Doogie Drains 3s the Sam Hauser Thread

Jimbodandy

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I love you, man. But, no. He is holding his own for now. He is not good guarding the ball by NBA standards. He hasn't be terrible consistently which is good.
I am on team Constanza on this. He stays in front of everyone, and he's being targeted more than anyone on the team.

At this point, it feels like the burden of proof is on the disbelievers.
 

Euclis20

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I am on team Constanza on this. He stays in front of everyone, and he's being targeted more than anyone on the team.

At this point, it feels like the burden of proof is on the disbelievers.
+1. He was 1st in the league in net rating coming into tonight, that doesn't happen if you can't at least play below average defense. He's absolutely not a liability on D.
 

lovegtm

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+1. He was 1st in the league in net rating coming into tonight, that doesn't happen if you can't at least play below average defense. He's absolutely not a liability on D.
+1 to the burden of proof being on the doubters. The dude is a solid, average NBA defender.

We need to change the conversation soon to his offense, and how much more varied it is than just standing above the arc waiting for shots. He does a lot in screening actions, makes reads, and is even not uncomfortable with the ball on the floor. Feels like he has a lot more offensive upside as they figure out how to use his gravity and BBIQ alongside Brogdon and Tatum.
 

Jakarta

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I am on team Constanza on this. He stays in front of everyone, and he's being targeted more than anyone on the team.

At this point, it feels like the burden of proof is on the disbelievers.
I think the bolded nails it. He stays in front of people without fouling. He’s not “disruptive” as I don’t think he gets a lot of deflections or steals, but he stays in front of his man and contests shots. Writing that last sentence made me think he might be a better defender than Semi ever was!
 

lovegtm

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I think the bolded nails it. He stays in front of people without fouling. He’s not “disruptive” as I don’t think he gets a lot of deflections or steals, but he stays in front of his man and contests shots. Writing that last sentence made me think he might be a better defender than Semi ever was!
It's funny that Hauser is much better at both the 3 and the D than Semi ever was (except against Giannis lol).
 

PedroKsBambino

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We've already seen pup-culture oriented "Doogie Houser" reference.

A bit more topical, though also perhaps more totured, can we go anywhere fun with House(r) of the Dragons? A few Dragon names---because they breath fire like Houser---from the season include Seasmoke...Syrax....Balerion. Any of those interesting?
 

Fishy1

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Interesting. I wonder if part of this effect is that guys who usually wouldn't hunt for ISO matchups do so because they imagine that they can cook Hauser, but their eyes are bigger than their stomach. Hauser is absolutely an NBA defender and some of the guys who have been "hunting" him are absolutely not NBA-quality ISO scorers. Don't have time to dig into the statistics right now but would be an interesting phenomenon to explore. I remember this happening with Grant last year, as a lot of NBA defenders were expecting him to be the beefy guy from the year before with slow feet.
 

Euclis20

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Even if he ends up being a league average defender he's gonna keep being hunted, if only because 90% of the time he's the worst defender on the floor for Boston.
 

benhogan

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splooge-fest recommence

Even if he ends up being a league average defender he's gonna keep being hunted, if only because 90% of the time he's the worst defender on the floor for Boston.
Derrick White, a good defender, gets hunted due to his size

The idea of Hunting Hauser was based on him easily getting beat due to poor footwork, using his hands, and fouling galore (think early Theis/Grant season 2). Except he doesn't foul, shows his hands and has decent footwork.

He uses his size to challenge being bullied/backed down into the paint. Most importantly Hauser is being used mainly against 2nd units where, as Fishy noted above, the best ISO scorers don't reside.
 

Reverend

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splooge-fest recommence


Derrick White, a good defender, gets hunted due to his size

The idea of Hunting Hauser was based on him easily getting beat due to poor footwork, using his hands, and fouling galore (think early Theis/Grant season 2). Except he doesn't foul, shows his hands and has decent footwork.

He uses his size to challenge being bullied/backed down into the paint. Most importantly Hauser is being used mainly against 2nd units where, as Fishy noted above, the best ISO scorers don't reside.
I think a lot of the earlier concerns about Hauser, as with Kornet, is that people didn’t foresee a second unit kicking the shit out of other teams rather than just being a kind of layover, which is the norm. Brogdon being a bench player is amazing. Going ten deep is amazing, and lets starters play more with “the second unit.” Team sport and the whole being greater than the sum of the parts and stuff.
 

benhogan

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I think a lot of the earlier concerns about Hauser, as with Kornet, is that people didn’t foresee a second unit kicking the shit out of other teams rather than just being a kind of layover, which is the norm. Brogdon being a bench player is amazing. Going ten deep is amazing, and lets starters play more with “the second unit.” Team sport and the whole being greater than the sum of the parts and stuff.
Danny/Brad kind of knew they needed that 2nd unit wing sniper and spent 2 years running Aaron Nesmith out there (Carsen for a season before). PP filled in admirably in that spot in the playoffs last year but Hauser takes it up a notch on both sides of the floor

Brogdon in the 2nd unit is just gluttonous. Many on this board have been drooling over him since Milwaukee traded him to a conference rival.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think Hauser has been trying to expand his shooting game over the past few weeks. Beyond standard catch and shoot, he's taken a few shots coming around picks, faster release to shoot over closeouts, etc. At the same time, to my eye, he's mostly taking his threes from the line - I sort of expected he'd be trying to hit deeper ones but he really hasn't yet.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Sort of cross posting from the general thread and the video of the Kings defense Friday—I haven’t seen anything in iso D situations from Hauser that’s anywhere near as bad as whatever Huerter was doing when matched up in a tough spot. He was practically a walking layup line.

He was a guy a lot of us had an eye on this offseason due to offensive fit but once again the combo of Hauser/Brogdon seems way more valuable.
 

lovegtm

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Sort of cross posting from the general thread and the video of the Kings defense Friday—I haven’t seen anything in iso D situations from Hauser that’s anywhere near as bad as whatever Huerter was doing when matched up in a tough spot. He was practically a walking layup line.

He was a guy a lot of us had an eye on this offseason due to offensive fit but once again the combo of Hauser/Brogdon seems way more valuable.
Yup, that's a concise version of something I've said before: for some reason, Hauser is being held to a bizarrely high standard on D relative to other offensively-minded players.

And it's not a race thing! Huerter is white. Maybe it's that Huerter was a mid 1st rounder who's more athletic, so people assume he's fine?
 

slamminsammya

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Interesting. I wonder if part of this effect is that guys who usually wouldn't hunt for ISO matchups do so because they imagine that they can cook Hauser, but their eyes are bigger than their stomach. Hauser is absolutely an NBA defender and some of the guys who have been "hunting" him are absolutely not NBA-quality ISO scorers. Don't have time to dig into the statistics right now but would be an interesting phenomenon to explore. I remember this happening with Grant last year, as a lot of NBA defenders were expecting him to be the beefy guy from the year before with slow feet.
To my eyes this has definitely been a thing. Some of the guys going after him are not that good, they just go to whoever he picks up.
 

HomeRunBaker

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To my eyes this has definitely been a thing. Some of the guys going after him are not that good, they just go to whoever he picks up.
He’s white, not very athletic and looks slow. Guys like this have been hunted on the basketball court for decades…..both in the gym and especially on the playgrounds.

I remember hearing someone tell a Larry Bird story about him walking by the opponents bench questioning the coaches sanity for “putting a white guy on me.” White players have always had to prove themselves on the basketball court. It is what it is.
 

Reverend

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He’s white, not very athletic and looks slow. Guys like this have been hunted on the basketball court for decades…..both in the gym and especially on the playgrounds.

I remember hearing someone tell a Larry Bird story about him walking by the opponents bench questioning the coaches sanity for “putting a white guy on me.” White players have always had to prove themselves on the basketball court. It is what it is.
The version of the same story I’ve heard also has Bird saying to the guy, “Does your coach hate you or something?”
 

slamminsammya

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He’s white, not very athletic and looks slow. Guys like this have been hunted on the basketball court for decades…..both in the gym and especially on the playgrounds.

I remember hearing someone tell a Larry Bird story about him walking by the opponents bench questioning the coaches sanity for “putting a white guy on me.” White players have always had to prove themselves on the basketball court. It is what it is.
I used to wear thick James Worthy style rec specs in college, but I could jump pretty good and played a lot so I knew where to be. I even dunked once. But every time playing pickup with a new group guys would just ignore me or try to clown me cuz they see the specs. It would take a couple plays for them to take me seriously.
 

nighthob

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The version of the same story I’ve heard also has Bird saying to the guy, “Does your coach hate you or something?”
The best version of the story was the game that he tortured Rodman and kept pretending that the worm wasn’t there at all when asking Daly “Hey, why aren’t you using a defender on me? You guys really need to cover me.”
 

HomeRunBaker

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The version of the same story I’ve heard also has Bird saying to the guy, “Does your coach hate you or something?”
Flashbacks. When I was in college during an official scrimmage leading into our season I was on a heater. After hitting 3-4 three’s in a row on the way up the court I took the honor of telling the opposing coach that he should probably call a timeout bc I can do this all night if he doesn’t. He called the timeout and chased me all the way to the bench screaming at me. His coaches and our coach had to hold him back. Afterward, my Coach (all 65 years of him) had a talk w me about how I can’t tell the other coach to call a timeout…..with a smirk at the end. RIP Coach, you had more stories than I do. Edit: I should share some one of these days.

There really never was a feeling quite so powerful as when you’re in a rhythm with the confidence to. know that as long as you get a semi-clean look the shot is going down. I’ll never not miss that feeling.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Hauser had 2 blocks tonight, giving him 6 for the season. That is... Semi Ojeleye's career high for blocks in a season.
 

the moops

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Did Charlotte abandon any notion of trying to ISO Hauser? I don't recall seeing them try.
I think CHA abandoned any notion of any sort of offensive plan. Their offense looked so gross. Hauser did get beat a few times, once back door that was pretty poor play, but he does not look out of place out there on defense
 

lovegtm

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Karalis/ Westerholm did a 2021 redraft for Sam Hauser

Westerholm a little more bullish, has him around #15. Karalis does his normal hedge, late teens

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcshclwMTmk
Regardless of "re-draft" hypotheticals, hitting on Hauser (and to a much lesser degree, Kornet) and having him for 3 cheaper-than-vet-min years makes up for not making 1st rounders a few years in a row, budget-wise. Obviously on the court, those 1st rounders became White, Brogdon, and Horford, so even better.
 

Koufax

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??

When I click on the Net Rating, I see several players between Hauser and Jokic, such as Kawai Leonard. Derrick White is 10th on the list, not 5th.
 

JM3

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??

When I click on the Net Rating, I see several players between Hauser and Jokic, such as Kawai Leonard. Derrick White is 10th on the list, not 5th.
The secondary list defaults to a 15-minute (all season) minimum to qualify whereas the list I posted has the normal qualifying requirements.

Technically Hauser is 22nd on that list if you change that minimum to 0 minutes.

ETA - here's the page with the list I posted: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced-leaders

Hauser is also 2nd in ortg & TS% & 3rd in eFG.
 
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Jimbodandy

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Karalis/ Westerholm did a 2021 redraft for Sam Hauser

Westerholm a little more bullish, has him around #15. Karalis does his normal hedge, late teens

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcshclwMTmk
Obviously some guys that haven't blossomed yet have humongous upside that Sam doesn't have.

But...if you go by VORP (which is crap but is something), Sam comes in #8 at 0.6. Those above him:
1. Barnes 2.3
2. Mobley 2.1
3. H. Jones 1.0
4. Franz 1.0
5. T. Murphy 0.8
6. Bones 0.7
7. Sengun 0.7
8. Sam 0.7

I'd suspect that guys like Cade and Giddey and a couple of others stop doing high-volume young guy stupid things and flip their negative numbers.

Hauser as late lottery guy seems about right.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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As a general observation, looking up stats right now can be a challenge if you don't filter for things like games played and minutes.

I really want to see what Hauser's production looks like after we get into the new year. He has kind of answered questions about whether he can hang on D but if teams figure out ways to get him uncomfortable enough to miss more, does his D matter?

His shot making seems real and sustainable however this league is very good at seeking out weaknesses and exploiting them mercilessly. What will these numbers look like with more scouting?
 

Jimbodandy

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As a general observation, looking up stats right now can be a challenge if you don't filter for things like games played and minutes.

I really want to see what Hauser's production looks like after we get into the new year. He has kind of answered questions about whether he can hang on D but if teams figure out ways to get him uncomfortable enough to miss more, does his D matter?

His shot making seems real and sustainable however this league is very good at seeking out weaknesses and exploiting them mercilessly. What will these numbers look like with more scouting?
FWIW, I think that teams are starting to play tighter on him already. This will hurt his counting stats somewhat, but it will open the floor for others. Gravity is good.
 

DGreenwood

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As a general observation, looking up stats right now can be a challenge if you don't filter for things like games played and minutes.

I really want to see what Hauser's production looks like after we get into the new year. He has kind of answered questions about whether he can hang on D but if teams figure out ways to get him uncomfortable enough to miss more, does his D matter?

His shot making seems real and sustainable however this league is very good at seeking out weaknesses and exploiting them mercilessly. What will these numbers look like with more scouting?
I think the issue for opposing teams is that they can't stop giving up open shots to the Celtics. It's not about effort and/or scouting. The Celtics ball movement is so good that open shots are tough to prevent.
 

lovegtm

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As a general observation, looking up stats right now can be a challenge if you don't filter for things like games played and minutes.

I really want to see what Hauser's production looks like after we get into the new year. He has kind of answered questions about whether he can hang on D but if teams figure out ways to get him uncomfortable enough to miss more, does his D matter?

His shot making seems real and sustainable however this league is very good at seeking out weaknesses and exploiting them mercilessly. What will these numbers look like with more scouting?
How many good shooters are there who the league "figured out" in the sense that it made them worse at shooting consistently?

I can't really think of any; there are the guys who had it and then lost it (Duncan and Bertans), but they were taking tough shots when they were good--the league didn't make those tougher.
 

DavidTai

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I really want to see what Hauser's production looks like after we get into the new year. He has kind of answered questions about whether he can hang on D but if teams figure out ways to get him uncomfortable enough to miss more, does his D matter?
I just want him to get to the point where we can call him Dr. Doogie Hauser, 3D.
 

Koufax

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Indeed. Gravity is great when he's your 10th man
10th? He's 8th in minutes played. If you bring back RW, that might not change because RW will come back slowly, but it would push him to 9th on the talent list, unless of course you put Kornet ahead of him, which would not be crazy but I wouldn't do it.
 

benhogan

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10th? He's 8th in minutes played. If you bring back RW, that might not change because RW will come back slowly, but it would push him to 9th on the talent list, unless of course you put Kornet ahead of him, which would not be crazy but I wouldn't do it.
yea somewhere around 8 or 9 or 10 depending on load mgmt/injuries/matchups

Grant was 5th in minutes played last season but I'm not sure if he was even considered the 7th man (not that it really matters)

Hauser having NBA teams scheme for him (if that's really happening to a large degree) and opening up the floor for Brogdon/Tatum is a massive win
 
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Jimbodandy

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yea somewhere around 8 or 9 or 10 depending on load mgmt/injuries

Grant was 5th in minutes played last season but I'm not sure if he was even considered the 7th man
I have him at 8, 9 when TL returns. But you were on a roll...

edit: DARKO has him at 9, once you remove TL and Gallinari
 

benhogan

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Per NBA.com, Hauser plays isolation defense on 20.1 percent of his possessions, the third-highest mark in the league. Translation: when he plays, he’s frequently hunted on defense. His most ardent fans would never label him a defensive dynamo, but it’s surprising how well he’s held up on that end of the floor.

Hauser allows 0.94 points per possession in isolation defense. It’s not an elite mark, but it’s about league average. On average, teams score 1.12 points per possession, so Hauser’s 0.94 figure is perfectly adequate.

Maybe, just maybe, we should start taking Hauser’s defense more seriously. His 108.8 defensive rating is the top mark on the team. That’s likely because teams mistakenly think he’s a defensive liability, and attacking him in isolation leads to inefficient offense.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/11/30/23485112/hunting-sam-hauser-3s-vs-defense
 

JM3

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Some stats should be permenently banned from the internet.
Lol I've been somewhat of a Hauser skeptic (oops), but I saw that when I was looking for something else & thought it was fun enough for this thread.