FA Cup

They're not that different from City or Chelsea, just not quite as rich.
No club in the Premier League is community-owned. They're all run by big businessmen and other moneyed people of some sort, aren't they? If you can't see a gulf of difference between the ESL 6 and a run-of-the-mill, not-as-rich guy as Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha (or Mike Ashley, etc.) owning a club with as little tradition of success as Leicester City, I don't know what to tell you. Leicester has and can have no expectation of reaping Champions League prize money in perpetuity. They are more likely to be relegated next year than to win the Champions League; it's a credit to Brendan Rodgers and his players that the likelihood of the former is as close to zero as it is, but the fact remains that they are at least as likely to finish in the bottom half of the table in 2021-22 as they are to qualify for the Champions League.

I watched the FA Cup Final on the BBC, and Gary Lineker was barely able to speak at the start of the postgame show - he's a Leicester lad, and he couldn't help but think of his deceased father having watched Leicester lose their four previous cup finals and not being around to watch their first win. THAT is the difference. It's the difference between expecting to win trophies every season and being delightedly surprised to win one. There are fans of 20 or 30 other also-ran clubs in England who ought to believe that if Leicester City can win the Premiership and now the FA Cup in a five-year span, maybe, just maybe they can hope to do so as well. Sheffield Wednesday is a big enough club that @Dummy Hoy ought to be able to at least dream of what *might* happen if the right owners take over and can pick the right manager, and if that manager then picks the right players. (Which, to give another older example, is also what happened when Jack Walker's money helped Blackburn Rovers when the Premiership in 1994-95.) That feeling is what fans of most American sports teams are able to feel year-in and year-out - it's certainly what I get as a Braves, Hawks and especially Falcons fan. If fans of more clubs were realistically at least able to hope for big things in their future, European football from top to bottom would be much healthier in many respects.
 

tmracht

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SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
3,070
My wife yelled at me for cheering so loudly on the pinball goal that I almost woke up the baby then consoled me at the final whistle eventhough she had no idea why I was sad after dancing moments before.

Man I hate VAR, yes Chilwell was off but that last 6 minutes+ would have been insanity.
 

coremiller

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Jul 14, 2005
5,846
No club in the Premier League is community-owned. They're all run by big businessmen and other moneyed people of some sort, aren't they? If you can't see a gulf of difference between the ESL 6 and a run-of-the-mill, not-as-rich guy as Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha (or Mike Ashley, etc.) owning a club with as little tradition of success as Leicester City, I don't know what to tell you. Leicester has and can have no expectation of reaping Champions League prize money in perpetuity. They are more likely to be relegated next year than to win the Champions League; it's a credit to Brendan Rodgers and his players that the likelihood of the former is as close to zero as it is, but the fact remains that they are at least as likely to finish in the bottom half of the table in 2021-22 as they are to qualify for the Champions League.

I watched the FA Cup Final on the BBC, and Gary Lineker was barely able to speak at the start of the postgame show - he's a Leicester lad, and he couldn't help but think of his deceased father having watched Leicester lose their four previous cup finals and not being around to watch their first win. THAT is the difference. It's the difference between expecting to win trophies every season and being delightedly surprised to win one. There are fans of 20 or 30 other also-ran clubs in England who ought to believe that if Leicester City can win the Premiership and now the FA Cup in a five-year span, maybe, just maybe they can hope to do so as well. Sheffield Wednesday is a big enough club that @Dummy Hoy ought to be able to at least dream of what *might* happen if the right owners take over and can pick the right manager, and if that manager then picks the right players. (Which, to give another older example, is also what happened when Jack Walker's money helped Blackburn Rovers when the Premiership in 1994-95.) That feeling is what fans of most American sports teams are able to feel year-in and year-out - it's certainly what I get as a Braves, Hawks and especially Falcons fan. If fans of more clubs were realistically at least able to hope for big things in their future, European football from top to bottom would be much healthier in many respects.
The Srivaddhanaprabha family are reportedly worth several billion dollars. No, they're not as rich as Sheikh Mansour, and they don't control a nation-state (although apparently they're very well politically connected in Thailand and their wealth depends on a lucrative government monopoly), but their ownership of Leicester is every bit the corrupt sportswashing that City and PSG and Chelsea (and others) are engaged in. City were in basically the same position as Leicester in the mid-2000s, and Chelsea hadn't won the league since the 50s when Abramoovich bought them.

If the dream is, "maybe a corrupt foreign billionaire will decide to launder his ill-gotten gains through our club and we'll win a trophy in the process," that's hardly the model football should be shooting for. Doesn't mean Leicester supporters shouldn't enjoy the moment, but Leicester do not represent a meaningful alternative to the problems plaguing modern football.
 
If the dream is, "maybe a corrupt foreign billionaire will decide to launder his ill-gotten gains through our club and we'll win a trophy in the process," that's hardly the model football should be shooting for.
I don't disagree with this in principle. But a) Leicester, unlike the other Big Six clubs, didn't have any past glories of note to call upon before the Ranieri miracle season. And b) for all of the Srivaddhanaprabha family money, how much of that is being invested in the club? According to https://www.spotrac.com/epl/payroll/, Leicester has the 9th largest wage bill in the league, behind the Big Six plus Crystal Palace (!) and Everton - and there's a massive drop-off from 6th (Tottenham at £129m) to 7th (Palace at £85m), with Leicester down at £74m. Leicester is mostly succeeding through smart management, not reputation-backed financial firepower.

Consider this from another angle: How many marquee players would choose Leicester over a Big Six club if given the choice? Or to put it in more concrete terms, assume Leicester holds onto a Top Four place and one of Chelsea or Liverpool is the odd man out of the Champions League (assuming Chelsea loses to Man City in the CL final): what sort of player would choose Leicester over a Europa League-bound Chelsea/Liverpool? Going to Leicester means going to a club which might feel compelled - and has in the past felt compelled - to sell its best assets, and a club whose manager might well be inclined to leave for a more prestigious job if one comes available to him: there is no long-term competitive security. This...
City were in basically the same position as Leicester in the mid-2000s, and Chelsea hadn't won the league since the 50s when Abramoovich bought them.
...unfortunately isn't relevant: City and Chelsea were bankrolled to the hilt at just the right time to not only get on the gravy train, but to become it. "Financial Fair Play" is almost expressly designed to stop clubs like Leicester from becoming like City and Chelsea. The fact that Leicester can win an FA Cup and potentially finish ahead of three or even four of the Big Six clubs in the end-of-season table is an amazing achievement, period. Yes, any club needs *some* financial backing to be in position to achieve this. But Leicester is still punching way above its weight this season, and doing so in a way that other moderately-sized clubs could conceivably emulate. That's worth celebrating in my book.
 

teddykgb

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Jul 16, 2005
11,025
Chelmsford, MA
I don't disagree with this in principle. But a) Leicester, unlike the other Big Six clubs, didn't have any past glories of note to call upon before the Ranieri miracle season. And b) for all of the Srivaddhanaprabha family money, how much of that is being invested in the club? According to https://www.spotrac.com/epl/payroll/, Leicester has the 9th largest wage bill in the league, behind the Big Six plus Crystal Palace (!) and Everton - and there's a massive drop-off from 6th (Tottenham at £129m) to 7th (Palace at £85m), with Leicester down at £74m. Leicester is mostly succeeding through smart management, not reputation-backed financial firepower.

Consider this from another angle: How many marquee players would choose Leicester over a Big Six club if given the choice? Or to put it in more concrete terms, assume Leicester holds onto a Top Four place and one of Chelsea or Liverpool is the odd man out of the Champions League (assuming Chelsea loses to Man City in the CL final): what sort of player would choose Leicester over a Europa League-bound Chelsea/Liverpool? Going to Leicester means going to a club which might feel compelled - and has in the past felt compelled - to sell its best assets, and a club whose manager might well be inclined to leave for a more prestigious job if one comes available to him: there is no long-term competitive security. This...

...unfortunately isn't relevant: City and Chelsea were bankrolled to the hilt at just the right time to not only get on the gravy train, but to become it. "Financial Fair Play" is almost expressly designed to stop clubs like Leicester from becoming like City and Chelsea. The fact that Leicester can win an FA Cup and potentially finish ahead of three or even four of the Big Six clubs in the end-of-season table is an amazing achievement, period. Yes, any club needs *some* financial backing to be in position to achieve this. But Leicester is still punching way above its weight this season, and doing so in a way that other moderately-sized clubs could conceivably emulate. That's worth celebrating in my book.
But this is where FFP fails us. Depending on where you look Leicester are probably running about 50 million pounds or so profit in an average season with their current revenues. If the team wants to capitalize on a group of talented young players and make a jump they simply cannot do it. If LCFC ownership wanted to take a shot and try to bring in 3 big players, say Sancho,Lautaro, and maybe fork over HG money for Rice or Grealish they’d need to sell most of their squad to do so. Or start working in the board room to get new sponsorships, book that profit the next season, and try to keep all your players in the interim. It’s just not a path and it lets the City/United/Liverpool/4th team see you coming from a mile away and pitch your best players before you can strengthen. How long will it be before someone steals Barnes, Fofana, Tielemans, Soyuncu, Ndidi, etc. They’ll need to sell some of those playersto buy others and it puts these teams in a vice where they have to be absolutely perfect in bringing youth through
 
But this is where FFP fails us. Depending on where you look Leicester are probably running about 50 million pounds or so profit in an average season with their current revenues. If the team wants to capitalize on a group of talented young players and make a jump they simply cannot do it. If LCFC ownership wanted to take a shot and try to bring in 3 big players, say Sancho,Lautaro, and maybe fork over HG money for Rice or Grealish they’d need to sell most of their squad to do so. Or start working in the board room to get new sponsorships, book that profit the next season, and try to keep all your players in the interim. It’s just not a path and it lets the City/United/Liverpool/4th team see you coming from a mile away and pitch your best players before you can strengthen. How long will it be before someone steals Barnes, Fofana, Tielemans, Soyuncu, Ndidi, etc. They’ll need to sell some of those playersto buy others and it puts these teams in a vice where they have to be absolutely perfect in bringing youth through
This is exactly my point - we're on the same side here. FFP is a tool for big clubs already entrenched at the top to keep other rising clubs at bay. But the fact that Leicester - like Lille (to a lesser extent) this year in France, or e.g. Montpellier in 2012 - can win trophies and potentially qualify for the Champions League at least shows it is *possible* for a club outside of the entrenched power structure to do well, which in turn should give other outsider clubs hope for their future. I don't want to believe that only six clubs in England are competing for silverware, and the other clubs in the Premier League are there to make up the numbers. So you're damn right I'm going to rejoice in Leicester's win yesterday.