Dolphins: Tua Be or Not To Be?

Should Miami Trade for Deshaun Watson

  • Yes. Deshaun is a star. Take the known entity.

    Votes: 68 70.8%
  • No. Build around Tua and forge a stronger overall team.

    Votes: 28 29.2%

  • Total voters
    96
  • Poll closed .

rymflaherty

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It going to lie, my first thought when I saw the news was, that’s stupid, and I was a bit disappointed.

Thing is, I don’t think the people in charge are stupid, so I have to give the benefit of the doubt that they see it as an ingenious way to keep/promote both guys, allow them to emphasize their strengths and foster a collaborative environment. They also all have been working together, so they must think the arrangement will work.
So guess it’s wait and see and hope to hell they are right.

I think I’m also going to skew now toward optimism, for no other reasons than the fact that I went to the Dolphins Reddit page, and being entirely dismissive of the move would seem to align me with the morons.
No offense to anyone that can provide an actual negative argument (sure someone around here likely could), but everything there was rooted in wild assumptions of the relationships and responsibilities within an NFL coaching staff.
 

sodenj5

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Ha, I literally just saw this on Twitter. Passing on Hamilton or McDaniel is pretty surprising.

Godsey has experience as an OC. Studesville has experience as an assistant HC and run game coordinator. Where the confusion lies is who is pulling the trigger on game day and who is the voice in Tua’s ear on Sundays. Is it Godsey? Is it Studesville? Is it Charlie Frye?

We’ve seen NE famously not even name a coordinator on defense when Brian Flores was the “DC but not really the DC.”

It feels like Godsey will essentially be the passing game coordinator, Studesville will be the running game coordinator, and one of them, or maybe Frye, will call the plays on Sunday.
 

sodenj5

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Is there a different McDaniels that I do not know about? Not sure how they could have hired McDaniels since lateral moves are not really an allowed thing in the NFL.
Mike McDaniel. He was the running game coordinator for SF and was recently promoted to OC for them.
 

Carbo Loading

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I was messing around with the PFF mock draft simulator and took a shot at the Dolphins. Here's what I was able to do. They got a ransom from the Eagles to move from 3 to 6 and still got Sewell at 6, along with picking up another future 1st and 2nd in other trades. What do you think Dolphins fans?

39088
 

sodenj5

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I was messing around with the PFF mock draft simulator and took a shot at the Dolphins. Here's what I was able to do. They got a ransom from the Eagles to move from 3 to 6 and still got Sewell at 6, along with picking up another future 1st and 2nd in other trades. What do you think Dolphins fans?

View attachment 39088
The trade value with the Eagles is a home run. Sewell I would be fine with.

Barmore at 18 made me throw up in my mouth. I know he’s thought of highly, but unless he is the best player available by a mile, I can’t see Miami going that way.

Moore is fine and Javonte Williams seems like good value and I really like his fit for Miami. Everything else feels like a meh.

Pros- great trade value for maximizing the third overall pick. (Don’t bring it up in the QB Carousel thread. They’re sure Philly isn’t trading up.)

Cons-Miami’s biggest needs seems to get addressed on the periphery. Sewell would be a great pick, but I would much rather use 18 to get a skill position player. Najee, Etienne. Or a playmaking LB like JOK from Notre Dame.
 

sodenj5

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Just for ha-ha’s, I went and ran a PFF mock with a similar setup, but I traded for a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year.
39089
 

rymflaherty

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I found that a week or so ago. I didn’t rip the Eagles off that much....I just took the 1st and ran lol
Admittedly there was a lot of dart throwing here, as I don’t get wrapped up in the draft as I once did. A lot was just looking at position and the pff ranking, but here’s what mine wound up as...

39121
 
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rymflaherty

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Also, if anyone has an explanation that would make me feel better, or excited about the Aaron Jones rumors...that would be appreciated.

The only scenarios that really seem logical to me are that he has no market and he’s signed for cheap, or the draft falls in a manner where it never makes sense to take a top back and signing Jones winds up a justifiable use of cap space.
 

sodenj5

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Also, if anyone has an explanation that would make me feel better, or excited about the Aaron Jones rumors...that would be appreciated.

The only scenarios that really seem logical to me are that he has no market and he’s signed for cheap, or the draft falls in a manner where it never makes sense to take a top back and signing Jones winds up a justifiable use of cap space.
I hate it. I would much, much rather take one in the draft. Either trade up into the end of round 1 or take in that falls to you in round 2.

Drafting a RB high is not a mistake. Paying one big dollars on a second contract absolutely is.

Jones is a lower mileage back considering he was a part time player his first two seasons, but I still want no part in paying a RB 12-13 million/year. I would guess, based on how Miami has structured their deals recently, a deal would basically be 2 years/24 million dollars with option years and non-guaranteed money on the back end.
 

Clears Cleaver

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I was thinking...imagine if they didn't draft Tua last year and took Simmons or one of the WRs...they'd be in same place this year and almost a lock to get Watson.
 

rymflaherty

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I think I’m moving toward irrationally supporting Tua, for no other reason than the national media skewing so far in the other direction.
Listening to ESPN draft coverage and hearing the same people that told me Tua was a generational prospect last year, now argue that Sam Darnold has more value, makes my head explode. It’s made me actually want to root for Tua and have him prove people wrong.
 

sodenj5

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I think I’m moving toward irrationally supporting Tua, for no other reason than the national media skewing so far in the other direction.
Listening to ESPN draft coverage and hearing the same people that told me Tua was a generational prospect last year, now argue that Sam Darnold has more value, makes my head explode. It’s made me actually want to root for Tua and have him prove people wrong.
I don’t want to rehash everything all over again, but I said it before and I’ll say it again. You probably just saw Tua’s floor in 2020. And Miami was 6-3 and nearly made the playoffs.

I think we saw flashes of his upside against AZ and against KC.

Give him a RB. Give him 1-2 good WRs. Give him a full offseason of not recovering from a career threatening injury.

I personally feel like he’s going to play with a huge chip on his shoulder in 2021 and you will see him take the year 2 jump. But I’m also a homer and an irrational optimist, so YMMV.
 

snowmanny

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I heard Pat Kirwan on NFL radio arguing that the number one player the Dolphins should Target is James White.
 

rymflaherty

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I think I’d be able to get behind a White signing, assuming they don’t draft someone like Etienne.
I’m generally pro any mid-low tier free agent that has a specific skill set that can supplement a roster. Assuming White isn’t already cooked at this age, sure Pats fans could speak to that, he’d meet that definition to me.
 

snowmanny

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Part of it was get a running back that you know can run routes and catch the ball and save your picks for other players.
 

sodenj5

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I heard Pat Kirwan on NFL radio arguing that the number one player the Dolphins should Target is James White.
Funny as it might sound, I would still take Le’Veon Bell on a cheaper one year deal to be a rotational/third down RB. I know he didn’t play a ton with KC, but I feel like he’s still a plus receiving back and I can’t imagine his market will be very high this year. James White fits in that same mold.

Obviously still hoping they decide to draft a premier RB late in round 1 or round 2 in the draft. Najee feels like a true 3 down RB, and looks to be a plus receiver. Javonte Williams might be more of a 2 down power back and you might need to supplement him with a better receiver out of the backfield on third downs.
 

sodenj5

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Cameron Wolfe seemed to drop the news first and mentions that the deal isn’t official yet, but likely going their separate ways.

View: https://twitter.com/cameronwolfe/status/1366809854866829317?s=21


What this tells me is two things, Miami is looking to go shopping again this offseason, and I would be surprised if they go RB at 18 now. I think Zaven Collins and JOK jump to the top of the list at 18 for Miami.
 

sodenj5

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https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe
I love these kind of 'buy-low' moves.
Just saw this. I mean, clearly the guy had issues last year but as tremendous upside. Miami adds another big body to the wall. Also a swap of 7th means this is basically zero-risk from Miami.

Hard to pencil him in right now as anything other than a lottery ticket, but if he can plug in at RT, that kicks Hunt in to RG and Kindley to LG. You’ve suddenly got a very big, physical, young o-line setting up in front of Tua.
 
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Clears Cleaver

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Can someone tell me what his issues are/were? Dolphins are on the hook to pay Wilson $4M+ the next three years total, which is peanuts basically. How awful must he be to have the titans drop him after one year?
 

BigSoxFan

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Can someone tell me what his issues are/were? Dolphins are on the hook to pay Wilson $4M+ the next three years total, which is peanuts basically. How awful must he be to have the titans drop him after one year?
Got a DUI last Fall. Trespass warning at another local college. Posted as recently as a few weeks ago on social media that he was “done with football”. Seems to be a bit of a troubled kid and the Titans’ GM openly questioned his commitment so there had to have been lots of other stuff behind the scenes.

This likely won’t work out but worth a shot given the zero cost.
 

sodenj5

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Got a DUI last Fall. Trespass warning at another local college. Posted as recently as a few weeks ago on social media that he was “done with football”. Seems to be a bit of a troubled kid and the Titans’ GM openly questioned his commitment so there had to have been lots of other stuff behind the scenes.

This likely won’t work out but worth a shot given the zero cost.
True lottery ticket but reportedly he and Solomon Kindley are close and Flores might be able to get through to him since they came from the same shitty background. Also he said he was done playing football for the Titans. So could be something with the coaches or team that rubbed him the wrong way.

If his head isn’t on straight, he doesn’t make the 53 man roster.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Thanks guys. Seems like no brainer to try, especially if they saw something in him pre-draft. Flores probably feels he can kick the kid's ass and get him on the right path
 

sodenj5

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View: https://twitter.com/cameronwolfe/status/1371141566006444035?s=21


Miami moving on from their second big OLB FA signing from last year. Lawson was firmly in the solid category. Not amazing.

McKinney is basically a really good version of Elandon Roberts.

Didn’t think we would be here, but it looks like Miami is going to go shopping for an edge defender again in free agency. And based on who they got rid of and the void they have, I would imagine they want one that can pressure the QB, since Lawson probably didn’t do that as well as they hoped and KVN was more of an interior blitzer than an edge rusher.

Who are the names? Carl Lawson. Bud Dupree. I would say Miami is going to take a hard run at one of those 2 to bring in more pass rush.

Also if signing a more premiere name at OLB prevents them from signing Aaron Jones, I consider that an added bonus.
 

Clears Cleaver

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No Aaron Jones...phew. Von Miller? Clearly there is a plan here that will likely make sense by tomorrow. I think they'll sign one big name FA edge guy, one RB, one C/G and one big WR. I expect Grant and others gone and them to restructure Byron Jones, so I think they'll have $40-45M available. After the trade they picked up another $2M, leaving them with $35M. I expect $20-$25M of that will go to edge and WR (Samuel?)
 

sodenj5

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No Aaron Jones...phew. Von Miller? Clearly there is a plan here that will likely make sense by tomorrow. I think they'll sign one big name FA edge guy, one RB, one C/G and one big WR. I expect Grant and others gone and them to restructure Byron Jones, so I think they'll have $40-45M available. After the trade they picked up another $2M, leaving them with $35M. I expect $20-$25M of that will go to edge and WR (Samuel?)
Honestly relieved that Aaron Jones resigned with Green Bay. I would much rather pay and edge rusher and WR and draft a RB than pay a RB and try and piece together a pass rush.
 

sodenj5

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View: https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1371611016992337921?s=21


Seems like Miami is circling the top of the free agent WRs.

If I had to choose between Golladay, JuJu, or Curtis Samuel, I would say Samuel, JuJu, Golladay in that order.

Samuel and JuJu bring something different to Miami’s offense. Samuel is explosive and can play all over the formation. JuJu brings versatility and toughness. He can play outside or as a big slot. Say what you want about his TikToks, the guy gets it done on the field and had Big Ben throwing him three yard crossers the last year plus.

Golladay feels redundant with Parker. You can argue he’s better or more consistent than Parker, but they’re very similar players.
 

rymflaherty

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I don’t think any of those receivers are worth a large investment. Honestly, I’d rather play Will Fuller than any of those three.

JuJu though would be my least favorite. Guy was the third best receiver on his team, and his best output has directly coordinated to being in ideal situations - I.e. - HOF QB, paddy heavy offense, opposite the best receiver in the league, etc.
 

sodenj5

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Miami signs Jacoby Brissett to be QB2 this year. They also sign Malcom Brown previously of the Rams.

Jacoby a good veteran to back up Tua. Brown a good, physical runner. Plays how they probably envisioned Jordan Howard playing last year.

The WR market still playing chicken at this point. Speculation on Twitter is a deep, high end WR class, lowered salary cap, and the top guys being more WR2 than WR1 has killed the market. Miami wise to be patient.

Also Rodney Hudson became available today and I would be highly, highly interested in adding him as well.
 

sodenj5

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Miami continues to supplement the roster with former Patriots.

Justin Coleman signed to a 1 year deal. Likely coming in to compete with Nik Needham for the slot corner role. Good depth and familiarity with Boyer and Flores.

Adam Butler is a bit surprising in a good way. With Seiler, Wilkins, and Davis, I would imagine a dude like Butler could have gotten a better gig somewhere else looking for more snaps.

Miami’s D Line looking really good now. They obviously still need an edge defender and they’re still waiting on the WRs.
 

rymflaherty

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I wouldn’t have minded getting Samuel at the 3/34.5 he got from Washington.

it will be interesting to see what happens with the bigger name WR’s that are left. Probably wishful thinking that the lack of movement is representative of a depressed market.
 

sodenj5

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The WR domino finally dropped.

View: https://twitter.com/mikegarafolo/status/1372718867378802690?s=21


Fuller is a tremendous add. On a cheap (or cheaper than expected) 1 year deal, you know he will be highly motivated to stay on the field and be productive. Simply put, one of the most explosive deep threats in the game. His skill set compliments what Miami has in place. His ability should force defenses to respect his speed and open up the short to intermediate routes that Tua can feast on.
 

Jungleland

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The WR domino finally dropped.

View: https://twitter.com/mikegarafolo/status/1372718867378802690?s=21


Fuller is a tremendous add. On a cheap (or cheaper than expected) 1 year deal, you know he will be highly motivated to stay on the field and be productive. Simply put, one of the most explosive deep threats in the game. His skill set compliments what Miami has in place. His ability should force defenses to respect his speed and open up the short to intermediate routes that Tua can feast on.
If last year was real, Fuller might have been the WR prize of the offseason. If it wasn't, he's still a very solid complement to Parker. Really good signing for Miami.
 

rymflaherty

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It’s odd, and refreshing, that this team is doing all the things that I find logical.

So with that in mind, I’m calling it right now...
If the team keeps their picks, which granted is a big “if”, they are taking Chase. Then the value/need intersection at #18 will be either an OT or front 7 guy on Defense. And then it’s see if one of the top backs is there at the top of the second.
 

sodenj5

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Miami already moving on from Isaiah Wilson. Hope he gets the help he needs

View: https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/1373283110561927173?s=21



It’s odd, and refreshing, that this team is doing all the things that I find logical.

So with that in mind, I’m calling it right now...
If the team keeps their picks, which granted is a big “if”, they are taking Chase. Then the value/need intersection at #18 will be either an OT or front 7 guy on Defense. And then it’s see if one of the top backs is there at the top of the second.
I would be shocked at this point if they stay at 3 and make a selection. Flores has already not so subtly hinted that they’re exploring trading down inside the top 10. Carolina makes a ton of sense as a trade partner.

Drop down to 8, still very likely you get a high end WR or Kyle Pitts. Pick up and extra 2 and maybe another 1 for next year.
 

sodenj5

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Miami resigns Elandon Roberts. No terms yet, but Roberts was a treat to watch against the run. Both he and McKinney are two big run stuffers in the middle.

I assume this move will likely push Jerome Baker to WLB in base defense, and will free him up to do more in coverage and blitzing and not have to get bodied in the middle as much.
 

rymflaherty

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If they trade down, which I agree is setting up to be the best course of action, they’ll be able to hold an auction and certainly get a first for next year.

I was curious to see what others were saying, as I didn’t want to overestimate Miami’s hand due to a bias, so I found an article from The Charlotte Observer, their expectation of a trade for the Panthers to move to 3 would be the swap of 1sts this year, a 2nd or 3rd this year, a first and another mid/late round pick next year.
 

sodenj5

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If they trade down, which I agree is setting up to be the best course of action, they’ll be able to hold an auction and certainly get a first for next year.

I was curious to see what others were saying, as I didn’t want to overestimate Miami’s hand due to a bias, so I found an article from The Charlotte Observer, their expectation of a trade for the Panthers to move to 3 would be the swap of 1sts this year, a 2nd or 3rd this year, a first and another mid/late round pick next year.
Seems to be the consensus. I would say a minimum is going to be a swap a 3 and 8, a 2021 2nd, and a 2022 1st. Anything beyond that is gravy.

I think the Panthers make the most sense, but I wouldn’t rule out Denver or Philly. I think Miami definitely wants to stay inside the top 10, so I don’t see SF or NE being viable partners.

Most mocks seem to agree that Miami takes a WR with their first pick and a defender with their second pick, with a few sprinkling in Najee Harris at 18.

If Miami walks away from round 1 with a receiver (Waddle, Chase, or Pitts), Najee Harris, an extra 2, and an extra 1 for next year, that’s a grand salami.
 

Ed Hillel

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Obviously an excellent return. Wonder if they’ll trade up or would take Jones if on the board.
 

swiftaw

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So basically they traded 3rd and 124th pick this season for 6th and 103rd pick this season and a first round in 2023?