General Offseason Thread.

[lovegtm]

I think I was the person who originally brought up the Bam idea. I don't seriously think Miami would do it; I wanted to illustrate how far Miami is from having the type of package that usually is needed for a star like Lillard.

AD: very good young players + premium picks
PG: Shai + premium picks
Gobert: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good after the fact (Kessler)
Mitchell: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good (Markkannen)
KD: premium picks and 2 good young players, perceived as such at the time (Bridges and Johnson)

Miami has a really hard time putting together such a package because:
- Spo & Riley's reputation is just too good, and people don't value their picks and swaps. Everyone remembers the 2021 unprotected Phoenix got from them for Dragic. It was one of the better circulating assets in the NBA for awhile, but ended up not being worth much, because Spo kept the team competitive and then they signed Butler out of nowhere.
- worse, they don't have as many picks and swaps as teams usually do for these trades
- Herro is seen as kind of a finished product. Portland could take a chance on his being a Markkannen, but their crowded backcourt rules that out.
- Jaquez is older and was drafted to be a good roleplayer, so less upside there

Including Bam in a trade is the only way Miami can get in the ballpark of what other teams have dealt for stars, if you take the Spo/Riley/Miami premium seriously.

 

[benhogan]

I think I was the person who originally brought up the Bam idea. I don't seriously think Miami would do it; I wanted to illustrate how far Miami is from having the type of package that usually is needed for a star like Lillard.

AD: very good young players + premium picks
PG: Shai + premium picks
Gobert: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good after the fact (Kessler)
Mitchell: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good (Markkannen)
KD: premium picks and 2 good young players, perceived as such at the time (Bridges and Johnson)

Miami has a really hard time putting together such a package because:
- Spo & Riley's reputation is just too good, and people don't value their picks and swaps. Everyone remembers the 2021 unprotected Phoenix got from them for Dragic. It was one of the better circulating assets in the NBA for awhile, but ended up not being worth much, because Spo kept the team competitive and then they signed Butler out of nowhere.
- worse, they don't have as many picks and swaps as teams usually do for these trades
- Herro is seen as kind of a finished product. Portland could take a chance on his being a Markkannen, but their crowded backcourt rules that out.
- Jaquez is older and was drafted to be a good roleplayer, so less upside there

Including Bam in a trade is the only way Miami can get in the ballpark of what other teams have dealt for stars, if you take the Spo/Riley/Miami premium seriously.

Yea, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
If PDX capitulates to Dame & Miami's demands, their GM should just quit.

 

[lovegtm]

Yea, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
If PDX capitulates to Dame & Miami's demands, their GM should just quit.

Yes, but I doubt that his conclusion, after seeing Silver's unprecedentedly strong support, is "I should capitulate".

 

[the moops]

Bosh & Bron left small market teams in the dust to go to Miami

True, but there is nothing that can realistically be done, or should be done, about guys wanting to play where they want to play when they hit free agency

 

[lovegtm]

True, but there is nothing that can realistically be done, or should be done, about guys wanting to play where they want to play when they hit free agency

Exactly. This is purely about a guy trying to have his extension cake and eat it too.

Also, even though Kawhi wanted LA and eventually got it in FA, he fully performed his contracted services when dealt to Toronto. What Lillard was telling teams he'd do is completely out of bounds.

 

[InstaFace]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/272643/Mark-Jackson-Laid-Off-By-ESPN-With-Doris-Burke-Doc-Rivers-Set-To-Be-Lead-Analysts

There goes that man...

I enjoyed this spiteful one-liner more than I had any right to.

 

[ManicCompression]

I don't seriously think Miami would do it; I wanted to illustrate how far Miami is from having the type of package that usually is needed for a star like Lillard.

Who else WANTS to trade for Lillard? What other team would/could give up that kind of a package for him, even if he said nothing about Miami? Going through the standings:

Mil - no
Bos - no, not without giving up Brown
Philadelphia - no
Cle - no
New York - no, already have Brunson and don't have the kinds of assets you list (good young players, good picks - though they have a lot of picks)
Brooklyn Nets - potentially would want him, but they don't have their own picks and don't have enticing young players
Atlanta Hawks - no, already have Trae
Heat.- discussed
Bulls - potentially want him, but don't have the assets you list
Raptors - What are they even doing? I guess they could trade for him, but in your scenario, you'd expect them to give up Barnes, which they wouldn't do
Pacers - No, Haliburton and team too young
Washington Wizards - No, tanking
Orlando Magic - Potentially, but again, your expectation is that they give up Wagner in a trade - would they do that for Dame? I don't think so
Charlotte Hornets - No
Detroit - Potentially, but they're not trading Cade or Thompson - is Ivey/Duren really better than the Heat package? And are they willing to do that for what might be one of the 3-4 worst teams in the league this year?

Denver - no
Memphis - no
Sac - no
Phoenix - no
LAC - no, even less asset rich than the Heat
GWS - no
LAL - like Clippers, they have little to trade
Minnesota - Potentially, but would have to be Dame for Kat, and we don't know if Portland even wants that - no real picks to trade beyond because of Gobert
OKC - have the assets, doubt they have the interest
NOP - Couldn't trade for him even if they wanted to because of salary structure/cheap owner (unless Portland wants CJ McCollum back I guess?)
Dallas - No
Utah - No
Houston - Potentially would want him if I'm being generous, but do they want to short circuit the rebuilt that much?
SaS - No, rebuilding

So i count 7 teams who might possibly be in discussions for Lillard, and no one is really jumping out at me as having a better package than Miami or WILLING to part with the valuable young players you're talking about (because they want to pair Lillard with them).

Regardless of what Lillard said, the market for him kind of sucks because a combination of:
- he's old
- he plays a not valuable position
- Since the AD trade, picks have been centralized among a few teams, leaving a good chunk of contenders asset poor. You listed 5 teams that gave up the farm for star players - they can't do it again, and that's about 1/4 of the contenders who'd have a use for a player like Dame

Maybe I'm missing something, but show me the team who thinks they're a Dame away and is willing to trade the "valuable young player(s) +trove of picks" package that you outline.

 

[the moops]

Bos - no, not without giving up Brown

This isn't just about BOS, for other teams fall into the same "could" they put together a package.

BOS "could" put together a robust package without including Brown. The salary match is the biggest hurdle, but BOS "could" trade firsts in 2024 (two of them if they want to), 2026, 2028, and 2030. With sawps in the other years.

 

[ManicCompression]

This isn't just about BOS, for other teams fall into the same "could" they put together a package.

BOS "could" put together a robust package without including Brown. The salary match is the biggest hurdle, but BOS "could" trade firsts in 2024 (two of them if they want to), 2026, 2028, and 2030. With sawps in the other years.

But that's my point. What's the salary match? And where are the young players that lovegtm is saying are in all of these big trades? And are a bunch of Boston picks/swaps (with the ages of Tatum and Brown) better than Miami picks, who are staring at a decline from their best players (including Lillard)?

It's not obviously better to me than Miami's package, nevermind whether Wyc would even greenlight them becoming peak-Warriors expensive.

 

[Devizier]

Would anyone have projected Durant to the Suns this time last year?

 

[benhogan]

True, but there is nothing that can realistically be done, or should be done, about guys wanting to play where they want to play when they hit free agency

Agreed

It's just when guys sign a gtd deal and then demand one of those 2 spots, or players take discounts to go there (their right)
it's a bad look for the NBA and devalues the 28 other franchises

not much can be done other than changes to the CBA & Silver tongue lashings

I enjoyed this spiteful one-liner more than I had any right to.

Can't miss the easy ones

JVG/MJ spent years telling us what a terrible product the NBA was, it was a pretty easy call. The media has plenty of young ex-NBA players cutting their teeth on podcasts to pick from. JJ has been really good, I kind of hope he doesn't go into coaching.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Agreed

It's just when guys sign a gtd deal and then demand one of those 2 spots, or players take discounts to go there (their right)
it's a bad look for the NBA and devalues the 28 other franchises

not much can be done other than changes to the CBA & Silver tongue lashings



Can't miss the easy ones

JVG/MJ spent years telling us what a terrible product the NBA was, it was a pretty easy call. The media has plenty of young ex-NBA players cutting their teeth on podcasts to pick from. JJ has been really good, I kind of hope he doesn't go into coaching.

Thank Buddha that someone mentioned JVG too. I dislike his act as much as MJ's.

 

[InstaFace]

JVG/MJ spent years telling us what a terrible product the NBA was, it was a pretty easy call. The media has plenty of young ex-NBA players cutting their teeth on podcasts to pick from. JJ has been really good, I kind of hope he doesn't go into coaching.

If you look at research on couples, you'll see stats tossed around that happy couples have a ratio of positive things said to or about each other to negative things said to or about each other that's like 7:1 or more, and unhappy couples have lower ratios (i.e. more-negative).

I liked JVG, felt like he had insightful things to say and was pretty straight with the listeners, didn't sugarcoat, didn't over-dramatize. Sure, he occasionally criticized officials or players if he felt something was amiss, but it felt to me like the ratio was in the happy zone, where it wasn't over the top and he still loved basketball, loved the NBA, and wanted the listener to love it too. Not to the extent that, say, Tommy loved the Celtics and wanted to share that love with listeners, but JVG's job is also very different in being nonpartisan. I guess the NBA (or ESPN) may not have felt the ratio was properly in-whack, but I have to say I personally don't think it was out of whack. I dunno, maybe he was just being paid too much and they thought it was time for younger blood. But I'd have rather canned Jackson and seen how JVG would do with someone new, than axing them both and hoping a new mix will be magical. Grass is always greener, etc.

 

[InstaFace]

I think I was the person who originally brought up the Bam idea. I don't seriously think Miami would do it; I wanted to illustrate how far Miami is from having the type of package that usually is needed for a star like Lillard.

AD: very good young players + premium picks
PG: Shai + premium picks
Gobert: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good after the fact (Kessler)
Mitchell: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good (Markkannen)
KD: premium picks and 2 good young players, perceived as such at the time (Bridges and Johnson)

Miami has a really hard time putting together such a package because:
- Spo & Riley's reputation is just too good, and people don't value their picks and swaps. Everyone remembers the 2021 unprotected Phoenix got from them for Dragic. It was one of the better circulating assets in the NBA for awhile, but ended up not being worth much, because Spo kept the team competitive and then they signed Butler out of nowhere.
- worse, they don't have as many picks and swaps as teams usually do for these trades
- Herro is seen as kind of a finished product. Portland could take a chance on his being a Markkannen, but their crowded backcourt rules that out.
- Jaquez is older and was drafted to be a good roleplayer, so less upside there

Including Bam in a trade is the only way Miami can get in the ballpark of what other teams have dealt for stars, if you take the Spo/Riley/Miami premium seriously.

This is a great post, well written, and I agree with you - but why the hell are you making it at 4:19am ET?

 

[Euclis20]

But that's my point. What's the salary match? And where are the young players that lovegtm is saying are in all of these big trades? And are a bunch of Boston picks/swaps (with the ages of Tatum and Brown) better than Miami picks, who are staring at a decline from their best players (including Lillard)?

It's not obviously better to me than Miami's package, nevermind whether Wyc would even greenlight them becoming peak-Warriors expensive.

Yeah once everyone comes around to the fact that Brown for Lillard was just too risky for both sides, it becomes clear that Boston just isn't a fit. If Tatum and Brown are off the table, we don't have anything that can beat Miami's offer. I'm not a fan of Herro at all, but he's more interesting for a rebuilding team (even one without a need for a guard) than Robert Williams, and we don't have any other young players with any kind of interesting ceiling (and Herro is more than 2 years younger than TL). Our draft picks 4-8 years out certainly aren't any more enticing than Miami's, not when Brown and Tatum are 7-8 years younger than Butler and Miami has spent more time in the lottery than we have over the last 15 years.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Who else WANTS to trade for Lillard? What other team would/could give up that kind of a package for him, even if he said nothing about Miami? Going through the standings:

Mil - no
Bos - no, not without giving up Brown
Philadelphia - no
Cle - no
New York - no, already have Brunson and don't have the kinds of assets you list (good young players, good picks - though they have a lot of picks)
Brooklyn Nets - potentially would want him, but they don't have their own picks and don't have enticing young players
Atlanta Hawks - no, already have Trae
Heat.- discussed
Bulls - potentially want him, but don't have the assets you list
Raptors - What are they even doing? I guess they could trade for him, but in your scenario, you'd expect them to give up Barnes, which they wouldn't do
Pacers - No, Haliburton and team too young
Washington Wizards - No, tanking
Orlando Magic - Potentially, but again, your expectation is that they give up Wagner in a trade - would they do that for Dame? I don't think so
Charlotte Hornets - No
Detroit - Potentially, but they're not trading Cade or Thompson - is Ivey/Duren really better than the Heat package? And are they willing to do that for what might be one of the 3-4 worst teams in the league this year?

Denver - no
Memphis - no
Sac - no
Phoenix - no
LAC - no, even less asset rich than the Heat
GWS - no
LAL - like Clippers, they have little to trade
Minnesota - Potentially, but would have to be Dame for Kat, and we don't know if Portland even wants that - no real picks to trade beyond because of Gobert
OKC - have the assets, doubt they have the interest
NOP - Couldn't trade for him even if they wanted to because of salary structure/cheap owner (unless Portland wants CJ McCollum back I guess?)
Dallas - No
Utah - No
Houston - Potentially would want him if I'm being generous, but do they want to short circuit the rebuilt that much?
SaS - No, rebuilding

So i count 7 teams who might possibly be in discussions for Lillard, and no one is really jumping out at me as having a better package than Miami or WILLING to part with the valuable young players you're talking about (because they want to pair Lillard with them).

Regardless of what Lillard said, the market for him kind of sucks because a combination of:
- he's old
- he plays a not valuable position
- Since the AD trade, picks have been centralized among a few teams, leaving a good chunk of contenders asset poor. You listed 5 teams that gave up the farm for star players - they can't do it again, and that's about 1/4 of the contenders who'd have a use for a player like Dame

Maybe I'm missing something, but show me the team who thinks they're a Dame away and is willing to trade the "valuable young player(s) +trove of picks" package that you outline.

I think that you are too quick to say “no” on Philadelphia, they not only have (or can get) the resources, they have Daryl Morey.

 

[lovegtm]

This is a great post, well written, and I agree with you - but why the hell are you making it at 4:19am ET?

Italian espresso post in the late morning, my friend

 

[ManicCompression]

I think that you are too quick to say “no” on Philadelphia, they not only have (or can get) the resources, they have Daryl Morey.

Please elaborate. They're light on draft picks and their best young player is essentially a Tyler Herro clone. What do they have to offer that's better than Miami?

 

[Euclis20]

Maxey is younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling than herro. Their draft assets aren't great, but I'd rather have philly's picks 4+ years out than miami's given their timelines and management.

They'd need a third team because Maxey should be worth less to Portland than to other teams given who they already have at guard, but he's the sort of player you have to give up to get a player like lillard. All things considered, he's a level above herro in value.

 

[joe dokes]

I liked JVG, felt like he had insightful things to say and was pretty straight with the listeners, didn't sugarcoat, didn't over-dramatize. Sure, he occasionally criticized officials or players if he felt something was amiss, but it felt to me like the ratio was in the happy zone, where it wasn't over the top and he still loved basketball, loved the NBA, and wanted the listener to love it too. Not to the extent that, say, Tommy loved the Celtics and wanted to share that love with listeners, but JVG's job is also very different in being nonpartisan. I guess the NBA (or ESPN) may not have felt the ratio was properly in-whack, but I have to say I personally don't think it was out of whack. I dunno, maybe he was just being paid too much and they thought it was time for younger blood. But I'd have rather canned Jackson and seen how JVG would do with someone new, than axing them both and hoping a new mix will be magical. Grass is always greener, etc.

My sentiments exactly. JVG was interesting and knowledgeable.

 

[Swedgin]

I think I was the person who originally brought up the Bam idea. I don't seriously think Miami would do it; I wanted to illustrate how far Miami is from having the type of package that usually is needed for a star like Lillard.

AD: very good young players + premium picks
PG: Shai + premium picks
Gobert: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good after the fact (Kessler)
Mitchell: premium picks and a player who turned out to be good (Markkannen)
KD: premium picks and 2 good young players, perceived as such at the time (Bridges and Johnson)

I think you have to toss the Gobert trade as a comp. That was objectively awful deal the moment it was announced, which everyone hated.

AD and Donovan were 26 at the time of the trade, and Markkannen was seen as mostly salary match, not a good young player. Durant is a reasonable comp. Now Portland just needs another team with championship aspirations and an aging former starr to change hands, so the new owner can make a similarly over the top offer.

Lilliard is 33, a smallish guard and under contract through 2026-27, when will he will be 37 and making 67M. A good player and all the picks, swaps seem like a fair deal to me. The real issue is can they re-route Herro to bring back someone who makes more sense for Portland. Would sending a pick or two Toronto's way entice them to give up Siakam in exchange for Herro? Maybe dump Nurkic's salary as well. Siakam and Grant can be the grown ups while Scoot, Simmons and Sharpe develop (and can be strategically rested to ensure Portland's own picks continue to have value). Toronto needs shooting desperately and to stop loosing its players in FA for nothing. Herro woud be more on the build around Barnes timeline than Pascal.

 

[the moops]

Maxey is younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling than herro. Their draft assets aren't great, but I'd rather have philly's picks 4+ years out than miami's given their timelines and management.

While he is cheaper, it makes salary matching more difficult, and he is also going to get paid next year.

 

[ManicCompression]

Maxey is younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling than herro. Their draft assets aren't great, but I'd rather have philly's picks 4+ years out than miami's given their timelines and management.

They'd need a third team because Maxey should be worth less to Portland than to other teams given who they already have at guard, but he's the sort of player you have to give up to get a player like lillard. All things considered, he's a level above herro in value.

Maxey is 11 months younger - it's not a huge difference. I'm also not sure about ceiling, or if it's different enough to be important - they're both 6'2" non-distributor scoring guards who aren't good on defense. RE: Picks, it's not like Pat Riley is going to live forever, and the Sixers have Embiid for the next four seasons - the 2029 Miami vs. 2029 Sixers pick seems more like a tossup to me than slam dunk Sixers.

I'm not saying that it's not possible the Sixers package could/would be better (do they even want Lillard is another question) - I'm questioning the idea that it's clearly better than Miami b/c other posters keep postulating hypothetical "other" trades out there that could be so obviously superior to Miami's, if only Lillard never opened his mouth.

 

[the moops]

PHI owes their 2025 and 2027. The only first they can offer is their 2029 or 2030

 

[Euclis20]

While he is cheaper, it makes salary matching more difficult, and he is also going to get paid next year.

He will get paid next year (and likely more than Herro), but any trade would include Harris. No problem matching salaries.

Maxey is 11 months younger - it's not a huge difference. I'm also not sure about ceiling, or if it's different enough to be important - they're both 6'2" non-distributor scoring guards who aren't good on defense. RE: Picks, it's not like Pat Riley is going to live forever, and the Sixers have Embiid for the next four seasons - the 2029 Miami vs. 2029 Sixers pick seems more like a tossup to me than slam dunk Sixers.

I'm not saying that it's not possible the Sixers package could/would be better (do they even want Lillard is another question) - I'm questioning the idea that it's clearly better than Miami b/c other posters keep postulating hypothetical "other" trades out there that could be so obviously superior to Miami's, if only Lillard never opened his mouth.

Maxey has played 3 years to Herro's 4 (more room for improvement on that alone), and he's actually performed in the playoffs: 20.7 ppg with a TS% of .580 in 23 playoff games over the last 2 years. Since his rookie year, Herro has averaged 11.9 ppg in the playoffs, with a TS% of .490. The kindest thing you can say about his playoff performance since the bubble is that he gets hurt a lot, which doesn't exactly help him when compared to Maxey. They're both small guards with defensive issues, but Maxey is definitely longer (6'6 wingspan compared with 6'3 for Herro) and more athletic. The Sixers will still have Embiid (if he hasn't asked out, which is a real possibility if they don't start going deep in the playoffs), but I'm not very bullish on his ability to age well and remain healthy as he hits his mid 30s. I'm 75% sure I'd rather have Bam in 2027 than Embiid, I'm 100% positive that I'd rather have Spoelstra than Nurse (or whomever is Philly's coach then), and 1000% confident that Miami will remain a more attractive FA destination than Philly. Decent chance Riley is gone or useless by then, but he's far from the only reason to believe that Miami will be in a better position moving forward than Philly after these hypothetical trades for Lillard.

For these reasons I'm confident that if Philly were to make Maxey available and put in the work to find a third team for him they'd be a more attractive trade option for Portland, but it sounds like (for whatever reason) they're unwilling to do so. Maybe Philly thinks that because Embiid and Maxey are both in their 20s that they're on the same timeline.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

He will get paid next year (and likely more than Herro), but any trade would include Harris. No problem matching salaries.

I doubt Philly would even consider moving Harris in that deal same as Miami not moving Bam as it creates another massive hole in their frontcourt and in their defensive versatility.

 

[Euclis20]

I doubt Philly would even consider moving Harris in that deal same as Miami not moving Bam as it creates another massive hole in their frontcourt and in their defensive versatility.

It would have to coincide with a move for Harden that brings in some useful role players, or at least one with size. A backcourt of Lillard (33) and Harden (34), even with Embiid behind them, feels very off. The longer Harden goes without being moved (to LAC or wherever) the less likely the whole thing feels.

Lots of moving parts for Philly to make a real play for Lillard, I'm more confused by their reluctance to part with Maxey than I am by their inability to pull off a couple of major moves. On Harris, unless the plan is to let his deal expire and allow them to get a big name FA next summer (Siakam? There's really no one else that even looks like an all-star), it's not the worst idea to package him with Maxey for a real max level player that is looking to move on from their current situation.

 

[ManicCompression]

Maxey has played 3 years to Herro's 4 (more room for improvement on that alone), and he's actually performed in the playoffs: 20.7 ppg with a TS% of .580 in 23 playoff games over the last 2 years. Since his rookie year, Herro has averaged 11.9 ppg in the playoffs, with a TS% of .490. The kindest thing you can say about his playoff performance since the bubble is that he gets hurt a lot, which doesn't exactly help him when compared to Maxey. They're both small guards with defensive issues, but Maxey is definitely longer (6'6 wingspan compared with 6'3 for Herro) and more athletic. The Sixers will still have Embiid (if he hasn't asked out, which is a real possibility if they don't start going deep in the playoffs), but I'm not very bullish on his ability to age well and remain healthy as he hits his mid 30s. I'm 75% sure I'd rather have Bam in 2027 than Embiid, I'm 100% positive that I'd rather have Spoelstra than Nurse (or whomever is Philly's coach then), and 1000% confident that Miami will remain a more attractive FA destination than Philly. Decent chance Riley is gone or useless by then, but he's far from the only reason to believe that Miami will be in a better position moving forward than Philly after these hypothetical trades for Lillard.

For these reasons I'm confident that if Philly were to make Maxey available and put in the work to find a third team for him they'd be a more attractive trade option for Portland, but it sounds like (for whatever reason) they're unwilling to do so. Maybe Philly thinks that because Embiid and Maxey are both in their 20s that they're on the same timeline.

Okay, in either scenario, Herro and Maxey need to be dumped somewhere else for draft equity. I don't believe that either would garner SIGNIFICANTLY more return than the other but let's say Maxey gets 2X whatever Herro gets you in a trade.

The Heat can offer two picks and three swaps, in addition to Jaquez, Jovic, and whatever return for Herro (let's say it's a top ten protected first). So 3P/3S and two young players of some worth.

You're saying that 1 Pick (all that Philly can offer, one of 29 or 30) plus 3 swaps, whatever they can get for Maxey (let's say it's two top ten protected firsts, double what Herro gets), and Tobias Harris is an OBVIOUSLY superior package to the Heat when it's actually pretty much the same offer: 3P/3S and Tobias Harris (who could be traded for two young players of some worth). You could slightly value the Sixers picks more than the Heat b/c of future outlook or whatever, but it's just a slight preference from your POV - it's not some world-shattering offer that the Blazers aren't getting because of Lillard's demands (and it's not guaranteed that Maxey gets 2X Herro, or that Harris has the value of 2023 first round pick Jaquez).

We shouldn't expect Lillard to get a Durant style return or an AD style return or even a Jrue Holiday style return. The demand isn't out there for him, and not just because he said "My preference is to play in Miami."

 

[Tony C]

NOLA worked out well after hanging in there for a while. Klutch, AD & LA flexed their muscle to win the Lakers a Championship.

Bosh & Bron left small market teams in the dust to go to Miami

PDX has to just keep on saying NO until they get all of Miami's draft capital/swaps + recent Firsts OR Bam

FA deals are irrelevant to the point. NO did very well and I guess I just don't see the cases that show L.A. and Miami "steamroll" small market teams regularly in these deals.

 

[chilidawg]

The only thing I ever enjoyed about Mark Jackson was when he'd have to call the Warriors games, reminding everyone how much better the Warriors got when they fired him and hired Kerr. You could just feel him squirming.

 

[TripleOT]

The only thing I ever enjoyed about Mark Jackson was when he'd have to call the Warriors games, reminding everyone how much better the Warriors got when they fired him and hired Kerr. You could just feel him squirming.

The only thing I ever enjoyed about Mark Jackson was when the news of his affair with a sex worker came out, exposing him as a first class hypocrite who’s holier than thou persona got blown to bits. I’m not going to miss him.

 

[128]

View: https://twitter.com/kyleneubeck/status/1686833532063166465?s=42&t=YPSYqT7Jrx61NoosoFctiA

 

[DJnVa]

NBA adjacent

Someone Out There Has To Have The Footage Of High School Prospect Cooper Flagg Supposedly Busting Bradley Beal's Ass Playing 1-on-1 And The Internet Deserves To See It | Barstool Sports

heard a rumor that my boy Cooper Flagg was at Jayson Tatum’s camp and he was busting Brad Beal 1-on-1, and Brad Beal got mad at him. Started cussing him out,” Scalabrine said. “This dude is a major trash-talker. … So I guess the rumor is that Brad Beal and him were squaring off 1-on-1 and Brad Beal was taking it lightly. It’s a high school kid. Then Cooper started giving it to him. And I guess the rumor is, Cooper started talking trash and Bradley Beal got mad. Really mad.”

Also:

 

[tbb345]

Exactly. This is purely about a guy trying to have his extension cake and eat it too.

Also, even though Kawhi wanted LA and eventually got it in FA, he fully performed his contracted services when dealt to Toronto. What Lillard was telling teams he'd do is completely out of bounds.

Lillard is the latest example (and the most surprising considering his reputation) but there have been a few others that have pulled maneuvers like this (or threatened to). Off the top of my head I can think of Durant, Harden, Kyrie and AD.

Side note, but I am really happy that that Brooklyn Nets team ended up being a complete failure. It was a collection of players that I think represented a lot of the things wrong with the current NBA (Harden/Durant/Kyrie is a trio of some of my least favorite players ever. If only they could have got Draymond to play center)

 

[Swedgin]

Lillard is the latest example (and the most surprising considering his reputation) but there have been a few others that have pulled maneuvers like this (or threatened to). Off the top of my head I can think of Durant, Harden, Kyrie and AD.

Side note, but I am really happy that that Brooklyn Nets team ended up being a complete failure. It was a collection of players that I think represented a lot of the things wrong with the current NBA (Harden/Durant/Kyrie is a trio of some of my least favorite players ever. If only they could have got Draymond to play center)

Durant is really the only comp to Dame's demand.

Kyrie demanded a trade out of Brooklyn as a pending free agent. He wanted to get moved because there were few teams with cap space, Brooklyn was not inclined to offer him a long term extension. The trade enabled the acquiring to make use of his Bird rights.

Harden asked out of Houston in the 2020-2021 season. While his deal had a year left, it was a player option.

AD was traded in July 2019. His last season under contract was 2019-2020 (he had a player option for the following year). He told NO he did not intend to resign with them basically a year in advance.

Those are fundamentally different than a guy on a four year deal, demanding a trade to one destination. As others have noted, Dame's tactics represent an existential threat the to the league in a way other trade demands have not.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Coop’s mom said it never happened on Twitter. Kid’s going to be a junior in high school… I think uncool by Scal, even though I know he’s working with him and is a big supporter.

 

[lexrageorge]

Durant is really the only comp to Dame's demand.

Kyrie demanded a trade out of Brooklyn as a pending free agent. He wanted to get moved because there were few teams with cap space, Brooklyn was not inclined to offer him a long term extension. The trade enabled the acquiring to make use of his Bird rights.

Harden asked out of Houston in the 2020-2021 season. While his deal had a year left, it was a player option.

AD was traded in July 2019. His last season under contract was 2019-2020 (he had a player option for the following year). He told NO he did not intend to resign with them basically a year in advance.

Those are fundamentally different than a guy on a four year deal, demanding a trade to one destination. As others have noted, Dame's tactics represent an existential threat the to the league in a way other trade demands have not.

And Durant's trade demand was just a request to be traded to a contender, which is much easier to accommodate and still left the Nets with a fair amount of leverage to extract the best deal. And the Nets were looking to retool anyway once it became clear that Kyrie wanted out and that Simmons was never going to be a useful player for them.

I'm not as dismissive as some about Lillard's trade value; he would be a great deadline pickup that teams would pay a hefty ransom for.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

The union appropriately supports all players, and directionally no doubt supports enhanced player empowerment and choice. But I'll bet privately NBAPA would prefer that Dame not be the 'test case' for whether a player can specify a single team.

1. He's not Durant/LBJ level talent
2. He fairly recently signed a massive long term extension
3. That extension was---more than most---kind of premised implicitly on his loyalty to the city
4. He has not been subtle (at least, his agent hasn't) about the end-game so it lacks even the veneer of openness
5. Asking out of a small market to go to a big one is always tougher for NBA politics (as small markets identify with each other's challenges to a fair degree)

 

[128]

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1687538726556073996?s=46&t=ga9eliGi4-6d86baRxqFiA

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1687551673051361280?s=20

 

[Euclis20]

Is this the Lakers banking on Lebron sticking around after this coming season? I'd want no part of a max deal for Anthony Davis that takes him into his mid 30s, while on a mediocre team. If Lebron goes (or ceases to be an all-star level player), I'd put the average over/under on games played per season on this deal at 35.

 

[snowmanny]

Who is that third guy and who is signing him?

 

[Royal Reader]

Is this the Lakers banking on Lebron sticking around after this coming season? I'd want no part of a max deal for Anthony Davis that takes him into his mid 30s, while on a mediocre team. If Lebron goes (or ceases to be an all-star level player), I'd put the average over/under on games played per season on this deal at 35.

Eh, he's probably still a positive asset maxed out on a mediocre team. See if you can pull off Laker BS and get someone else good to play with him. If not, someone who's got a decent team with a ceiling will dream on keeping him healthy for a playoff run or two.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Eh, he's probably still a positive asset maxed out on a mediocre team. See if you can pull off Laker BS and get someone else good to play with him. If not, someone who's got a decent team with a ceiling will dream on keeping him healthy for a playoff run or two.

These are Jayson Tatum's last five years games played: 74, 76, 64, 66, 79
These are Anthony Davis's: 56, 40, 36, 62, 56

Those were AD's age 25-29 years. Doubt he gets more durable in his mid 30s.

 

[Royal Reader]

These are Jayson Tatum's last five years games played: 74, 76, 64, 66, 79
These are Anthony Davis's: 56, 40, 36, 62, 56

Those were AD's age 25-29 years. Doubt he gets more durable in his mid 30s.

I don't think so either. But the Nets signed KD when they knew he'd miss the entire following year. The Suns gave up (slightly) positive value for the Beal contract. Zion Williamson got a max extension. People will pony up for elite talent in the hope they might get one healthy playoffs from them.

If Bron retires, there will still be teams that have one star and can't get free agents. Imagine I'm, say, the Mavs (who aren't even one of the FA no go zones). Kyrie has shot his way out of town again. I need to gamble on getting some elite talent next to Luka, who's getting antsy. I think I'd be willing to pony up at least one pick and a useful role player.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I don't think so either. But the Nets signed KD when they knew he'd miss the entire following year. The Suns gave up (slightly) positive value for the Beal contract. Zion Williamson got a max extension. People will pony up for elite talent in the hope they might get one healthy playoffs from them.

If Bron retires, there will still be teams that have one star and can't get free agents. Imagine I'm, say, the Mavs (who aren't even one of the FA no go zones). Kyrie has shot his way out of town again. I need to gamble on getting some elite talent next to Luka, who's getting antsy. I think I'd be willing to pony up at least one pick and a useful role player.

Yeah that's fair. Still seems like an albatross, but sometimes you need to take a chance on upside.

 

[lovegtm]

Yeah that's fair. Still seems like an albatross, but sometimes you need to take a chance on upside.

It seems like an albatross, but it's pretty +EV. If he's "just banged up", someone will trade for him. If his body goes Boogie Cousins, then yeah, it's over.

 

[benhogan]

These are Jayson Tatum's last five years games played: 74, 76, 64, 66, 79
These are Anthony Davis's: 56, 40, 36, 62, 56

Those were AD's age 25-29 years. Doubt he gets more durable in his mid 30s.

I agree with you & don't see him aging well either, but this is standard operating procedure in the NBA. Klutch/Bron write up the AD extension & send it to Rob/Jeanie to sign. Extending & pretending players with tons of mileage, not named Bron, should be glorious. It certainly feels like NBA caps are going to infinity & beyond, so all extensions are good for past All-Stars.

It's nice having Brad/Zarren at the controls, they keep on exploiting teams going through rebuilds. There will always be an NBA carcass to pick from.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Old friend RJ Hunter trying to make it back in the NBA and signs a non-guaranteed one-year deal with CHA. He last played for the Sydney Kings in 2022 and ruptured his patella tendon.

I guess before that he played for Galatasaray in Turkey in 20-21, where he averaged nine points per game on 35% shooting from beyond the arc in 15 games and played with Amile Jefferson. Prior to that, he was with Türk Telekom of the Turkish Basketball Super League from June 2019 to January 2020.

Good luck to him.

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2023/08/06/boston-celtics-first-round-pick-comeback/

 

[Swedgin]

etroit - Potentially, but they're not trading Cade or Thompson - is Ivey/Duren really better than the Heat package? And are they willing to do that for what might be one of the 3-4 worst teams in the league this year

Detroit actually makes a lot of sense as a trade partner for Portland. While I would not do it if I am were running Detroit, I think Weaver would. They have been awful for 4 years in a row. The lottery was a huge disappointment for them. I am sure Weaver feels pressure to win now and to make a splash. Put on some rose-colored glasses and Cade's play for the Select Team, portends a leap to All Star level play, Ivey makes the usual second year jump... pair the two of them with Dame, Duran, Beef Stew, the shooting of Bojan and if you squint you can see a playoff team.

Detroit has the matching salary in Harris, Hayes and Wiseman. Amen Thompson and picks has a lot of upside for Portland. Would you rather bet against Miami or Detroit long term? Given my own feelings about Weaver's approach to team building, I know which bet I would make.