They were fortunate to have that pick to sign Gillislee. If they didn't, they couldn't have done the deal without acquiring a 5th round pick, because they had traded their own for Mingo.
Gillislee is a Patriot
- Thread starter SpinnersRock
- Start date
Without the Derby trade they wouldn't have a 5th rounder to make an offer with right? Pats gave up the original 5th round pick in the Mingo trade and I don't think you can make an offer with the comp pick.
Am I the only one who thinks Hogan doesn't have good hands? I like every other part of his game but he rarely seems to catch a ball clean.
His catch rate last year was higher than Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Golden Tate, Brandin Cooks, AJ Green, Jordy Nelson, Demaryius Thomas, Jordan Mathews...
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/receiving-catch-rate?season_id=14
So you're saying I'm not seeing him bobble and then catch these balls? Or that he catches his percentage of them even if not clean?
Unless you've seen every catch he's made on close-up, you're forming your opinion on anecdotal evidence
Yeah, 68 percent is pretty good when you have the highest yards per catch in the NFL.
After the season was over, I watched condensed games for the whole year and I didn't think Hogan was prone to drops. I think the one off his fingers in the Super Bowl and maybe the fact that he had a couple of bobbles (but ultimately held on) in the AFCCG make it seem that way. But he was pretty dependable.
Watching those condensed games, it was pretty surprising to me how many big plays he made in big moments last year. I didn't remember that, and only having 38 catches was a bit surprising too (although maybe that's because he was so heavily targeted in the playoffs). His timing was pretty good -- he had some big moments. By and large, when he got balls in his direction, it was because he had gotten open, and he caught them more often then not. I'd think that in terms of distance in the air, no player on the team was deeper at the time of the throw than Hogan on average, and catching as many as he did when accuracy breaks down due to time in the pocket is pretty good.
Interestingly, the only games the Patriots lost last year were the ones where Hogan didn't have a catch. I hadn't realized that.
Even if I had seen every catch I might still be wrong in comparison to other WRs who I haven't seen. This of course is why I asked for others opinions
Thanks for these answers.
To be clear, I wasn't asking about drops. Only querying whether he bobbles more than his share of them.
FWIW: Your numbers have assured me that in either case, he is hanging on to his share of them.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
People are confusing bobbling with dropping. His catch rate is high, but he does have a trademark bobble.
https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/hogan-bobbling-passes.1137629/
Since there's no formal Thank You LGB thread yet, this thread is kinda the de facto one. So I'll add thank you LG for alll the smashmouth moving the pile runs; the amazing 300+ all purpose yards against Buffalo in 203 including 2 electrifying kick off returns; the 2014/15 contributions en route to that championship, including the big deflategate game versus Indy; the record breaking 18 TDs this year; and the ongoing game commentary for (I believe) the Inside the NFL super bowl video for this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in a Pats uniform, via injury or whatever, sometime in the future
Last edited:
I'm saying I'd rather trust the stats that says his catch rate is X than you remembering some bobbles before, you know, catching the ball.
Now I see the "bobble" post. Any idea regarding bobbles that turn into drops? Without those numbers, I don't really know if this is anything other than small sample size.
Last edited:
Hogan has good hands. The stats are #1 but he also consistently catches them all away from his body and brings it in. He doesn't do the Dobson or Kenbrell where they always let the ball get into their body or really struggle to snatch it in traffic.
Off the cuff best hands ranking:
Amendola
Hogan
Gronk
Mitchell
Edelman (he can make really difficult moving catches in traffic but he's good for 2 easy drops every 3 games)
White
Cooks looks good. Perhaps better than Mitchell but I'll reserve judgement.
Is anyone else rather surprised by how much money is going to RBs this year? It's like $9M or something. I don't even know why they signed Burkhead. Have the BB Pats ever spent this much cap on the RB position?
Strange times.
Off the cuff best hands ranking:
Amendola
Hogan
Gronk
Mitchell
Edelman (he can make really difficult moving catches in traffic but he's good for 2 easy drops every 3 games)
White
Cooks looks good. Perhaps better than Mitchell but I'll reserve judgement.
Is anyone else rather surprised by how much money is going to RBs this year? It's like $9M or something. I don't even know why they signed Burkhead. Have the BB Pats ever spent this much cap on the RB position?
Strange times.
This is exactly where I'm at.
- Trading for TE Allen.
- Signing CB Gilmore.
- Re-signing S Harmon.
- Trading for WR Cooks.
- Trading for DE Ealy.
- Signing DL Guy.
- Signing RB Burkhead.
- Re-signing LB Hightower.
- Signing CB Coleman.
- Re-signing DL Branch.
- Re-signing RB Bolden.
- Signing CB Butler to the tender.
- Re-signing T Fleming.
- Signing RB Gillislee.
Positional Upgrades:
- WR - significantly - Cooks...holy crap Cooks
- RB - moderately to significantly - Gillislee, Burkhead
- DL - moderately to significantly - Ealy, who I think will be terrific here
- CB - significantly - Gilmore and re-signing Butler
Positional Stability:
- LB - Hightower
- S - Harmon
- OL - Fleming
- TE - loved Bennett but think Allen is a more than adequate replacement
In my view, there are zero downgrades in any position for the Patriots. Nothing but either maintaining the quality of this unit OR an improvement. And some of the improvements are huge.
I know I may be in the minority, but unless they KNOW that JG will be Brady's replacement, I still want them to trade him, hopefully for a 2017 first rounder+, but I think if that deal was to be had, it would have been had already, and so I'm hoping for a 2017 second and a 2018 first. Something like that.
Holy smokes this team is absolutely LOADED. And STILL with a bunch of cap space.
Agreed, I am surprised at that as well. Some of Burkhead's value is special teams, but it is a lot at RB.
The timing of the Gilislee signing is interesting. Do you suppose they expected him to extend in Buffalo and just took the shot when he did not, and they wouldn't have signed Burkhead if they knew they'd have realistic shot at Gillislee? Or did they imagine Blount, AP, whoever signing and when they couldn't make economics work Gillislee was the fallback? That is perhaps the simplest sequence to imagine.
I think Burkhead is going to get a fair bit of early down work. Gillislee will get some too, but also will be the short yardage and red zone guy. They also act as insurance for each other to some extent. White will get the bulk of the passing down work. Lewis, Foster, and/or a draft pick will fight for the potential fourth roster spot. I won't be very surprised if Lewis is traded for a 5th round pick or something like that later this week
I keep hearing Gillislee is a "Big Back/ short Yardage" in the LGBT mold. But isnt he like 215 lbs? I have seen everything from 211-220.
Even at 220 he isnt in the true bruiser mold. Does he run exceedingly hard or something?
Love the signing just not sure if he is the plug and play LGBT replacement. I think both he and Burkhead are both capable of SOME short yardage red zone work and more dynamic then LGBT in other areas of the field.
Even at 220 he isnt in the true bruiser mold. Does he run exceedingly hard or something?
Love the signing just not sure if he is the plug and play LGBT replacement. I think both he and Burkhead are both capable of SOME short yardage red zone work and more dynamic then LGBT in other areas of the field.
I think that your latter statement is the most accurate. Many of us here have lamented over the last few years that the offense often become one-dimensional as signaled by which back is on the field.
If Blount, then run.
If White, then pass.
And the same goes for Ridley/Vereen.
It seemed like last year, the Pats tried to get away from that with Lewis, but we all know that he isn't the body type who can be relied on for a lot of touches game after game.
Now, both Gillislee and Burkhead may bring more of that 2-dimensional approach into JMcD's arsenal.
EDIT: I just looked up Gillislee's stats, which certainly don't suggest he is the second coming of ROger Craig as a pass catcher.
If Blount, then run.
If White, then pass.
And the same goes for Ridley/Vereen.
It seemed like last year, the Pats tried to get away from that with Lewis, but we all know that he isn't the body type who can be relied on for a lot of touches game after game.
Now, both Gillislee and Burkhead may bring more of that 2-dimensional approach into JMcD's arsenal.
EDIT: I just looked up Gillislee's stats, which certainly don't suggest he is the second coming of ROger Craig as a pass catcher.
His scouting reports at the U of Florida (was he around when Meyer was?) indicates he was a capable receiver. Not as good as White and Lewis, but much better than Blount.
Im speculating to some extent but assume both of the new guys are going to have a role in the offense. Gillislee got some short yardage/goal line work ahead of McCoy in Buffalo and lead the league in success rate, so I would guess he's a favorite to get short yardage work. I dont think he's a plug and play LGBT replacement, I think Burkhead and Gillislee are going to share (and upgrade) that role and potentially do more in the passing game. Given the White extension, I expect we are still seeing him on passing downs. If Lewis was expected to have a big role I dont expect we'd have seen both Burkhead and Gillislee added to the roster, but we will see, he's not really expensive to keep around this year.
[/QUOTE]
On the other hand, bobbles in conjunction with a low drop would seem to suggest that he bobbles+catches balls that other guys are dropping outright.
On Gillislee, for those that have seen more of him, what's the consensus on him as a pass blocker? A PFF article on the acquisition lists him as near the bottom of RBs in pass protection, but I have no idea how much faith to put in those sorts of numbers.
The positional battles within the team are going to be amazing to watch unfold. The inter-team battles are going to be more challenging than opponents.
Gillislee highlights from last year including a few big gains against Patriots.
Helps illustrate what he does well or at least has been asked to do.
Only one catch in the highlights. He makes a cut and explodes through in most cases.
Helps illustrate what he does well or at least has been asked to do.
Only one catch in the highlights. He makes a cut and explodes through in most cases.
It's so easy to get caught up in a highlights package, but I'll just say this: Runs tough. Is explosive at the line and in tight spaces. Is patient. Psyched to see what he can do in N.E.
Zolak on the radio today was talking about Gillislee and specifically mentioned Collins ignoring the gameplan on Gillislee as the final nail in his coffin as he was traded the following week. Zo said all week leading up to the Bills game he heard coaches stressing to watch his cutbacks and not to let him get the edge on you.
Sheared managed to lose the edge on the second play as well, from the Right End.
Those highlights showed him doing a nice job turing the corner on end runs, which the Pats haven't really been any good at in a long time. He also looked good running in the open field which made me wonder if we might see him and/or Lewis on kick returns. It seems like one advantage of the depth they have at RB means that you could use an RB as KR (ditto for WR and PR).
I would guess you see Lewis as a primary KR and maybe even PR if he can do it reliably enough in preseason, and then he can compete for reps on offense.
Cyrus Jones likely gets one more crack at the return gig in camp/preseason before the job goes to Lewis.
My take away from that reel is that he is very good at quickly identifying a running lane and has the burst-speed to exploit it. Looking forward to watching him in a Pats uniform. (Of course, this is based on a highlight reel so for all I know maybe he danced in holes and got lost on literally every other running play.)
Health dependent of course, but that's probably true. With the current roster I think he has a clearer path to game day value outside of special teams than Amendola or Lewis do with everyone healthy, so would be nice from a game day actives standpoint if he could win the job.
No offense, but based on what I've seen of both, there is NFW I'd put Hogan ahead of Gronk in terms of hands. None.
Edit: I'll let this question go, it's in the wrong thread to begin with...
Since this topic has some legs, why don't you start a new thread about receiving hands so that this thread can stay about Gillislee?
Assuming the highlights were at normal speed, Gillislee seems to take quicker, shorter steps than LGBT. I was taught that for quick acceleration, you want to move your feet fast, taking shorter strides and more of them (in the context of base-stealing). Of course, that could have been coaches trying to help me compensate for slow-twitch muscles and a long stride.
Anyway, I'm wondering if more and faster footfalls allows a RB more opportunities to change direction, or gives them the ability to cut left or right more quickly. Is a "downhill runner" the opposite, with longer, slower strides and less cutting?
Apologies if this is a bit basic, but I'm more of a baseball guy and trying to learn more about football.
Anyway, I'm wondering if more and faster footfalls allows a RB more opportunities to change direction, or gives them the ability to cut left or right more quickly. Is a "downhill runner" the opposite, with longer, slower strides and less cutting?
Apologies if this is a bit basic, but I'm more of a baseball guy and trying to learn more about football.
Sort of my take too. Showed some great cuts and him reading his holes well, but for a highlight film would have expected at least a sample or two of him either making guys miss or dragging some guys along. That said, more of a burst than I remember from his games with the Pats last year.
The best part about this is that Belichick probably remembers this play with the same clarity of those of us who just watched that video 8 seconds ago