both are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
 
It’s a great quote but, realistically, it just doesn’t quite fit into today’s culture of spin. That’s because everyone now knows that you don’t have to pound the table. In all arguments — even the most doomed ones — that will be SOME facts that are with you. The key is getting people to believe those facts are more important and more instructive than all the other facts.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,581
NOVA
gingerbreadmann said:
 
These two phrases seem to be at odds. Also, I admit I am pretty surprised by this:
 
 
This is like the third ESPN poll since this whole mess started that has initially begun with the Patriots' side generating most of the support. It'll look totally different by tomorrow morning. 
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,104
There is no Rev said:
 
The CBA requires compliance with investigations by the league. What is at issue here is how far that goes and what compliance entails.
Does it? Not trying to be snarky, but not sure where this requirement is in the CBA. What's the exact language?

Likewise, Roger notes that the standard is preponderance of the evidence for violation of Article 46, but I don't see that in the CBA either.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Have not had a chance to research the jurisdictional tug-of-war -- if there is going to be one.
 
NFLPA undoubtedly is researching J. Berman -- and in that respect it's good that Kessler is based in NYC (he may well know him).  Team Brady has to weigh him against what judge it may draw if it files elsewhere. It has to evaluate whether it would likely win a jurisdictional fight.  It has to weigh the impact of that fight on the clock -- it could last a while, and TB really does need a PI at this point.  It has to decide whether it can allow the NFL to "get away with" a preemptive filing in this case (to be fair, that was a legitimate litigation tactic).
 
If the NFLPA feels comfortable with Berman, it may well stick with him.  From my experience, Berman is solid -- though I have not had this kind of case before him, obviously  Imagine the forehead thumping moment if you file elsewhere, reflexively, just to oppose the NFL and end up with a hostile judge.  It's not clear to me who would get this in Minnesota.
 
In any case, I expect papers to be filed and decisions made by this Friday.  They are still tweaking the already prepared papers to reflect the particulars of yesterday's ruling, in all likelihood.
 
I still feel good about a PI but unlike McCann would not offer ranges of percentages until I review at least TB's motion and assess the judge who will be ruling on it.
 

geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 8, 2002
13,024
Seattle, WA
Best I can find is an opinion that the NFL has no power of subpoena. I'm guessing that means they can request anything, but can demand nothing. Which leads me to the conclusion that refusing to comply with any of their requests is considered "non-cooperation".
 
Brady does not want to set a precedent that players should turn over their cell phones to an organization that is 100% untrustworthy. 
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,662
where I was last at
Al Zarilla said:
I read this three times and don't know what you mean. Smith thinks BB is going to be banned?
During SAS's report yesterday he linked several thoughts.
 
The one about BB was that in the Spygate agreement with the league IF BB is found involved in another deceptive activity (this is from recall so it may not be 100% accurate) that BB could be banned from the NFL. And IIRC SAS speculated that this might be why Kraft buckled and accepted the team penalties.
 
(But SAS ignores the timeline that BB was absolved of guilt in the Wells Report, and Kraft's acceptance came after the Wells Report).
 

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,494
Jim Trotter ‏@JimTrotter_NFL · 7m7 minutes ago
The NFLPA will file its Brady appeal in Minnesota and is working to do so by as early as today, per source.
 
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
koufax32 said:
How is Yee not locked in a janitor's closet with duct tape over his mouth?
.
Donald Yee very well may have fucked things up for Brady.  But does no one else see the irony from so many people here assuming he did something bad based on only circumstantial evidence and assumptions that are not grounded in fact or hard evidence?
 

HomeBrew1901

Has Season 1 of "Manimal" on Blu Ray
SoSH Member
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
.
Donald Yee very well may have fucked things up for Brady.  But does no one else see the irony from so many people here assuming he did something bad based on only circumstantial evidence and assumptions that are not grounded in fact or hard evidence?
Either way Yee should just shut the fuck up and let Kessler do all the talking.
 
Edit: Is there anything that Yee could say that Brady hasn't already that could make it better?  If anything I can only see Yee fucking it up more and make it look worse for Brady.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
9,968
Boston, MA
From Ted Wells Press Conference in May:
 
Q: Do you view Tom Brady as not cooperating fully?
 
W: Mr. Brady, the report set forth, he came to the interview, he answered every question I put to him. He did not refuse to answer any questions in terms of the back and forth between Mr. Brady and my team. He was totally cooperative.
 
At the same time, he refused to submit us to review electronic data from his telephone or other instruments. Most of the key evidence in this case, as in most cases, comes from people's cell phones, and he refused to let us review the phones.
 
And I want to be crystal clear. I told Mr. Brady and his agents, I was willing not to take possession of the phone. I said, "I don't want to see any private information." I said, "Keep the phone. You and the agent, Mr. Yee, you can look at the phone. You give me documents that are responsive to this investigation and I will take your word that you have given me what's responsive." And they still refused.
 

nolasoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 11, 2004
6,930
Displaced
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
.
Donald Yee very well may have fucked things up for Brady.  But does no one else see the irony from so many people here assuming he did something bad based on only circumstantial evidence and assumptions that are not grounded in fact or hard evidence?
Wasn’t this was the same level of ‘evidence' used to fine and take draft picks away from the Patriots?
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,994
Burrillville, RI
HomeBrew1901 said:
Either way Yee should just shut the fuck up and let Kessler do all the talking.
Could this be a deliberate strategy? Yee is Brady's agent, maybe they are using him for what he is, a mouthpiece. Instead of leaking stuff to various mediots, they have a "spokesperson." Could it be beneficial to them if they plan to address the many leaks that have presumably come straight from the NFL?  
 

HomeBrew1901

Has Season 1 of "Manimal" on Blu Ray
SoSH Member
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
 
And why are you assuming that Kessler wasn't involved in this decision?  
It is not logical to think that he is not.  
What about any of this has been logical?
 
I edited my original post, but what could Yee possibly add that is going to make Brady look better?  If anything Yee can only make Brady look worse.

 
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,594
Here
koufax32 said:
How is Yee not locked in a janitor's closet with duct tape over his mouth?
 
I thought his statement yesterday was fine, and I'm willing to wait to see exactly what information he has regarding the cell phone. We don't know the details yet.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,897
Los Angeles, CA
koufax32 said:
How is Yee not locked in a janitor's closet with duct tape over his mouth?
If Brady is telling the truth about his phone being broken, then that takes wind out of the sails of people who wanted to believe Yee allowed or instructed him to destroy the phone.

Maybe he's not as bad as people think, and he's been charged by the team with trying to rectify the phone issue from the beginning. He sent the June 18th memo to the NFL, he alluded to the issue in yesterday's statement, and he's following through on his promise of "more to come".
 

Hoya81

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 3, 2010
8,458
Ed Hillel said:
 
I thought his statement yesterday was fine, and I'm willing to wait to see exactly what information he has regarding the cell phone. We don't know the details yet.
If it ends up that one of TB's kids or dog broke the phone somehow(which is almost certainly the answer), all you'll hear is people claiming that Brady is throwing his family under the bus.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,301
deep inside Guido territory
 
Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn  9m9 minutes ago
Don Yee _ Tom Brady agent _ told me player was beyond cooperative with @nflcommish and Ted Wells team, says all cell records offered (1/2)
 
 
Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn  7m7 minutes ago
Yee (2/2): "I’m not sure there’s another person in America with a celebrity equal to Tom’s who would do that. Imagine Taylor Swift.."
 
Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn  5m
5 minutes ago
Don Yee on #NFL filing in NY fed court: "One inference is they’re not confident in their reason, not confident in their evidence...(1/3)
Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn  4m
4 minutes ago
Yee (2-3): "(They're) looking for a friendly jurisdiction down the street from Park Avenue because they’re saying to the world...
Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn  3m3 minutes ago
Yee (3-3): “We doubt our evidence and reasoning can withstand any jurisdiction in America.’’ They’re essentially admitting that.''
 

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,494
Yee is clearly making the rounds to all sorts of folks to change the "destroyed phone" narrative. This HAS to be a coordinated effort with the NFLPA.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,594
Here
Yeah, I'm going to wait for La Confora, because Ed Werder's Tweets could use a bit more context.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,101
I'm going to take Yee's side here.
 
First, we have no way of knowing Yee's involvement in the destruction of Brady's phone.  We can only speculate; what if Brady told Yee after the fact? 
 
Second, Yee is paid by Brady to protect Brady's brand.  That brand, initially tainted by this whole nonsense, was even further sullied by the league's managed leaks of misleading information regarding Brady's cooperation during the investigation and the appeal.  Someone very high up in the league office told S. A. Smith to leak the phone issue ahead of the press release.  There is only one reason to do that:  to destroy Brady's brand in the court of public opinion so that Goodell would feel comfortable at keeping the suspension intact.  Goodell no longer has to defend the 4 games for Brady vs. smaller punishments for far more serious infractions.  
 
So Yee is fighting back on the PR game.  I don't see anything that Yee or Brady has said that will compromise their legal battle.  Sometimes, you have to fight the bully head on. 
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,897
Los Angeles, CA
This whole cell phone issue might shed some light on why Brady voluntarily went under oath for the appeal hearing. They knew it was going to take some convincing that there was no untoward behavior. Trying to pull out all the stops electronically was one leg of the defense against intentional spoliation, and his testimony was another.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,301
deep inside Guido territory
djbayko said:
This whole cell phone issue might shed some light on why Brady voluntarily went under oath for the appeal hearing. They knew it was going to take some convincing that there was no untoward behavior. Trying to pull out all the stops electronically was one leg of the defense against intentional spoliation, and his testimony was another.
Even if he printed out the actual texts from his phone, who's to say Goodell's mind would have even changed?  
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,897
Los Angeles, CA
RedOctober3829 said:
Even if he printed out the actual texts from his phone, who's to say Goodell's mind would have even changed?  
I'm not saying it would. But they have to mount a defense, if for no other reason than to secure a solid case of travishamockery in federal court.