ESPN Is Pathetic

ifmanis5

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All those fat contracts means a price hike for their streaming service soon.
View: https://twitter.com/9to5mac/status/1548023389679280139

ESPN+ latest streaming service to hit customers with a price hike https://9to5mac.com/2022/07/15/espn-plus-price-increase-2/… by @michaelpotuck
From 6.99 up to 9.99 per month.

View: https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1548055058004131845

ESPN+, which has grown dramatically over the past couple of years while also adding a significant amount of live sports offerings, will increase its monthly price to from $7 to $10 a month on August 23
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Is that for "new subscribers" only? Like, can I cancel ESPN+ and do the bundle?
You don't need to cancel. Just sign up for Disney+ with the same email that you use for ESPN and you'll get a credit/discount on the Disney+ price to account for what you paid for ESPN. That's how it works for me as I already had a Hulu sub. I still pay Hulu separately, but the Disney+ price is discounted by the amount of the Hulu sub.
 

DJnVa

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You don't need to cancel. Just sign up for Disney+ with the same email that you use for ESPN and you'll get a credit/discount on the Disney+ price to account for what you paid for ESPN. That's how it works for me as I already had a Hulu sub. I still pay Hulu separately, but the Disney+ price is discounted by the amount of the Hulu sub.
I have Disney+ already. And Hulu. There's no discounts anywhere that I can see. I'll dig a bit more tomorrow.
 

worm0082

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For weeks now the ESPN Twitter account seems to be doing nothing but hyping and pushing the WNBA. All the comments are negative.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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For weeks now the ESPN Twitter account seems to be doing nothing but hyping and pushing the WNBA. All the comments are negative.
The WNBA certainly occupies the head space of all their haters, a lot of time and energy spent writing put-downs of the league from people who supposedly can't be bothered.

From the family of a season-ticket holder of the Sun since inception, they are perfectly happy going to games and ignoring the noise from those saying the league shouldn't exist just due to the fact it isn't as popular or above the rim like men's basketball. The WNBA is going into the playoffs, and what other seasons are active right now? NBA offseason has been quiet for a few weeks but once player movement picks up again or the NFL is nearing opening weekend, whichever comes first, everyone can relax and not have to be subjected to the horror of WNBA news for awhile...
 

Kliq

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Social media unfortunately is a terrible spot for women's sports; as every time I see something posted about women's sports (WNBA, soccer, tennis, various Olympic sports, etc.) it's always being pelted by some combination of people mocking how "unathletic" the women are, or the crazy transphobes who have turned that into their personal battleground. Perhaps this has always been the case; but I feel like in recent years the right has really targeted women's sports as a fire to stoke the passions of its base and provoke the insecurities of some men. There is a reason Megan Rapinoe has become a supervillain to these people while many other left-leaning female entertainers have flown under the radar.

Probably more of a V&N post so I apologize in advance.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Social media unfortunately is a terrible spot for women's sports; as every time I see something posted about women's sports (WNBA, soccer, tennis, various Olympic sports, etc.) it's always being pelted by some combination of people mocking how "unathletic" the women are, or the crazy transphobes who have turned that into their personal battleground. Perhaps this has always been the case; but I feel like in recent years the right has really targeted women's sports as a fire to stoke the passions of its base and provoke the insecurities of some men. Probably more of a V&N post so I apologize in advance.
Yeah, I don't see nearly as much vitriol when another basketball league such as the "Big 3" gets coverage/hype that out-kicks the actual viewership of the product.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Social media unfortunately is a terrible spot for women's sports; as every time I see something posted about women's sports (WNBA, soccer, tennis, various Olympic sports, etc.) it's always being pelted by some combination of people mocking how "unathletic" the women are, or the crazy transphobes who have turned that into their personal battleground. Perhaps this has always been the case; but I feel like in recent years the right has really targeted women's sports as a fire to stoke the passions of its base and provoke the insecurities of some men. There is a reason Megan Rapinoe has become a supervillain to these people while many other left-leaning female entertainers have flown under the radar.

Probably more of a V&N post so I apologize in advance.
I don't think it's just the Right though. I remember that for some reason Bill Simmons hated, HATED the idea of the WNBA. He never really explained why, I think that he thought it was inauthentic and somehow pandering to women(?), but he used to rip on the league all of the time. There was one mailbag or something where he said, "If you asked a sports fan whether they'd rather find a $5 bill on the ground, or have their city's team win a WNBA championship, I bet that they'd rather have the $5." And while I remember thinking it was an "awesome" burn when I was younger, this seemed to be the attitude of most (male) sports fans 20 years ago, no matter how they voted. I think that you're correct that the Right does seem to hit these notes particularly hard today, at the beginning of the league a lot of sportsfans just weren't down with the WNBA at all.
 

moondog80

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I have no beef with the WNBA. But the reality is, in this forum where anyone can start a thread about anything and is largely left of center, I found exactly one thread about the WNBA, regarding the 2019 finals. It has 6 posts.
 

Awesome Fossum

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I don't think it's just the Right though. I remember that for some reason Bill Simmons hated, HATED the idea of the WNBA. He never really explained why, I think that he thought it was inauthentic and somehow pandering to women(?), but he used to rip on the league all of the time. There was one mailbag or something where he said, "If you asked a sports fan whether they'd rather find a $5 bill on the ground, or have their city's team win a WNBA championship, I bet that they'd rather have the $5." And while I remember thinking it was an "awesome" burn when I was younger, this seemed to be the attitude of most (male) sports fans 20 years ago, no matter how they voted. I think that you're correct that the Right does seem to hit these notes particularly hard today, at the beginning of the league a lot of sportsfans just weren't down with the WNBA at all.
I agree -- I think culture war + social media being a cesspool in general explains much of it today, but not everything. The bit that applied 20 years ago is obviously that sports fans are disproportionately young men, and it is when men are young that they are usually the most misogynistic, least empathetic version of themselves. I know that's true of me.

But I think there's something even beyond that. My half baked theory is that people who identify as "sports fans" see new and different sports/sports leagues as a threat to their identity. If I'm a sports fan and I don't want to watch soccer/WNBA/whatever, what does that mean? Either that I'm not really a "sports" fan or "soccer/WNBA/whatever isn't a real sport." Even on this board, when something screwy like the XFL pops up, half the posts are people just dropping in to say they think it's dumb.

Or even to take it more narrowly, if I think of myself as a "basketball fan", then why wouldn't I want to watch the WNBA? Either I need to update my identity -- maybe I'm just a Celtics fan or an NBA fan or a men's basketball fan -- or I can just dismiss the WNBA as not real basketball.
 

johnmd20

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But I think there's something even beyond that. My half baked theory is that people who identify as "sports fans" see new and different sports/sports leagues as a threat to their identity.
That seems like a stretch. Like, soccer is on the TV and therefore someone's worldview gets exposed?

The fact is, the NBA isn't massively popular. NBA fans are rabid but there are not a lot of casuals. So it makes sense that the WNBA wouldn't be that popular either. And the WNBA has to compete with the NBA, and NCAA basketball, too.(men and women's basketball, because college women's hoops is massively more watched than the WNBA)
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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That seems like a stretch. Like, soccer is on the TV and therefore someone's worldview gets exposed?

The fact is, the NBA isn't massively popular. NBA fans are rabid but there are not a lot of casuals. So it makes sense that the WNBA wouldn't be that popular either. And the WNBA has to compete with the NBA, and NCAA basketball, too.(men and women's basketball, because college women's hoops is massively more watched than the WNBA)
Maybe not today but when I played soccer (80s and 90s) my uncle asked my mom why she allowed me to play a “commie sport”. There was also thoughts (mostly by football players) that we played a “pansy game” and weren’t “real men”.

You hear that less and less now and I think a lot of that has to do with the game being on TV. When I grew up, soccer was never on TV. Maybe you’d see a clip of a guy fall over when brushed with a feather, which further illustrated the soccer players aren’t tough mentality.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don't think it's just the Right though. I remember that for some reason Bill Simmons hated, HATED the idea of the WNBA. He never really explained why, I think that he thought it was inauthentic and somehow pandering to women(?), but he used to rip on the league all of the time. There was one mailbag or something where he said, "If you asked a sports fan whether they'd rather find a $5 bill on the ground, or have their city's team win a WNBA championship, I bet that they'd rather have the $5." And while I remember thinking it was an "awesome" burn when I was younger, this seemed to be the attitude of most (male) sports fans 20 years ago, no matter how they voted. I think that you're correct that the Right does seem to hit these notes particularly hard today, at the beginning of the league a lot of sportsfans just weren't down with the WNBA at all.
Same reason people hate LIV (well some). The WNBA loses money and is not self sufficient. It would not exist without the NBA. I don't know if there is updated info, but up until 2018, the WNBA lost the NBA an average of more than $10 million per year and has never once turned a profit.

I know people who can't stand the very thought of the WNBAs existence but are perfectly fine with the WTA. They are fine with the LPGA as well. And it's solely because the WNBA is funded by the NBA. They think the league should not exist.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Red(s)HawksFan

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Did people go around actively despising NFL Europe because it was subsidized by the NFL? What an empty argument.
Every affiliated minor league baseball team is subsidized by MLB (by the simple fact that they provide the players). Those parks still fill.

The people that hate on the WNBA are just making excuses for their misogyny.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Same reason people hate LIV (well some). The WNBA loses money and is not self sufficient. It would not exist without the NBA. I don't know if there is updated info, but up until 2018, the WNBA lost the NBA an average of more than $10 million per year and has never once turned a profit.
I don’t think that’s the main reason why people hate LiV. Many people hate LIV because it’s backed by the Saudis and there’s a lot of baggage (that’s a nice word for it) that comes with them.

I’ve never heard or read of anyone hating LIV because it’s not self-sufficient.

* It’s why being a Newcastle fan is kinda tough right now.
 

Shelterdog

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The WNBA was created in 1996. So It's lost $220 million+ since its existence.

https://www.sports-king.com/wnba-lose-money-3361/

edit: Despite this lack of profitability, they all got 53% pay raises in the new CBA.
https://en.as.com/en/2022/03/07/nba/1646677389_970277.html

It looks like viewership is up so maybe this is worth the long term investment but this is why a lot of people hate the WNBA. It's subsidized.
Yes im sure that anti wnba animus is driven by people’s knowledge of and hatred of the business’s capital structure and not by anything else
 

Cesar Crespo

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Said differently, on what other basis would someone hate a sport because its operations are subsidized?

That would be some kind of pet peeve.
But people don't hate the sport. They hate the league.

What other professional leagues are subsidized outside of developmental leagues?

From the business side, it's not too hard to see the league being profitable in the near future. 60 mil in revenue, 70 mil in expenses. They managed to get $75 million in sponsorships and everyone wants content nowadays. And from the NBAs perspective, $10 million is a drop in the bucket.

edit: I'm pretty sure in the Bill Burr skit he even mentions how the NBA keeps the WNBA afloat.
 
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ManicCompression

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I think that people who feel the need to moan and complain online about the WNBA are pretty sad and I'm not sure why anyone is paying attention to them. They're obnoxious drunks at a bar who should just be ignored. Giving them attention is what they want.

But I also think the WNBA is not doing themselves any favors with antagonistic marketing. "The only problem with the WNBA is that you're not watching" is needlessly in your face - of all the reasons people watch sports, I don't believe guilt is at the top of the list. Also, partner brands like Nike have ads saying that the women's national team makes our favorite men's basketball team look like amateurs. It's strange to live a cultural moment where watching sports is a zero sum game and we need to denigrate the accomplishments of one group of people to make the other seem more appealing. It seems like Nike thinks we should watch sports because we like the way people look or we agree with their politics - I think this forum and its passion for football and baseball is proof that we don't actually care about these things. We just like watching amazing athletes do amazing things and, weirdly enough, the WNBAs biggest partner, Nike, doesn't have highlights of women playing basketball in a commercial that's ostensibly trying to raise awareness of how great women's basketball is. Just overall, it seems like the WNBA and its partners would prefer to lean into the culture wars to acquire fans rather than attract fans via the merit of the game itself. For example, Women's tennis - it's a much more enjoyable game to watch because there's more volleying (IMO).

I think it's cool that people like the WNBA, but I also don't watch it because I don't like the style of basketball being played (and for that matter, I don't really watch college basketball for similar reasons, nor do I watch single A baseball or Canadian football). There's only so much time in the day. I barely get to watch as much NBA as I want to watch. I don't think that makes me less of a "sports" fan - it means I just want to watch the highest quality version (IMO) of whatever sport I like.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Since you have the finger on the pulse of these “other people”, why do they care that the league isn’t profitable? I do not understand how that’s something that should engender hatred. That doesn’t even begin to make sense.
Why do people hate people on SSI and TANF? I don't know. But they do.

Why is it so shocking to you that people care the league isn't profitable? Or at least pretend that?

edit: A large chunk of people don't like "hand outs/bail outs."
 

ManicCompression

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For the record, I don’t either. That’s sort of my point — everyone can consume what they like and leave what they don’t. It’s when people feel the need to start attacking that I think something else is going on.
I guess I misunderstood needing to "update my identity." I like watching the NBA and I love playing basketball - I am a basketball fan.

But per what you're saying here, then the NBA and its partners should not be marketing themselves in such a way that fans are at fault for not watching their league. That is, frankly, a dumb way to reach new people and we'd mock any other league for saying such a thing. The WNBA is struggling for fans - it's on them to make the case as to why their game is so exciting that I should spend a Thursday night watching it instead of the millions of other things I could do.
 

Shelterdog

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Why do people hate people on SSI and TANF? I don't know. But they do.

Why is it so shocking to you that people care the league isn't profitable? Or at least pretend that?

edit: A large chunk of people don't like "hand outs/bail outs."
SSI and TANF like forms of social welfare SSI and TANF? Da fuq?

Your life experience is your life experience but you must be chilling with DH3 and zombie Milton Friedman to find people who care that much about subsidies. There are a million reasons to not like WNBA but I’ve never ever heard anyone say this before entering this thread and hearing you and bill burr run with that.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Because it’s so obviously stupid. If this is a position you understand and don’t find shocking, why can’t you explain it?
I can't explain why people vote for Trump either. But they do. I don't get your point.

I'm repeating what other people have said. What does that have to do with me understanding the position enough to explain it? They don't like the league because it wouldn't exist without the NBA. That is their position.

Did they also hate NFL Europe? I don't know. That hasn't existed since 2007 when the NFL stopped subsidizing since 1998 because it was losing too much money. Before you mentioned it, I forget it existed.
 

Awesome Fossum

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I guess I misunderstood needing to "update my identity." I like watching the NBA and I love playing basketball - I am a basketball fan.
You sound like someone who has inspected their identity as a basketball fan and updated it appropriately. I didn’t mean to suggest that you don’t get to call yourself a basketball if you don’t care for the WNBA.

I’m not really familiar with the marketing campaign, but that sounds a like a reasonable reason to resent the WNBA. As opposed to their P&L statements.
 

Cesar Crespo

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SSI and TANF like forms of social welfare SSI and TANF? Da fuq?

Your life experience is your life experience but you must be chilling with DH3 and zombie Milton Friedman to find people who care that much about subsidies. There are a million reasons to not like WNBA but I’ve never ever heard anyone say this before entering this thread and hearing you and bill burr run with that.
Why would Bill Burr randomly run with it? Hmm. All his other stuff plays off current topics. But not that one?

And yea, people on SSI and TANF usually live in subsidized housing and get shit on. Do Republicans not go after welfare moms?