Duran homophobic slur fallout thread; suspended 2 games

mauidano

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Aug 21, 2006
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Yeah, I think Duran's maybe a bit of a dummy, but even I don't think he's THAT dumb. But I suppose there's a lot I don't know.
Start by not assuming pro athletes are superhumans and intelligent just because they have exceptional physical skills.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
― George Carlin
 

NomarG

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Aug 14, 2016
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As someone with bipolar disorder I can say that I have said horrible, hateful things prior to be being medicated. Oftentimes these things would come out in an episode of rage that I wouldn’t remember after. Is it appropriate to blame his words on mental illness? I don’t know. I still struggle with shame and guilt from things that I said or did 20 years ago prior to being hospitalized and being put on lithium. He’s going to have to live with this and maybe that’s enough. It would be for me. Having to look at myself in the mirror everyday is difficult as is without also having the shame of saying what he did. I hope he learns from it and gets the help he needs cause ultimately careers go fast and he is already 28ish. These are just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
 

simplicio

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That's...kinda the point. The person saying it has so much revulsion for gay people that calling a straight man that is an insult: it's saying he's less masculine.

See, also, 'p***y'.

It's referring to someone as something 'beneath them' (because straight white men are the top of the food chain) hence the insult.
Exactly. The problem isn't attempting to insult the heckler here, it's saying LGBTQ people as a population are less than.
 

Brianish

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That's...kinda the point. The person saying it has so much revulsion for gay people that calling a straight man that is an insult: it's saying he's less masculine.

See, also, 'p***y'.

It's referring to someone as something 'beneath them' (because straight white men are the top of the food chain) hence the insult.
Truly maddening that this needs to be explained in 2024.
 

Rasputin

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Appreciate the dialogue! Thank you!

The slur was directed at one person. We have no idea of the lifestyle of that person and Duran most likely has no idea either. So it wasn't a personal attack. The one who should be most offended is the instigator of the back-and-forth. Duran had a knee-jerk reaction and was wrong for even replying. He has rabbit ears. It's not the first time he has responded to fans yelling at him. This has had severe consequences.

Our opinions, right or wrong, are emotions based on the entirety of the situation. We are appalled of course and no way can condone his behaviour. He sounds very remorseful and he should be forgiven as he continues to be educated on right and wrong. He is learning a VERY hard lesson for his inability to tune out hecklers. He is human and we would all hope to be forgiven if we were in his shoes.

The hardest part is saying "I was wrong and I'm sorry." The next hardest is forgiving.

This Netflix series next year is going to be off-the-chain interesting.
Slurs, by their nature, are not directed at a single person, but at a class of people. If they weren't, they wouldn't have any power. He said something he knows is offensive to a lot of people and the best case scenario is that he didn't think about it. He should think about what he says.
 

mauidano

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Slurs, by their nature, are not directed at a single person, but at a class of people. If they weren't, they wouldn't have any power. He said something he knows is offensive to a lot of people and the best case scenario is that he didn't think about it. He should think about what he says.
If he learns from this experience, and we all hope and believe he will, Jarren will be a better human going forward. That's the end goal going forward.
 

LogansDad

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If he learns from this experience, and we all hope and believe he will, Jarren will be a better human going forward. That's the end goal going forward.
I agree, but that is something that will take time to tell if it is actually happening. Even if he makes an apologetic statement today/tonight, he won't be forgiven quickly. I believe that people can grow and get better, and Jarren should receive that opportunity.

But it will be difficult to cheer for him in three days when he is back in the lineup.


I have not been a fan of Duran's presentation -- from the anti-vax, tattoos, and haircut. All suggest a rock-head raised by a meathead father.
This statement is not nearly as bad or hurtful as what Duran said, but it isn't good, either. Lots of awesome people have tattoos and weird haircuts, my wife being one and my sister being another. And I have a pretty fantastic dad.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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“Yankees suck” is a homophobic slur. I cringe when a Fenway crowd takes up that cheer.

For some reason, “you suck,” which is short for “you suck dick,” implying homosexuality when directed at a male, has become borderline acceptable.
 

AbbyNoho

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I'm not surprised by Duran. This sort of thing never doesn't sting, but it there's a level of desensitization I have because I'm so used to it in certain social circles. There's no way he hasn't said it before, if he said it so easily. That's the more upsetting thing.

Does anyone remember the "It Gets Better" campaign the Red Sox participated in back in 2011? It probably seemed sappy or pointless to most fans, but as a very young transgender person I can't express how much it meant to me. It was the first time the sports world I loved could also be a safe welcoming space to me too. The Red Sox don't owe me anything but I hope they take an opportunity to do something positive again. It's a tough time right now in the overlap of LGBTQ/athletics.
 

strek1

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“Yankees suck” is a homophobic slur. I cringe when a Fenway crowd takes up that cheer.

For some reason, “you suck,” which is short for “you suck dick,” implying homosexuality when directed at a male, has become borderline acceptable.
IMO there are an awful lot of people who do not make that connection at all. Hence the the term "that sucks" which just decribes a crummy situation. It's kind of evolved past the original intent.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Sincere question, if he had turned on a black fan and called him the N-word, would you have the same wait and see response?

Edit: Also, what are the actions? Of course he is going to issue an apologetic statement. He'll do a press conference with some carefully selected not-for-profit and talk about how he has learned and wants to come out of this a better man. For me, those actions will speak a lot more quietly than the word.

But I also want to acknowledge my stridency around stuff like this. I can see that others have sincere views that his intolerance needs to be met with tolerance, and that a lot of those people have more direct experience than me.
I have a sincere question for you and the others in this thread who want to put Duran on the first plane out of town.
What is your opinion of Thom Brenneman the ex Reds and Fox announcer who 5 years ago was immediately fired for saying virtually the same thing and using the same term? I recently read a story that said that Thom was recently hired to do some football games this fall. In the article, it mentioned that Brenneman over the past five years has done serious work with LBGTQ÷ groups and that those groups advocated for his return as an announcer. I realize that the comparison breaks down because TB is an announcer and not a player, but what advances would Duran have to show to prove that he truly has changed?
I know no one is saying that Duran lose the right to play baseball for the next 5 years, only that he leave the Red Sox so you can root for the team again.
What I'm asking is there any actions that Duran can do (like what Thom Brenneman did) that can prove to you that this incident on Sunday while wrong and painful to many, can serve as a learning experience?
 

Bergs

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Jul 22, 2005
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“Yankees suck” is a homophobic slur. I cringe when a Fenway crowd takes up that cheer.

For some reason, “you suck,” which is short for “you suck dick,” implying homosexuality when directed at a male, has become borderline acceptable.
I think we're decades removed from having that be the primary use of "Sucks" in the popular vernacular. Just as some phrases become considerably MORE frowned upon (R, N, and - sadly - C), shouldn't the opposite be true? The F-Bomb certainly doesn't evoke the gasps it used to in days gone by.
 

Return of the Dewey

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As someone with bipolar disorder I can say that I have said horrible, hateful things prior to be being medicated. Oftentimes these things would come out in an episode of rage that I wouldn’t remember after. Is it appropriate to blame his words on mental illness? I don’t know. I still struggle with shame and guilt from things that I said or did 20 years ago prior to being hospitalized and being put on lithium. He’s going to have to live with this and maybe that’s enough. It would be for me. Having to look at myself in the mirror everyday is difficult as is without also having the shame of saying what he did. I hope he learns from it and gets the help he needs cause ultimately careers go fast and he is already 28ish. These are just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
Thanks for sharing…as i mention upthread, my son has had similar experiences with his bipolar/borderline, so I can understand how difficult. I agree that, hopefully, it will be wake up call to Duran to get some help/therapy
 

EdRalphRomero

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Oct 3, 2007
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I have a sincere question for you and the others in this thread who want to put Duran on the first plane out of town.
What is your opinion of Thom Brenneman the ex Reds and Fox announcer who 5 years ago was immediately fired for saying virtually the same thing and using the same term? I recently read a story that said that Thom was recently hired to do some football games this fall. In the article, it mentioned that Brenneman over the past five years has done serious work with LBGTQ÷ groups and that those groups advocated for his return as an announcer. I realize that the comparison breaks down because TB is an announcer and not a player, but what advances would Duran have to show to prove that he truly has changed?
I know no one is saying that Duran lose the right to play baseball for the next 5 years, only that he leave the Red Sox so you can root for the team again.
What I'm asking is there any actions that Duran can do (like what Thom Brenneman did) that can prove to you that this incident on Sunday while wrong and painful to many, can serve as a learning experience?
I don't really know the Thom Brenneman story, but as presented that sounds like a solid process. Of note, he had to suffer real consequences, and spend real time dealing with them. He had to do it even after the cameras were off him and the crisis PR firm went on to its next assignment. Durran can't be redeemed today. He's basically half a step into the wilderness. Go...suffer...repent... atone. You can't do that in 3 days. (Or don't and continue along the path to be a rich coddled bigot. He doesn't answer to me)
 

Rasputin

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“Yankees suck” is a homophobic slur. I cringe when a Fenway crowd takes up that cheer.

For some reason, “you suck,” which is short for “you suck dick,” implying homosexuality when directed at a male, has become borderline acceptable.
Since when?

I'm fifty three years old and is has never entered my mind that "you suck" had anything to do with dicks.
 

Curt S Loew

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Since when?

I'm fifty three years old and is has never entered my mind that "you suck" had anything to do with dicks.
Yeah. The "Yankees Suck" chant is saying that the Yankees suck at baseball. It's especially dumb when they don't.

This isn't to say some people may infer other meanings. I certainly never did.

Everything that sucks doesn't involve homophobia. Sometimes things just suck.

Like this situation.
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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“Yankees suck” is a homophobic slur. I cringe when a Fenway crowd takes up that cheer.

For some reason, “you suck,” which is short for “you suck dick,” implying homosexuality when directed at a male, has become borderline acceptable.
No
Suck = bad/awful/not good
I.e. Yankees are bad at baseball
 

jbupstate

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mauidano

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Maybe Mayor Wu should come down from the ivory tower and take a look at the Boston Common bordering Tremont Street. A large collection of homeless obviously suffering from mental health and substance abuse issues. The park is an absolutely filthy mess with lawns that haven’t been mowed for months, weeds covering the ball field and syringes everywhere.
Politically posturing. She's not my Mayor but this is a bad take by her. For all the reasons above. What is she gonna do with Duran? Not a damn thing. It's none of her business.
 

Salem's Lot

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Politically posturing. She's not my Mayor but this is a bad take by her. For all the reasons above. What is she gonna do with Duran? Not a damn thing. It's none of her business.
Seriously. There are real problems in this city that she should be addressing. Let MLB & the Red Sox worry about disciplining players for being bigoted assholes.
 

InsideTheParker

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Yeah. The "Yankees Suck" chant is saying that the Yankees suck at baseball. It's especially dumb when they don't.

This isn't to say some people may infer other meanings. I certainly never did.

Everything that sucks doesn't involve homophobia. Sometimes things just suck.

Like this situation.
What is the origin, then? Vacuum cleaners? Because vacuums are a Good Thing, in my opinion.
 

YTF

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Maybe Mayor Wu should come down from the ivory tower and take a look at the Boston Common bordering Tremont Street. A large collection of homeless obviously suffering from mental health and substance abuse issues. The park is an absolutely filthy mess with lawns that haven’t been mowed for months, weeds covering the ball field and syringes everywhere.
Well that didn't take long. I mean we have no context as to what the request was about.
 

reggiecleveland

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I am not sure what the goal is of some of the posters. Do you want him punished for being an irredeemable person? Do you want to send a message? Do you want this to be made less likely to happen?
I think the only possible achievable outcome is to eliminate the behavior, which over time can influence beliefs.

It is possible to at least change behavior. If the NBA mic'd up Larry Bird and Michael Jordan they would never have been able to play the clips without bleeping. Now the NBA is strict about all cursing on the court since every front row fan has a microphone. It is incredible the progress made. In the G-league, or summer league if a guy isn't corrected for cursing it is taken as a sign the organization thinks he won't make the NBA. The behavior has changed. Now down to high school kids cursing on the court is seen as small time.

I taught ESL for 20 years. Was I going to get all my Arab students to see Jews as people? Or the kids for the People's Republic to not see any religious person as not standing in the way of progress? But you can get kids to not say those things, or face consequences. There is tons of research showing the punishment does not need to be strong, as long as the prohibition is clear to not only change the behavior, but to begin to change ideas. Simply put a reasonably smart kid can see an entire society where people find a certain statement highly offensive to question that belief. If you go too far, it can backfire, and you get people from the outside and even the offender beginning to defend the statement, then you have trouble in River City.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Maybe Mayor Wu should come down from the ivory tower and take a look at the Boston Common bordering Tremont Street. A large collection of homeless obviously suffering from mental health and substance abuse issues. The park is an absolutely filthy mess with lawns that haven’t been mowed for months, weeds covering the ball field and syringes everywhere.
Currently sitting in the Common now. WTF are you talking about?
 

Bernard Gilkey baby

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In the beginning of Sosh, people here were incredibly descriptive with their homophobia. I remember a thread about whether we’d accept an openly gay MLB player and the comments were about half yes and half no, with “jokes”*that would make Ty Cobb blush.

*one memorable “nice” response, to paraphrase. “We love our R-word (Manny), we will love an f-word. I’ll give him a reach around myself if it means a playoff berth.”

we’ve come a long way baby.

edited for accuracy
 

Beomoose

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Stepping lightly to avoid the ban: 2 games is a pretty weak wrist slap. If the idea here is to put him on the higher path, educate and encourage him to grow as a person, that's swell. But there still should be a penalty that makes clear to him, to the community, and to The Community, that this was well beyond the pale.
 

YTF

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Stepping lightly to avoid the ban: 2 games is a pretty weak wrist slap. If the idea here is to put him on the higher path, educate and encourage him to grow as a person, that's swell. But there still should be a penalty that makes clear to him, to the community, and to The Community, that this was well beyond the pale.
Do we know that 2 games is the final tally here?
 

luckysox

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I appreciate Duran’s follow up to the original PR apology. And I appreciate the other folks here who have experience being “othered” and their willingness to respond so openly in this thread. Thank you, all of you. I realize, after reading many of these posts, that I should probably adjust my level of ire regarding such situations. I’m sure that I’m not as charitable as I ought to be. That said, I’m sitting here all pissed off that the suspension is only 2 games. I mean…come on. I assume the Sox and MLB believe it’s enough to make it go away. I honestly don’t even know if I’ll turn them on again this year.
 

simplicio

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I appreciate Duran’s follow up to the original PR apology. And I appreciate the other folks here who have experience being “othered” and their willingness to respond so openly in this thread. Thank you, all of you. I realize, after reading many of these posts, that I should probably adjust my level of ire regarding such situations. I’m sure that I’m not as charitable as I ought to be. That said, I’m sitting here all pissed off that the suspension is only 2 games. I mean…come on. I assume the Sox and MLB believe it’s enough to make it go away. I honestly don’t even know if I’ll turn them on again this year.
Hell with that, it's your own personal experience and you owe no charity to assholes. I'm really sorry he's stolen the joy of this team from you (along with many others).
 

mikeford

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Stepping lightly to avoid the ban: 2 games is a pretty weak wrist slap. If the idea here is to put him on the higher path, educate and encourage him to grow as a person, that's swell. But there still should be a penalty that makes clear to him, to the community, and to The Community, that this was well beyond the pale.
Given that Pillar got the same length for essentially the same offence, I'm not surprised. Given how long ago the Pillar incident happened, I do feel they should've gone heavier. That was 7 years ago. It was beyond the pale back then too. I'd like to think it's even more so now.
 

RG33

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You really think it's weird that some people might find motherfucker offensive? LOL, OK.

See post #167, then, the one right after mine.
No, I find you comparing a quote from Tom Brady that uses a derogatory word (that our current Vice President just said was her favorite swear word, by the way) in a comparison to someone using a bigoted slur as a “gotcha” in some virtue signaling way to be really fucking weird. We can take it to DM from here.
 

luckiestman

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No, I find you comparing a quote from Tom Brady that uses a derogatory word (that our current Vice President just said was her favorite swear word, by the way) in a comparison to someone using a bigoted slur as a “gotcha” in some virtue signaling way to be really fucking weird. We can take it to DM from here.
For the record, I prefer to be call a mothafuckuh if the alternative is breeder. Go suck an egg…;)
 

jbupstate

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Currently sitting in the Common now. WTF are you talking about?
Maybe we’re not seeing the same things?

My daughter was in Boston for a two month internship that ended Friday. She was housed in dorms on West Street. I’ve walked down West multiple times, crossed Tremont and walked through the park. Lots of homeless, lots of drug use, the ball field close to Boylston (left of temporary staging if walking toward Gardens) is overgrown. The lawns were not mowed in the two months.

An amazing difference from the Gardens that are well maintained… as I’m sure you know since you’re there.

I grew up on the South Shore, lived on E. Street in Southie and my first apartment was corner of Boylston and Ipswich. I’ve been in and around the city of Boston a great majority of my life.

I really respect you as a longtime SOSH poster and I apologize if I offended you. Really don’t understand how you cannot see what my entire family did see. Not sure what I have to gain by making it up.