#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

kieckeredinthehead

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
8,635
Is Berman's possible reluctance to rule based on "hard case / bad law" and/or the lack of clarity in impartiality or who the aggrieved party is at all tied into the NFL's antitrust exemption?
 

scott bankheadcase

I'm adequate!!
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
3,057
hoboken
One thing I keep thinking back to as this whole thing ridiculously unfolds is how Adam Silver was able to have a full on "I'm the man here" press conference, answer all reporters questions and subsequently follow through by ousting an owner -- while the 29 other owners never had to vote or even lift a finger -- while simultaneously raising the franchise values for all 30 of his teams. This was also an act that was applauded by his players and the union.
 
I know the circumstances are very different, but just judging a commissioners performance, I'm actually not sure the NFL owners are getting their money's worth, despite the money RG has made them.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,275
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 32m32 minutes ago
Report: Colts sweep for bugs in locker room when playing at Gillette Stadium http://wp.me/p14QSB-9PzV


Manning and Dungy are gone from Indianapolis, but the team reportedly still shares the same concerns about what might be joining them in the locker room. Bob Kravitz of WTHR reports that the Colts still sweep the visiting locker room for bugs whenever they play at Gillette Stadium.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
dcmissle said:
By my count, there are 23 judges on the Second Circuit bench. Their proclivities and philosophies are all over the lot. Beyond a healthy respect for hard working district court judges, and a refusal to get star struck by any party or lawyer before them, you can't assume anything.

This case would go into the hopper with all the rest of them. Beyond being reasonably attentive to matters genuinely calling for expedited resolution, nobody is getting any special treatment.

This often is a revelation to billionaires and large business entities. It is amusing to be in the room when scales drop from their eyes.
 This, and people here also need to crank down the extent to which SDNY/2D Circuit judges are, or should be, intimidated by the big, bad NFL.
 
These are guys and gals who regularly tell entities like the US government, or ExxonMobil, to go shit in their hat.  A year's revenue for the NFL (the entity) and all of its franchises combined would be a bad quarter's writeoff for ExxonMobil, and would not register as a rounding error in the United States budget (plus the US government can, like, execute people, and start wars, and stuff). 
 

JayMags71

Member
SoSH Member
singaporesoxfan said:
If the judge upholds the suspension but with a scathing decision that essentially reads "Brady was railroaded, in ways X, Y, Z, but unfortunately my hands are tied" that's hardly a nightmare scenario.
How does a "scathing decision" materially help Brady and the PA? I can see how it is a PR victory over Goodell and the owners. Beyond that, though what has the PA won?
 

JayMags71

Member
SoSH Member
soxhop411 said:
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 32m32 minutes ago
Report: Colts sweep for bugs in locker room when playing at Gillette Stadium http://wp.me/p14QSB-9PzV
Further evidence that NFL players, coaches, and management take themselves far too seriously. "This is VALUABLE INFORMATION we're talking about in here! They're OBVIOUSLY going to WANT to listen in! SWEEP THE ROOM FOR BUGS!!!"
 

singaporesoxfan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2004
11,882
Washington, DC
JayMags71 said:
How does a "scathing decision" materially help Brady and the PA? I can see how it is a PR victory over Goodell and the owners. Beyond that, though what has the PA won?
 
It's not a great outcome. But given how important reputation seems to be as a motivator for Brady in this case, a PR victory is not trivial. To me, the "nightmare scenario" (which is what I was responding to) is losing both the legal and the PR battle.
 

JayMags71

Member
SoSH Member
singaporesoxfan said:
It's not a great outcome. But given how important reputation seems to be as a motivator for Brady in this case, a PR victory is not trivial. To me, the "nightmare scenario" (which is what I was responding to) is losing both the legal and the PR battle.
That's a reasonable answer. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing another tangible benefit.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
That's a new story, I believe. They STILL DO.
It would appear that they are channeling Kravitz, again, for a riff on yesterday's story.

This is so transparent it is funny. And remember, this is from the Al Capone music sheet -- they are really bad, and we have to get them for something.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
And to repeat, people who think they are likely to win in court do not okay these silly little games. To the contrary, they are terrified of anything that might rock the boat.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,694
Well, bugs would explain why the Pats were able to surprise Indy by running the ball down their fucking throat every game/every quarter/virtually every series. That's some top secret shit there -- hand ball to Grey/Blount and.....repeat.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
Tony C said:
Well, bugs would explain why the Pats were able to surprise Indy by running the ball down their fucking throat every game/every quarter/virtually every series. That's some top secret shit there -- hand ball to Grey/Blount and.....repeat.
 
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
Tony C said:
Well, bugs would explain why the Pats were able to surprise Indy by running the ball down their fucking throat every game/every quarter/virtually every series. That's some top secret shit there -- hand ball to Grey/Blount and.....repeat.
"What are we doing to fix the run defense, coach?"
"That's just what they expect us to do! We're going to surprise them by not fixing the run D at all!" :: cackles evilly :: "They'll never see it coming!"
 
cut to halftime
"HOW DID COULD THEY KNOW OUR PLANS ... unless ... CHECK THAT PLANT FOR BUGS!!!!"
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,667
Obviously they never found any evidence of bugs. I mean, christ, they ran to the league when the balls got softer based on nature. Can you imagine what they would have done if they found a bug?
 

loshjott

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
14,943
Silver Spring, MD
FL4WL3SS said:
When you're paranoid that your partner is doing something unsavory, it's probably because you are doing it.
 
I bet the Colts are doing exactly what they're accusing the Patriots of doing.
When the Colts listened to the bugs they planted in the Pats locker room they couldn't hear anything over the piped in crowd noise.
 

JayMags71

Member
SoSH Member
The lack of self-awareness within that organization is amazing. Yeah, there who are going to read this and think "Makes sense. The Patriots aren't beneath tapping the opposing locker room."

But there has to be a population - beyond Patriots fans - who would see this as evidence of a sore loser's behavior.

I really hope this was put out there as a joke.
 

judyb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
4,444
Wilmington MA
When you're paranoid that your partner is doing something unsavory, it's probably because you are doing it.
 
I bet the Colts are doing exactly what they're accusing the Patriots of doing.
Not unlike how so many liars find it so easy to assume that Brady's a liar.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,367
loshjott said:
When the Colts listened to the bugs they planted in the Pats locker room they couldn't hear anything over the piped in crowd noise.
 
 
Nice.
 
It's a treat to watch Rodney Harrison's comments on stopping Peyton.
 

Gash Prex

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 18, 2002
6,823
At some point the representation of the NFL has to be questioned as they appear to be receiving bad legal advice about the CBA and how it will play out in Court. They are 0-4 on these discipline issues - that almost falls squarely on legal counsel.  We all know that Goodell didn't write that discipline opinion and was written by his lawyers with some input. 
 
His lawyers orchestrated this entire investigation from beginning to end and they screwed it up despite having total control.  
 

Norm loves Vera

Joe wants Trump to burn
SoSH Member
Dec 25, 2003
5,370
Peace Dale, RI
Sally Jenkins brings it again...
 
"
While Goodell has sweeping powers to issue player discipline under the CBA, Berman made it clear he does not have the right to willfully misstate and mislead, gin up phony investigations based on pseudo-science, and then issue Draconian four-game suspensions simply because he’s furious Brady and the New England Patriots don’t say, “All hail to the emperor.”
 
“There has to be some basic process of fairness that needs to be followed,” Berman said"
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/deflategate-judge-doesnt-seem-likely-to-rubber-stamp-roger-goodells-decisions/2015/08/21/034f8a26-4747-11e5-846d-02792f854297_story.html
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
Super Nomario said:
"What are we doing to fix the run defense, coach?"
"That's just what they expect us to do! We're going to surprise them by not fixing the run D at all!" :: cackles evilly :: "They'll never see it coming!"
 
cut to halftime
"HOW DID COULD THEY KNOW OUR PLANS ... unless ... CHECK THAT PLANT FOR BUGS!!!!"
 
Are the Colts actually aware that bugs are electronic listening devices and not trained insects?
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,294
Los Angeles
Gash Prex said:
At some point the representation of the NFL has to be questioned as they appear to be receiving bad legal advice about the CBA and how it will play out in Court. They are 0-4 on these discipline issues - that almost falls squarely on legal counsel.  We all know that Goodell didn't write that discipline opinion and was written by his lawyers with some input. 
 
His lawyers orchestrated this entire investigation from beginning to end and they screwed it up despite having total control.  
 
The league has several top-flight law firms. I doubt any of them wakes up each morning with the goal of squashing the union (for the remainder of the CBA), or of solidifying Commissioner Goodell's power. These things tend to be client driven.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,236
Kessler is obviously a brilliant lawyer. But Daniel Nash is probably among the ten best L&E attorneys in the country. Good facts or law and a seemingly sympathetic judge can make even mediocre lawyers look like geniuses.
 
 
That is why the first thing any new law school graduate should say is "Mom, Dad, I love you and if you ever need a lawyer, I will refer you to the best one I can find."  A great lawyer can do a great job and still lost because he had a shitty case. Don't represent friends or relatives, unless you don't want them to talk to you anymore.
 
At some point the representation of the NFL has to be questioned as they appear to be receiving bad legal advice about the CBA and how it will play out in Court. They are 0-4 on these discipline issues - that almost falls squarely on legal counsel.  We all know that Goodell didn't write that discipline opinion and was written by his lawyers with some input. 
 
His lawyers orchestrated this entire investigation from beginning to end and they screwed it up despite having total control.
 
 Without knowing what advice was being given, it's hard to draw that -- or any -- conclusion as to the quality of legal advice. Or, for that matter, the content of the legal advice.    The bolded, as a general proposition, is just flat wrong.
 

Joe D Reid

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
4,208
Going 0-4 with reputable counsel does not mean that you are getting bad trial representation. It means that you are not following the advice of your pre-trial representation.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,236
Mike Reiss
 
 
✔
@MikeReiss

Photo: Front page of @NOLAnews. Notable anniversary. Reminder of days when NFL commissioner played role of uniter.

 
 

Both Reiss and Volin are doing all they can to get noticed by ESPN. :colbert:
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,559
Here
Lester Munson bringing it again!

Wow, Berman took the case!?
First, he actually decided to take the case on. That's rare enough when dueling parties have previously contractually agreed to allow disputes to be handled by arbitration. But rather than punting the case immediately, as I and other legal analysts figured would happen, Berman has tolerated multiple briefings and hearings, with more to come.
Berman looks bad!
Simply put, he's trying everything he can to get this thing resolved out of court and is not afraid to look bad -- or sometimes even one-sided -- by doing so.
Convincing evidence!
In this case, recognizing that the NFL has convincing evidence and significant legal precedents on its side, Berman knows the only way he can produce a settlement is to show the league that there is a possibility it could lose a case that it should win. That is why he devoted most of a hearing Wednesday to picking apart the Goodell opinion and the league's legal position.
The strength of the NFL position in the litigation is indisputable. It is based on powerful legal precedents that severely limit a federal judge's review of an arbitration decision and on the convincing evidence gathered for the Wells report and described in surprisingly powerful terms in Goodell's decision.
Berman cannot vacate under American law!
It means a do-over, and a do-over is exactly what Berman is not permitted to do under American law.
And more!

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13479971/fooled-judge-deflategate-case-nfl-win-end-new-england-patriots-tom-brady
 

singaporesoxfan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2004
11,882
Washington, DC
nighthob said:
 
Are the Colts actually aware that bugs are electronic listening devices and not trained insects?
 
Maybe they were looking for wascally wabbits.
 
"I know expecting balls not to deflate in cold weather defies the laws of physics, but, you see, I never studied law!"
 

Doctor G

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 24, 2007
2,331
So just as it is revealed that the judge is appealing to reasonable voices in the ownership community to tell Goodell to consider settlement, it is revealed that the Colts are so paranoid that they sweep the locker room for bugs. if this is Irsay's strategy to get the other owners to hold the line he better stop letting the Percocets and Grey Goose do his thinking for him.
How long before the majority of owners tell Irsay Biscotti and Woody that they would like to begin selling the 2015 season and stop trying to rewrite the 2014 season.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,367
gammoseditor said:
That Lester Munson article looks like it was written by Daniel Nash and proof read by Jeffrey Pash.
 
 
"nd on the convincing evidence gathered for the Wells report and described in surprisingly powerful terms in Goodell's decision."
 
 
 
Wow. Just wow.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,188
Harry Hooper said:
 
 
"nd on the convincing evidence gathered for the Wells report and described in surprisingly powerful terms in Goodell's decision."
 
 
 
Wow. Just wow.
 
 
 

Punchado

Nippy McRaisins
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 11, 2002
2,717
Los Angeleees
What might be the most amazing part of all of this to me -- after seven months and millions spent and reputations tarnished and hours and hours of TV time spent discussing this scandal -- is that during the AFC championship game between the Patriots and the Colts, the only people who admittedly and undoubtedly fucked with any game balls were guys who worked for the NFL.   
 

PBDWake

Member
SoSH Member
May 1, 2008
3,686
Peabody, MA
Harry Hooper said:
 
 
"nd on the convincing evidence gathered for the Wells report and described in surprisingly powerful terms in Goodell's decision."
 
 
 
Wow. Just wow.
 
This is often how I picture Lester Munson in my head when he was practicing...
 
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
Joe D Reid said:
Going 0-4 with reputable counsel does not mean that you are getting bad trial representation. It means that you are not following the advice of your pre-trial representation.
 
Exactly.
 
If it was the lawyers saying "Do X" and they turned out to be wrong not once, not twice, but three times, then the NFL would have shit-canned them for one of the other dozen top-flight firms in NYC.
 
It's clear that the NFL is saying "Damn the torpedoes!" at every juncture, regardless of whatever they may or may not be told by their lawyers.   In fact, those same lawyers almost certainly have a lot of "What is our client thinking?" closed-door discussions over a bourbon at 9:00 PM.
 

GregHarris

beware my sexy helmet/overall ensemble
SoSH Member
Jun 5, 2008
3,460
No wonder why they have lost by an average of 25 points their last 4 games.  That's one hell of an opioid induced paranoia.
 
 
I bet if the Colts ever found anything they would raise a banner for it.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,367
drleather2001 said:
 
Exactly.
 
If it was the lawyers saying "Do X" and they turned out to be wrong not once, not twice, but three times, then the NFL would have shit-canned them for one of the other dozen top-flight firms in NYC.
 
It's clear that the NFL is saying "Damn the torpedoes!" at every juncture, regardless of whatever they may or may not be told by their lawyers.   In fact, those same lawyers almost certainly have a lot of "What is our client thinking?" closed-door discussions over a bourbon at 9:00 PM.
 
 
Are they, or is all part of a broad, deliberate strategy to assemble as many powers for the Commish over the hired help as you can?You may not win every tussle, in fact you could lose more often than win, but every win expands management's control a bit.