I know this is the Knicks thread but it is amazing to me that everyone simply looks over Cleveland. They have not one, but two, players who can make a case for being a Top-10 guy this year in Mitchell and Mobley, high level guys in Allen and Garland at their respective positions and another 6-7 players who fit in well with the top end of the roster. Belichick would say you are what your record says you are.....30-4 is pretty nuts.
It's criminal. They're not the same team as the 2023-24 Celtics, but they have a similar thing going: "2 elite scorers + shooting/playmaking around them = elite offense". They also have a defensive gear, given how elite Mobley is, and how Mitchell and Garland seem to be trying.
I'm not sure that Boston should be favored over them, unless KP is healthy and looking great.
I made that point last week and was informed that the Cavs lack playoff experience, don't have a top-10 player and aren't serious title contenders.
I don't think anyone is looking over CLE - after all, they are on a 72 win pace. However, while I've not looked at their schedule closely, buzz has it that they've played a lot of the dregs of the NBA and when they've played the better teams, they have missed stars. They are #1 in ORtg in the NBA in large part due to the fact that they are shooting 40.6% from 3P as a team - and most people think that probably won't hold (Caris LaVert is shooting 46% from 3P; Okoro is shooting like 49%).
Finally, while Mobley is certainly an All-Star, this team will go as far as he will take him. If he leaps into the top-10 conversation, yeah they'll be a problem but almost everyone has CLE a step below OKC and BOS.
I do keep forgetting that their 3P% is almost certainly unsustainable.
And you are correct: their remaining schedule is over .500, which is tough to do as an EC team that is elite and can't play itself.
At one point, CLE was undefeated against under .500 teams and X-4 against over .500 teams. But that statistic changes with how ATL is doing as CLE is 28-2 against the NBA other than ATL and 0-2 versus ATL.
If the NBA Gods have any sense of humor, ATL-CLE will be a first round match-up.
My take is they’re not as good as their record suggests but they’re clearly better than they were last year and a real threat to win the EC.I certainly didn’t have them as a threat to 70 wins.
Not sure what to make of them.
Curious - if OKC and CLE were to (god forbid) meet in the Finals, who would you have favored?In regards to SOS. The 3 teams I have with the easiest SOS thus far are the Knicks, Celtics and then the Cavs. It is not correct however as I haven't eliminated their +26 wins from the equation, the Celtics +17 and the Knicks +12. On the inverse, 4 of the 5 "toughest" schedules are the Wizards, Raptors, Jazz and Pelicans. I don't place much weight in these small samples of scheduling unless they are heavily skewed to include long road trips or have yet to taken long road trips. Beating bad things is often associated with weakness.....I don't necessarily buy this angle as it requires a greater focus and process to do so. This is what people were saying about the Mavs down the stretch of last years regular season.
Ask me in a week and a half, after they play a home-and-home against each other between now and then! That will be some appointment viewing.Curious - if OKC and CLE were to (god forbid) meet in the Finals, who would you have favored?
FWIW - updated Vegas NBA Championship oddsCurious - if OKC and CLE were to (god forbid) meet in the Finals, who would you have favored?
In addition to everything else said in this thread, CLE leads the league both in 3P% (.406; 2nd place is MIL at .383 and then NYK at .382) and 2P% (.585; 2nd place is NYK at .577 and then BOS at .575).
Between now and the ASB, they have an interesting schedule - playing home and away against OKC, IND, MIN, HOU, DET, and TOR. They also play BOS, DAL, PHO, and ATL at home. The gimmes are CHA (tonight), the two games against TOR mentioned previously, and @WAS, and likely @MIA.
If they are 50-4 when they get to the ASB, I think people will have a different opinion of them.![]()
That’s Vegas. A lot more NYers betting on the Knicks.FWIW - updated Vegas NBA Championship odds
BOS +200
OKC +350
NYK +1000
CLE +1100
DEN +1600
I'm kind of shocked that the Knicks are still ahead of the CAVs
That’s not really Vegas even though sports betting odds have always been associated with Las Vegas. Most originate offshore but even still the market is shaped from the money that enters from all over the world. Between offshores and sports betting now being legal in 38(?) states the actual dollar amount of wagers placed in Las Vegas is a small percentage of the money that shapes the market.That’s Vegas. A lot more NYers betting on the Knicks.
Where the lines are set isn't really the point, though, is it?That’s not really Vegas even though sports betting odds have always been associated with Las Vegas. Most originate offshore but even still the market is shaped from the money that enters from all over the world. Between offshores and sports betting now being legal in 38(?) states the actual dollar amount of wagers placed in Las Vegas is a small percentage of the money that shapes the market.
That’s what I was getting at. Typing ‘Vegas’ is easier than typing ‘the sports betting industry ‘Where the lines are set isn't really the point, though, is it?
Regardless of where the bets are being placed, NYK over Cavs feels to me like "Not a lot of sharp money on either team at those odds, and MUCH more casual action on the Knicks than the Cavs, even if the Cavs are clearly better."
You'd have a much better sense than me, though. Does that seem like how that line happens?
"Metonym" is the word you're looking for.That’s what I was getting at. Typing ‘Vegas’ is easier than typing ‘the sports betting industry ‘
Overall it’s a casual players market as betting groups with partners aren’t getting involved in futures markets and individual sharp plauers are surely limited as to what they can get down. Hearing the word “Vegas” may be something some understand to not actually mean Vegas but from my experiences it usually does indicate something else as it is now one of the worst options available for sports bettors sans 1-2 books there. It’s always been a pet peeve of mine….no harm intended.Where the lines are set isn't really the point, though, is it?
Regardless of where the bets are being placed, NYK over Cavs feels to me like "Not a lot of sharp money on either team at those odds, and MUCH more casual action on the Knicks than the Cavs, even if the Cavs are clearly better."
You'd have a much better sense than me, though. Does that seem like how that line happens?
Beginning next week they have a 10-day stretch which includes games IN Indiana, OKC, Minnesota, Houston and Philly. Their home games are Indiana, Phoenix and Houston. The Cavs life will be getting significantly more difficult over the next two weeks.73 win pace after tonight. I’ve been waiting for them to come back to Earth but it’s not happening.
They're fun for similar, but not identical, reasons for why the Celtics are fun.They are really fun to watch. If it wasn't for this damn innate attachment to the Celtics I would be a fan
They're last ten wasn't a cakewalk, with wins over the Bucks, Nuggets, Warriors, Lakers, Mavs and Thunder. Even coming back to earth for them probably results in 65+ wins.Beginning next week they have a 10-day stretch which includes games IN Indiana, OKC, Minnesota, Houston and Philly. Their home games are Indiana, Phoenix and Houston. The Cavs life will be getting significantly more difficult over the next two weeks.
I am very high on the Cavaliers, people are sleeping on the fact that Donovan Mitchell is entering Tatum territory. Mobley has also taken a huge leap this year.I think if you like the theory of last year's Cs, you have to be high on the Cavs.
Exactly. What Boston showed last year is that elite offense isn't a dick-measuring contest about "do you have a top-X player???".I am very high on the Cavaliers, people are sleeping on the fact that Donovan Mitchell is entering Tatum territory. Mobley has also taken a huge leap this year.
Hey I've been tooting the Cavs horns all year I'm just saying that they have had the leagues easiest schedule as of last week. I'm a proponent of a team running through bad teams being a GREAT sign and not a "yeah but look who they played" as taking care of business night in and night out is an enormous tell that a team is dialed in and playing great. That list of teams the Cavs beat above must however be taken into context of beating Bucks at home w/o Lillard, Mavs w/o Doncic and Kyrie but yeah winning in Denver and beating the Thunder isn't nothing. All I'm saying is an upcoming 4-4 or even 3-5 stretch shouldn't surprise anyone either.They're last ten wasn't a cakewalk, with wins over the Bucks, Nuggets, Warriors, Lakers, Mavs and Thunder. Even coming back to earth for them probably results in 65+ wins.
They still have the league's easiest schedule, but part of that is that they are in the East, and don't have to play themselves. It's been relatively easy sledding for them, but they've played a harder schedule for a few weeks now. Sweeping their 4 game WC road trip (all comfortable wins) was impressive enough. Their record might dip a bit, but for me at least, they don't have anything left to prove in the regular season.Hey I've been tooting the Cavs horns all year I'm just saying that they have had the leagues easiest schedule as of last week. I'm a proponent of a team running through bad teams being a GREAT sign and not a "yeah but look who they played" as taking care of business night in and night out is an enormous tell that a team is dialed in and playing great. That list of teams the Cavs beat above must however be taken into context of beating Bucks at home w/o Lillard, Mavs w/o Doncic and Kyrie but yeah winning in Denver and beating the Thunder isn't nothing. All I'm saying is an upcoming 4-4 or even 3-5 stretch shouldn't surprise anyone either.
Cavs now 3-5 in their last 8 after dropping their 3rd straight.Hey I've been tooting the Cavs horns all year I'm just saying that they have had the leagues easiest schedule as of last week. I'm a proponent of a team running through bad teams being a GREAT sign and not a "yeah but look who they played" as taking care of business night in and night out is an enormous tell that a team is dialed in and playing great. That list of teams the Cavs beat above must however be taken into context of beating Bucks at home w/o Lillard, Mavs w/o Doncic and Kyrie but yeah winning in Denver and beating the Thunder isn't nothing. All I'm saying is an upcoming 4-4 or even 3-5 stretch shouldn't surprise anyone either.
nice workCavs now 3-5 in their last 8 after dropping their 3rd straight.