#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Bleedred]

Ray Rice punished twice
Judge Jones finds that Roger lied
Ray's suspension gone
 
Brady; Jastremski
Talked ball prep and deflategate
Roger lied again

 

[Reverend]

Rev incoming in 3...2...

 
I had physical therapy, but fortunately I've got some wingmen.

 

[Leather]

"Balls!" said the Commish,
"They must be soft. They must be!"
Judge laughed; Brady's free.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

This is awesome, and seems highly unusual, to say the least:
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/08/26/judge-not-sure-roger-goodell-understands-there-is-a-cba/

 
It is pretty weird for him to comment on the Berman case, I think, but his comment about Goodell ignoring the existence of the CBA seems pretty much directly on point given how blatantly they flouted it in Peterson.

 

[lostjumper]

 
It is pretty weird for him to comment on the Berman case, I think, but his comment about Goodell ignoring the existence of the CBA seems pretty much directly on point given how blatantly they flouted it in Peterson.

I know nothing about federal judges, but I assume they are not people to screw around with. It feels like with all of these cases, the NFL makes up a ruling, and then defend it by saying they can do whatever they want. They come across to me as extremely arrogant and think they are above the law. They actually had the temerity to tell judge Berman that he doesn't have the authority to vacate the punishment they handed down. Its sounds like Doty is fed up with their act, and hopefully Berman feels the same way.

 

[Myt1]

It's not temerity. It's a pretty basic argument that is probably the first line of every filing opposing the appeal of a labor arbitration award.

Edit: Maybe the argument doesn't win. But it's about as conscience shocking as Lou Gorman having lunch.

 

[Blundatola]

It's not temerity. It's a pretty basic argument that is probably the first line of every filing opposing the appeal of a labor arbitration award.

Edit: Maybe the argument doesn't win. But it's about as conscience shocking as Lou Gorman having lunch.

 
Isn't it temerity, though?  After all, the NFL filed to have the decision affirmed.  If they believe the court has the authority to affirm, doesn't that also imply the court has the authority to vacate?

 

[WayBackVazquez]

 
Isn't it temerity, though?  After all, the NFL filed to have the decision affirmed.  If they believe the court has the authority to affirm, doesn't that also imply the court has the authority to vacate?

 
Ivanvamp?

 

[Blundatola]

My apologies.  I take it this has been covered.  Clearly I'm not a lawyer, but setting aside legal aspects, it does seem rather brash.

 

[dcmissle]

 
Isn't it temerity, though?  After all, the NFL filed to have the decision affirmed.  If they believe the court has the authority to affirm, doesn't that also imply the court has the authority to vacate?

No, it's just a hard ass legal argument. Look, the NFL has handled several things poorly, most notably its negotiating posture. This is not one of those things -- they have to be hard ass in order to have any chance of winning this. Confirmation is specifically orovided for by federal statute. Among other thinga, it prevents collateral attacks on arbitration awards. There is nothing logically or legally inconsistent in arguing -- you should confirm, and your review function is extraordinarily limited.

 

[Blundatola]

Thanks for the clarification.  It definitely comes off as audacious from a layman's perspective, since I would never bother to affirm something I didn't think could be denied on a personal front, but at least there is a legal justification for this seeming insanity.
 
And thanks to all the lawyers of SoSH for their insights in the legal thread.  It's been a great read.

 

[BroodsSexton]

It's not temerity. It's a pretty basic argument that is probably the first line of every filing opposing the appeal of a labor arbitration award.

Edit: Maybe the argument doesn't win. But it's about as conscience shocking as Lou Gorman having lunch.

That would be pretty conscience shocking these days.

 

[Myt1]

That would be pretty conscience shocking these days.

I got halfway through with posting, remembered, and basically said, "Eh, I'll leave it as a volleyball set."

 

[Reverend]

hanks for the clarification.  It definitely comes off as audacious from a layman's perspective, since I would never bother to affirm something I didn't think could be denied on a personal front, but at least there is a legal justification for this seeming insanity.
 
And thanks to all the lawyers of SoSH for their insights in the legal thread.  It's been a great read.

 
It's a language issue. There is some conflation of the terms "can," "allowed to," "authority," and "jurisdiction."
 
The court has the authority to rule on this case. The NFL is arguing that so long as it follows the law, it cannot vacate the award. Stated differently, the court cannot vacate the award in an award consistent with the law.
 
Those well versed in the law tend to leave out the italicized portions as they go without saying. Then the uninitiated get confused by the causal language of "can't." "Can't" is a funny word--people can do a lot of things people say you can't do. Often, what they mean is that you shouldn't, generally for reasons X, Y, or Q.
 
The flip side of this is the idiot talking heads that say they have "no sympathy for the NFLPA" because "they bargained to give Goodell the authority to rule and basically do anything he wanted," when, if stated properly with, "they bargained to give Goodell the authority to rule and basically so anything he wanted consistent with the law," you get something very different.

 

[The Mort Report]

Outside of a few Suffolk business law classes and my love to argue, I could never be a lawyer because you people have to read waaaaaay too much for my taste.  So from a straight argumentative standpoint, it seems to me to be a poor point to make if I was an NFL lawyer telling the judge he can't vacate because we say so.  Unlike Goodell, Berman understands, you know, law, and doesn't need to be reminded of what the NFL's stance on this and the main reason it is in court.  This is not about the facts of the case, this is about whether the league violated the CBA, and its going to come down to convincing the Judge.  I see zero gain from telling the judge this, if anything it comes out, as many have pointed out, arrogant. If the Judge truly felt that way, he would have sided with the NFL right away and we would have probably been off to another court already. If the NHL is supposed to have such great lawyers, this seems to be a poor tactic on any level 

 

[dcmissle]

But sometimes, tactically, it makes sense to tell the judge you cannot do this and escape reversal. Getting your Clint Eastwood on this way may strike some as insensitive and arrogant, but I have seen it work. And more diplomatically -- I hope -- I have made it work in cases that call for it.

Whether it works in this case, I do not know. I tend to doubt it but would not be surprised.

 

[Reverend]

Outside of a few Suffolk business law classes and my love to argue, I could never be a lawyer because you people have to read waaaaaay too much for my taste.  So from a straight argumentative standpoint, it seems to me to be a poor point to make if I was an NFL lawyer telling the judge he can't vacate because we say so.  Unlike Goodell, Berman understands, you know, law, and doesn't need to be reminded of what the NFL's stance on this and the main reason it is in court.  This is not about the facts of the case, this is about whether the league violated the CBA, and its going to come down to convincing the Judge.  I see zero gain from telling the judge this, if anything it comes out, as many have pointed out, arrogant. If the Judge truly felt that way, he would have sided with the NFL right away and we would have probably been off to another court already. If the NHL is supposed to have such great lawyers, this seems to be a poor tactic on any level 

 
Did you even read the post I laid right in front of yours?
 
The NFL is NOT talking about the scope of the judge's powers, it is talking about the what they claim the state of the law to be.
 
It's the same as saying to a police officer, "You can't shoot that child for no reason!!" I mean, yes, obviously, the police officer can shoot that child, as he is armed with a firearm and is therefore capable of doing just that--what we all understand that to mean is that he ought not do so because it would be illegal and wrong, yes?
 
Seriously, why is this so hard? Did some of you never get hit in elementary school ages with the annoying response to the question, "Can I go to the bathroom?" of, "I dunno, can you?" because technically you should have said, "May I go to the bathroom?"

 

[E5 Yaz]

Did you even read the post I laid right in front of yours?

 
Well, he did say lawyers "have to read waaaaaay too much for (his) taste" ... and since he only had 3 hours and 23 minutes, he probably didn't read it

 

[twothousandone]

Did some of you never get hit in elementary school ages with the annoying response to the question, "Can I go to the bathroom?" of, "I dunno, can you?" because technically you should have said, "May I go to the bathroom?"

That's a very English-centric view, isn't it? BrazilianSoxFan, among others, could very well have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Otis Foster]

 
 
 
Seriously, why is this so hard? Did some of you never get hit in elementary school ages with the annoying response to the question, "Can I go to the bathroom?" of, "I dunno, can you?" because technically you should have said, "May I go to the bathroom?"

 
 
You must have had Miss Marchand in 7th grade!!!

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

That's a very English-centric view, isn't it? BrazilianSoxFan, among others, could very well have no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

That's a very English-centric view, isn't it? BrazilianSoxFan, among others, could very well have no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

[Nick Kaufman]

There's something rather comforting in the fact that every aspect of this case has been discussed 100 times over, so that the thread seems to have run out of steam which only allows me to save the 3 hours I need to spend each day to catch up on it.

 

[dstunbound]

There's something rather comforting in the fact that every aspect of this case has been discussed 100 times over, so that the thread seems to have run out of steam which only allows me to save the 3 hours I need to spend each day to catch up on it.

 
What am I supposed to do now though... work?

 

[simplyeric]

There's something rather comforting in the fact that every aspect of this case has been discussed 100 times over, so that the thread seems to have run out of steam which only allows me to save the 3 hours I need to spend each day to catch up on it.

 
have you considered contributing to the poetry version of the thread?

 

[Norm loves Vera]

Mort sounds drunk!
 
Dennis and Callahan ‏@DandCShow 20m20 minutes ago
Remarkable, @mortreport claims that both Robert and Jonathan Kraft called and apologized to him. 9:20 into this. http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=314644 …

 

[simplyeric]

It's defamation.
Defamation! Defama
tion, right?  No?  What about Def...

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

For what exactly are they apologizing?

 

[j44thor]

I've seen the needle
And the damage done. Gone, gone
The suspension done

Did you steal this from true detective season 2 opening song?

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Twelve point five, hut, hike
Baby it is cold outside
Eleven point five? Yikes!

 

[bernardsamuel]

Litigate once more!
Character defecation:
Roger is guilty.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

For what exactly are they apologizing?

He was rambling about how he appreciates the fanaticism of NEP Fans..the quote regarding the Krafts was something along the lines of "Both Jon and Bob called me to apologize for how it all went down." 
 
The interviewers were ball washing him the whole call and didnt follow up.. their responding question to the Krafts calling quote was to ask if Mort knew immediately how big the story would be.. 

 

[KenTremendous]

Mort sounds drunk!
 
Dennis and Callahan ‏@DandCShow 20m20 minutes ago
Remarkable, @mortreport claims that both Robert and Jonathan Kraft called and apologized to him. 9:20 into this. http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=314644 …

That interview is infuriating. He repeats a ton of garbage, blames Belichick (!) for being the first one to implicate Brady, cites the study about Pats fumbles, and absolves himself of all responsibility for everything that happened. And as he is doing all of that, has the temerity to adopt an attitude of "I wish this would all go away so we could talk about real football."  It's so cowardly.
 
Just when I think nothing related to this story can still rile me up, here comes Mort.
 
(edited to correct for grammatical and word choice errors made when typing within white-hot rage cloud)

 

[Gambler7]

That interview is infuriating. He repeats a ton of garbage, blames Belichick (!) for being the first one to implicate Brady, cites the study about Pats fumbles, and absolves all responsibility for everything that happened. And as he is doing all of that, has the temerity to take adopt an attitude of "I wish this would all go away so we could talk about real football."  It's so cowardly.
 
Just when I think nothing related to this story can still rile me up, here comes Mort.

I just listened to it. Infuriating was the first word to come to mind as well. Embarrassing is the second.

 

[Joe D Reid]

So what you're saying is that you're definitely bringing FJM back as a Deflategate debunking site. C'mon, Ken, let the hate flow though you!

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Mort still doesn't understand the ideal gas law. He's also "insulted" that people would think he was deliberately fed false information. Blames Belichick for bringing up Brady's name. Wasn't him. He says his focus was on 11 of 12 footballs being underinflated, not being 2 lbs under. But then says you can argue if they were actually significantly underinflated. Nice hard hitting interview Arizona Sports. 

 

[edmunddantes]

Holy Jeebus!
 
He's got the martyrdom thing down. 
 
All these bad things happened to me. 
 
I just wish it will all go away.
 
Not a hint of self awareness or belief that he has learned a meaningful lesson from all of this. 

 

[amarshal2]

If only we had a thread specifically for Mortensen.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

How come it's ok to have your name be Jesus, but when used in exclamation - people write Jeebus?
 
(The bar across the street from me also has a sign that says "Thank Jeebus 4 Football")
 
That's all I got.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I haven't (and won't) listen to that Mort interview, as I'd rather shut the car door on my hand a few times instead. I will offer, however, a conjecture that the Krafts offered some commiseration/apology for some of the more abusive tweets and other feedback that Mort has received. Leave it to Mort to make more of it than that and play the martyr.
 
 
Jonathan, unload on this POS. You know you want to. Just wait until after Berman rules.

 

[judyb]

Mort still doesn't understand the ideal gas law. He's also "insulted" that people would think he was deliberately fed false information. Blames Belichick for bringing up Brady's name. Wasn't him. He says his focus was on 11 of 12 footballs being underinflated, not being 2 lbs under. But then says you can argue if they were actually significantly underinflated. Nice hard hitting interview Arizona Sports.

And claiming again that his article was corrected and doesn't still say that the footballs were 2 psi under.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I haven't (and won't) listen to that Mort interview, as I'd rather shut the car door on my hand a few times instead. I will offer, however, a conjecture that the Krafts offered some commiseration/apology for some of the more abusive tweets and other feedback that Mort has received. Leave it to Mort to make more of it than that and play the martyr.
 
 
Jonathan, unload on this POS. You know you want to. Just wait until after Berman rules.

 
Given what happened I'd be more disappointed if the Krafts actually apologized for that than about them not appealing the penalty. This time, they actually did have an alternative, which is to say "Mort, I understand some people said things that sound over-the-top.  But the fact of the matter is, you were wrong, you inflamed the situation by being wrong, and to this day you haven't owned up to your significant contribution to this mess, or corrected your mistakes.  You have earned a lot of crticism for those things, and you shouldn't be surprised you are getting it---whether or not the tenor of the criticism is what I would have picked"

 

[KenTremendous]

So what you're saying is that you're definitely bringing FJM back as a Deflategate debunking site. C'mon, Ken, let the hate flow though you!

No joke, it's been talked about. The problem, really, is lack of objectivity, at the very least in the minds of the (theoretical) readers. The original site was greatly helped, I think, by the fact that the subject matter was fandom-agnostic. In this stupid story, everything I say is easily dismissed as the ravings of a fan. (Even Mort says in that interview that he "understands" the "fanatical" fanbase in New England. I would say he was a condescending prick if I thought for one second he was smart enough to be condescending in that manner.)
 
It's our own fault, really -- I feel responsible for blindly accepting the league's rulings on a number of issues I didn't care about, because they weren't about my team. BountyGate, Incognito/Martin... I did what everyone else is doing now, and kind of glanced up and assumed everyone was guilty and moved on with my life. It wasn't until Ray Rice that I tuned into, and got angry about, the fucked up league protocols and their pathetic faux-moralistic justice system. And then, the deluge. 
 
From now on, we should all care more and pay more attention. We won't, probably, because it's hard to, and because being in Sauron's eye this long has been exhausting, but we should.

 

[snowmanny]

If I hear about that fumble rate idiocy again I may have to strangle someone. Or rant like a lunatic. This was a "study" done with basically no data points, just a presumption that the NEP's used balls of indeterminate lower deflation than other teams..but of course we have no clue what New England's average psi was or what any teams's average psi was. And there was no study of exactly how psi effects ball grip and so forth, which would be pretty easy to do if you really thought it was very important, just a presumption that there must be some sort of direct correlation. And no credit to the fact that there are lots of other variables that that one team might do differently than another that could effect fumble rate (player selection, play calling, coaching, and of course whether or not they routinely bench anybody that fumbles).  And no thought that if you have a historically great team then they are probably historically great at particular aspects of the game and that doesn't mean that they were cheating any more than it would mean that the 1927 Yankees were using corked bats, juiced baseballs and steroids.  And no mention that in the ten quarters of football that we know for a fact the 2014 Patriots played with perfectly inflated OR OVERINFLATED footballs (Jets game, Super Bowl, 2nd half AFCCG) they fumbled a grand total of zero times.  And of course the unspoken implication of all this is that if Brady was behind this "scheme" he wouldn't be doing to decrease the fumble rate therefore it really was Belichick all along.  Too many stupid people.  Way too many stupid people.

 

[Harry Hooper]

If I hear about that fumble rate idiocy again I may have to strangle someone. Or rant like a lunatic. This was a "study" done with basically no data points, just a presumption that the NEP's used balls of indeterminate lower deflation than other teams..but of course we have no clue what New England's average psi was or what any teams's average psi was. And there was no study of exactly how psi effects ball grip and so forth, which would be pretty easy to do if you really thought it was very important, just a presumption that there must be some sort of direct correlation. And no credit to the fact that there are lots of other variables that that one team might do differently than another that could effect fumble rate (player selection, play calling, coaching, and of course whether or not they routinely bench anybody that fumbles).  And no thought that if you have a historically great team then they are probably historically great at particular aspects of the game and that doesn't mean that they were cheating any more than it would mean that the 1927 Yankees were using corked bats, juiced baseballs and steroids.  And no mention that in the ten quarters of football that we know for a fact the 2014 Patriots played with perfectly inflated OR OVERINFLATED footballs (Jets game, Super Bowl, 2nd half AFCCG) they fumbled a grand total of zero times.  And of course the unspoken implication of all this is that if Brady was behind this "scheme" he wouldn't be doing to decrease the fumble rate therefore it really was Belichick all along.  Too many stupid people.  Way too many stupid people.

 
Mort citing that fumble thing raises all sorts of uncomfortable questions (for him and for ESPN) about his sourcing and his general reporter's sagacity.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Meanwhile, Rich McKay was re-instated as head of the Competition Committee:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/27/rich-mckay-reinstated-as-head-of-nfl-competition-committee/

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

 
Mort citing that fumble thing raises all sorts of uncomfortable questions (for him and for ESPN) about his sourcing and his general reporter's sagacity.

What would lead you to believe that ESPN gives a shit? Mort doesn't make the top ten of the biggest ignoramuses employed by ESPN.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

No joke, it's been talked about. The problem, really, is lack of objectivity, at the very least in the minds of the (theoretical) readers. The original site was greatly helped, I think, by the fact that the subject matter was fandom-agnostic. In this stupid story, everything I say is easily dismissed as the ravings of a fan. (Even Mort says in that interview that he "understands" the "fanatical" fanbase in New England. I would say he was a condescending prick if I thought for one second he was smart enough to be condescending in that manner.)
 
It's our own fault, really -- I feel responsible for blindly accepting the league's rulings on a number of issues I didn't care about, because they weren't about my team. BountyGate, Incognito/Martin... I did what everyone else is doing now, and kind of glanced up and assumed everyone was guilty and moved on with my life. It wasn't until Ray Rice that I tuned into, and got angry about, the fucked up league protocols and their pathetic faux-moralistic justice system. And then, the deluge. 
 
From now on, we should all care more and pay more attention. We won't, probably, because it's hard to, and because being in Sauron's eye this long has been exhausting, but we should.

 
That depends where it showed up and who the readers were---certainly wouldn't be a problem around here!

 

[catomatic]

Did you steal this from true detective season 2 opening song?

Stole it from Neil Young—from whom True Detective must have stolen it too. It's a classic.

 

[ifmanis5]

Meanwhile, Rich McKay was re-instated as head of the Competition Committee:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/27/rich-mckay-reinstated-as-head-of-nfl-competition-committee/

I mean.. just... what in actual fuck. RG is a clown show with no rival.