The metrics we have that recognize Smarf's value (PIPM, DWS) run counter to your take but I will grant you that Brown especially has the skillset to be a more efficient scorer than Smarf and a very good defender. Hayward is what he is and while he is clearly a better offensive player than Smarf, there is no way he has Marcus' versatility or impact on the defensive end.I think Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are both better two players at the moment. Nothing against Smart, I'm glad he's doing what he's doing and is certainly contributing a lot. But, I think those two are more valuable to the team.
His foot was on the line for the other one. Sacto announcers caught it in the moment.I guess Smart was due for a really crappy shooting game: 2 for 16, and 1 for 8 from three (though I could've sworn he hit two three pointers).
Direct comparisons are hard because the value Smart brings is so different from the others.The metrics we have that recognize Smarf's value (PIPM, DWS) run counter to your take but I will grant you that Brown especially has the skillset to be a more efficient scorer than Smarf and a very good defender. Hayward is what he is and while he is clearly a better offensive player than Smarf, there is no way he has Marcus' versatility or impact on the defensive end.
In short, I am ascribing a lot of value to Smart's defense, hustle and IQ/field general skills in discussing who is the best all around player. That said, measuring those things is tough at best so its entirely possible that I am overrating Smart's value there.
Right—the premium/rare skill in the NBA is offensive mismatch creation. This is why you’d probably prefer peak Steph to peak PG13, even though the latter seems better “all-around” when you factor in the defensive end.Direct comparisons are hard because the value Smart brings is so different from the others.
Succinctly put.Right—the premium/rare skill in the NBA is offensive mismatch creation. This is why you’d probably prefer peak Steph to peak PG13, even though the latter seems better “all-around” when you factor in the defensive end.
At the same time, elite complementary guys matter: you’d probably rather have peak Steph+peak Draymond than 2 peak Stephs.*
Marcus Smart with shooting is an elite complementary player, and those are worth way more than $12M/year.
Agree with both of you guys on this line of conversation, but just wanted to remind you that Dragan Bender isn't in Phoenix anymore.It also gives me a chance to beat the drum for a certain Phoenix Sun big man.
At the risk of compunding the drive-by offense, clearly I should have made an Ayton joke instead.Agree with both of you guys on this line of conversation, but just wanted to remind you that Dragan Bender isn't in Phoenix anymore.
It’s always funny to watch the national media’s 3-4 week narrative lag. Lowe is an attentive trend-setter, and it felt like after he wrote his 10 things column about the Celtics, it was suddenly cool to take them seriously. Everyone seeing them basically outplay the title favorites on national TV then locked that in, and now the team needs to stop sniffing its own farts.Zach Lowe and Doris Burke discussed (raved about really) Marcus on the most recent Lowe Post Podcast. Lowe said he has never been more wrong about a player than Smart. He goes on to say he used to think everything Smart can do wouldn't matter if he couldn't shoot, he said that was wrong, he's so good he doesn't need to shoot. They both also mentioned him as a DPOY candidate. They cover lots of good Celtics topics as well.
And Zach Lowe's guest on an upcoming episode....Marcus Smart.
Loved it. His explanation for how he tries to get under AD makes all the sense in the world, but his confidence is insanely high.Apologies if it’s in another thread, nice Smart article in the Players’ Tribune:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/marcus-smart-celtics-5-toughest
The most interesting things are:
1. He legitimately thinks that he’s an option to cover Anthony Davis and goes into detail how he tries to do it.
2. Brad Stevens thinks that, statistically, big men have a lot of trouble with guard pressure.
What are the odds Team LeBron read that article and looked up his numbers relative to the guys on that list?Apologies if it’s in another thread, nice Smart article in the Players’ Tribune:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/marcus-smart-celtics-5-toughest
The most interesting things are:
1. He legitimately thinks that he’s an option to cover Anthony Davis and goes into detail how he tries to do it.
2. Brad Stevens thinks that, statistically, big men have a lot of trouble with guard pressure.
I'm pretty sure its Scal.The people who do the chyron for NBC Sports Boston are legendary.
Interesting. I would have guessed that its a junior employee who is pretty dialed in to WCT. "Love and trust" is a saying amongst that community this season.I'm pretty sure its Scal.
It's that dude Max Lederman from Weird Celtics Twitter, I believe.Interesting. I would have guessed that its a junior employee who is pretty dialed in to WCT. "Love and trust" is a saying amongst that community this season.
View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1209875423779315713?s=20
Pretty scary stuff. Glad that it sounds like the worst is over.
The first day was probably the worst, just because it built up so much that it started to scab under my eyelids, and they had to open the scab and then pull it out. It felt like they were putting needles in my eyes.
This deserves more love.Now he's gonna come back as a dead-eye shooter.
Yeah, a lot of his decision-making seems to be from a prior era of the team. Even last year, the spacing and overall lower offensive environment required him to take those shots to make the ecosystem work. Now they have at least 2 of the 4 shot creators on the floor at most times, and the offense is elite overall, so that moderately contested 3-pointer with 14 seconds left isn't as good an outcome.I wish he could show more discipline in his offense. I'd love for Brad to sit him down and say "Look, if you get a wide open 3 on a catch and shoot - take it - but don't shoot contested 3's and don't shoot 4 feet from behind the arc". He brings ALOT to the table with his defense, and also his passing. Unfortunately, sometimes I think he is a negative on the offensive side. With the weapons this team has, Marcus should be the 4th or 5th option to shoot just about whenever he is on the floor.
CBS was trying to speed up that adjustment period in yesterday's gameWhen last Smart was playing, before the eye injury, Hayward had been out for a while and Smart's usage was ticking up as a result. This is the first time since very early in the season that the team has had all 5 top guys available. There is going to have to be an adjustment period.
OTOH -- Outside of Kanter, he might be their best post-up option (non turnaround fadeaway division).Yeah, I remember some games from maybe a month ago or so - can't recall, where it seemed like the team really needed Smart to take some shots - he was driving and taking floaters in the lane (cringe worthy from my perspective - but he did hit at least some of them). I don't really want to see him driving much at this point - there are better people on the team to do that.
yep, makes all the sense in the world. The Celtics Big4 (JT, Kemba, JB, GH) are all efficient offensive players, you want a defense-first/role player on the floor with them like Theis or Smart that defer to those 4 on offense.The three wings and Kemba average 80 ppg combined. Smart should only be pushing his offense when wide open, and when they want to punish a smaller cover in the post. They don't need him to score much at all.
Still confident?I'm feeling pretty good about my 40% from deep prediction earlier in this thread. When he is taking a balanced shot, he is a legitimate good shooter.
Maybe not 40, but i still think he finishes between 36-38.Still confident?
Marcus has to get back to last seasons 4 3PA/gm and be much more selective to be a 36% shooter IMO.Maybe not 40, but i still think he finishes between 36-38.
He definitely has to be more selective, once the whole team is actually healthy and playing together I'm reasonably confident he will do so.Marcus has to get back to last seasons 4 3PA/gm and be much more selective to be a 36% shooter IMO.
What time frame are you using to evaluate him?I honestly don't know what to think going forward. I just know when he's hitting 35% of his threes, everyone loves him. When he's shooting under 30%, he becomes pretty divisive.
The bar isn't very high. I'd settle for 33%.