Florio: Pash ordered PSI readings “expunged” in 2015

BaseballJones

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Rank these organizations in terms of how corrupt they are: NCAA, NFL, IOC, FIFA

Not an easy exercise.
 

Ed Hillel

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Hell, Bill Nye the Science Guy (and Seahawks fan) messed up the IGL as well in the wake of the "scandal."

Rooting preferences trump actual science even from the self-proclaimed experts.
To defend Bill Nye the Science Guy (a very important thing to do!), his comments were based on Mort's false Tweet that the footballs were over 2 PSI below league regulations. Nye would have been right in that case. Of course, the numbers were actually around 1.2-1.3 PSI below league allowance, which is precisely where they should have been.

But this does bring up an important point: The league knew Mort's numbers were wrong all the way until the Well Report was released and never once corrected them. That tells you all you need to know.
https://985thesportshub.com/2022/02/07/new-deflategate-report-confirms-what-people-with-brains-already-assumed/

“Doesn’t mean nothing happened. The text messages between the seemingly witness-protected John Jastremski and Jim McNally were a smoking gun. But while those were damning, that wouldn’t have been early enough to prove Brady’s guilt beyond all doubt.”

Smoking gun? Of WHAT!?
Of the crime science proves never happened, of course. Again, also ignoring the context that these men DID deflate footballs (legally) as part of their job.
 
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Reverend

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To defend Bill Nye the Science Guy (a very important thing to do!), his comments were based on Mort's false Tweet that the footballs were over 2 PSI below league regulations. Nye would have been right in that case. Of course, the numbers were actually around 1.2-1.3 PSI below league allowance, which is precisely where they should have been.
Maybe we should look at what Bill Nye actually said.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dSY_QZKt1NI


That’s some serious bullshit.

How the whole thing was presented on air is even more instructive as to how the bullshit worked:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFoRKPaTVU


Ultimately, though, if Bill Nye wants to be a science guy, he doesn’t just say Yay or Nay, he shows his work. He didn’t do that and just hopped on a news fad. @TomRicardo showed his work. Nye may do a lot of good work popularizing science with young people, but in weighing in on something real he was proved a charlatan; The science guy didn’t do science.

If anyone wants to see how an actual scientist addresses something like this, then check this out—this is a thorough clinic:

View: https://youtu.be/wwxXsEltyas
 

BaseballJones

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Nye came off as a complete and utter buffoon and embarrassed himself thoroughly during that episode. And I’m actually being generous here.
 

pappymojo

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To defend Bill Nye the Science Guy (a very important thing to do!), his comments were based on Mort's false Tweet that the footballs were over 2 PSI below league regulations. Nye would have been right in that case. Of course, the numbers were actually around 1.2-1.3 PSI below league allowance, which is precisely where they should have been.

But this does bring up an important point: The league knew Mort's numbers were wrong all the way until the Well Report was released and never once corrected them. That tells you all you need to know.
Of the crime science proves never happened, of course. Again, also ignoring the context that these men DID deflate footballs (legally) as part of their job.
The league knew Mort's numbers were wrong all the way until the Well Report was released and not only never once corrected them but instead actively instructed the Patriots not to correct them.
 

BaseballJones

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The league knew Mort's numbers were wrong all the way until the Well Report was released and not only never once corrected them but instead actively instructed the Patriots not to correct them.
That’s correct. They ordered the Pats to keep quiet about that. I mean think about that.

We are investigating this thing. We know it’s totally wrong and yet we are going to penalize you guys. We know the data we are using to punish you is erroneous, and we’ve known it from the beginning. And we know that you know. But you can’t say anything even though not saying something is going to sink you in the court of public opinion, because then our punishment for you is going to be even worse.

It’s like planting evidence on a suspect that did nothing wrong, and the suspect has knowledge that you’ve planted the evidence, but you tell him he can’t tell anyone because you’re going to screw him, and if he tells anyone you’re screwing him, you’re gonna screw him even more.

That level of corruption is mind boggling if you think about it.
 

Marbleheader

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They were better off having Matt Damon explain it rather than Nye, they're both just entertainers.
 

McBride11

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They were better off having Matt Damon explain it rather than Nye, they're both just entertainers.
Ya but ‘My boy’s wicked smaht.’
‘Do you know how easy this shit is for me’

yes i recently rewatched GWH

Nye and NDT do co... sosh at the rest

(Summarized) do considerable work to bring science to the masses. Have some flaws but i find them a net positive
 

Bongorific

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BaseballJones

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Honestly the pressure should be brought to bear against the NFL. Goodell talked incessantly about the “integrity of the game” when they’ve been exposed now as having done everything to undermine the very idea of integrity.

Wetzel says he should apologize to Brady. How about apologizing to the Patriots and giving back their lost picks? Because those losses had a tangible impact on the organization.
 

BaseballJones

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That lost pick could have come in handy during SB52. Just sayin’.
Or in 2019.

Or.... Now.

And picks, plural. They took two. And in large part because deflate gate made the Pats “multiple time cheaters”, the Pats got docked another third round pick for that insanely dumb taping thing at the Browns game a couple of years ago. So it contributed to three lost/stolen picks.

Hell yeah they could have come in handy.
 

snowmanny

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Honestly the pressure should be brought to bear against the NFL. Goodell talked incessantly about the “integrity of the game” when they’ve been exposed now as having done everything to undermine the very idea of integrity.

Wetzel says he should apologize to Brady. How about apologizing to the Patriots and giving back their lost picks? Because those losses had a tangible impact on the organization.
He talks about giving back their pick
 

PedroKsBambino

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I know it won't happen, but I wish Brady would sue the league and force discovery on this. He doesn't care about the money and couldn't be compelled to settle. Though, at this point his theory on how to do so is probably a bit strained.

Won't happen, but I can dream...
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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https://985thesportshub.com/2022/02/07/new-deflategate-report-confirms-what-people-with-brains-already-assumed/

“Doesn’t mean nothing happened. The text messages between the seemingly witness-protected John Jastremski and Jim McNally were a smoking gun. But while those were damning, that wouldn’t have been early enough to prove Brady’s guilt beyond all doubt.”

Smoking gun? Of WHAT!?
It’s never been totally clear to me what the deal was with those texts and what they were actually discussing. To me, the texts are the one piece that I keep hearing people harp on when the subject comes up – this article, Florio last week. I specifically remember Shaughnessy on the radio guffawing at the notion that “the Deflator” referred to Jimmy McNally’s weigh loss (argued on the In Context webpage I believe). It also doesn’t really help that McNally and Jastremski both were effectively disappeared.

Can someone share a definitive answer or interpretation on what the texts actually meant?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It’s never been totally clear to me what the deal was with those texts and what they were actually discussing. To me, the texts are the one piece that I keep hearing people harp on when the subject comes up – this article, Florio last week. I specifically remember Shaughnessy on the radio guffawing at the notion that “the Deflator” referred to Jimmy McNally’s weigh loss (argued on the In Context webpage I believe). It also doesn’t really help that McNally and Jastremski both were effectively disappeared.

Can someone share a definitive answer or interpretation on what the texts actually meant?
I suspect they refer to the Jets game, where the refs over-inflated the balls and "they were like fuckin rocks," per McNally. Details are a little fuzzy but I think the Dorito Dinks measured those balls and they were 16.0 PSI and Brady hated that. So I suspect these two jamokes would check the balls to see if they were over-inflated and take a little out of them at halftime if so.

And this again goes back to the fact that no one in the league gave a damn about PSI in footballs until the Ravens bitched in the wake of getting humiliated by the unusual formations in the playoff game.

It's always helpful to assume that the NFL and its teams are the bitchiest and pettiest of high school cliques.
 

lexrageorge

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I always thought the exchange that got them in the most trouble were the texts about how they got fucked by the refs who overinflated the balls in the locker room, and how Brady was pissed at them over it. And how they were going to deliberately over inflate the balls just to get back at Brady for giving them a hard time:

https://www.wcvb.com/article/patriots-employees-traded-texts-about-deflated-footballs-1/8224926#

https://time.com/3849688/deflategate-text-messages-patriots-tom-brady/

IIRC, Brady also claimed he did not know who one of them was (cannot recall if it was McNally or Jastremski), a claim I found hard to believe and really did not help Brady's case. Still, the idea that these texts were evidence of ball tampering is laughable.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I always thought the exchange that got them in the most trouble were the texts about how they got fucked by the refs who overinflated the balls in the locker room, and how Brady was pissed at them over it. And how they were going to deliberately over inflate the balls just to get back at Brady for giving them a hard time:

https://www.wcvb.com/article/patriots-employees-traded-texts-about-deflated-footballs-1/8224926#

https://time.com/3849688/deflategate-text-messages-patriots-tom-brady/

IIRC, Brady also claimed he did not know who one of them was (cannot recall if it was McNally or Jastremski), a claim I found hard to believe and really did not help Brady's case. Still, the idea that these texts were evidence of ball tampering is laughable.
Brady didn't claim that, he said he didn't know the guy's name and called him....."Bird," I think.
 

drbretto

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Can someone share a definitive answer or interpretation on what the texts actually meant?
No. Because it was a bunch of out of context nonsense that only seemed like evidence if someone started with the assumption they were guilty. If you don't start with that assumption, they're just a couple of dinks.
 

Jungleland

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I know it's not totally fair to TB that his name was smeared over bullshit, but at this point am I really the only one kind of happy deflategate happened? Mona Lisa Vito/I am NOT a scientist. Absolutely epic Patriots against the world buildup to the Seahawks super bowl. The Brissett Texans game. And of course, coming back from 28-3 to put the cap on avenging the suspension. The direct aftermath of the controversy gave us more incredible moments in the ensuing 2 years than many fanbases get in a lifetime. I wouldn't trade those for 3 picks and *checks Tom Brady's reputation* still being referred to as the unanimous GOAT. Cherry on top to get evidence the NFL knew they messed up, but as a fan I'm honestly not even a little bit mad about it anymore.
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
I'm still convinced that in the long run this will only add to Brady and Pats' legacy.

The whole story is so outlandish that from a distance people will think, "wow the NFL really lost their minds trying to break up the dominance of the Patriots."

Whether or not that outweighs what I'll conservatively say is one lost Super Bowl is another story (starting with the Spygate persecution and going all the way through the Browns/Bengals nonsense, there is real damage with the sustained handicap the Pats face in the draft.)
 

BaseballJones

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No. Because it was a bunch of out of context nonsense that only seemed like evidence if someone started with the assumption they were guilty. If you don't start with that assumption, they're just a couple of dinks.
This.

If someone believed that any one of us was guilty of some wrongdoing, and went through our texts, they could probably find something that *appears* to justify that belief.

Out of a gazillion texts, there was just a couple that even kinda sorta semi hinted at anything remotely related to deflating footballs.

Remember, the original suspension was because Brady “more likely than not knew about a scheme to deflate footballs”. I mean..... what the hell?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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This.

If someone believed that any one of us was guilty of some wrongdoing, and went through our texts, they could probably find something that *appears* to justify that belief.

Out of a gazillion texts, there was just a couple that even kinda sorta semi hinted at anything remotely related to deflating footballs.

Remember, the original suspension was because Brady “more likely than not knew about a scheme to deflate footballs”. I mean..... what the hell?
The NFL's case in court literally boiled down to "The CBA says we can do anything we want, whether it's warranted or not."

That's the argument of a league that knows it's full of shit.
 

BaseballJones

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The NFL's case in court literally boiled down to "The CBA says we can do anything we want, whether it's warranted or not."

That's the argument of a league that knows it's full of shit.
Right that’s what it became once Brady challenged it. And yes you’re right about what it says about the NFL. But originally the suspended him for what they claimed was a reasonable likelihood that he possessed knowledge about something that OTHERS in the organization were doing. Because they couldn’t even justify claiming that Brady himself was behind it all. Just that he was likely *aware* of it.

Think about that. How can you suspend someone for quite possibly knowing about wrongdoing done by others?

It’s utter insanity.
 

drbretto

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It's worse, to me, that they weren't even particularly clever about it. It seems obvious that they ran a search for the words "deflate" and "needle" and they got "call me the deflator!" and "needle dick" (or whatever, I'm not reading it all again) and thought "hmm... interesting..."
 

dynomite

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I'm still convinced that in the long run this will only add to Brady and Pats' legacy.
I hope this is correct but am skeptical. Deflategate was worldwide news, fodder for jokes on late night TV and social media. This revelation has garnered effectively a few mutterings on the internet and a few websites. Compare the length of the original Delategate thread (hundreds and hundreds of pages, right?) to this one (page 4, as I see it).

The cemented reality for the overwhelming majority of casual NFL fans in America -- and, given the dominance of the sport in recent decades, the majority of Americans who have even a passing familiarity with the NFL -- is "the Patriots are cheaters."

Certain misconceptions, given enough time and repetition, become established facts. How many people know that Napolean was actually average height? That turkey does not make you sleepy because of tryptophan (it contains similar amounts as beef and chicken)? That there were almost no documented cases of "bra burning" as part of feminist movements in the 60s (a bra was burned alongside high-heeled shoes and lipstick at Miss America 1969)?

I think the cake is baked. But we'll know the truth (as we have for a while now), as will most of the honest, knowledgable NFL fans. Deflategate might be a sort of shibboleth -- you can distinguish who is worth listening to (about football, science, or even life itself) by their opinion on this topic.

That lost pick could have come in handy during SB52. Just sayin’.
That running back from Alabama was available at pick 29, Derrick something?

... Sorry, more seriously, agreed with this. We'll never know who the Pats would have taken at 29. Mike Reiss wrote a piece about how the Pats were especially interested in DT Vernon Butler (who went to the Panthers 30th and never did much) and WR Sterling Shepard (who was taken 40th and continues to be fine on the Giants): https://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4803937/what-could-have-been-for-the-patriots-in-first-round-of-2016-draft

Still, the 2nd Round of that 2016 draft was filled with outstanding players beyond the aforementioned Derrick Henry: Myles Jack, Chris Jones, our pal Hunter Henry, Xavien Howard (especially painful because the Pats settled for Cyrus Jones later in the round), Michael Thomas, Tyler Boyd, etc. Maybe the Pats would have grabbed one of them, either at 29 or after trading down a few spots into the 2nd Round. Frustrating to consider.
 
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Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Keep in mind: Roger Goodell and Mike Kensil (28 years) are former employees of the New York Jets. Kensil in particular was deeply involved in that organization and was there when Belichick told them to get stuffed when Parcells tried to withhold the Pats' job offer to him.

This was always a movie about revenge for imagined slights.
 

lexrageorge

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Keep in mind: Roger Goodell and Mike Kensil (28 years) are former employees of the New York Jets. Kensil in particular was deeply involved in that organization and was there when Belichick told them to get stuffed when Parcells tried to withhold the Pats' job offer to him.

This was always a movie about revenge for imagined slights.
And Goodell felt that Belichick did not apologize deeply enough for Spygate or some such nonsense.

I always wondered what the reaction around the league office was when the Wells report went out of its way to exonerate Belichick and to praise him for his cooperation during the investigation. It essentially tied Goodell's hands to some extent, as it's almost certain he wanted to hand down a lengthy suspension.
 

Shelterdog

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And Goodell felt that Belichick did not apologize deeply enough for Spygate or some such nonsense.

I always wondered what the reaction around the league office was when the Wells report went out of its way to exonerate Belichick and to praise him for his cooperation during the investigation. It essentially tied Goodell's hands to some extent, as it's almost certain he wanted to hand down a lengthy suspension.
I don't know for a fact but it would be absolutely shocking if the league didn't have a very good idea of what was in the report before it was released. If I recall there was even evidence in the arbitration that the league's GC edited the report.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I don't know for a fact but it would be absolutely shocking if the league didn't have a very good idea of what was in the report before it was released. If I recall there was even evidence in the arbitration that the league's GC edited the report.
Pash did indeed edit the Wells report, pretty sure that's been admitted to by all sides.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't know for a fact but it would be absolutely shocking if the league didn't have a very good idea of what was in the report before it was released. If I recall there was even evidence in the arbitration that the league's GC edited the report.
I don't dispute that. It would not surprise me that they did ask Wells and team if they were absolutely sure they could not find anything on Bill. And Goodell and Kensil probably tipped the water cooler when they got the answer, before realizing that nailing Brady and getting the picks will still allow them to claim victory.
 

rodderick

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This.

If someone believed that any one of us was guilty of some wrongdoing, and went through our texts, they could probably find something that *appears* to justify that belief.

Out of a gazillion texts, there was just a couple that even kinda sorta semi hinted at anything remotely related to deflating footballs.

Remember, the original suspension was because Brady “more likely than not knew about a scheme to deflate footballs”. I mean..... what the hell?
Ohhh here we go using those pesky definitive words. I believe Brady was suspended because he "more likely than not was generally aware of a scheme to deflate footballs".
 

BaseballJones

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Ohhh here we go using those pesky definitive words. I believe Brady was suspended because he "more likely than not was generally aware of a scheme to deflate footballs".
Just think about that for a second. We live in a world where the national football league suspended its greatest player, who had never had even a hint of scandal (before or after), because of what you just wrote.
 

rodderick

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Just think about that for a second. We live in a world where the national football league suspended its greatest player, who had never had even a hint of scandal (before or after), because of what you just wrote.
I've never understood why Brady was suspended on those terms. So if, say, Gronk was generally aware of that, would he have been suspended as well? The Dorito dinks worked for the Patriots, they didn't respond to Brady specifically. Unless you could determine Brady gave an order to deflate balls in violation of the rules, why the fuck would he be suspended for being aware of a scheme and not any other offensive player? It's so stupid. If that's the conclusion, the most they could have done is fine the team, not a player individually.
 

BigSoxFan

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Just think about that for a second. We live in a world where the national football league suspended its greatest player, who had never had even a hint of scandal (before or after), because of what you just wrote.
Meanwhile, the league opted not to suspend a guy who more likely than not broke his son’s arm. And the fact that the general public doesn’t care about Tyreek Hill but wanted Brady burned at the stake tells you all you need to know about why the NFL can get away with this stuff.
 

Cotillion

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They had a head coach intentionally walk on the field pretending he was watching the scoreboard at the far end during a live play to interfere with kick returner and they did nothing.
 

rodderick

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Meanwhile, the league opted not to suspend a guy who more likely than not broke his son’s arm. And the fact that the general public doesn’t care about Tyreek Hill but wanted Brady burned at the stake tells you all you need to know about why the NFL can get away with this stuff.
Aaron Rodgers broke Covid protocols and spread vaccine misinformation live multiple times while lying to fans and media and his reward will be an MVP. No one gives a shit unless you're successful enough to ruffle feathers.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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They had a head coach intentionally walk on the field pretending he was watching the scoreboard at the far end during a live play to interfere with kick returner and they did nothing.
I think they fined him but yeah. That should have been a "palpably unfair act," a TD awarded, Tomlin ejected from the game and a long suspension.
 

Al Zarilla

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Ben Volin of the Globe asked Goodell in an ask questions of the commish session outside of SOFI, whether Pats fans, the Pats, Brady might should be able to see the PSI data now. He completely dodged the question wrt the Patriots maybe getting screwed, just said that they do spot checking.

On an unseasonably warm day in LA, he looks like he's sweating his face off what with wearing a blue blazer. Couldn't take it off of course.