Gillislee is a Patriot

H78

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People really felt like Lewis lacked burst last year? I thought he looked like a freakin' Madden player when he was on the field.
 

Royal Reader

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But the opportunity cost for the Bills and Patriots is different. The Pats have cap space, less money already committed to the position, fewer picks near the top of the draft, a realistic shot at contending this year.

In the same way it could be worth it for the Texans to take a sliding QB rather than, say, a package of picks from the Niners, but not at all worth it for Oakland or Seattle either side of them.
 

JohnnyK

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Now there may be another provision somewhere in the CBA that precludes a club from restructuring a contract very quickly after its formation to include worse terms. I'm not sure, but I think I've heard that. In that case, they'd probably need to add new value somehow but that could be done in a way that gives cap relief I think.
I read yesterday that such a contract cannot be restructured for a year, but even after half an hour of searching I cannot find the source again.
Maybe @Otto can shed some light on this?
 

BaseballJones

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I know it's been said, but my goodness, if Gillislee ends up coming to the Pats, this will be as loaded a skill position group the Patriots have ever had:

QB - Brady and JG, who absolutely is starter material in the NFL, plus a useful 3rd QB in Brissett
RB - Gillislee, Burkhead, White, Lewis, Foster, Bolden, Develin
WR - Edelman, Hogan, Cooks, Amendola, Mitchell, Floyd, Lucien, Slater
TE - Gronkowski, Allen, Lengel, Housler

Obviously they cannot keep ALL those guys. I think Lucien and Floyd likely go. JG still could be traded. Don't know if Housler sticks. And one or two of the RBs (probably Foster/Bolden) probably go. But my goodness there is skill position talent oozing out of Foxboro right now. If the OL can play up to its capabilities, this offense could score 40+ a game, especially given that they actually have a really good defense too.

I love that they're not just tremendously skilled; they're DEEP. So that roster right there could suffer injuries to any number of quality players, and there'd STILL be quality players to step in. Gillislee goes down? Ok, there's Burkhead. He goes down? Ok, there's still White and Lewis. Gronk goes down? Ok, we've seen they can win without him as long as they have a good TE backing him up, which they do in Allen. Edelman and Hogan can't go? Ok, Cooks and Amendola and Mitchell step up. Heck, even if Brady went down, with this group, I think JG could get them to the AFCCG at least.
 

JohnnyK

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Minor correction: Floyd is gone at the moment as he is a free-agent.
I do agree with your overall point though, but it's gonna be quite a roster crunch when they need to get down to 53 players.
 

BaseballJones

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Minor correction: Floyd is gone at the moment as he is a free-agent.
I do agree with your overall point though, but it's gonna be quite a roster crunch when they need to get down to 53 players.
Yeah for some reason I was thinking that they had some sort of option on him and still technically had him under their control. Thanks for the correction.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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TDs are counted as first downs, I believe
My knowledge of this may be out of date, but it used to be a TD counted as a first down if it wasn't an "and goal" situation. So a TD run from the 4 yard line would also be a first down if it was on "2nd and 3" for instance. But a TD run from the 4 wouldn't be a first down if it was "2nd and goal". I don't know if that's changed.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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People really felt like Lewis lacked burst last year? I thought he looked like a freakin' Madden player when he was on the field.
He looked significantly less mobile than White to me - I figured the knee still wasn't back all the way.
 

tims4wins

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Lewis still showed some flashes. In particular he had a run against Atlanta on the first TD drive where he bounced outside, even backtracked a bit, and flat out beat the CB to the edge
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Lewis still showed some flashes. In particular he had a run against Atlanta on the first TD drive where he bounced outside, even backtracked a bit, and flat out beat the CB to the edge
I agree. Also, can we assume that signing Gillislee has little to do with Lewis? Burkhead's contract only runs for 2017. BB would need all four + a draft RB when camp starts.
 

pappymojo

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Building on BaseballJones' post, I added age and minor contract details.

QB
Brady (39 years old - under contract through 2019)
Jimmy Garoppolo (25 years old - under contract through 2017)
Jacoby Brissett (24 years old - under contract through 2019)

RB
Mike Gillislee (26 years old - offered contract runs through 2018)
Rex Burkhead (26 years old - under contract through 2017)
James White (25 years old - under contract through 2020)
Dion Lewis (26 years old - under contract through 2017)
DJ Foster (23 years old - under contract through 2018)
Brandon Bolden (27 years old - under contract through 2017)
James Develin (28 years old - under contract through 2018)

WR
Julian Edelman (30 years old - under contract through 2017)
Brandin Cooks (23 years old - under contract through 2018)
Chris Hogan (28 years old - under contract through 2018)
Danny Amendola (31 years old - under contract through 2017)
Malcolm Mitchell (23 years old - under contract through 2019)
Devin Lucien (23 years old - under contract through 2017)
Matthew Slater (31 years old - under contract through 2017)

TE
Rob Gronkowski (27 years old - under contract through 2019)
Dwayne Allen (27 years old - under contract through 2019)
Matt Lengel (26 years old - under contract through 2017)
Rob Housler (29 years old - under contract through 2017)
 

H78

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Wow, I hadn't realized this was already a contract year for Jules. At his age and given his position, it may be his last season in a Pats uniform, no?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I read yesterday that such a contract cannot be restructured for a year, but even after half an hour of searching I cannot find the source again.
Maybe @Otto can shed some light on this?
I'm fairly sure this is true for franchised players, so maybe it's also the same for RFAs.

I can definitely see reasons why the original club shouldn't be able to exercise a ROFR and then restructure. You could imagine shenanigans. Especially since I think the rule is designed, or at least can be used, to allow offering teams to take into account the opponents' salary cap in structuring the offer. On the other side, there are even more grounds for shenanigans. For example, offering the guy a contract that hammers a team on salary cap to make it hard to match but then restructuring for cap relief. Though, I guess there's a limit to what you can do there since just signing the offer immediately puts the money on your cap. Still, the bottom line, is that I bet you're right there's a rule, I just can't find it.
 

singaporesoxfan

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My knowledge of this may be out of date, but it used to be a TD counted as a first down if it wasn't an "and goal" situation. So a TD run from the 4 yard line would also be a first down if it was on "2nd and 3" for instance. But a TD run from the 4 wouldn't be a first down if it was "2nd and goal". I don't know if that's changed.
Not sure what it was in the past, but all passing/rushing TDs are counted as first downs now:

A first down shall be credited on each touchdown resulting from rushes or forward passes, regardless of the distance covered.
(See page 7 of the NFL guide for statisticians)
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I know it's been said, but my goodness, if Gillislee ends up coming to the Pats, this will be as loaded a skill position group the Patriots have ever had:

QB - Brady and JG, who absolutely is starter material in the NFL, plus a useful 3rd QB in Brissett
RB - Gillislee, Burkhead, White, Lewis, Foster, Bolden, Develin
WR - Edelman, Hogan, Cooks, Amendola, Mitchell, Floyd, Lucien, Slater
TE - Gronkowski, Allen, Lengel, Housler

Obviously they cannot keep ALL those guys. I think Lucien and Floyd likely go. JG still could be traded. Don't know if Housler sticks. And one or two of the RBs (probably Foster/Bolden) probably go. But my goodness there is skill position talent oozing out of Foxboro right now. If the OL can play up to its capabilities, this offense could score 40+ a game, especially given that they actually have a really good defense too.

I love that they're not just tremendously skilled; they're DEEP. So that roster right there could suffer injuries to any number of quality players, and there'd STILL be quality players to step in. Gillislee goes down? Ok, there's Burkhead. He goes down? Ok, there's still White and Lewis. Gronk goes down? Ok, we've seen they can win without him as long as they have a good TE backing him up, which they do in Allen. Edelman and Hogan can't go? Ok, Cooks and Amendola and Mitchell step up. Heck, even if Brady went down, with this group, I think JG could get them to the AFCCG at least.
They just resigned Bolden last week, they're not releasing him. And he's as much of a RB as Slater is a WR.
 

bradmahn

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They just resigned Bolden last week, they're not releasing him. And he's as much of a RB as Slater is a WR.
Bolden did sign for a one year deal with just $50k guaranteed. I wouldn't venture out on any limbs regarding his prospects of making the team.
 

Otto

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I'm fairly sure this is true for franchised players, so maybe it's also the same for RFAs.

I can definitely see reasons why the original club shouldn't be able to exercise a ROFR and then restructure. You could imagine shenanigans. Especially since I think the rule is designed, or at least can be used, to allow offering teams to take into account the opponents' salary cap in structuring the offer. On the other side, there are even more grounds for shenanigans. For example, offering the guy a contract that hammers a team on salary cap to make it hard to match but then restructuring for cap relief. Though, I guess there's a limit to what you can do there since just signing the offer immediately puts the money on your cap. Still, the bottom line, is that I bet you're right there's a rule, I just can't find it.
Of course, I can't resist a CBA question.

The player has no incentive to renegotiate with his original club if they match, because Article 13 of the CBA says that, even though the the first renegotiation of a Veteran Player Contract may take place at any time, the contract of a Veteran Player may not be renegotiated to increase the Salary to be paid to the player during the original terms of the contract for a period of twelve months after the player's most recent contract renegotiation. So the guy that tried to leave via an offer sheet that his club matched can’t renegotiate for more salary – so he’s staying on the matched offer.

On the other hand, there is a rule that says, when the offer isn’t matched, the New Club can’t renegotiate at all: “The player and the New Club may not renegotiate such Player Contract to reduce the Salary in such contract until after the end of the first regular season covered by the Contract. Neither the player nor the New Club may exercise an option in such Player Contract that reduces Salary in the first League Year of such contract until after the end of the first regular season covered by the Contract.”
 

dcmissle

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What's the word up in Buffalo.

Here in DC, on a lazy Sunday, sports talk radio jock, who had spent years in Buffalo before coming here a few years ago, clowned on the Bills for grand theft for the Hogan signing, and now this.

Do they react emotionally?
 

Stitch01

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I get that the Hogan narrative is a thing, but it would be pretty terrible of the Bills to let it effect their judgment and I think the swindling is being overblown by the media. Hogan is a nice piece, but complimentary deep threat WR plays better in an elite offense QBd by GOAT than he did in Buffalo isn't exactly man bites dog stuff, this wasnt exactly Ortiz to the Sox.
 

Manuel Aristides

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Wow, I hadn't realized this was already a contract year for Jules. At his age and given his position, it may be his last season in a Pats uniform, no?
I mean, sure, maybe, but everything Edelman has done/said make me think he'll do whatever he can to stay with Brady, including a team friendly deal. It doesn't seem like an act to me, the amount he loves playing with TB12.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I get that the Hogan narrative is a thing, but it would be pretty terrible of the Bills to let it effect their judgment and I think the swindling is being overblown by the media. Hogan is a nice piece, but complimentary deep threat WR plays better in an elite offense QBd by GOAT than he did in Buffalo isn't exactly man bites dog stuff, this wasnt exactly Ortiz to the Sox.
Agreed, and beyond that what I think any competent football exec would say to Pegulas is that they need to focus on getting the right roster, not the media narratives about Belichick. This decision has nothing to do with Hogan, and their team is at a very different place in the growth/competition curve than the Pats, and their roster (and RB depth chart) are completely different as well.

Of course, whether a) the Bills have such a person to tell them that reality and b) the Pegulas are rational actors and listen to that person are all unknowns...
 

H78

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I mean, sure, maybe, but everything Edelman has done/said make me think he'll do whatever he can to stay with Brady, including a team friendly deal. It doesn't seem like an act to me, the amount he loves playing with TB12.
I'm not sure. If a slot receiver can get another big deal elsewhere at 32, which would almost certainly be the last big payday of his life, something tells me bromance may find its way to the back-burner.

You know BB isn't going to throw like 3/15 at Jules at 32. If another team did, do you honestly think he'd stay and take like a one-year deal so he can play water flip-cup with Brady in the locker room? I don't think so. It'll be Wes 2.0.
 

RG33

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The fairly obvious smart decision here is for the Bills to let Gillislee walk. There is no need to be paying your top two RBs $12million in 2017.

I fully expect Buffalo to match.
 

wilked

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I love that they wait til the last minute on a decision they made over a week ago. I can see no real chance they match that deal..
 

Brand Name

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This time with a blue checkmark. Gillislee is a Patriot.

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 13s13 seconds ago
Bills declined to match two-year, $6.4 million offer sheet that RB Mike Gillislee signed with Patriots, per source. Gillislee now a Pat.


Let's keep Butler and Jimmy around for at least another year, draft Tanoh Kpassagnon and let's go to war. With this signing, would love to see at least one package in 41, given how much the rule changes this offseason benefit RPOs. Dream offseason.
 

bakahump

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[QUOTE="

Let's keep Butler and Jimmy around for at least another year, draft Tanoh Kpassagnon and let's go to war. With this signing, would love to see at least one package in 41, given how much the rule changes this offseason benefit RPOs. Dream offseason.[/QUOTE]

Notre Dame made the 4 Horsemen Backfield famous. As a navy guy Bill would never do it.

(to be fair one of the Horseman was the QB)

Edit: I was a moron...it was ND not Army.
2nd Edit: For fun you should read the wiki article. I love how all 4 backs weighed less then 163 lbs.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Godspeed, LGBT. You played with heart and humor.

Still look to draft an RB to stack some talent in looking ahead to 2018, no?
 

Mooch

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Awesome! They got my guy! Very excited to see Gillislee in early down situations.
 

Stitch01

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Godspeed, LGBT. You played with heart and humor.

Still look to draft an RB to stack some talent in looking ahead to 2018, no?
They have Gillislee and White under contract for 2018 already so I dont think this has to be a super high priority.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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They have Gillislee and White under contract for 2018 already so I dont think this has to be a super high priority.
Agree - drafting a runningback seems to be a waste of resources to me. Runningbacks tend to be most valuable their first couple of years, and this guy wouldn't be playing, and the pats have a ton of RB talent on the roster.
 

E5 Yaz

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Mike Reiss ESPN Staff Writer
One follow-up note on the Patriots surrendering a fifth-round draft pick to Buffalo for restricted free-agent running back Mike Gillislee: The selection going to Buffalo is No. 163 overall, which the Patriots had acquired from Denver last year in a trade for TE AJ Derby. So this is basically a Gillislee for Derby trade.
 

BigSoxFan

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Mike Reiss ESPN Staff Writer
One follow-up note on the Patriots surrendering a fifth-round draft pick to Buffalo for restricted free-agent running back Mike Gillislee: The selection going to Buffalo is No. 163 overall, which the Patriots had acquired from Denver last year in a trade for TE AJ Derby. So this is basically a Gillislee for Derby trade.
That's just awesome. And to think we were all worried about that trade hurting this team.