Future TV panel options

[Couperin47]

Plasma will be gone by the end of the year (Samsung definitely and LG probably though they are being coy).
 
You get few surprises in this industry, but we got one yesterday:
 
As of this morning LG has announced, to be immediately available via Best Buy and other channels a 55" FullHD OLED TV Model 55EC9300 with a list price of....
$3,499.
 
What we know or can infer: It was believed LG was significantly ahead of everyone else on OLED. The biggest stumbling blocks were: blue phosphors aged unevenly and prematurely. LG had been working on a White Organic Light Emitting Diode (WOLED) that supposedly circumvents this issue, but no one knew if these could be produced with decent yields and their lifespan. LG has invested a fortune on a "Gen 8" fab. This introduction can only mean the Fab is already producing better yields than anyone imagined and LG is making an attempt to preemptively delay others from catching up, by making it far more difficult to introduce competing OLED sets with better margins.
 
The set is curved. OLED panels are inherently thin and flexible and because they CAN be curved, so far almost every damn thing with OLED screens is curved: hence the LG G Flex phone. The set should be bright, the colors saturated with black levels equal to the best plasma... what I have not yet seen is ANY comments on the biggest issue: how it handles fast motion.
 
Here's what we can be sure of: Nobody else (Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic, Sony...etc) is yet comfortable enough with their own OLED technology to even think about starting to construct a Fab, so LG probably has at least an 18 month head start if their technology is mature enough to be taken seriously. Everyone else is pushing nothing but 4K Ultra HD next year. Also don't hold your breath for any follow-on larger LG panels since that will require another new Fab and you can be sure LG won't begin to contemplate that until they are sure Fab 8 was 'right' and they have learned all the lessions from it they can before moving on.
 
 

 

[SumnerH]

The set is curved. OLED panels are inherently thin and flexible and because they CAN be curved, so far almost every damn thing with OLED screens is curved
 

 
Even many non-OLED TVs are curved these days.  I don't get it: it makes it much worse for viewing from an angle--you spent the last 10 years trying to improve viewing angles on LED/LCD and now you're intentionally screwing them up?  And it sucks for glare; with flat screens, you can angle the TV so that reflections weren't toward your eye.  With curves, there's almost always a spot of glare if the TV's in a room with a window or light source.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

As someone with a plasma in a room despite the glare (I really just can't stand motion on LED/LCD) I have no idea why I'd want a curved screen. So we now have increased glare, only the people in the viewing "sweet spot" get the "immersion" factor. At large screen sizes it "feels like" you are getting a bigger picture. It "feels like 3D", this is one of things I can't currently stand with LED/LCD is that "feels like 3d picture, which makes it terrible to watch. If i'm on a 60-70" TV I'm pretty sure I don't need to "feel" a larger picture. I don't have a 20' x 20' room so maybe i'm in the minority. 
 
I've almost given up on figuring out what people want for TVs. I love my plasma for everything, including viewing angles (except for glare). I do not like LED/LCD for most things. 4K is another story, which I haven't seen outside of Best Buy with actual content. 

 

[Couperin47]

 
Even many non-OLED TVs are curved these days.  I don't get it: it makes it much worse for viewing from an angle--you spent the last 10 years trying to improve viewing angles on LED/LCD and now you're intentionally screwing them up?  And it sucks for glare; with flat screens, you can angle the TV so that reflections weren't toward your eye.  With curves, there's almost always a spot of glare if the TV's in a room with a window or light source.

 
Once upon a time when stereo was new and a novelty, most every 'good' preamp included a 'reverse stereo' button. A handful of recordings had been pressed with channel reversed (this ain't rocket science...unless your sitting with your back to the orchestra, the first violins should be on the left...). So why did they include this useless option ? because they could ...and it only cost a single cheap switch to do and it helped make that preamp look like it WAS rocket science. OLED is inherently flexible so we are friggin gonna bend it.

 

[riboflav]

I didn't know that plasma was going to be out of the game altogether by the end of the year. I own a plasma and love it and figured I'm about 2-3 years away from needing a new one. Now, I am very much depressed.

 

[SumnerH]

 
Once upon a time when stereo was new and a novelty, most every 'good' preamp included a 'reverse stereo' button. A handful of recordings had been pressed with channel reversed (this ain't rocket science...unless your sitting with your back to the orchestra, the first violins should be on the left...). So why did they include this useless option ? because they could ...and it only cost a single cheap switch to do and it helped make that preamp look like it WAS rocket science. OLED is inherently flexible so we are friggin gonna bend it.

 
Right, but "Reverse Stereo" doesn't hurt anything aside from negligible space and weight.  Curved screens are materially worse, and worse in an area that the industry has been consciously trying hard to improve--and marketing--for the past decade plus.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

My current plan is still to buy one of the PN60F8500s within a month or so while they're still available. It's a shame that the Plasmas are disappearing before OLED really has an opportunity to mature and come down in price at least somewhat competitively as an alternative to LCDs.
 
Couperin, any thoughts on Abe's of Maine or East Coast TV's? They aren't technically an Authorized Dealer, which is what allows them to sell the panels below the price that every other store is selling them at (They're selling the 60" for $1700s rather than $2400). They rely on push sales people to try to upsell the mounts, extended warranty or white glove delivery add on costs, but I figure that if I know what I'm in for going into it. I can take advantage to get a deal.

 

[bohous]

I didn't know that plasma was going to be out of the game altogether by the end of the year. I own a plasma and love it and figured I'm about 2-3 years away from needing a new one. Now, I am very much depressed.

 
 
Stock up! You can get awesome deals on plasma right now.

 

[riboflav]

 
 
Stock up! You can get awesome deals on plasma right now.

 
Yeah, just started looking. Money is tight right now so trying to find a plasma around 51 inches under $800. Don't know if it's worth taking a chance on samsung pn51f5300 or the LG 50pb6650. 
 
Currently have a Panasonic 42-inch bought in Dec. 2009.

 

[Couperin47]

My current plan is still to buy one of the PN60F8500s within a month or so while they're still available. It's a shame that the Plasmas are disappearing before OLED really has an opportunity to mature and come down in price at least somewhat competitively as an alternative to LCDs.
 
Couperin, any thoughts on Abe's of Maine or East Coast TV's? They aren't technically an Authorized Dealer, which is what allows them to sell the panels below the price that every other store is selling them at (They're selling the 60" for $1700s rather than $2400). They rely on push sales people to try to upsell the mounts, extended warranty or white glove delivery add on costs, but I figure that if I know what I'm in for going into it. I can take advantage to get a deal.

 
There are more than scattered reports of Samsung being difficult about warranty from non Authorized dealers. You might want to research that issue at avsforum.com. Worse yet, there are innumerable reviews at tons of sites that no matter how you order at Abe's, invariably you get called the next day and there are issues: the model isn't available, the terms change, in short, unless you wind up paying actually more than the best legit stores charge, they will NOT ship you the TV.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

 
Yeah, just started looking. Money is tight right now so trying to find a plasma around 51 inches under $800. Don't know if it's worth taking a chance on samsung pn51f5300 or the LG 50pb6650. 
 
Currently have a Panasonic 42-inch bought in Dec. 2009.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-50PB6650-50-Inch-PLASMA/dp/B00KQRFLZQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1408998956&sr=1-1&keywords=plasma+tv
 
50" for $599 with free shipping if you're Prime.  If you're not, let me know.  Maybe I can help.

 

[jercra]

Shop around.  There are lots of internet deals.  In 10 seconds of searching slickdeals I found a 60" Panasonic Smart TV with free shipping and some $250 gift card to Dell (or something) for $750
 
http://slickdeals.net/f/7157600-60-lg-60pb6650-1080p-600hz-plasma-smart-tv-for-750-250-egift-card-free-shipping-at-dell

 

[riboflav]

Thanks, guys. I think my main issue is that I've been reluctant to switch brands - i.e. from Panasonic to LG or Samsung - especially when my Panasonic still works well. But, it seems I have little choice if plasmas are going the way of the lead pencil. I just have to come to terms with this.
 
Can anyone vouch for LG plasmas?

 

[jercra]

I've got an LG and it's been fantastic.  I'm not sure what the most important aspects are to you but it's in a very bright room and I've never had a problem viewing.  When compared to my old LCD the colors, blacks and smoothness are miles better.  Sorry for the vagaries but it's kind of hard to put picture quality into words. 

 

[riboflav]

I've got an LG and it's been fantastic.  I'm not sure what the most important aspects are to you but it's in a very bright room and I've never had a problem viewing.  When compared to my old LCD the colors, blacks and smoothness are miles better.  Sorry for the vagaries but it's kind of hard to put picture quality into words. 

 
Cool. Any buzzing issues? It's the only consistent complaint I see. I've never noticed a buzz sound on my current tv.

 

[jercra]

I've never heard a hint of buzzing

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Thanks, guys. I think my main issue is that I've been reluctant to switch brands - i.e. from Panasonic to LG or Samsung - especially when my Panasonic still works well. But, it seems I have little choice if plasmas are going the way of the lead pencil. I just have to come to terms with this.
 
Can anyone vouch for LG plasmas?

 
I can't speak for LG but I got a new Samsung PN51F5300 over the winter and I love it. I couldn't justify the costs of the 8500. $549 at Sears for a 51" 1080p plasma is a no brainer in my opinion. If I hadn't bought this, I'd be buying a plasma tomorrow with them growing more scarce. 

 

[TFP]

 
I can't speak for LG but I got a new Samsung PN51F5300 over the winter and I love it. I couldn't justify the costs of the 8500. $549 at Sears for a 51" 1080p plasma is a no brainer in my opinion. If I hadn't bought this, I'd be buying a plasma tomorrow with them growing more scarce. 

I bought the PN60F8500 this spring and can't say enough how amazing it is. I watched Gravity on it this weekend and was completely blown away by the picture on it. Just ridiculous.
 
I still have a buzzing issue, but it's only when in an absolute sweet spot of sitting/lying on the couch and I'm the only one who can hear it so maybe it's just me.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I would have loved to go with the 60" but not in the room this is in, unfortunately. If I was going 60" I would probably spring for the 8500 as well due to the increased quality at that screen size.

 

[riboflav]

 
I can't speak for LG but I got a new Samsung PN51F5300 over the winter and I love it. I couldn't justify the costs of the 8500. $549 at Sears for a 51" 1080p plasma is a no brainer in my opinion. If I hadn't bought this, I'd be buying a plasma tomorrow with them growing more scarce. 

 
Yeah, Best Buy has it right now for 549. Would prefer a 60 but I guess the 60 has a pentile screen or something that makes it less sharp at closer distances. I'm just afraid I'm going to get the 51 inch and then a year or two from now really wish I had found a 60.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I completely forgot the 60 were pentile. Good catch

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I completely forgot the 60 were pentile. Good catch

I'm going to pull the trigger on the 60, I sit about 12 feet away, some of the kids are in the 8-10 foot range. Is the Samsung 60 plasma a good fit at that distance?

 

[riboflav]

I'm going to pull the trigger on the 60, I sit about 12 feet away, some of the kids are in the 8-10 foot range. Is the Samsung 60 plasma a good fit at that distance?

 
Exactly what I was wondering because my kid sits (i.e. stands) 7-8 feet away.
 
I just got back from Best Buy. It's really hard to tell any differences because they have 51 in a well-lit showroom and the 60 and 64 in a dark showroom over 50 feet away. One thing I did hear while was there:
 
Customer: "I hate plasmas. Just look at it. It's like it's got a film on the screen."
BB Worker: "I hear ya. That's why they don't sell well. They don't look good."

 

[Couperin47]

I'm going to pull the trigger on the 60, I sit about 12 feet away, some of the kids are in the 8-10 foot range. Is the Samsung 60 plasma a good fit at that distance?

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance
 
In almost all cases, people buy a TV that's smaller than optimal (ie. one that does not allow those with even good vision to perceive all the detail available). There are many reasons, but the most prevalent is the horror reflex from women to anything "that gigantic" in any room not devoted specifically to Home Theater.

 

[riboflav]

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance
 
In almost all cases, people buy a TV that's smaller than optimal (ie. one that does not allow those with even good vision to perceive all the detail available). There are many reasons, but the most prevalent is the horror reflex from women to anything "that gigantic" in any room not devoted specifically to Home Theater.

 
I get what you're saying, but the concern is that the 60inch Samsung does not look very good from about 8 feet because of the pentile which is not found on the 51 or 64 inch versions.

 

[Frito Tankona]

Does the pentile thing affect all 60" Samsungs?  I was about to pull the trigger on a 60" 8500 but am now waffling a bit.  I currently have a 55" Panasonic VT60 that I'm concerned is a bit too small.

 

[riboflav]

Does the pentile thing affect all 60" Samsungs?  I was about to pull the trigger on a 60" 8500 but am now waffling a bit.  I currently have a 55" Panasonic VT60 that I'm concerned is a bit too small.

 
I'm 95% sure the 8500 at 60in. does not have the pentile but I'm sure you can google it. How far back do you sit for the 55inch you currently have?

 

[Couperin47]

 
I'm 95% sure the 8500 at 60in. does not have the pentile but I'm sure you can google it. How far back do you sit for the 55inch you currently have?

 
All my research shows that the 60" 5500 and 5300 series used the pentile displays (and the 55 and 65 did not), NO 8500 series Samsungs use this panel.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

 
 
Customer: "I hate plasmas. Just look at it. It's like it's got a film on the screen."
BB Worker: "I hear ya. That's why they don't sell well. They don't look good."

 
I'm shocked they didn't break out:
 
It's not bright enough!
They use too much electricity!
They will heat up your room!
They don't look 3D like the LED. 
You can't play video games or watch TV on them because of burn in!

 

[Frito Tankona]

 
I'm 95% sure the 8500 at 60in. does not have the pentile but I'm sure you can google it. How far back do you sit for the 55inch you currently have?

 
Thanks.  I will google as well. I think we sit about 8 feet from the screen but will measure tonight.  

 

[Frito Tankona]

 
All my research shows that the 60" 5500 and 5300 series used the pentile displays (and the 55 and 65 did not), NO 8500 series Samsungs use this panel.

 
Thanks!

 

[riboflav]

 
Thanks.  I will google as well. I think we sit about 8 feet from the screen but will measure tonight.  

 
My wife and I are sit about 11.5 feet back and it's terrible. We bought our 42in. when we lived in DC and had a very small living room. Now, in the burbs I'm thinking we need 60in. minimum. Some say we should really be at 64in. but the price really jumps at that point.

 

[IdiotKicker]

I don't need a new TV now.  And I hate the idea of spending $2k on a plasma now, even though they look awesome.  My big question is if I am going to buy a TV in 4-6 years, will I have something out there at a reasonable cost ($2-4k) that is at least the quality of the top-line plasmas now?  I'm guessing the answer is yes, but you guys know more than I do on this.

 

[DGreenwood]

Shop around.  There are lots of internet deals.  In 10 seconds of searching slickdeals I found a 60" Panasonic Smart TV with free shipping and some $250 gift card to Dell (or something) for $750
 
http://slickdeals.net/f/7157600-60-lg-60pb6650-1080p-600hz-plasma-smart-tv-for-750-250-egift-card-free-shipping-at-dell

 
I bought this yesterday.  The $250 gift card put me over the top because I was able to convince myself I was getting a 60" Plasma Smart TV for $500 (as long as I put the $250 to good use).  I needed a new TV anyway because my 50" Sony rear projection LCD is telling me that the bulb is due to be replaced and the internet tells me that I can expect the light engine to start to have problems soon with this model.
 
So what do I do with the $250?  I don't really need any computers, computer accessories, or tablets.  My Blue Ray player died a while ago and I've just been using an X-box to play DVDs since.  My sound system is decent but old; I bought it in 2001 so the receiver is just audio.  The 5.1 speakers are pretty good I think (Polk Audio) so I imagine I can still use those.  Dell has a couple receivers in the $300 range (entry level Harman Kardon) .  Is upgrading to a new receiver that manages video and sound my best option?  

 

[jercra]

What do you play through your receiver?  If you have multiple HDMI inputs to your TV having a receiver that can aggregate those can make changing input sources much, much more convenient and the wiring much cleaner.  Other than that, unless you're an audiophile or plan on going to more surround speakers I don't see a new receiver being a necessity.
 
Looks like the have the JBL flip portable bluetooth speaker.  If you don't have one of those you should.  It is a fantastic little device.

 

[DGreenwood]

Honestly I don't use the receiver very often.  Mostly just if I'm watching a movie that seems like it would be a better experience with better sound.  For regular TV viewing and sports I just use the tv speakers.  But I'm worried that the speakers on the new tv may not be as good as the speakers on my current TV (not that the current one is great) so I'm mentally preparing myself for the fact that I might have to use the receiver more often.  I guess I could just hook up a decent sound bar and eliminate the home theater system entirely.  I don't need awesome sound very often, I just don't want to have crappy sound.
 
The only input switching I do right now is between my cable box and the X-box.  I basically use the X-box as a dvd player and for streaming apps like Netflix, Amazon, and MLB.tv.  If I start using the new TV for those apps then the only time I'll need to switch inputs is to watch a dvd.  It wouldn't be a big deal to have to switch the receiver (if I'm using it) and the TV separately in that situation.
 
I guess I could use that JBL portable speaker.  I have something similar to that made by Logitech that I really liked but it's not bluetooth and my iphone 5 doesn't dock to it so my wife (iphone 4) uses it most of the time now.  I've been meaning to buy a lightning adapter for it but going bluetooth means I don't have to worry about what connection my next phone has.

 

[riboflav]

I don't need a new TV now.  And I hate the idea of spending $2k on a plasma now, even though they look awesome.  My big question is if I am going to buy a TV in 4-6 years, will I have something out there at a reasonable cost ($2-4k) that is at least the quality of the top-line plasmas now?  I'm guessing the answer is yes, but you guys know more than I do on this.

 
This is a great question and one I'd like an answer to as well. It seems techies are hoping OLEDs will combine the best of all worlds, but thus far they are very expensive and curved (yuck).

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Well over the course of the last year, the LG OLED has dropped from $15,000 to $3,500. I have to imagine that 4-6 years out they'll definitely be available in many sizes in the $2K range. The bigger question is what people who are looking for the best picture in the next 1-2 years should do other than buy a Plasma while they still exist.

 

[IdiotKicker]

Well over the course of the last year, the LG OLED has dropped from $15,000 to $3,500. I have to imagine that 4-6 years out they'll definitely be available in many sizes in the $2K range. The bigger question is what people who are looking for the best picture in the next 1-2 years should do other than buy a Plasma while they still exist.

 
Yeah, I guess I just don't know enough about OLED technology and how it actually performs now, so I am having thoughts of buying a plasma now even though I don't want it or need it, just because I want to hedge against potentially not liking the next generation of technology.  I just hate the idea of spending that much on something I don't want, which I why I usually talk myself out of it in about 5 minutes, but it is a question that I continue to have.

 

[SumnerH]

Yeah, I guess I just don't know enough about OLED technology and how it actually performs now, so I am having thoughts of buying a plasma now even though I don't want it or need it, just because I want to hedge against potentially not liking the next generation of technology.  I just hate the idea of spending that much on something I don't want, which I why I usually talk myself out of it in about 5 minutes, but it is a question that I continue to have.

Drop by Best Buy and look at an OLED tv, even if you're not going to buy it now. If you like the look, you can be pretty confident that they'll be more affordable in 3 years. If not, start hoarding plasmas. I've always been a plasma > LCD/LED person, but to me OLED screens look pretty awesome.

 

[Couperin47]

Drop by Best Buy and look at an OLED tv, even if you're not going to buy it now. If you like the look, you can be pretty confident that they'll be more affordable in 3 years. If not, start hoarding plasmas. I've always been a plasma > LCD/LED person, but to me OLED screens look pretty awesome.

 
Most Best Buys are supposed to have the $3,500 55" LG display set up in time for this holiday season. If LG has fast motion licked we can be certain nobody else is going to enter the market with anything that's not at least as good. The 'risk' with early OLED sets is likely going to be how fast they age and how the market will react to that ? If the early sets look great are you OK with a visibly dimmer set that's shifting in color bias after 4 years ? 5 ? What will the market consider 'acceptable' ?

 

[riboflav]

Just got back from Best Buy with the wife, this time. Wife and I hated the Samsung Plasma 60inch 5300 with the pentile display. Where they had it displayed, we could only back up 8 or 9 feet and you could notice the difference - looked slightly blurry or pixelly. Ran over to the Big Screen Store. That was a mistake because they had the 64inch on display (Best Buy had none on display or in stock) right next to the 8500 series and MY GOD what a difference. WOWEE!! What a tv. It was love at first sight. I went from not wanting to spend $1000 to now trying to figure out how I can afford a $2400 set. 
 
Tonight's featured conversation at Best Buy:
 
Worker: So it seems you're interested in a plasma?
 
ME: Yes.
 
Worker: Well, they are cheaper. Tell me, is your room bright?
 
ME: Yes, but I watch tv 90% of the time at night. Besides, I already have a plasma and I love it.
 
Worker: You know, you should consider upgrading to an LED. They're much sharper and brighter.
 
ME: Ok. But I watch a lot of sports so I don't want any motion problems like blur. It's why I go for plasmas.
 
Worker: I'm not sure I understand. Motion's got nothing to do with LED or plasma. It's all about Hzs. So some have 60, some have 120, and some have 240. You'll see some blur at 60 but not at 120 and certainly nothing at 240. So just go with a 240. Anyway, this has nothing to do with plasma or LED.
 
ME: Ok. But, plasmas have 600 Hzs and LED maxes out at 240 so it's got something to do with plasma and LED.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I'm torn, haven't done much research other than this thread. The guy at HHGregg is trying to sell me this one and talks crap about Plasmas when I ask to see one. So I haven't really seen a plasma, but I might swing over to BestBuy tomo.
 
Budget is $2K or less, he's trying to sell me this Samsung LED, I haven't decided b/w the 60 or 65. 
 
http://www.hhgregg.com/samsung-60-3d-1080p-240hz-led-smart-hdtv/item/UN60H7150
http://www.hhgregg.com/samsung-65-3d-1080p-240hz-led-smart-hdtv/item/UN65H7150

 

[jercra]

You guys are insane if you buy at a retail shop.  Find the TV you want then look online, there are sooooo many deals and you don't have to deal with morons (well, in person anyway)
 
Just to prove my point, here is the first TV in your link for $200 less than in your link.  That's with like 30 seconds of searching.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

You guys are insane if you buy at a retail shop.  Find the TV you want then look online, there are sooooo many deals and you don't have to deal with morons (well, in person anyway)
 
Just to prove my point, here is the first TV in your link for $200 less than in your link.  That's with like 30 seconds of searching.

I'm not buying it there, just went in to get a look at what's out there. I really want to compare it to the plasma's, but the sales guy was being a dick and I didn't have much time. 

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I think I'm going to spring for that 8500 series Samsung plasma. The cnet article calls it the last great plasma, plus the splooge in this thread is significant.

 

[riboflav]

I think I'm going to spring for that 8500 series Samsung plasma. The cnet article calls it the last great plasma, plus the splooge in this thread is significant.

 
Just got off the phone trying to talk my wife into it.
 
Have you seen one yet? Tell me if you get one and how you like it.

 

[Frito Tankona]

I think I'm going to spring for that 8500 series Samsung plasma. The cnet article calls it the last great plasma, plus the splooge in this thread is significant.

 
I think you're making the right choice.  I think I'll get one too.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

 
I think you're making the right choice.  I think I'll get one too.

Here is the best web price I can find. 
 
http://www.abesofmaine.com/shoppingCart.do?addAccryList=&item=SSPN64F8500++++
 
I am going to head to BestBuy and check it out if they have one. Just to look, its a $3K pricetage at BestBuy and frankly I can wait out the delivery time. So I'll hope to see one tonight. Reviews make it sound unbelievable. 

 

[Couperin47]

Guys, you're going to have to learn to ignore any of my threads regarding flat screen TV, they're all ultimately expensive for some people.