Everything Must Go? The 2022 Red Sox as Sellers?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mueller's Twin Grannies

critical thinker
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
9,386
With the way the team has been playing lately, do you think they should be looking to sell right now?
No.

But there's a long way to go and a lot can happen. I do have a slight taste of crow in my mouth if that helps?

Edit: Now three games under. Blow it up! :p
 
Last edited:

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
If the 14 games against the Rays and the mfy doesn't go well this thread could be relevant again. I am not rooting against the Sox, but I feel the need to point out your snark might be a bit too soon and in any case not needed.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
If the 14 games against the Rays and the mfy doesn't go well this thread could be relevant again. I am not rooting against the Sox, but I feel the need to point out your snark might be a bit too soon and in any case not needed.
I hope then that if the Sox go 4-10 in those games that you will not be quick to say I Told You So
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,388
Looking at the expanded standings, what's most incredible about the Yankees' start to this season is that they're 26-12 (.684, or 111-win pace) against the AL East. Not only have they played a TON of games within the division, but they've absolutely crushed it. I wonder what will happen with them once they start playing the lesser teams in other divisions. Will they play at an .800 pace then? Or will they still come back to earth because no team can win 125 games in a regular season?
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Looking at the expanded standings, what's most incredible about the Yankees' start to this season is that they're 26-12 (.684, or 111-win pace) against the AL East. Not only have they played a TON of games within the division, but they've absolutely crushed it. I wonder what will happen with them once they start playing the lesser teams in other divisions. Will they play at an .800 pace then? Or will they still come back to earth because no team can win 125 games in a regular season?
Teams have to play 76 division games so since we’re almost to the halfway point of the season, NY has had basically the correct percentage of in-division games so far. BOS’s schedule is quite backloaded, I’ve said it before but the schedule makers did a very bad job this season.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,388
Teams have to play 76 division games so since we’re almost to the halfway point of the season, NY has had basically the correct percentage of in-division games so far. BOS’s schedule is quite backloaded, I’ve said it before but the schedule makers did a very bad job this season.
That makes sense. I’m just amazed at how well the Yanks have done within a very tough division. They’re having a helluva season so far.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
If the 14 games against the Rays and the mfy doesn't go well this thread could be relevant again. I am not rooting against the Sox, but I feel the need to point out your snark might be a bit too soon and in any case not needed.
All of the bridge jumpers will be back looking to finally make this thread relevant.Truth is, this thread was never relevant. It was started on May 24th, just 16 days after opening day. The thread was a complete shit show for a month and then it lay dormant for another month. Now, two months after it's premature conception, the Sox are in second place in the division, sit in the top WC position and have the 3rd best record in the league. Make no mistake there is work to be done and while all of the doomsdayers point to the slew of divisional games left to play, I ask if it's not unreasonable to see opportunity there. No matter how you feel about him, ATM the team seems to have found a guy who looks like the lead off hitter that they have been looking for. No matter how you feel about him, ATM the team seems to have found a guy who might be ready to assume the closer's role. All of a sudden, first base and right field aren't as big of a problem as they were. There's still room for improvement, but Franchy and RFsnyder have helped stabilize those positions. Offensively, everybody in the lineup has been contributing lately, the defense seems much improved, oh and that new guy at second seems to have shown some improvement. Pivetta, Wacha, Winckowski.... Nice job holding the rotation together fellas.

Sure things can turn to shit, it's a long season. And the fact that it's a LONG season is exactly why the Boston Red Sox do not become sellers just 16 days in. Is this level of play sustainable for the rest of the season? Probably not. Is it reasonable think that they can continue to play a better brand of baseball and remain in the WC race? I think so.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
23,722
Miami (oh, Miami!)
All of the bridge jumpers will be back looking to finally make this thread relevant.
Disagree. The Sox are sellers. They've been marketing some serious whoop-ass, and even giving it away for free now and again.

Sure things can turn to shit, it's a long season. And the fact that it's a LONG season is exactly why the Boston Red Sox do not become sellers just 16 days in. Is this level of play sustainable for the rest of the season? Probably not. Is it reasonable think that they can continue to play a better brand of baseball and remain in the WC race? I think so.
More seriously, there is still a long way to go. It's possible epic-nose dives or injuries will make the thread relevant by the ASB, but the same can be said for any team. Apart from that, the Sox positioned themselves in the standings to be competitive in the WC scrum, and their showing against the tougher teams between now and the ASB will probably be a reasonable bellwether for the season. Their fate is in their hands.

As a note for the (premature and misguided) premise of the thread, what will also change is the performance value of players this year, which will impact any theoretical keep/sign/trade calculus. E.g., Pivetta was attractive to other teams due to his upside and team control. But by running off a half-season of "he's finally doing it" starts, he has made himself untouchable. No matter what the fortunes of the team this season.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
23,722
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Teams have to play 76 division games so since we’re almost to the halfway point of the season, NY has had basically the correct percentage of in-division games so far. BOS’s schedule is quite backloaded, I’ve said it before but the schedule makers did a very bad job this season.
I agree with the general point, but it invites an interesting question. Suppose you somehow knew your team was going to suck out of the gate and then find its stride, while your division favorite/rival was going to go on an epic tear.

In that scenario, do you want to face in-division rivals more often in your crappy beginning, equally throughout, or more often later in the season?

I am not sure.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,620
I agree with the general point, but it invites an interesting question. Suppose you somehow knew your team was going to suck out of the gate and then find its stride, while your division favorite/rival was going to go on an epic tear.

In that scenario, do you want to face in-division rivals more often in your crappy beginning, equally throughout, or more often later in the season?

I am not sure.
How much of their great turnaround is based on not playing as many games against the division?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,567
The fortunate thing is they have some pieces they can sell no matter their record (Diekman, Hernandez, maybe Hill/Wacha, maybe Barnes) no matter if they’re going for it or rebuilding.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,199
CA
The fortunate thing is they have some pieces they can sell no matter their record (Diekman, Hernandez, maybe Hill/Wacha, maybe Barnes) no matter if they’re going for it or rebuilding.
I don’t know, with Matt Barnes’ ERA (7.94) at close to the same as hos AAV ($8.0m) , I don’t think there are going to be any buyers.
 

A Bad Man

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2016
1,050
I'm not above an I Told You So:

I am frustrated, too, but it’s still much too early to give up on this season. After a long winter, the first weeks of baseball are always like this. It makes me think of Chris Shelton and Eric Thames; we thought they might be gods.
There are areas of immediate concern (Matt Barnes, for one), but the team will get hot and come July we’ll be around .500, not .385. We’ll also have three times as much information to go on.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
All of the bridge jumpers will be back looking to finally make this thread relevant.Truth is, this thread was never relevant. It was started on May 24th, just 16 days after opening day. The thread was a complete shit show for a month and then it lay dormant for another month. Now, two months after it's premature conception, the Sox are in second place in the division, sit in the top WC position and have the 3rd best record in the league. Make no mistake there is work to be done and while all of the doomsdayers point to the slew of divisional games left to play, I ask if it's not unreasonable to see opportunity there. No matter how you feel about him, ATM the team seems to have found a guy who looks like the lead off hitter that they have been looking for. No matter how you feel about him, ATM the team seems to have found a guy who might be ready to assume the closer's role. All of a sudden, first base and right field aren't as big of a problem as they were. There's still room for improvement, but Franchy and RFsnyder have helped stabilize those positions. Offensively, everybody in the lineup has been contributing lately, the defense seems much improved, oh and that new guy at second seems to have shown some improvement. Pivetta, Wacha, Winckowski.... Nice job holding the rotation together fellas.

Sure things can turn to shit, it's a long season. And the fact that it's a LONG season is exactly why the Boston Red Sox do not become sellers just 16 days in. Is this level of play sustainable for the rest of the season? Probably not. Is it reasonable think that they can continue to play a better brand of baseball and remain in the WC race? I think so.
This thread was very relevant given how well the Al east was doing the first month or so. There was no question that certain guys would turn it around, but it was fair to question if the sox could make up the ground when those guys did turn it around. I will admit I didn't see the Sox turning it around to such an insane degree, but it still didn't make this thread irrelevant.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
This thread was very relevant given how well the Al east was doing the first month or so. There was no question that certain guys would turn it around, but it was fair to question if the sox could make up the ground when those guys did turn it around. I will admit I didn't see the Sox turning it around to such an insane degree, but it still didn't make this thread irrelevant.
Perhaps, but you seem to have reveled in their troubles earlier and appear to be looking forward to a hard road against the Rays and Yankees. I am not sure if you are a Red Sox fan or not based on your posts. Which is fine, we are welcoming to all fans here. But perhaps you should identify your allegiance so we can tell if you are just disappointed in the teams' makeup and progress, or if this is what you are hoping for
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
This thread was very relevant given how well the Al east was doing the first month or so.
No, it really wasn't. Deciding that a team with as much talent as the Red Sox should be "sellers" based on the first month or so is a knee-jerk reactionary type of thread ... not one based on logic or historical perspective.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
No, it really wasn't. Deciding that a team with as much talent as the Red Sox should be "sellers" based on the first month or so is a knee-jerk reactionary type of thread ... not one based on logic or historical perspective.
And thinking the Sox would rebound and climb out of their hole didn't seem too logical given how the rest of the AL east was playing. As for historical how many teams that started ten and ninteen make the playoffs? How many win the world series?
 
Last edited:

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
And thinking the Sox would rebound and climb out of their hole didn't seem too logical given how the rest of the AL east was playing. As for historical how many teams that started ten and ninteen make the playoffs? How many win the world series?
Here's an interesting article that comes close to answering your question. It's notes the teams with the slowest starts at the 25, 50 and 81 game marks to make the playoffs. For the record the Sox were 10-15 after 25 games and 23-27 after 50 games. Also for the record once again, this thread was started after a 7-9 start.
https://www.mlb.com/news/slowest-starts-by-teams-that-made-playoffs
The list goes only as far back as 1995, the start of the WC era and does not include 2020.

*Denotes pennant winner
#Denotes World Series winner

FIRST 25 GAMES
Division winners

9-16: 2015 Rangers (finished 88-74)
9-16: 2006 Twins (finished 96-66)
10-15: 2006 Padres (finished 88-74)
10-15: 2005 Yankees (finished 95-67)
Six division winners have started 11-14
Wild Card winners
8-17: 2001 Athletics (finished 102-60)
10-15: 2014 Pirates (finished 88-74)
10-15: 2009 Rockies (finished 92-70)
10-15: 2007 Rockies (finished 90-73)*
Seven Wild Card winners have started 11-14

FIRST 50 GAMES
Division winners

22-28: 2013 Dodgers (finished 92-70)
22-28: 2012 Athletics (finished 94-68)
22-28: 2007 Cubs (finished 85-77)
22-28: 1996 Cardinals (finished 88-74)
23-27: 2018 Dodgers (finished 92-71)*
23-27: 2015 Blue Jays (finished 93-69)
23-27: 2012 Tigers (finished 88-74)*
23-27: 2006 Twins (finished 96-66)
23-27: 2006 Athletics (finished 93-69)
Three division winners started 24-26
Wild Card winners
18-32: 2005 Astros (finished 89-73)*
19-31: 2019 Nationals (finished 93-69)#
20-30: 2009 Rockies (finished 92-70)
21-29: 2007 Yankees (finished 94-68)
21-29: 2003 Marlins (finished 91-71)#
21-29: 1995 Yankees (finished 79-65)
23-27: 2014 Pirates (finished 88-74)
23-27: 2008 Brewers (finished 90-72)
23-27: 2007 Rockies (finished 90-73)*
Two Wild Card winners started 24-26
 

pk1627

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 24, 2003
2,515
Boston
And thinking the Sox would rebound and climb out of their hole didn't seem too logical given how the rest of the AL east was playing.
Logic had nothing to do with it. You lost your nerve because the Sox gave up 3 in the bottom of the 10th to lose a game in Tampa.

We didn’t know about 10,000 things on April 24, like:
1. How great the Yankee first half would be
2. Key injuries to Rays and BJ’s
3. Emergence of pitching assets: Schreiber, Wacha, Houck, Winck
4. Contributions of Duran, Franchy and Refsnyder
5. Story could hit the ball (after he made peace with his Texas roots)
6. This team made great strides in defense

Frankly, I don’t see how logic played any part in waving the white flag on April 24.


[TH][/TH]
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Logic had nothing to do with it. You lost your nerve because the Sox gave up 3 in the bottom of the 10th to lose a game in Tampa.

We didn’t know about 10,000 things on April 24, like:
1. How great the Yankee first half would be
2. Key injuries to Rays and BJ’s
3. Emergence of pitching assets: Schreiber, Wacha, Houck, Winck
4. Contributions of Duran, Franchy and Refsnyder
5. Story could hit the ball (after he made peace with his Texas roots)
6. This team made great strides in defense

Frankly, I don’t see how logic played any part in waving the white flag on April 24.
Add that Nick Pivetta wasn't going to remain a pitcher with a 10.03 ERA, but rather pitch like an All Star
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,105
I don't think the thread was ever "who should we trade now that we are sellers". More like "who would we trade in the event that we become sellers. Which was a perfectly reasonable scenario at the time. I'm glad it doesn't look like that will come to fruition, barring a disaster over the next 4 weeks.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
I don't think the thread was ever "who should we trade now that we are sellers". More like "who would we trade in the event that we become sellers. Which was a perfectly reasonable scenario at the time. I'm glad it doesn't look like that will come to fruition, barring a disaster over the next 4 weeks.
The thread was started April 24, based on an earlier post in a game thread. Even as an "in the event" thread, it was far too early
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
The thread was started April 24, based on an earlier post in a game thread. Even as an "in the event" thread, it was far too early
It seems there is a simple solution. If you don't like the topic of a particular thread then don't post. Moondog has it right. Becoming sellees see.ed more likely at the point that the thread was created and it led to some interesting conversations. You are not the thread police.
 

BringBackMo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,318
It seems there is a simple solution. If you don't like the topic of a particular thread then don't post. Moondog has it right. Becoming sellees see.ed more likely at the point that the thread was created and it led to some interesting conversations. You are not the thread police.
Or, you can stop polluting thread after thread with this nonsense, and stop with the defense of this ridiculous thread. You may or may not mean to, but you are coming across as a troll. The “I’m not rooting against the Red Sox but if they lose a bunch of games in a row, they’re going to be just as bad off as they were at the start of the season” only needed to be said the first dozen or so times once the team started rolling. I, for one, first mocked that trope a month or so ago. Now it just seems like you’re enjoying pissing people off. The Sox keep winning but you keeping banging the same old sky-is-falling drum.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
It seems there is a simple solution. If you don't like the topic of a particular thread then don't post. Moondog has it right. Becoming sellees see.ed more likely at the point that the thread was created and it led to some interesting conversations. You are not the thread police.
Thread police??? Now THERE'S an oldie but goodie!

I am offering my opinion as to the validity of the topic of the thread.

Only someone telling posters not to post in a particular thread would be attempting to "police" it
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
Or, you can stop polluting thread after thread with this nonsense, and stop with the defense of this ridiculous thread. You may or may not mean to, but you are coming across as a troll. The “I’m not rooting against the Red Sox but if they lose a bunch of games in a row, they’re going to be just as bad off as they were at the start of the season” only needed to be said the first dozen or so times once the team started rolling. I, for one, first mocked that trope a month or so ago. Now it just seems like you’re enjoying pissing people off. The Sox keep winning but you keeping banging the same old sky-is-falling drum.
You do realize there have been many posters who have participated in this thread. There is a difference between weighing in on the topic of a thread and debating a threads need to exist. And for the record I have not been banging the sky is falling drum. I disageee with some of Cora's moves, but overall I am thrilled with how the team is doing.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
You do realize there have been many posters who have participated in this thread. There is a difference between weighing in on the topic of a thread and debating a threads need to exist. And for the record I have not been banging the sky is falling drum. I disageee with some of Cora's moves, but overall I am thrilled with how the team is doing.
Yes, yes you have.

this seems to be consensus. other than one person’s opinion statements to the contrary.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
Yes, yes you have.

this seems to be consensus. other than one person’s opinion statements to the contrary.
Would you care to present evidence? I have criticize Cora and I have pointed out about 2 to 4 weeks ago it was much too early to breathe easy. Also I agree with many posters on this board that the 14 games against the Yanks and Rays can possibly determine which direction Bloom goes. None of that is saying the sky is falling.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,672
The team that won the World Series in 2019 started 19-31. And didn’t have the luxury of a third wild card spot. And how good the rest of the ALEast is, specifically, is also less important because of the third Wild Card team: except for the Orioles they might all make the playoffs.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
It seems there is a simple solution. If you don't like the topic of a particular thread then don't post. Moondog has it right. Becoming sellees see.ed more likely at the point that the thread was created and it led to some interesting conversations. You are not the thread police.
I am, though. If it were solely up to me, you would have been gone weeks ago but I have been inexplicably overruled on that thus far. I am locking this thread though, which indeed never needed to be started and is now going again for no reason but your inability to admit you were wrong then and you are still wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.