Do you think that Chaim Bloom came to Boston with a bad rap?

Bloom's bad rap, did you buy into it and has it changed for you?

  • I bought into it, my POV has not changed at all. (He stinks then and now)

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • I bought into it, my POV has changed. (I thought he stinks, but I think he's good/ok now)

    Votes: 4 2.0%
  • I didn't buy into it, my POV has not changed at all. (I gave him the BotD* and think he's good/ok)

    Votes: 100 49.3%
  • I didn't buy into it, my POV has changed. (I gave him the BotD* and think he stinks)

    Votes: 90 44.3%

  • Total voters
    203
Sep 13, 2006
738
...I think coming from Tampa was a positive to a far greater percentage of the fan base than it was a negative.
It certainly was for me, as I've been impressed with Tampa Bay's uncanny ability to field competitive teams on a very constrained budget. I viewed the Rays' FO's 2 greatest skills as: 1) their (seemingly endless) ability to find/develop pitching; and 2) their penchant for savvy trades. I imagined what the Rays' FO could accomplish if they had the Red Sox vast financial resources. I was excited at the prospect of a "best-of-both-worlds" merger of the Rays' FO's strongest attributes with the Red Sox ownership's willingness to spend. I believed that Bloom was the right hire at the time.

If anything, my present lack of faith in Chaim stems largely from unfulfilled expectations. To my eyes, Bloom's performance with the Big League roster has been underwhelming at best. I truly believed that he could/would field a competitive Major League team while simultaneously strengthening the farm system. I do not believe that these are mutually exclusive objectives, especially for a franchise with Boston's financial resources.

My present disenchantment with Chaim also stems from comparisons to his predecessor's decisiveness. Dombrowski operated like a professional assassin. He identified his target(s) and he moved swiftly and decisively. By comparison, some of Bloom's moves seem downright bipolar (see Bradley, Jackie and Renfroe, Hunter). At the 2020 trade deadline, Bloom fails to move JBJ. Was he planning on bringing JBJ back in 2021? He didn't. Then, after JBJ's execrable 2021 season, Chaim trades one of his successful "buy-low" acquisitions (Renfroe) for JBJ. Many people view these moves as headscratchers.

While the jury remains out on many of Bloom's moves with respect to the farm system (and will likely remain out for multiple years), I don't see a wealth of almost-ready talent that will transform the Big League team into a Championship-caliber team any time soon, even if I squint hard.

I also wonder how much faith the players on the big-league roster have in Chaim. It would be fascinating to be the proverbial fly on the wall when discussions re: Chaim are taking place amongst the players.

Despite my initial enthusiasm for Chaim, I presently feel that Bloom represents a hire that has not borne enough fruit. Were his employment to be terminated tomorrow, I would not shed a tear.
 

JCizzle

Member
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Dec 11, 2006
19,650
It certainly was for me, as I've been impressed with Tampa Bay's uncanny ability to field competitive teams on a very constrained budget. I viewed the Rays' FO's 2 greatest skills as: 1) their (seemingly endless) ability to find/develop pitching; and 2) their penchant for savvy trades. I imagined what the Rays' FO could accomplish if they had the Red Sox vast financial resources. I was excited at the prospect of a "best-of-both-worlds" merger of the Rays' FO's strongest attributes with the Red Sox ownership's willingness to spend. I believed that Bloom was the right hire at the time.

If anything, my present lack of faith in Chaim stems largely from unfulfilled expectations. To my eyes, Bloom's performance with the Big League roster has been underwhelming at best. I truly believed that he could/would field a competitive Major League team while simultaneously strengthening the farm system. I do not believe that these are mutually exclusive objectives, especially for a franchise with Boston's financial resources.

My present disenchantment with Chaim also stems from comparisons to his predecessor's decisiveness. Dombrowski operated like a professional assassin. He identified his target(s) and he moved swiftly and decisively. By comparison, some of Bloom's moves seem downright bipolar (see Bradley, Jackie and Renfroe, Hunter). At the 2020 trade deadline, Bloom fails to move JBJ. Was he planning on bringing JBJ back in 2021? He didn't. Then, after JBJ's execrable 2021 season, Chaim trades one of his successful "buy-low" acquisitions (Renfroe) for JBJ. Many people view these moves as headscratchers.

While the jury remains out on many of Bloom's moves with respect to the farm system (and will likely remain out for multiple years), I don't see a wealth of almost-ready talent that will transform the Big League team into a Championship-caliber team any time soon, even if I squint hard.

I also wonder how much faith the players on the big-league roster have in Chaim. It would be fascinating to be the proverbial fly on the wall when discussions re: Chaim are taking place amongst the players.

Despite my initial enthusiasm for Chaim, I presently feel that Bloom represents a hire that has not borne enough fruit. Were his employment to be terminated tomorrow, I would not shed a tear.
Great post. This sums up many of my thoughts.
 

astrozombie

lurker
Sep 12, 2022
165
The Dodgers front office came from Tampa. Boston was literally emulating LA. Bring in a Tampa exec to build out the farm and when players are graduating to provide minimum wage help sign some elite players to contend. We’ll be seeing the first fruits of that over the next 18 months.
The Dodgers also signed mookie Betts. Perhaps the Sox should have done that to emulate the Dodgers! /s
The Dodgers got the right guy (friedman) to run their team. Going and getting someone anyone from tb is not the same. Personally I think Bloom is not the right person, you (and others) want to give him more time. That's fine, I still think he's not the guy and the fruit this system is going to bear is not going to be that great. Maybe some good players, even great (mayer) but I guess we'll see, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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Hank Scorpio

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Apr 1, 2013
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When he came in, I thought he'd do well by finding guys like Pivetta and Whitlock - which he has, to an extent - but by supplementing those by making shrewd trades and flexing the Red Sox financial muscle. He hasn't done a very good job at the second half of that...

The return on the Mookie trade has been disappointing.
The Renfroe acquisition was nice, but the subsequent trade was inexplicable.
The Benintendi trade was poor.
He half-assed last year's trade deadline by getting nothing for JDM/Eovaldi.
He probably could have signed Devers for much less if he did it sooner.
He probably could have kept Bogaerts on a very reasonable deal if he made a serious offer sooner.

Also, fair or not, my impression of him has evolved into that he doesn't want to make the obvious good move, or the popular move... he wants to make the under the radar, "look, I found 2 WAR for the league minimum" move - while the fans are treated to paying hundreds of dollars to take the family to see Franchy Cordero.

If it wouldn't have been such a colossal fuck up, I'd be almost surprised he took Mayer in that spot - because Mayer is the obvious choice, and Chaim Bloom gets no credit for drafting Marcelo Mayer. Drafting some under the radar guy would have better fit Bloom's MO.

When Chaim came on board, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But now? I think he sucks, and I hope he's gone very soon.
 

simplicio

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Apr 11, 2012
3,323
My present disenchantment with Chaim also stems from comparisons to his predecessor's decisiveness. Dombrowski operated like a professional assassin. He identified his target(s) and he moved swiftly and decisively. By comparison, some of Bloom's moves seem downright bipolar (see Bradley, Jackie and Renfroe, Hunter). At the 2020 trade deadline, Bloom fails to move JBJ. Was he planning on bringing JBJ back in 2021? He didn't. Then, after JBJ's execrable 2021 season, Chaim trades one of his successful "buy-low" acquisitions (Renfroe) for JBJ. Many people view these moves as headscratchers.
This feels a bit grass-is-greener to me. I also liked Dombrowski's penchant for getting stuff done, but how much of that is just down to public perception, and hasn't Bloom similarly Gotten Stuff Done (with people not named Betts and Bogaerts)? Barnes, Whitlock, Jansen, Yoshida? Let's not forget Dombrowski also professionally assassinated the Price and Sale deals; it's not like he doesn't also have huge misses (that negatively impacted the team way more than a terrible season of JBJ).
 

Seels

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Jul 20, 2005
4,678
NH
He stinks and I thought he was a blah hire from day one. Yes the Mookie thing stains it - regardless of ownership wanting to minimize payroll, two bad prospects and a jag outfielder was not a proper return.

The reality of the matter is right now they have a team that has got worse every year, is almost certainly going to struggle to find 75 wins next year, had a bad outfield, a bad infield, bad relief pitching, bad starting pitching, and still a high payroll. His biggest 'win' was a guy who is unlikely to be better than a 2.5 WAR player. His best prospect was a pick that 99% of people make.

I'd struggle to see what Chaim has done that others couldn't, and think many others wouldn't have made his mistakes.

If there's a plan, it's impossible to have any perception of what it is.
 

JCizzle

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Dec 11, 2006
19,650
This feels a bit grass-is-greener to me. I also liked Dombrowski's penchant for getting stuff done, but how much of that is just down to public perception, and hasn't Bloom similarly Gotten Stuff Done (with people not named Betts and Bogaerts)? Barnes, Whitlock, Jansen, Yoshida? Let's not forget Dombrowski also professionally assassinated the Price and Sale deals; it's not like he doesn't also have huge misses (that negatively impacted the team way more than a terrible season of JBJ).
Penciling over Xander isn't fair in my opinion. I mean, Betts and Bogaerts are two HUGE names in Red Sox lore, no? Based on reporting of what Xander would have considered last year, Bloom basically chose Story over Xander with that salary slot and it backfired. That's a large investment they could have, and should have, made better.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
7,426
He half-assed last year's trade deadline by getting nothing for JDM/Eovaldi.
Given that the 51-52 Giants and 41-60 Cubs put Carlos Rodon and Willson Contreras on the market and didn't trade them because the market was so low, what do you think JDM and Eovaldi would have gotten in return?

As a refresher, Rodon and Contreras got a combined 249 million in free agency, despite having a QO attached to them. Eovaldi and JD got 44 million (Nate did have a QO attached as well).
 

TheYellowDart5

Hustle and bustle
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Apr 16, 2003
9,191
NYC
I've said it elsewhere on this board before but the beginning of the Bloom tenure in Boston reminds me a lot of the beginning of the Friedman tenure in Los Angeles, when it genuinely seemed like he didn't know that he had a bigger budget to work with and didn't have to work with a bunch of self-imposed poverty half-measures. The difference is that Friedman and company not only built up an elite farm system but also created an elite player development system, and while it's too early to say definitively how that's going in Boston, it feels right now like the org isn't all that close on either. And while there's a 'time will tell' aspect to that, in particular the PD seems lacking; this FO is not good at getting the most/more out of its free agents of any stripe. That's ultimately a reflection on Bloom, and while the farm system is improved, the major league side of things has come across as disjointed and lacking foresight, and it's hard to say that's purely a money thing.
 

Benj4ever

lurker
Nov 21, 2022
314
2021 was worse than 2020?
That's a rhetorical question, right? Bloom haters are going to put the worst spin they can on everything.

The Sox wanted a guy who was going to build a team, not buy one. That's why they canned Dombrowski and hired Bloom. Even if they do fire Bloom to appease the fan base, they'll just hire another guy who will do their bidding, so the whole Bloom hate is pointless.
 
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scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,094
The reality of the matter is right now they have a team that has got worse every year, is almost certainly going to struggle to find 75 wins next year, had a bad outfield, a bad infield, bad relief pitching, bad starting pitching, and still a high payroll. His biggest 'win' was a guy who is unlikely to be better than a 2.5 WAR player. His best prospect was a pick that 99% of people make.

I'd struggle to see what Chaim has done that others couldn't, and think many others wouldn't have made his mistakes.

If there's a plan, it's impossible to have any perception of what it is.
Yoshida is currently projected to be a 3.5-4 win player by 2 different projection systems. That may be high, but it seems incredibly premature to already characterize him as unlikely to be better than 2.5 war.

The plan, now that Devers is in place, seems pretty obvious. They're resetting the tax this year while putting out a mediocre team that with a little luck can contend for a wild card while at the same time figuring out what they have in a number of different young players both in Boston and the minors and setting themselves up to spend over the tax in 24 or 25.
 

JM3

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Dec 14, 2019
11,334
I've wasted way too much time explaining why JD was a negative asset that would take giving up something to get off his negative contract.

But let's get into Eo a bit.

Before the deadline, he missed time from June 12th to July 15th with back inflammation, & these were his 1st 3 starts after returning:

7/15 4.1 innings, 3 ER
7/22 2.2 innings, 9 ER
7/27 6 innings, 4 ER

His velocity was also down. It's hard to think people would be lined up to pay over $7m for a couple months of question marks & give up something of value.

& obviously they had interest in bringing him back as they apparently offered him more than what he ended up accepting, & they still get a draft pick for him.
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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The answer to the specific question is no. As I've said before, Bloom is facing a similar set of criticisms as Farhan Zaidi in SF, and Farhan doesn't have the Tampa "shadow" weighing on him. Both guys seem to be trying to build intelligently while not overpaying for FA, and they're both getting killed for it (though Zaidi's decision not to sign Correa looks pretty sharp, or at least defensible, now).

I think guys with reputations as "never played the game bean counters" receive the same type of criticism regardless of where they worked before getting promoted to team president.
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
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Chicago, IL
I didn’t mean him personally, Bloom is the same as every other front office guy: young, white, went to Yale, loves quarter zips and obsessed with McKinsian efficiency.

But the prejudiced view was about the TB front office: trading veterans as soon as they start making money, cycling faceless relievers in and out of the organization, frugal, things like that.

I hate the TB organization as much as I hate the Yankees. So hearing that the Sox hired someone from that organization wasn’t exactly music to my ears.

But having said that, I think where he worked kinda poisoned the well even before day one in Boston. I don’t think he was given a fair shake and he really needed to come out of the gates swinging with his first big transaction. That didn’t go great and I don’t think he’s recovered.
I think Bloom was largely given the benefit of the doubt by those on this site, including me. He fit the mold: Ivy educated, smart, nice-looking fella. A Theo prototype. And that's certainly what I projected on to him: a new Theo, not a TB apostle. I liked the hire. And I didn't perceive a bias against him coming in, the opposite; and that the loudest voices on this site still give him the benefit of the doubt. I've been disappointed by his tenure, though admit so much of what he's done can be seen from many perspectives - Rorschach test stuff.

Me: he's lost my confidence, though I think he's done some things well. But the proof is in the pudding: the roster he's built is discernibly worse than the one he inherited. The farm is better but not exactly brimming with blue chippers. Not sure he's accomplished much and suspect he will not be the CBO in a year.
 

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
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Given that the 51-52 Giants and 41-60 Cubs put Carlos Rodon and Willson Contreras on the market and didn't trade them because the market was so low, what do you think JDM and Eovaldi would have gotten in return?

As a refresher, Rodon and Contreras got a combined 249 million in free agency, despite having a QO attached to them. Eovaldi and JD got 44 million (Nate did have a QO attached as well).
Thank you! We read a lot of criticisms of trade decisions that make little or no effort to gauge the market.

Take the Betts return. If you compare it to comparable trades (i.e. star players with one year remaining pre-FA), I'd just say that the Diamondbacks would have loved to get a league average corner outfielder, a high-ceiling middle infield prospect who ultimately didn't pan out, and a backup catcher back for Goldschmidt.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
12,310
The Dodgers also signed mookie Betts. Perhaps the Sox should have done that to emulate the Dodgers! /s
The Dodgers got the right guy (friedman) to run their team. Going and getting someone anyone from tb is not the same. Personally I think Bloom is not the right person, you (and others) want to give him more time. That's fine, I still think he's not the guy and the fruit this system is going to bear is not going to be that great. Maybe some good players, even great (mayer) but I guess we'll see, but I'm not holding my breath.
They also let Trea Turner walk. Because they understand the necessity of resetting the luxury tax. Revenue sharing and draft/international signing penalties are a real hinderance to an organization. LA has had a functioning talent pipeline for years now that churns out MLB players on low wages. That’s Boston’s goal. Build out the farm system to keep a steady stream of minimum wage help graduating to the majors so that they can use their financial resources to add key players.

Spending like drunken sailors on shore leave in a Hong Kong whorehouse sounds good in theory except that it cripples talent development, forcing you to overspend to add talent. But the more you spend the higher the draft/international spending penalties. You have to periodically reset, even the organizations with more financial resources than Boston follow the model.
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
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Spending like drunken sailors on shore leave in a Hong Kong whorehouse sounds good in theory except that it cripples talent development, forcing you to overspend to add talent. But the more you spend the higher the draft/international spending penalties.
Does anyone ever advocate this? To spend like drunken sailors? This is the common refrain against those that want the Sox to be more aggressive signing players. It is tired, setting up a ridiculous binary and ignoring the reality of points on a continuum. Can we call a moratorium on the "drunken sailor" retort?
 

jbupstate

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Dec 1, 2022
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But the proof is in the pudding: the roster he's built is discernibly worse than the one he inherited.
This is not a direct comment towards you…

For some reason people think Bloom inherited the peak 2018 World Series Championship team. Just check out the 2019 team that finished 84-78. That team was trending down in a big way and had nothing coming up from the minors. On top of a huge GFIN bill coming due. Betts and Xander are huge losses but look at the bench and bullpen.

I do not hold the Betts trade return against Bloom because I can’t figure out how to properly adjust in the $50m for Price.

The rolling over to 2020 team wasn’t a contender and everyone was about to be really expensive and the injuries were still going to happen.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
12,310
Does anyone ever advocate this? To spend like drunken sailors? This is the common refrain against those that want the Sox to be more aggressive signing players. It is tired, setting up a ridiculous binary and ignoring the reality of points on a continuum. Can we call a moratorium on the "drunken sailor" retort?
I mean this thread exists because Boston decided to reset the luxury tax and people are upset about it. When your minor league system is barren then you need free agents everywhere. Even at league average wages your payroll will blow past the luxury tax if you have elite players/contracts. Boston has a big anchor salary on the pitching staff that makes it hard to reset the tax. But, again, over the next 18 months Boston will start graduating players from the minor league system that will make it easier for them to spend elsewhere.
 

OilCanMDS

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Jan 29, 2007
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I went with the first option, but I don't think it was a perfect fit for my view on Bloom coming in. I don't remember any sort of completely negative press on him when he got hired, but I do remember there were rumors that other teams had passed on interviewing him or offering the GM or executive position to him during the offseason before the Sox hired him. I had the impression that he was just a cog in the Tampa front office that rose up to a prominent role due to the departures of others and there was nothing exceptional about him. I think his time here at the Sox so far has reinforced that view, and I've started leaning towards him being bad rather than just an average GM/executive.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
59,965
Are people citing the Price tag to the Mookie deal acknowledging ownership’s fault in that? Otherwise, I don’t see how that’s necessarily a credit to Bloom.
 

MtPleasant Paul

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Dec 28, 2015
161
Me: he's lost my confidence, though I think he's done some things well. But the proof is in the pudding: the roster he's built is discernibly worse than the one he inherited
This is the constant refrain of the Bloomophobes. In fact, he roster he inherited was not the 108 win team of 2018 but the 84 win team of 2019. He also inherited huge debits to two pitchers who would deliver almost nada over the next three years - Chris Sales' new $145,000,000 contract and the $96,000,000 owed to David Price. He inherited a farm system that was barren at the upper levels. On top of this the crown jewels of the position players, Betts and Bogaerts, were about to get much more expensive. As if this all wasn't enough, he was instructed to reset under the luxury tax as the Yankees had just done and as the Dodgers would do three years later.

Contrary to this theme of constant decline Bloom in his second year IMPROVED on the 2019 team winning eight more games and taking them to the ALCS.

Bloom's made his share of mistakes as they all do but, in retrospect, the 2018 champions were poised for a great fall and eventual retrenchment. Bloom was the fall guy who had to pick up the pieces. He has made his mistakes as they all do, but I would argue that he has not done a half bad job and deserves at least another thrree years. That will give us enough time to assess the Yashida and Story contracts and the minor league players he has signed - the likes of Marcelo Mayer, Miguel Bleis, Nick Yorke, Blaze Jordan and Nathan Hickey and the even younger prospects who impressed so many in last year's Dominican Summer League and the Florida complex league.
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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Also, fair or not, my impression of him has evolved into that he doesn't want to make the obvious good move, or the popular move... he wants to make the under the radar, "look, I found 2 WAR for the league minimum" move - while the fans are treated to paying hundreds of dollars to take the family to see Franchy Cordero.
This is a good point. I didn't necessarily have this impression of him just because he came from Tampa. But he's almost become like a caricature at this point. The Renfroe trade was the tipping point for me. 29 YO outfielder who hit 30+ HR? Let's trade him for washed JBJ and a couple of lotto tickets! And then watch him hit 30 HR again while our outfield sucks.
 

simplicio

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Apr 11, 2012
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Greg Allen...no comment required
1. "no comment required" isn't how we do things here. Do your homework and tell us why Greg Allen indicates something bad/good about Bloom's tenure.
2. Greg Allen is a minor league depth deal. If things go wrong and he ends up Boston's starting center fielder and sucks (remember, you probably could have said "Rob Refsnyder..." at some point last year but then he turned out to kick ass) then sure, gripe away. But I'm not sure how a minor league depth signing gives us much insight into Bloom's body of work.
 

8slim

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Nov 6, 2001
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I truly believed that he could/would field a competitive Major League team while simultaneously strengthening the farm system. I do not believe that these are mutually exclusive objectives, especially for a franchise with Boston's financial resources.
I believed this as well, and it is why I want to see the results of 2023 before I make up my mind on Bloom.

Others disagree (strongly!) but I give him a mulligan for the 2020 season, for all the reasons that have been rehashed again and again.

2021 was a good regular season and a very good post-season. Obviously last year stunk, and while injuries played a substantial role, to me Bloom owns the lack of depth and holes in the roster that contributed to the underperformance.

2023 will be very revealing IMHO. If we can be competitive all season and nab a wild card spot while the younger talent on the major league club looks good and the high level prospects in the minors show real promise… I’m onboard. If not, I think it’s fair to say that he’s a disappointment.
 

jose melendez

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Oct 23, 2003
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I was excited. Dombrowski did what he was hired to do and then it was time to move on. Bloom seemed like the perfect person to rebuild the team. My problem is that I don't think he's done a good job. 2021 still feels like mostly luck. The Mookie trade--based on return--has been a disaster. I'd not that if we'd gotten better prospects and not dumped Price, we'd still be free of him today, and none the worse in on field performance. Ultimately, he'll be judged by how he drafts, but the work to date at the ML level is meh at best.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
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Apr 12, 2001
23,630
Entitled and/or spoiled crowd -

- If we don’t win it all the season is a failure - constantly says that FSG is cheap, distracted and care more about racing, soccer and now hockey.
- thinks rich owners should spend all out no matter what and don’t think baseball is a business
- says the Sox should spend enough to win the player auction because they are a big market team and next day complain the overspent in Yoshida, Jansen and Turner
- loves to finds anything about Bloom or Henry to complain about… posture, phrasing and appearances
- thinks Dombrowski keeps the 2018 team intact and wins multiple championships while ignoring 2019 was bad, the farm was dead and Mookie was still going to FA

Not sure anyone can convince me Boston fans haven’t been spoiled these last 20 years. Entitled fans have no patience and say thing like FSG should sell the team so we can have ownership committed to winning and Kraft should can the great coach of all time.

SOSH absolutely ragged on Yankee fans for years for the No championship = Fail

I’m not that smart and don’t think my fandom makes me special. But I know the Sox from 2021 through end of June were a 90+ win team on the field. It’s not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. We still have good players and hopefully more on the horizon.
I'm going to respond to this post with one question (please answer yes or no, anything else will be unread): do you want the Red Sox to have a good year this year?
 

YTF

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Ok, it's perfectly adequate to Bloom's tenure which is totally inadequate for a large market team like Boston IMHO.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/allengr01.shtml

We need good pitching, a real shortstop, a RH hitting outfielder.
No time to research this, but is Allen on the 40 man? Is he blocking anyone? How much did he set us back as far as the cap goes? Minor league rosters need to be filled out as well, yes?
 

sezwho

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Jul 20, 2005
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Also, fair or not, my impression of him has evolved into that he doesn't want to make the obvious good move, or the popular move... he wants to make the under the radar, "look, I found 2 WAR for the league minimum" move - while the fans are treated to paying hundreds of dollars to take the family to see Franchy Cordero.
This really resonated with me! It reminds me of some of the most brilliant technologists I've worked with, who on occasion couldn't see that just because they found a complex but elegant solution to a problem didn't mean it was valuable. At all.

To the Poll, I didn't see quite the right response as I was genuinely quite hopeful but am over this...whatever this is. Its more than the numbers for me: I regularly watched just bad Red Sox baseball last year until I just stopped watching. People who can't field positions turn out to be even more painful for me than throwing away ABs. Am I old now? Anyways, if I'm watching a loser team next year again while I wait for Bloom's majestic '25 run, at least let it play defense. Edit, when I say loser I mean more losses than wins aka <500.
 

jteders1

lurker
Dec 5, 2022
95
I was mostly meh about the hire. Not happy, not mad, just took a wait and see approach. So far he's not met expectations. While folks are correct in pointing out that the roster he inherited was not as good as believed, and was on the downside from 2018, it's also correct to say that the current roster is NOT as good as the 2019 one was. His 2020 season was a train wrech, which you can point to COVID as a potential reason why, but then you also have to say that the first half of 2021 had COVID influance as well, since many teams had players in and out of the lineup as they battled symptomns. We had pretty fortunate health during that time, so maybe our record was inflated. Pythag certainly thinks so. That being said, the farm was in bad shape when he got here and it's improved, signifigantly. The Devers signing shows a plan for future contention in 25, and 26. I'm willing to give Bloom another year, but this team will need to exceed expectations. Similar to how so many of those Rays teams did, and make the playoffs. If not, it's time to move on. We're in year 4, if a PBO hasn't done it by now, he's not going to do it. Giving him another 3 years as suggested abvoe seems like madness to me.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Oct 23, 2001
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Also, fair or not, my impression of him has evolved into that he doesn't want to make the obvious good move, or the popular move... he wants to make the under the radar, "look, I found 2 WAR for the league minimum" move - while the fans are treated to paying hundreds of dollars to take the family to see Franchy Cordero.
I had no preconceptions about Bloom when he started, other than the extra hope that he would succeed because we share an alma mater. Unfortunately, like some Yalies I know, Chaim appears to be too smart for his own good. He outthinks himself. As Hank says above, he'd rather do the complicated and clever than do the obvious. Trade Renfro for JBJ? Sure! Try to acquire Juan Soto? No, thank you! Make a realistic offer to Xander before it's too late? Nope, but let's bid aggressively for some Japanese guy.

It's good to be clever - signing David Ortiz was clever, drafting an under appreciated Dustin Pedroia was clever - but it's not the only way to acquire talent, especially for a team with the resources of the Red Sox. Maybe the resource allocation decision is coming down from ownership and it's not fair to blame Bloom for that, but so far, the attempts to be clever don't seem to have worked out all that well - the trades for prospects, the interest in players who can be acquired on the cheap because they are injury prone, the terrible bench players that have characterized his regime.

Tampa needs to do clever things. We can do more than that. If JHW doesn't want to spend the way he used to, I guess that's his prerogative, so if we're reduced to having to having to rely on cleverness, the front office had better start outsmarting other teams instead of outsmarting itself.
 

torpedero

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Dec 17, 2022
9
No time to research this, but is Allen on the 40 man? Is he blocking anyone? How much did he set us back as far as the cap goes? Minor league rosters need to be filled out as well, yes?
Well said. That deal does not move anything for the Red Sox.
Within a month team will report to ST and we still need (at least):
- reliable starting pitchers
- a real shortstop
- a good hitting RH outfielder
Of course many nice things can still happen before ST if they want to avoid to finish last for the 3rd time in 4 years (*)
Unfortunately due to last three seasons experience I've zero confidence in Bloom's ability but of course I would really glad to be proven wrong. I'm even ready to declare "sorry folks, I'm an incompetent dumb" if required.

(*) maybe for the first time in modern history a 200+ million payroll team finished last
 

tbb345

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I've wasted way too much time explaining why JD was a negative asset that would take giving up something to get off his negative contract.

But let's get into Eo a bit.

Before the deadline, he missed time from June 12th to July 15th with back inflammation, & these were his 1st 3 starts after returning:

7/15 4.1 innings, 3 ER
7/22 2.2 innings, 9 ER
7/27 6 innings, 4 ER

His velocity was also down. It's hard to think people would be lined up to pay over $7m for a couple months of question marks & give up something of value.

& obviously they had interest in bringing him back as they apparently offered him more than what he ended up accepting, & they still get a draft pick for him.
None of us can comment on these things with certainty but all of the available reporting on the trade deadline and JDM says that you’re incorrect.
They wouldn’t have had to attach anything to JDM to get rid of him. The rumors were that the Mets and a few others were willing to trade for him at his salary and give the Sox back a really low level prospect (basically a salary dump)
Chad Jennings reported recently that the organization regretted not just dumping him and getting under the tax but that, at the time, they didn’t want to look like they were punting the season away.
 

tims4wins

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None of us can comment on these things with certainty but all of the available reporting on the trade deadline and JDM says that you’re incorrect.
They wouldn’t have had to attach anything to JDM to get rid of him. The rumors were that the Mets and a few others were willing to trade for him at his salary and give the Sox back a really low level prospect (basically a salary dump)
Chad Jennings reported recently that the organization regretted not just dumping him and getting under the tax but that, at the time, they didn’t want to look like they were punting the season away.
So they did it based on optics, not what was best for the organization. Awful.

Wonder how much optics played into the Devers contract.
 

JM3

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None of us can comment on these things with certainty but all of the available reporting on the trade deadline and JDM says that you’re incorrect.
They wouldn’t have had to attach anything to JDM to get rid of him. The rumors were that the Mets and a few others were willing to trade for him at his salary and give the Sox back a really low level prospect (basically a salary dump)
Chad Jennings reported recently that the organization regretted not just dumping him and getting under the tax but that, at the time, they didn’t want to look like they were punting the season away.
If the Mets/other teams were willing to pay him $8.1m for 2 months in the middle of a period when he looked pretty washed as a player, why weren't they willing to pay him more than $10m for an entire season after a pretty decent September?

Also, I can't imagine anyone in the Red Sox organization being quoted saying that, but I'm sure it might be true to some extent. The optics of giving up a prospect to salary dump JD, or eat some of his salary & get a nothing prospect in return wouldn't be great.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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If the Mets/other teams were willing to pay him $8.1m for 2 months in the middle of a period when he looked pretty washed as a player, why weren't they willing to pay him more than $10m for an entire season after a pretty decent September?
Well, it’s two completely different marketplaces - there are a lot more players available in November than there are in July; but it’s been reported that JD took less to play in LA.
 

JM3

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Well, it’s two completely different marketplaces - there are a lot more players available in November than there are in July; but it’s been reported that JD took less to play in LA.
Do we think someone really offered JD that?

“(Dodgers president of baseball operations) Andrew Friedman and Mookie (Betts) were like college coaches seeking the big recruit,” Boras said, as transcribed by Rosenthal. “J.D. was fully aware of the recent signings and took $6 million to $7 million below his value.
https://nesn.com/2022/12/why-j-d-martinez-took-less-money-to-sign-with-dodgers/

Or is that just Boras saying his guy is really valuable? Regardless, though, I'll drop it....after 1 more stat...

JD Martinez was 2 for 35 between July 13th & August 2nd with 2 singles & 4 walks & 14 strikeouts.
 

8slim

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If the Mets/other teams were willing to pay him $8.1m for 2 months in the middle of a period when he looked pretty washed as a player, why weren't they willing to pay him more than $10m for an entire season after a pretty decent September?

Also, I can't imagine anyone in the Red Sox organization being quoted saying that, but I'm sure it might be true to some extent. The optics of giving up a prospect to salary dump JD, or eat some of his salary & get a nothing prospect in return wouldn't be great.
Is this a serious question? The Mets have made some notable alterations to their roster this offseason, no? I imagine their circumstances and needs in July 2022 were a tad different than they were in December 2022, right?
 

8slim

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Chad Jennings reported recently that the organization regretted not just dumping him and getting under the tax but that, at the time, they didn’t want to look like they were punting the season away.
And this is precisely why I suggested the other day that Henry & Co. aren't a group of emotionless automatrons who are only concerned with advanced metrics and models about player performance degradation over time. The FO has a history of, at times, responding to fan sentiment.
 

JM3

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Is this a serious question? The Mets have made some notable alterations to their roster this offseason, no? I imagine their circumstances and needs in July 2022 were a tad different than they were in December 2022, right?
Sure...they added a few pitchers & Danny Mendick?
 

JM3

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I think the only changes with the hitters is McCann out, Narvaez in & Dom Smith out, Mendick in. Is there more? Conforto out, but he wasn't playing last year.

Starting Pitchers it's:
DeGrom out Verlander in.
Bassit out Senga in.
Walker out Quintana in.

Bullpen:
Lugo out Robertson in.
Williams/May/Givens/Joely out Raley in.
 

8slim

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I think the only changes with the hitters is McCann out, Narvaez in & Dom Smith out, Mendick in. Is there more? Conforto out, but he wasn't playing last year.

Starting Pitchers it's:
DeGrom out Verlander in.
Bassit out Senga in.
Walker out Quintana in.

Bullpen:
Lugo out Robertson in.
Williams/May/Givens/Joely out Raley in.
Sure, my point is that the Mets have brought SIXTEEN new players onto their 40-man this off-season. So it's silly to say that their interest in JD back last July would be the same in November. They've clearly decided to commit immense financial resources to others.
 

jbupstate

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Dec 1, 2022
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I'm going to respond to this post with one question (please answer yes or no, anything else will be unread): do you want the Red Sox to have a good year this year?
Of course.

But my definition of good year probably isn’t yours. I’m looking for progress but expect times of less desired results. N

Payoffs do not equal a good year for me. I believe (maybe wrong) that the Sox are not contenders until the lower minors are supplying players to the big club in hopefully two years.

A good 2023 is above .500 and a chance for players to perform in the Show. Bello, Casas , Yoshida, Whitlock, Houck and Duran/Dalbec/AAA pitchers hopefully produce well enough to increase their status as assets.

I like the Red Sox enough to take my lumps aa a fan, especially now that Devers is signed long term. Sale pitches well, Yoshida hits well and Verdugo inches forward… this team should be competitive

But hey. Tons of “loyal” Sox fans think they are unwatchable and will lose 100 games.