General Playoff Thread: The Long 2nd Season
- Thread starter ElUno20
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Ebay will cost you 14% in fees, not sure on the other sites. You could actually try Craigslist and Paypal, which will only cost you 4%, but you won't get the eyeballs you would elsewhere. Are your tickets electronic?
I'm talking about the Cavaliers. I believe this is the closest (one game) they have ever been to a championship in their history. Forty six long years and they finally get a shot - I'm happy for their fans right now
I've come all the way around to now hoping that Lebron has the greatest Finals game in NBA history to win it for Cleveland and then stars in reboots of all of my favorite childhood films. Is it too late to write Will Smith's character back into the next Independence Day and replace him with Lebron?
And there hasn't been a competitive game in the final few minutes of the 4th Quarter yet. Weird series. Kind of like Spurs/Pistons from 05, although that series did have a dramatic Game 5.
Really is amazing how morons on Twitter can't help themselves. GJGE, Ayesha.
The last time Steph Curry fouled out of a game was December 13, 2013. Until this evening, he had never fouled out of a playoff game over the past three seasons.
I understand why some folks will call this sour grapes and I generally think the NBA officiating is fair but the last two playoff series that GS has been involved in feel funny.
First, Green does not get suspended with the Warriors down 3-2 for what most here thought was a dirty play (he probably should have been). Then he gets a retroactive flagrant/suspension with the Cavs down 3-1 (suspect). Now Steph Curry fouls out for the first time in 18 months and the first time in the playoffs ever with Golden State up 3-2. I am not saying that anything underhanded happened here but those facts - and all I am doing is stating facts - look a bit suspicious.
Finally, I know some people pointed out that the sixth foul was largely meaningless because the Warriors weren't likely to come back. However the accumulation of the first five changed how Curry played the game. I will be the first to admit he isn't a good defender but he has worked to become, at least, average. However when a player gets in foul trouble, they have to sag a bit regardless of their defensive prowess.
In any event, hats off to LeBron. As I said, he is my GOAT and he has proved over the last few games that those who doubted him because of a few game sample size look foolish. In the end, his performance was the difference maker.
If Iguodala doesn't heal fast, Believeland is going to get its first trophy in a long time. And its all because of LeBron.
I understand why some folks will call this sour grapes and I generally think the NBA officiating is fair but the last two playoff series that GS has been involved in feel funny.
First, Green does not get suspended with the Warriors down 3-2 for what most here thought was a dirty play (he probably should have been). Then he gets a retroactive flagrant/suspension with the Cavs down 3-1 (suspect). Now Steph Curry fouls out for the first time in 18 months and the first time in the playoffs ever with Golden State up 3-2. I am not saying that anything underhanded happened here but those facts - and all I am doing is stating facts - look a bit suspicious.
Finally, I know some people pointed out that the sixth foul was largely meaningless because the Warriors weren't likely to come back. However the accumulation of the first five changed how Curry played the game. I will be the first to admit he isn't a good defender but he has worked to become, at least, average. However when a player gets in foul trouble, they have to sag a bit regardless of their defensive prowess.
In any event, hats off to LeBron. As I said, he is my GOAT and he has proved over the last few games that those who doubted him because of a few game sample size look foolish. In the end, his performance was the difference maker.
If Iguodala doesn't heal fast, Believeland is going to get its first trophy in a long time. And its all because of LeBron.
The fact that he's never fouled out before, or even had 5 fouls this year, proves she's right.
Clearly the league is rigged in curry's favor
One more amazing thing about LBJ - given the way he plays - is how durable he has been. This series has been extremely physical - and guys are dropping - but LBJ just keeps racking up the minutes and producing. We are fortunate to be able to watch him.
You're too funny. The league has long officiated in favor of star teams and players. In other news, the sky is blue. Now you want to criticize a system that has favored your team way more often than not.
The fact that curry has never fouled out and green didn't suspended when he should have proves how GS has benefited, not the other way around
I think what has Curry so frustrated is that the Cavs are totally mugging him off the ball. Just about every time he runs off a screen he's being shoved and grabbed. So when they start calling borderline fouls on him (and of the 6 he took tonight, at least 2-3 were iffy), he gets upset, even though there's generally a big difference between how tightly the refs call on-ball vs. off-ball contact.
And Kerr does what I wanted him to do. He strongly criticized the officiating in his press conference.
Perhaps all the flopping he does when he shoots affects this?
The refs have let both sides play physical for most of this series, and it's benefited GS more than Cleveland
I was deliberately pointing out the lack of suspension to Green to be fair to both sides - that league officiating/rulings have benefitted the Warriors as well as hurt them. I flat out disagree with you that the officiating has favored Curry re fouls. The guy is a jump shooter who plays mostly at the arc and generally defends weaker offensive players. He doesn't accumulate fouls because he isn't asked to play scorers. Its as simple as that and the large sample size of no-foul-outs doesn't suggest anything more than that. If you want to suggest he gets beneficial calls on the offensive end, we may have something to discuss.
Finally, I know someone will bring up the ESPN TV deal which runs for quite a few more years but that is a silly rebuttal to the idea that the league would favor a longer series. Based on last year, if extra playoff games are played, the network broadcasting the games (aka a valued partner of the league) would reap more money from advertisers (aka other valuled partners of the league). In the case of a game seven last season, the number would have been around $45mm. Its likely worth more this year.
To be clear, I am not saying the officials conspired against the Warriors this game nor am I suggesting that their actions decided the outcome of this game. But its clear the league has incentives to have a long series for their business partners and from a branding perspective. That should be beyond debate.
It's funny, if folks go back and read through this thread, they'll see that I've been saying since Game 1 that the refs had basically swallowed their whistles, by comparison to how regular season NBA games are called. And in doing so, it gave a huge advantage to Golden State because so much of Cleveland's offense is predicated on taking the ball to the hoop, drawing contact and going to the line. For 5 games, Golden State was allowed to bump, swipe and slap at the ball every time a Cleveland player went up for a shot near the rim. I still don't think they've called a single foul in this series to the body of a shooter around the rim. Not one. Lebron averages something like 8.3 free throw attempts per game in the regular season for his career, and he couldn't sniff the foul line in the first few games of the series.
Tonight, for the first time, I thought the refs made some of the calls that they hadn't been making earlier in the series, and Cleveland took advantage. Maybe the sixth call was weak, but the hand checking and bumping that Curry was doing immediately before he reached in was a foul all year long in the NBA. IMO, they should have called that, and not the reach that they ended up calling. On top of that, Curry has to know better than to be reaching in with 5 fouls anyway. Shit, he was playing that entire fourth quarter extremely aggressively, almost daring the refs to call the fifth and sixth fouls on him. He was trying to fight through screens, throw picks, reach in and block shots as if he thought there was no way he'd ever foul out of a game (and considering he basically never has, why not, I guess).
The first two fouls on Curry were both legit, and he could have had a third earlier than he did that they called on Livingston instead of him. The refs calling fouls on Curry were not why Golden State was down 20 points after one quarter. And I''m sure if folks go back and watch closely, they'll find more than a couple other fouls that could have easily been called, given the way he was playing. People can think what they want to, but at the end of the day, the team that showed up, and deserved to win tonight, won the game. The refs in the NBA suck. They suck real bad. In Game 7, I fully expect that they swallow their whistles once again, and Golden State will benefit from it. They'll get away with slapping at the ball every time Lebron goes to the hoop, and maybe even get him confused enough to turn the ball over, like they did quite a bit in games 1 and 2. And the people complaining about poor Steph fouling out tonight won't notice a thing when it happens. As long as the team that deserves it more wins in the end, I'll be happy either way. I'm just hoping it's a good, competitive ball game, because it has the potential, and will have the hype leading up to it, to be an instant classic and one of the all time greatest games.
Tonight, for the first time, I thought the refs made some of the calls that they hadn't been making earlier in the series, and Cleveland took advantage. Maybe the sixth call was weak, but the hand checking and bumping that Curry was doing immediately before he reached in was a foul all year long in the NBA. IMO, they should have called that, and not the reach that they ended up calling. On top of that, Curry has to know better than to be reaching in with 5 fouls anyway. Shit, he was playing that entire fourth quarter extremely aggressively, almost daring the refs to call the fifth and sixth fouls on him. He was trying to fight through screens, throw picks, reach in and block shots as if he thought there was no way he'd ever foul out of a game (and considering he basically never has, why not, I guess).
The first two fouls on Curry were both legit, and he could have had a third earlier than he did that they called on Livingston instead of him. The refs calling fouls on Curry were not why Golden State was down 20 points after one quarter. And I''m sure if folks go back and watch closely, they'll find more than a couple other fouls that could have easily been called, given the way he was playing. People can think what they want to, but at the end of the day, the team that showed up, and deserved to win tonight, won the game. The refs in the NBA suck. They suck real bad. In Game 7, I fully expect that they swallow their whistles once again, and Golden State will benefit from it. They'll get away with slapping at the ball every time Lebron goes to the hoop, and maybe even get him confused enough to turn the ball over, like they did quite a bit in games 1 and 2. And the people complaining about poor Steph fouling out tonight won't notice a thing when it happens. As long as the team that deserves it more wins in the end, I'll be happy either way. I'm just hoping it's a good, competitive ball game, because it has the potential, and will have the hype leading up to it, to be an instant classic and one of the all time greatest games.
Yes, currys style of play is a big factor in why he's never fouled out before tonight. That's true. His star status is another factor. This league has a long history of not fouling out stars.
And yes, the league clearly wanted a 7th game. I noted this when Green was suspended. The difference between you and me is that I noted this in the last series, too, when Green wasn't suspended and should have been. It was clear then that the league wanted that series to go 7, and ideally for GS to win. They got their wish.
Thus, I don't think it's fair to criticize the same league that, in some ways, has allowed GS to be here in the 1st place unless you were also criticizing it then, too.
Given the reaction to Draymond's kick, I thought the lack of a Green suspension then was suspect last round too but tonight's game raised my suspicion about the league's motives. And I do not say that lightly given that conspiracies are typically a bunch of garbage predicated on lots of people keeping their mouths shut when there are plenty of incentives for them to do otherwise.
At the end of the day, though, I have to hand it to LeBron. He, and not the officials, was the key difference maker in this game. I agree with anyone who says he is the best basketball player on the planet right now. I am in awe of what this guy does, especially given the stakes and those who criticize him need to look at what surrounds him. He is literally taking a team that might otherwise get bounced out of the first round of the playoffs (or may not even make the playoffs) to game seven of the NBA finals. Its remarkable.
Robert Horry was basically the opposite of Harrison Barnes.
And I remember that whole series well, b/c of a futures bet (something like 12:1) I had picked up on Detroit when they were struggling early that year...
Thought Moore had a good point here:
Basically the refs called it tight and most players adjusted, Curry kept taking gambles, reaching in etc because he didn't think they'd foul him out.
The officiating wasn't great, but it also wasn't terrible and certainly not biased. The two worst calls of the game I thought actually both went against CLE (Love's 3rd and the no contact reach in on Shumpert). There is no conspiracy, the Cavs outplayed the Warriors, and the Warriors lost their composure, Curry in particular. Now part of it was that he's been struggling on offense and CLE made a point of isolating him on defense where they know he can't guard Irving or the big man on the switch. The other part was just him continually making bad decisions and pointless risks.
Basically the refs called it tight and most players adjusted, Curry kept taking gambles, reaching in etc because he didn't think they'd foul him out.
The officiating wasn't great, but it also wasn't terrible and certainly not biased. The two worst calls of the game I thought actually both went against CLE (Love's 3rd and the no contact reach in on Shumpert). There is no conspiracy, the Cavs outplayed the Warriors, and the Warriors lost their composure, Curry in particular. Now part of it was that he's been struggling on offense and CLE made a point of isolating him on defense where they know he can't guard Irving or the big man on the switch. The other part was just him continually making bad decisions and pointless risks.
A shout-out to you all for a great discussion. I read this thread rather than anything on ESPN or Yahoo. Great insight and analysis, with the proper amount of back-and-forth. Good stuff.
You claim things are "suspicious" and "funny", which are vague and worthless words, but strongly imply the refs are in the tank for Cleveland. You almost say it. But because because you know how stupid you sound when you say that, you also say, "to be clear, I am not saying the officials conspired against the Warriors."
Yet, to be clear, you are saying the officials conspired against the Warriors. You just are pretending you're not. As it is with all conspiracy theories, yours is nonsense. If the NBA went around trying to steer refs in the direction they preferred, it would nearly end the league.
On a sort of side note, has there every been a "best player in the league" (or top two or three) who has such swings between upside and downside (I mean Curry)? Some games we talk about him in the context of how he is so amazing that he's changed how basketball is played, and then a game or two later he is actively hurting his team with long stretches of terrible play. It's not just the dumb fouls, either. The forcing of passes in traffic, the uninterested defense, the inability to help his team in little ways when he is not able to contribute offensively the way he normally does. Obviously there's a team dynamic at work, but I always compare Curry to Klay Thompson in-game - Thompson will go cold and miss shots, but he normally doesn't do any of those other things and always plays great defense.
I am not saying the officials conspired against the Warriors. I never posted that. Once again, I refer you to the ignore feature on this site.
If you don't like being called on your nonsense, don't post nonsense. Ignore won't change the fact that you're tying yourself into knots to claim ref impartiality while decrying how the refs are in the tank for Cleveland and how that is suspicious and funny. You seem to be incapable of looking at this rationally. I don't see how the ignore feature will help.
Your trolling (and lets be clear here - you view this as your job/persona on this site - I mean, how often do you post in this forum during the regular season except to attack others? ) wont work here.
LeBron was brilliant. The Warriors played badly. This is why the series is now tied. I pointed out that Curry accumulating six fouls for the first time since December of 2013 looked suspicious to me. Your results may vary.
My job and persona is the furthest thing from troll. But that's just more nonsense from you. What an odd statement. And who am I attacking?
If the league wanted a longer series so bad, why didn't the Cavs get all the calls at home in Game 4 to help them avoid going down 3-1? The 6th foul on Curry was iffy. I'll have to go back and re-watch the 2nd one. All the others were legit. Star players rarely foul out, but when they do it doesn't mean the league is rigged for fucks sake.
Bigger story for me here is how Golden State's top 2 players have lost their shit in the Finals. Cavs have undoubtedly been the more mentally tough team, which Isn't something I think anyone would have expected coming into the series.
Bigger story for me here is how Golden State's top 2 players have lost their shit in the Finals. Cavs have undoubtedly been the more mentally tough team, which Isn't something I think anyone would have expected coming into the series.
You keep posting that it was "funny" and "suspicious". You're trying to imply something without saying it. Just because something "looks" like something doesn't mean it is.