Figure skating

Fratboy

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They TIED in the free skate. Literally tied at 156.65, but Medvedeva is in "first" because of the higher component score.
 

Beomoose

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Nope. Zagitova won it because of the harder short program, and also the harder long program.
Eh, it was one point. She milked the bonus for putting the jumps in the back half of her programs. Medvedeva's programs weren't any less hard, and she told a story while she performed them.
 

Fratboy

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Eh, it was one point. She milked the bonus for putting the jumps in the back half of her programs. Medvedeva's programs weren't any less hard, and she told a story while she performed them.
They *were* less hard though. It's much harder to do all your jumps in the second half of the program, and Zagitova does tougher combination jumps than Medvedeva. (Medvedeva's difficulty is second in this field.)
 

cromulence

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Aug 25, 2009
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It's not an abuse at all. She maximized her points.

Evan Lysacek did the same thing in 2010 and we sure didn't hear any bitching about it then.
Maybe abuse is the wrong word, but it just feels like the current scoring system has some flaws. I'll leave it at that. And as much of a homer as I was and am, Lysacek's gold always felt a little funky.
 

Infield Infidel

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It's not an abuse at all. She maximized her points.

Evan Lysacek did the same thing in 2010 and we sure didn't hear any bitching about it then.
Yeah, that's the system and she gamed it fair and square. I'd prefer they changed second half to last minute of the program, half is too long. But as the rules are now, she rocked it
 

cromulence

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Only been true in every modern Olympics, I repeat what I said at the start: if there are judges involved...it ain't a sport.
I don't get it, are you saying that nothing should ever change with judging in figure skating because of its fantastic history? Or should we just totally not give a shit? I might just be misreading you. Anyway, some of the very simple things in there (like not allowing judges to score athletes from their own country) make a lot of sense and seem like they'd help improve the culture.
 

Fratboy

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Medvedeva's program:

3F+3T
3Lz
FCCoSp
StSq
3F
3Lo
2A+2T+2T
3S+3T

2A
ChSq
CCoSp
LSp

Zagitova's program:

ChSq
FCSp
StSq
3Lz
2A+3T
3F+2T+2Lo

LSp
3Lz+3Lo
3S
3F
2A
CCoSp

Zagitova had the tougher 3 jump combo, and 3Lz+3Lo is much, much tougher than 3F+3T. 3S+3T is tougher than 2A+3T, but not by enough to cancel them out. Add the bonuses for the jumps in the second half, and she wins on technical.

There was room for Medvedeva to win on the program components, and the judges *could* have given it to her, but they didn't.

All in all, Zagitova based on the better short program. I think this is the correct result.
 

Couperin47

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I don't get it, are you saying that nothing should ever change with judging in figure skating because of its fantastic history? Or should we just totally not give a shit? I might just be misreading you. Anyway, some of the very simple things in there (like not allowing judges to score athletes from their own country) make a lot of sense and seem like they'd help improve the culture.
It can NEVER be 'corrected', there are only so many even vaguely competent 'judges', EVERY ONE of them have biases towards certain nations and coaches they all know and work with; every judge will favor some and then there are most who are always influenced by 'reputation', someone who isn't already ranked very high has virtually no chance of rising all that high if they suddenly had a miracle performance. Call all these things 'competitive athletics' or any other name, but sports have objective scoring and winners, nothing that's 'judged' is a sport.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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It didn't look to me like Medvedeva was quite as clean as some of the other skaters on her landings. I thought Zagitova executed her program just a little better than Medvedeva. Given the difference in difficulty, Medvedeva really needed to be absolutely perfect. She didn't have any significant errors, but she wasn't perfect.
 

reggiecleveland

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I don't get it, are you saying that nothing should ever change with judging in figure skating because of its fantastic history? Or should we just totally not give a shit? I might just be misreading you. Anyway, some of the very simple things in there (like not allowing judges to score athletes from their own country) make a lot of sense and seem like they'd help improve the culture.
Just because something is not a sport, doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile.
 

BigMike

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Just saw the medal ceremony. Them playing the Olympic Anthem, and raising the Olympic flag was just all kinds of weird, and as the focused on Alina's face it felt like more of a when is this going to end scenario, instead of the normal athlete tearing up because of hearing their anthem
 

InsideTheParker

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I didn't like M's choice of Anna Karenina, b/c at the end, I don't believe Anna would have felt like jumping in the air. I know she jumped in front of the train, but this visual metaphor didn't translate for me.

Also, I don't have the understanding of the competition that Frat has, but I "felt" that Z. looked better than M. and I reckoned she would win. She had the ability to make the viewer feel confidence in her.
 

BigMike

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Sep 26, 2000
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No idea what the last post was about?

Very harsh article on the results from USA today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2018/02/23/wrong-russian-won-gold-medal-womens-figure-skating-2018-winter-olympics/366111002/

But the judges had been propping up Zagitova’s long program component score as the 2017-18 season wore on. In a September 2017 competition, the same long program earned Zagitova a 67.52 PCS. By November it was up to 69.54. Same skater. Same program.

And now, a huge, almost unprecedented leap to 75.03.
I have no doubt she has improved the artistic quality/elements of the program over the last 6 months, but that much that in September it was pretty pedestrian, and last night was as within a fraction of the best artistic skaters in the world
 

Van Everyman

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That article is a big mess of a hottake. I would agree that Medvedeva got hosed on the artistic component. She was outstanding – the closest comparison I can remember is Katarina Witt. She had a very dramatic, very *commanding* style and presence that had gold written all over her at the Olympics. That should be rewarded and was somewhat overlooked.

But artistic merit is a purely qualitative judgement. Technical merit is another matter. And, as has been noted, while she has few peers, in this skate she did not dominate technically in nearly close to the same fashion.

Also, I think people are not giving Zagitova her due. She is far more than a ”jumper.” Is she the artist M is? No. But she’s not chopped liver either. And by comparison she skated a better technical program than the two scores reflected.

I feel pretty comfortable saying that the right skater won.
 

Couperin47

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Cromulence. I guess, thinks I'm 'disrespecting' skating by insisting it's not a sport. We want competition because it adds drama and, lord knows, we are a species of drama queens. Just deal with the reality that once you introduce aesthetics it's always going to be subjective in infinite ways. It's not gaming the system to use the rules or other things that are obvious like musical taste. I doubt anyone will contest the assertion that a skater who performs both her long and short programs to AC/DC (like the Hungarian) has as much chance these days of winning gold anywhere as an atheist woman presidential candidate who claims to have had 2 abortions.

Edit: If you want to discuss who really seems to be lacking respect, Nagasu's remark that she was 'basically auditioning for Dancing with the Stars' with her final skate has most aghast today....
 
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Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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Kaetlyn killed the exhibition dance.

Shibs were meh, a little disjointed and boring (for Dance).
 

Ale Xander

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Alina holy moly

Had to look over my shoulder every 15 seconds to make sure Chris Hansen wasn't there. Mature beyond her age.
 

BigMike

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Sep 26, 2000
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I'm a bit dissapointed. I will have to find the Hernandez one, I may have missed that. Honestly I remember a bit more "fun" in these skating spectacular. As Medvedeva is a self admitted KPop fan, I thought we would see something more uptemp and fun.