Game 1: Come Tomorrow, Wake Up Anew, See the Sun.

Light-Tower-Power

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If the reserves for Miami shoot like that again.. all bets are off.
Sure but how likely is that? If they shoot like they did tonight from both deep and the mid-range all series tip your cap. They won’t. The Celtics can and will blow Miami out. I don’t think Miami can blow the Celtics out. As long as they play as they should and win Friday, which I fully expect, I think they’re fine. Credit Miami for their shotmaking and what they did in the third, but let’s see how the corpses of Lowry and Love shoot without 4 days rest. And let’s see how Butler’s ankle holds up too.
 

lars10

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It’s why I don’t get fired up about the coaching. This is who they are. They consistently swing between great and awful game to game (or quarter to quarter). I don’t think a coach is going to change that.
I don't think there's any way to know if that's true or not. They've basically had three coaches from basically the same tree. I think they took stuff away from Ime's year and they were pretty good for most of this year as well.. May be nice to have a coach with playoff experience. At the very least Joe could probably use the addition of some experienced assistants
 

lars10

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Sure but how likely is that? If they shoot like they did tonight from both deep and the mid-range all series tip your cap. They won’t. The Celtics can and will blow Miami out. I don’t think Miami can blow the Celtics out. As long as they play as they should and win Friday, which I fully expect, I think they’re fine. Credit Miami for their shotmaking and what they did in the third, but let’s see how the corpses of Lowry and Love shoot without 4 days rest. And let’s see how Butler’s ankle holds up too.
I'm on your train of thought.. just feels like this playoffs that the C's have run into their share of hot shooting.

Edit: I feel like halftime obviously changed the entire game.. the C's had Miami on the ropes and couldn't extend the lead. Even with all of the hot shooting Boston had great chances at the end to claw it back and missed or turned it over..all of the bad things that had to happen did.. Butler though.. man I'm already tired of him again. Respect his game.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I had to pause the game at halftime as I’m dealing with a sick 7 year old. Feel bad for her but feeling good about the first half. After getting her back to sleep I start the game back up from where I left off but clicked the wrong button and it goes to live action with 27 seconds left in the game. Nut punch.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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And yet they just keep doing it.
It’s a frustrating team to root for, no doubt about it. They’re kind of the antithesis of the IT teams or that 2018 team without Kyrie and Hayward that scrapped and clawed and played up to their competition even if they weren’t as talented. These guys are ultra talented but just don’t seem to have that mentality. Thankfully they’re talented enough to overcome.
 

Ale Xander

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Pritchard wasn’t the reason they lost. They were down four points with like 3 minutes left and Tatum turned the ball over three times in the span of 90 seconds. The momentum had turned to the Celtics, they went to their leader and he shit the bed.

There’s a lot of blame to go around, but they were in a position at the end to win that game and they lost because of rookie turnovers.
This
PP was tied for 3rd best +/-, made zero turnovers and didn’t miss any 2 point shots. He provided good spacing and hustle
He’s not the reason we lost
 

OurF'ingCity

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This
PP was tied for 3rd best +/-, made zero turnovers and didn’t miss any 2 point shots. He provided good spacing and hustle
He’s not the reason we lost
If you’re putting Pritchard in, though, you’re putting him in to score, because he’s not a plus defender. He didn’t score and never really got into the flow of the offense (probably because he hasn’t played meaningful minutes in forever) so he was just kind of a body.

Which in a vacuum maybe isn’t the worst thing if you’re trying to spell minutes for someone else but I still don’t see why Grant or Hauser wouldn’t have been better options.
 

Ale Xander

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If you’re putting Pritchard in, though, you’re putting him in to score, because he’s not a plus defender. He didn’t score and never really got into the flow of the offense (probably because he hasn’t played meaningful minutes in forever) so he was just kind of a body.

Which in a vacuum maybe isn’t the worst thing if you’re trying to spell minutes for someone else but I still don’t see why Grant or Hauser wouldn’t have been better options.
I agree that Hauser should be getting some run
Grant too
 

LynnRice75

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I had to pause the game at halftime as I’m dealing with a sick 7 year old. Feel bad for her but feeling good about the first half. After getting her back to sleep I start the game back up from where I left off but clicked the wrong button and it goes to live action with 27 seconds left in the game. Nut punch.
Missing the 3rd quarter was a blessing for you. Same with the frustrating last 4 minutes of the 4th.
 

Cellar-Door

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If you’re putting Pritchard in, though, you’re putting him in to score, because he’s not a plus defender. He didn’t score and never really got into the flow of the offense (probably because he hasn’t played meaningful minutes in forever) so he was just kind of a body.

Which in a vacuum maybe isn’t the worst thing if you’re trying to spell minutes for someone else but I still don’t see why Grant or Hauser wouldn’t have been better options.
I think part of it might have been to get a quicker guy to run through screens on D because Jaylen and Brogdon in particular were losing guys. But yeah, to me it was an okay try the first go round but didn't make much sense the 2nd. In some ways it reminded me of what his opponent Spo likes to do, pull a bench guy he thinks might bring energy and a skill, try him for a couple minutes... but then he went back to him, not sure if it was just a reluctance to go big when Smart got dinged or something else, but I thought it was a mistake, not some huge one, but a mistake.
 

Silverdude2167

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A team that shot 38% from three during the regular season just shot 51% from three...I mean that's insane and they won by 7.

Play this exact game 6 more times and I don think we see this outcome again.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I can't believe nobody has posted this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13ko7pi/marcus_smart_on_timeouts_joes_real_big_on_not/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Mazzulla might need to be fired before Game 2, if that is his coaching mentality. One timeout in the third could have been all they needed. Instead he lets them figure it out en route to an embarrassing loss on their home court.

Again.

Wyc and Pags need to impress upon him that he needs to actually COACH the team of he wants to cash his paycheck. The words "or we'll have you escorted out of the building before the final horn" should come up in that conversation.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I can't believe nobody has posted this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13ko7pi/marcus_smart_on_timeouts_joes_real_big_on_not/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Mazzulla might need to be fired before Game 2, if that is his coaching mentality. One timeout in the third could have been all they needed. Instead he lets them figure it out en route to an embarrassing loss on their home court.

Again.

Wyc and Pags need to impress upon him that he needs to actually COACH the team of he wants to cash his paycheck. The words "or we'll have you escorted out of the building before the final horn" should come up in that conversation.
That's been his philosophy all year. Why would they fire him for it now?
 

Return of the Dewey

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I don't think there's any way to know if that's true or not. They've basically had three coaches from basically the same tree. I think they took stuff away from Ime's year and they were pretty good for most of this year as well.. May be nice to have a coach with playoff experience. At the very least Joe could probably use the addition of some experienced assistants
Not really three coaches from same tree unless you count the 1 year that Maz worked under Ime. There is no coaching tree connection with either of them and Stevens. So, really, we have seen the same team from 3 different coaches. So, no, we can’t know for sure, but we can surmise that the coaching really is not changing the fact that this team is who they have been through past 6 years and 3 coaches: a very good talented team that consistently plays really bad stretches of ball.

And, to be fair, I have seen this core improve in that area over the years. The great stretches of play have become longer and more dominant, and they bad stretches are getting condensed to a quarter every game or two rather than multiple quarters over multiple games. But, if that improvement has happened over 3 different coaches, it seems to indicate that it is more of players getting themselves there.
 
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8slim

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A team that shot 38% from three during the regular season just shot 51% from three...I mean that's insane and they won by 7.

Play this exact game 6 more times and I don think we see this outcome again.
Not to single you out, just a jumping off point… if a team shoots 38% it (obviously) means in many games they shot better than that. So it’s not like being in the 45-50% range is improbable. 70% yes. 51%? Likely they’re around that a few times this series.

A big part of Miami’s successful shooting night was how open they were for so many attempts. A defensive style that’s predicated on hoping your opponents miss is going to be vulnerable to games where they don’t.

123 points is flat out terrible defense. And that comes back to how immature this team continues to be.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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The 46-point third was bad, but the clamps came back on and the Heat only scored 20 in the 4th. This game was still very winnable with 4:50 to go, when Tatum had just made two free throws to get it to five, at 114-109. After that:

Jaylen missed three
Horford missed three, offensive rebound, Horford turnover
Tatum turnover
Brogdon makes 1 of 2 free throws

But the Heat still haven't scored! They're within 4. 114-110.

Caleb Martin 3 - pretty much the dagger, 117-110. But, hey, still 2:10 left. Let's see what happens.

Tatum turnover
Brogdon miss
Tatum turnover

Then Butler makes the three where the ball bounces up in the air. Game over.

Down by 10 with a minute to go. See ya.

So, in 3:50 of game play, they let up six points. Not bad!
Unfortunately, they scored only 1. Pretty shitty.

That stretch for Tatum was among the worst I've ever seen from him. Hesitant to shoot, no idea what to do with the ball, looked like he was intimidated by Caleb Martin. Looked like everyone on the team was trying to "share the ball" and "run the offense," but no one wanted to, like, SHOOT.
 

ObstructedView

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At some point you have to just acknowledge that the Heat are surprisingly good. You can always come up with reasons to denegrate them and the playoffs is a small sample for sure, but this game didn’t seem all that different from some of the Bucks games. They beat you high scoring, they beat you low scoring, and they find a way close and late.

The Celtics didn’t need to match 46. They needed to stay close though. They only scored 50 points in the second half. Some of that had to do with the Heat.
I made the comment last night that there are unsettling similarities with the NHL Panthers - regarded as mediocre because they barely made the playoffs, but just a season removed from being the top seed and a missed shot away from being in the finals. Yes they lost Herro, but the DNA is there. They have talent and coaching, and know how to win. This is not a typical 7/8 seed.
 
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Auger34

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I made the comment last night that there are unsettling similarities with the NHL Panthers - regarded as mediocre because they barely made the playoffs, but just a season removed from being the top seed and a missed shot away from being in the finals. Yes they lost Herro, but the DNA is there. They have talent and coaching, and know how to win. This is not a typical 7/8 seed.
I am responding to you but this is more just because I’ve seen this a lot.

The Heat have one of the best coaches ever. Full stop. They have a player who seemingly elevates himself to superstar status in Butler and another top 25 player in Bam.
After that, the Heat dont have much talent. I’m not trying to denigrate them or call this a Celtics cakewalk..but after their top 2, I don’t think any of their players would make the Boston top 7 and I don’t think that’s even remotely a hot take. They are, by a wide margin, the least talented team left in the playoffs. Lowry, Strus, Martin, and Vincent all are tough and play their roles really well…plus they seem to all make shots when it matters. Maybe that’s a skill but it seems more random to me
 

Auger34

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That stretch for Tatum was among the worst I've ever seen from him. Hesitant to shoot, no idea what to do with the ball, looked like he was intimidated by Caleb Martin. Looked like everyone on the team was trying to "share the ball" and "run the offense," but no one wanted to, like, SHOOT.
This is very interesting and it kind of touches on something that I’ve been thinking. I am trying to think of a good way to frame this because I don’t mean this to be a demerit on Tatum at all.
Most players with Tatum’s size and skill level, when things get hairy or it’s need a bucket time, they drive to the rim and seek out contact or a lay-up. It seems like Tatum prefers to try and create a 3 pointer (mostly with a sids step). I believe all 3 turnovers he had in that stretch were from trying to get to a 3 pointer and the Heat were just suffocating the 3 point line.

One thing I don’t think Jimmy Butler gets nearly enough credit for is just how smart he is on defense. The guy is like Ed Reed out there reading the passing lanes. He did it once to Tatum and once to Horford in the stretch you mentioned. It was thoroughly impressive
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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This is very interesting and it kind of touches on something that I’ve been thinking. I am trying to think of a good way to frame this because I don’t mean this to be a demerit on Tatum at all.
Most players with Tatum’s size and skill level, when things get hairy or it’s need a bucket time, they drive to the rim and seek out contact or a lay-up. It seems like Tatum prefers to try and create a 3 pointer (mostly with a sids step). I believe all 3 turnovers he had in that stretch were from trying to get to a 3 pointer and the Heat were just suffocating the 3 point line.
Yes. It's like Tatum was saying the other day about getting out of his head. Here it seemed like all he could think was, "Joe wants us to get up threes. Gotta compete with the three," which, yes, that's probably what they needed to do because they were getting crushed by 3-point math, but if it overrides his ability to take what's available, or makes him play tight, it's counter-productive.

When Van Gundy was screaming for Tatum to get the ball, I sympathized, but I was also thinking that when the Cs are dominant, it's when they've got 5+ double-digit scorers and they're getting contributions everywhere. Totally not weird for Brogdon/White/Smart/JB/Al to just go off for 12 points in a quarter, and that totally could have happened, but it just seemed like the offense was trying to do "what they're supposed to do" and not getting points however they could come by them.
 

ObstructedView

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I am responding to you but this is more just because I’ve seen this a lot.

The Heat have one of the best coaches ever. Full stop. They have a player who seemingly elevates himself to superstar status in Butler and another top 25 player in Bam.
After that, the Heat dont have much talent. I’m not trying to denigrate them or call this a Celtics cakewalk..but after their top 2, I don’t think any of their players would make the Boston top 7 and I don’t think that’s even remotely a hot take. They are, by a wide margin, the least talented team left in the playoffs. Lowry, Strus, Martin, and Vincent all are tough and play their roles really well…plus they seem to all make shots when it matters. Maybe that’s a skill but it seems more random to me
Setting aside the frustration as a Celtics fan, I think this is actually a fascinating example of how in team sports the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts - at least for stretches. Obviously in the NBA the talent tends to win out, but the Heat play with a cohesiveness and discipline that seems to neutralize talent disparities at individual positions. Why that didn't manifest in a better regular season record is an interesting question, though there were obviously injuries - and the playoffs clearly bring a different level of focus and intensity. Boston's superior talent should still prevail, and for all the angst about the defense I think it'll ultimately come down to hitting more 3s.
 

Auger34

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Yes. It's like Tatum was saying the other day about getting out of his head. Here it seemed like all he could think was, "Joe wants us to get up threes. Gotta compete with the three," which, yes, that's probably what they needed to do because they were getting crushed by 3-point math, but if it overrides his ability to take what's available, or makes him play tight, it's counter-productive.

When Van Gundy was screaming for Tatum to get the ball, I sympathized, but I was also thinking that when the Cs are dominant, it's when they've got 5+ double-digit scorers and they're getting contributions everywhere. Totally not weird for Brogdon/White/Smart/JB/Al to just go off for 12 points in a quarter, and that totally could have happened, but it just seemed like the offense was trying to do "what they're supposed to do" and not getting points however they could come by them.
The Van Gundy/Reggie Miller screaming the same thing over and over got really old, pretty fast.
I agree with what ours saying in the second paragraph there. I wish Tatum would have touched the ball more because he’s a good decision maker but it seemed like they wanted him to basically do what Butler was doing on the other side. Which, to your point, doesn’t make sense as the Celtics have way more offensive talent than the Heat
 

FisksFinger

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The Van Gundy/Reggie Miller screaming the same thing over and over got really old, pretty fast.
I agree with what ours saying in the second paragraph there. I wish Tatum would have touched the ball more because he’s a good decision maker but it seemed like they wanted him to basically do what Butler was doing on the other side. Which, to your point, doesn’t make sense as the Celtics have way more offensive talent than the Heat
I think their point about Tatum getting the ball was more about how, when points are critical to get, you need your best player to get the ball. The delta between your best and second best doesn’t matter.

At least that’s how I interpreted it, and admittedly was also thinking Tatum needed to touch the ball more down the stretch.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Not to single you out, just a jumping off point… if a team shoots 38% it (obviously) means in many games they shot better than that. So it’s not like being in the 45-50% range is improbable. 70% yes. 51%? Likely they’re around that a few times this series.

A big part of Miami’s successful shooting night was how open they were for so many attempts. A defensive style that’s predicated on hoping your opponents miss is going to be vulnerable to games where they don’t.

123 points is flat out terrible defense. And that comes back to how immature this team continues to be.
Not sure where @Silverdude2167 got those numbers, but Miami actually shot 34.4% from deep in the regular season, good enough for 4th worst in the entire NBA.

That said, they are shooting 37.8% from deep in the postseason, good enough for 4th best (conversely, the C's have shot 39.3% in the post-season, which is #1).
 

Auger34

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I think their point about Tatum getting the ball was more about how, when points are critical to get, you need your best player to get the ball. The delta between your best and second best doesn’t matter.

At least that’s how I interpreted it, and admittedly was also thinking Tatum needed to touch the ball more down the stretch.
The delta absolutely does matter though. If your besr creator/player is Jimmy Butler and 2nd best is Old Kyle Lowry, then Butler should 100% touch the ball. If your best player is Kevin Durant and 2nd best is Devin Booker then either one could get the ball.

Again, I thought he should touch the hall more too but I don’t think the situations are remotely the same
 

8slim

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Not sure where @Silverdude2167 got those numbers, but Miami actually shot 34.4% from deep in the regular season, good enough for 4th worst in the entire NBA.

That said, they are shooting 37.8% from deep in the postseason, good enough for 4th best (conversely, the C's have shot 39.3% in the post-season, which is #1).
Gotcha.

Look, it's the NBA, even "poor" shooting teams can have games where they rain 3s. This ain't the MAAC. You gotta play D against everyone or things can go south in a hurry. The Cs aren't committed to playing consistently tough D, hence things go south sometimes.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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Not to single you out, just a jumping off point… if a team shoots 38% it (obviously) means in many games they shot better than that. So it’s not like being in the 45-50% range is improbable. 70% yes. 51%? Likely they’re around that a few times this series.

A big part of Miami’s successful shooting night was how open they were for so many attempts. A defensive style that’s predicated on hoping your opponents miss is going to be vulnerable to games where they don’t.

123 points is flat out terrible defense. And that comes back to how immature this team continues to be.
There’s a 2% chance that a team whose “true” talent is 34.4% will hit 16/31. So it’s either very unlikely to happen again or there was something significantly different about the 3PAs that happened last night. I only watched until the Heat tied it up in the 3rd, but they sure were getting a lot of open looks.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There’s a 2% chance that a team whose “true” talent is 34.4% will hit 16/31. So it’s either very unlikely to happen again or there was something significantly different about the 3PAs that happened last night. I only watched until the Heat tied it up in the 3rd, but they sure were getting a lot of open looks.
Against the Bucks, the Heat's 3pt% was 60, 44.4, 48.5, 40.6, 37.8. Against the Knicks it was 33.3, 34.7, 21.9, 33.3, 30.2, and 25.9.

Small samples, but enough to sort of say that opponent matters. The Heat's 3 point shooting against the Celtics last night fits in pretty comfortably with how they shot against the Bucks, and is aberrational if you look only at the Knicks series.

But I would guess there may very well be a reason why they shot well against the Bucks and did not shoot well against the Knicks. And the question is whether whatever made the Knicks better at 3pt defense is something that Celtics also do, or whether the Celtics are more like the Bucks. I'd just be guessing. I'm sure that whether or not one is glass half full or half empty may dictate how one uses whatever evidence one wants to say why the Celtics are more like the Knicks and that the Bucks are worse and so last night was aberrational.

For me, we have one piece of evidence. They did in fact shoot well against the Celtics. Given that they showed against the Bucks that they can do that consistently against teams, it's a concern that 34.4 percent may be their big picture true talent, but not necessarily their true team-specific talent.
 

lars10

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Against the Bucks, the Heat's 3pt% was 60, 44.4, 48.5, 40.6, 37.8. Against the Knicks it was 33.3, 34.7, 21.9, 33.3, 30.2, and 25.9.

Small samples, but enough to sort of say that opponent matters. The Heat's 3 point shooting against the Celtics last night fits in pretty comfortably with how they shot against the Bucks, and is aberrational if you look only at the Knicks series.

But I would guess there may very well be a reason why they shot well against the Bucks and did not shoot well against the Knicks. And the question is whether whatever made the Knicks better at 3pt defense is something that Celtics also do, or whether the Celtics are more like the Bucks. I'd just be guessing. I'm sure that whether or not one is glass half full or half empty may dictate how one uses whatever evidence one wants to say why the Celtics are more like the Knicks and that the Bucks are worse and so last night was aberrational.

For me, we have one piece of evidence. They did in fact shoot well against the Celtics. Given that they showed against the Bucks that they can do that consistently against teams, it's a concern that 34.4 percent may be their big picture true talent, but not necessarily their true team-specific talent.
what did they do against the C's in the regular season?
 

lars10

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I think it shows what the Celtics really think of him.
You think this is being led by the organization? Or Joe? If not the second.. do you think Brad is telling Joe not to play him? Occam's razor? I think Joe isn't playing him for whateverthefuck reason.