ESPN's Top 100 Players of All Time

HangingW/ScottCooper

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ESPN did their top 100 players of all time list this week. These things are always ripe for debate but aside from a handful of things, I feel they did a decent enough job. This isn't behind a paywall so here are the 3 links:

1-25: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33158613/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-25-1
26-50: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33145627/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-50-26
51-100: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33138638/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-100-51

My own opinions. Jeter and Mike Schmidt are too high. Nothing against either guy, but there are some players behind them on the list (but still close) that seem significantly better. In Jeter's case, Albert Pujols was below him. In Schmidt's case, Rickey Henderson was below him.

Something I really like was how aggressive they were with Pedro. #11 all time and the #2 pitcher. I've long argued that Pedro's 2000 season was the best pitching season of all time.
 
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Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
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ESPN did their top 100 players of all time list this week. These things are always ripe for debate but aside from a handful of things, I feel they did a decent enough job. This isn't behind a paywall so here are the 3 links:

1-25: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33158613/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-25-1
26-50: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33145627/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-50-26
51-100: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33138638/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-100-51

My own opinions. Jeter and Mike Schmidt are too high. Nothing against either guy, but there are some players behind them on the list (but still close) that seem significantly better. In Jeter's case, Albert Pujols was below him. In Schmidt's case, Rickey Henderson was below him.

Something I really like was how aggressive they were with Pedro. #11 all time and the #1 pitcher. I've long argued that Pedro's 2000 season was the best pitching season of all time.
They ranked Walter Johnson ahead of Pedro (9)
 

Seels

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Oh boy I have lots of issues with this
  • Hank Aaron was great. But he wasn't really close to the 3rd best player ever. What even is this. Every guy in the top 10 is substantially better than him.
  • I love Griffey - he's my favorite non New England athlete ever, but 13th? uh. like a few dozen spots too high.
  • Pete Rose at 34????!?!!!?!?!??!?!?!? What in the world? Ok. Look, I'll admit, I have a bias for Rose, I met the guy a few times and think he's just a dumpster fire of a human being. That said, anyone ranking Rose above his own teammate Morgan is an insane person. Rose is, at best, a compiler. Maybe an elite compiler, but he's a compiler. There's no case for him being one of the 50 or so best players ever, and above Joe Morgan? Hahahaha.
  • why is Bryce Harper on this list
This is a list. It's not a good one. Looks like it's mostly random.
 

glennhoffmania

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It's telling that the summary about Jeter is about how much the team won while he was there.
 

jon abbey

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Joe Pos did this last year with way more research, why would anyone pay attention to what was almost certainly going to be a much worse list?
 

Merkle's Boner

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In this case, it would be more like Promote Joe Morgan (about 12-15 spots higher on the list).
I agree. But I also think there was a lot of love of batting average in that list, with Gwynn in particular way over-rated.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Oh boy I have lots of issues with this
  • Hank Aaron was great. But he wasn't really close to the 3rd best player ever. What even is this. Every guy in the top 10 is substantially better than him.
  • I love Griffey - he's my favorite non New England athlete ever, but 13th? uh. like a few dozen spots too high.
  • Pete Rose at 34????!?!!!?!?!??!?!?!? What in the world? Ok. Look, I'll admit, I have a bias for Rose, I met the guy a few times and think he's just a dumpster fire of a human being. That said, anyone ranking Rose above his own teammate Morgan is an insane person. Rose is, at best, a compiler. Maybe an elite compiler, but he's a compiler. There's no case for him being one of the 50 or so best players ever, and above Joe Morgan? Hahahaha.
  • why is Bryce Harper on this list
This is a list. It's not a good one. Looks like it's mostly random.
Agree with all of this (except maybe Aaron. Not #3, but also not #11+, as I’m not sure Musial, Bonds or Mantle were better). Mantle and Trout are too high.

And there are at least 8-10 guys ahead of Yaz that are frankly indefensible! Whitey f’n Ford? Miggy “no glove” Cabrera? Even Ernie Banks. FFS. Yaz’s prime during the most pitching dominant era screws him in these comparisons.

And Jeter at #28? You’ve gotta be f’n kidding me.
 
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Daniel_Son

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Oh boy I have lots of issues with this
  • Hank Aaron was great. But he wasn't really close to the 3rd best player ever. What even is this. Every guy in the top 10 is substantially better than him.
  • I love Griffey - he's my favorite non New England athlete ever, but 13th? uh. like a few dozen spots too high.
  • Pete Rose at 34????!?!!!?!?!??!?!?!? What in the world? Ok. Look, I'll admit, I have a bias for Rose, I met the guy a few times and think he's just a dumpster fire of a human being. That said, anyone ranking Rose above his own teammate Morgan is an insane person. Rose is, at best, a compiler. Maybe an elite compiler, but he's a compiler. There's no case for him being one of the 50 or so best players ever, and above Joe Morgan? Hahahaha.
  • why is Bryce Harper on this list
This is a list. It's not a good one. Looks like it's mostly random.
My biggest issue is Tris Speaker at 36... 9th all-time in WAR, 6th all time BA, career leader in doubles, stole over 400 bases, 3514 hits, stellar defense. Come on ESPN.
 

BoSox Rule

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That was a pretty awful list. You could enter the 100 names into a randomizer and do better.
 

JOBU

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I was shocked they had Ortiz at what 61 was it? I was just hoping to see him somewhere in the top 100 but while I was going through 100-75 I thought he didn’t have a chance after some of the names I saw on there. Happy to be wrong but yeah decency bias I suppose. Not a great list. Lol @ Jetes
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I made this point in the ESPN is Pathetic thread. This list is like everything ESPN does: contrived to elicit controversy and argument (i.e. Hot Takez City). If it was "correct" and "accurate", why would anyone talk about it?

  • why is Bryce Harper on this list
Easy. ESPN viewers/readers know who he is. He'll generate more discussion than if, oh, Paul Waner was in his place. Who wants to debate Paul Waner's place on the list other than hardcore baseball fans?

Just to be clear, I'm not defending ESPN. This shit is a big reason I pay them no attention whatsoever.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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ESPN did their top 100 players of all time list this week. These things are always ripe for debate but aside from a handful of things, I feel they did a decent enough job. This isn't behind a paywall so here are the 3 links:

1-25: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33158613/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-25-1
26-50: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33145627/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-50-26
51-100: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33138638/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-100-51

My own opinions. Jeter and Mike Schmidt are too high. Nothing against either guy, but there are some players behind them on the list (but still close) that seem significantly better. In Jeter's case, Albert Pujols was below him. In Schmidt's case, Rickey Henderson was below him.

Something I really like was how aggressive they were with Pedro. #11 all time and the #2 pitcher. I've long argued that Pedro's 2000 season was the best pitching season of all time.
Getting hung up on Mike Schmidt is kind of weird. He's ranked 18th and he's 25th All-Time in bWAR. He's the best hitting third basemen ever AND one of the top defensive third basemen in history. A 3X MVP that won 10 GGs and led the league in homers 8x, only Babe Ruth did that more. I think Rickey is better (111 career bWAR) but it's pretty close and basically comes down to if you prefer Rickey's OBP and Speed to Schmidts power and defense.

The most egregious snub to me is Eddie Collins (bWAR of 124) finishing behind Vladimir Guerrero (bWAR of 59).
 

mikeford

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Schmidt is also buoyed by playing a position where almost no one in the history of baseball was that good at it. 3B has gotta be the weakest position in the HOF. The only guy better than him by fWAR in the history of baseball that played at 3B was A-Rod.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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The end of the list is a mess. Harper shouldn’t be on the list at all, but having him ahead of someone like Beltre is crazy.
 

DJnVa

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Oh boy I have lots of issues with this
  • Hank Aaron was great. But he wasn't really close to the 3rd best player ever. What even is this. Every guy in the top 10 is substantially better than him.
Musial is "substantially better" than Aaron? Posnanski had Aaron #4, so close to this. He had Bonds above him.

Can you make the case? (That's not snarky, I want to see it.)
 

Seels

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I just think most of the guys in that area that Aaron is above had better peaks. Musial is around where I'd put Aaron. Maybe they're both top 10 -- around there. Aaron's 8th in mvp shares, 1 mvp, led the league in WAR once, 7th all time in war.

I think any argument for him being that high needs to basically write off players before integration and any pitchers. Maybe what I said was too harsh, but I just have a hard time seeing a reasonable argument for Aaron above a few of the guys on the list, namely Bonds Williams Mantle and Cobb. And realistically, since it's a combined list, Walter Johnson should be above him too.

Aaron was really outstanding for a really long time. But he never played at the level that some of these other guys played at.
 

Max Power

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I just think most of the guys in that area that Aaron is above had better peaks. Musial is around where I'd put Aaron. Maybe they're both top 10 -- around there. Aaron's 8th in mvp shares, 1 mvp, led the league in WAR once, 7th all time in war.

I think any argument for him being that high needs to basically write off players before integration and any pitchers. Maybe what I said was too harsh, but I just have a hard time seeing a reasonable argument for Aaron above a few of the guys on the list, namely Bonds Williams Mantle and Cobb. And realistically, since it's a combined list, Walter Johnson should be above him too.

Aaron was really outstanding for a really long time. But he never played at the level that some of these other guys played at.
Aaron was the most consistently great player ever. From 1956 to 1973, his lowest OPS+ was 142. He basically played at MVP level for 18 straight seasons. He never had an all time great single season, so he doesn't match up with Ruth or Bonds in peak value, but listing him in the top 5 players ever is reasonable.

The problem with the ESPN list is that they try to have it both ways. If they're valuing longevity to rank Aaron or Pete Rose highly, then Pedro probably shouldn't be at the top of the list, too.
 

BaseballJones

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Forget ESPN. If you were to have your own “inner circle” of all time greats, let’s not worry about numbering them in order, but who would they be? Let’s keep the list to ten. Any position, whatever criteria you want. It could be sustained greatness, or it could be elite peak (let’s say minimum of like seven years though... can’t be a peak of just a couple seasons), or some combination of that. You pick the ten members of the MLB inner circle and maybe offer your why to them.

Who ya got, SOSH?
 

Kliq

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Aaron was the most consistently great player ever. From 1956 to 1973, his lowest OPS+ was 142. He basically played at MVP level for 18 straight seasons. He never had an all time great single season, so he doesn't match up with Ruth or Bonds in peak value, but listing him in the top 5 players ever is reasonable.

The problem with the ESPN list is that they try to have it both ways. If they're valuing longevity to rank Aaron or Pete Rose highly, then Pedro probably shouldn't be at the top of the list, too.
I wrote this when he died, but if you were theoretically starting a franchise, a case could be made that you'd take Aaron, and his guaranteed 18 years of MVP-level production over any other player who peaked higher.
 

edoug

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Forget ESPN. If you were to have your own “inner circle” of all time greats, let’s not worry about numbering them in order, but who would they be? Let’s keep the list to ten. Any position, whatever criteria you want. It could be sustained greatness, or it could be elite peak (let’s say minimum of like seven years though... can’t be a peak of just a couple seasons), or some combination of that. You pick the ten members of the MLB inner circle and maybe offer your why to them.

Who ya got, SOSH?
Bench- Best catcher of all time. We'd talk the '76 series and the Baseball Bunch
Aaron-- He was so good for so long. Any opportunity to be around Hank Aaron would be awesome.
The Kid- Way too many reasons
Babe- If you name the great baseball player, he's likely the first person you think of.
Mays- If you don't pick Ruth, then Mays is probably is the guy.
Cobb- The best hitter ever. That wasn't a marine pilot
Griffey Jr.- Hs swing, the way he played the outfield were so beautiful to watch.
Stan Musial- Just one of the best.
Mike Schmidt- The glove and the power made for a lethal combo
Big Papi- Why? It's my Fucking team.
 
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Ale Xander

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Bonds
Ruth
Mays
Gibson, J
Aaron
Williams, T
Cobb
Pedro
Clemens
Junior

HM:
Hornsby
Gehrig
Maddux, G
Wagner, H
Rodriguez, I
Rodriguez, A
 
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Amos Otis regrets

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Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Babe Ruth
Honus Wagner
Oscar Charleston
Josh Gibson
Alex Rodriguez
Roger Clemens
Walter Johnson
Ty Cobb

Breadth of accomplishment matters to me - speed and defense, as well as hitting - as does sustaining a high level for a long time. Toughest omissions: Ted Williams (he loses ground for being too one-dimensional in his greatness), Pedro Martinez (too short a career), Lefty Grove (it came down to Grove vs. Cobb). Looks like I'm bending over backwards not to give preference to former Red Sox players.

Looking at the list, my gut tells me that there are too many pre-WWII players here; perhaps it should be Henry Aaron instead of Cobb. Too many outfielders, too. Maybe Schmidt deserves a look.
 

Jason Bae

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Koufax is the Ralph Kiner of pitchers. Brilliant 5-6 years and the rest of their careers were pretty meh.

Beltre should be much higher. 3rd all-time among 3B in WAR and 4th in JAWS. Brooks was a far inferior hitter and he came in at 67th.
 

jaytftwofive

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Many baseball writers and experts consider Lefty Grove the best Lefthanded pitcher of all time. How can Koufax be over him for 5 great years? IMO The top Lefthanders are 1. Grove. 2. Randy Johnson 3. Spahn . 4. Carlton then maybe Koufax or Kershaw 5th.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Not in order:

Babe
Big Train
Cy
Sey Hey
Georgia Peach
Hammerin’ Hank
Splendid Splinter
Satchel
Josh Gibson
Oscar Charleston

Just missed: The Flying Dutchman, Iron Horse, Grey Eagle, Bench, Rickey, Pedro

Bonds, Clemens, maybe A-Rod? Talent was there, but…

Active players who could make the list: Trout… Mookie (Kidding. Sort of.)
 
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Marciano490

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I never looked at Koufax’s full career before - what changed to get him from a high 3s, low 4s era guy to a dominating superstar.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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I never looked at Koufax’s full career before - what changed to get him from a high 3s, low 4s era guy to a dominating superstar.
He entered his prime right as the Dodgers were moving into Dodger Stadium in 1962. Also, the mound was still 15 inches high and the strike zone was expanded in 1963.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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He entered his prime right as the Dodgers were moving into Dodger Stadium in 1962. Also, the mound was still 15 inches high and the strike zone was expanded in 1963.
If these are the explanations, why didn't other Dodger pitchers turn into Sandy Koufax after the move to Dodger Stadium? Well, I guess Don Drysdale did for a while, but still... Why didn't pitchers all over baseball turn into Sandy Koufax after 1963?

Koufax certainly benefited from those factors but the biggest thing was just learning how to pitch. Because of his bonus baby status, he never pitched in the minors. He could always throw hard but it took him a long time to learn command. He didn't throw first pitch strikes and when he got in trouble, he tried to get out of it with 180 mph fastballs. He walked between 5 and 6 batters per 9 innings each year between 1958 and 1960. By 1963, he was down to 1.7 per 9 innings. He supposedly had a problem tipping his pitches early on as well.
 

BaseballJones

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My inner circle:

Ruth
Mays
Aaron
Pedro
Williams
Musial
Young
Grove
Maddux
Bonds

I could do this every day and come up with a different list. The no brainers for ME are Ruth, Williams, Mays, Aaron, and Pedro. I think Bonds is in there because even without the PEDs he was unbelievable. But it’s enough to bump him to second tier (I.e. not no-brainer) inner circle.
 

jon abbey

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I don’t take pre-integration baseball seriously (sorry Babe etc.) and stuck to more recent players I remember well.

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Rickey Henderson
Mike Trout
Ichiro Suzuki
Justin Verlander
Alex Rodriguez (begrudgingly as I really dislike him and think he often disappeared in the biggest moments, but the numbers are hard to deny)
Ken Griffey Jr.
Albert Pujols (the last six years of his career have been dreadful but the first 15 years were remarkable)
 

Ale Xander

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I don’t take pre-integration baseball seriously (sorry Babe etc.) and stuck to more recent players I remember well.

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Rickey Henderson
Mike Trout
Ichiro Suzuki
Justin Verlander
Alex Rodriguez (begrudgingly as I really dislike him and think he often disappeared in the biggest moments, but the numbers are hard to deny)
Ken Griffey Jr.
Albert Pujols (the last six years of his career have been dreadful but the first 15 years were remarkable)
Why do you hate Pedro?
 

jon abbey

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Why do you hate Pedro?
His peak wasn’t long enough and the Yankees were his daddy. Maddux isn’t on there either, it’s not intended as a definitive list of any kind, just a personal one.
 

jon abbey

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Johnson's ERA vs. the yankees was 3.82. Pedro's was 3.56.

Just sayin'
I should not have to defend the list that I made in about ten minutes, but Randy Johnson gets bonus credit for crushing NY in the 2001 WS, especially the zero day relief appearance in game 7. I tried to factor in my memories of postseason heroics, often against NY, one reason Verlander is on there. If it helps you guys, I almost put on Ortiz over A-Rod but couldn’t quite justify the positional disparity to myself.
 

jaytftwofive

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Many baseball writers and experts consider Lefty Grove the best Lefthanded pitcher of all time. How can Koufax be over him for 5 great years? IMO The top Lefthanders are 1. Grove. 2. Randy Johnson 3. Spahn . 4. Carlton then maybe Koufax or Kershaw 5th.
And Yes as great as Pedro was he wasn't as dominant over a long period of time like some of the other pitchers. I think 11 is too high, IMO.
 

jaytftwofive

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He entered his prime right as the Dodgers were moving into Dodger Stadium in 1962. Also, the mound was still 15 inches high and the strike zone was expanded in 1963.
Like I said before I don't think Koufax is as good as Grove and Randy and Spahn and Carlton over Koufax. However in my lifetime, (I'm 64) if I had to take one pitcher to win one game it would be Koufax of 62-66. Even over Bob Gibson who was almost as dominant.
 
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