Goats, Week 4 at San Francisco

[Eddie Jurak]

1. Offensive line
2. Rhamondre Fumbleson
3. The defensive front seven for the absence of contain and edge-setting

Highlights:
1. Joey Slye kicking a 63-yard FG (and later adding a 54)
2. The incredible near catch of a deep ball by JaLynn Polk. He caught a contested ball despite being sandwiched by 2 defenders, but his shoulder landed out of bounds before his second foot came down
3. Peppers great INT in the end zone

 

[jsinger121]

Jacoby Brissett
OL

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

A thorough whitewashing today. Stick this game into last year's schedule and it wouldn't stand out in the slighest.

Game Goats:

- Brissett was horrendous. The OL issues may be real but on many plays he actually had time and held onto the ball far too long. And for a guy who was supposed to be mistake-free, he turned the ball over twice.

- Mayo was awful today, really an overall unimpressive performance. The nonsense with the hard count on 4th down, then wasting a time out, then calling the slowest-developing run play in NFL history was comically bad. Kraft was bragging that he held the position 5 years for this guy?

- Layden Robinson was bad yet again. 6 sacks allowed by the OL, many more pressures. Brissett had time on many plays but when he didn't have much time it was ugly.

 

[Rico Guapo]

Wolf
OL
Injury Bug

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'll give it to Robinson and Onwenu as the reps of the starting O-line... Jacobs was real bad too, but he's a 4th stringer trying to block Bosa.
Mayo... he's not good at this yet.
Rham... a fumble every game is just unacceptable at this level.

 

[ShaneTrot]

The opponent was in the Super Bowl, they were not winning it but you cannot throw a pick 6, fumble early, and allow 6 sacks. The defense has been mediocre but the offense is just brutal and it gives them no chance against anyone.
The season is going to be rough but the draft pick will be high and they need blue chip talent desperately.

 

[BaseballJones]

We all knew a few things going into the season:

1. This was a total rebuilding season, one of many.
2. They had a very difficult opening schedule, which has proven to be true. Even the Jets aren't bad this year.
3. Ergo, this season was going to be very rough from the perspective of "wanting our team to win football games this year".

It's still not fun, but we all knew this was coming.

 

[Harry Hooper]

BB earns another one for creating this mess.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

We all knew a few things going into the season:

1. This was a total rebuilding season, one of many.
2. They had a very difficult opening schedule, which has proven to be true. Even the Jets aren't bad this year.
3. Ergo, this season was going to be very rough from the perspective of "wanting our team to win football games this year".

It's still not fun, but we all knew this was coming.

They’ve shown zero progress from last year and it’s extremely concerning. The OL is still bad, Polk is Harry 2.0, and the coaching is worse.

A rebuild is tolerable if you can see improvement. So far there has been none except for the kicker.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The OL and ball security overall can clearly be better.

But this team's ceiling given the lack of talent is really low. They basically have to play perfectly to have a chance.

 

[ShaneTrot]

They’ve shown zero progress from last year and it’s extremely concerning. The OL is still bad, Polk is Harry 2.0, and the coaching is worse.

A rebuild is tolerable if you can see improvement. So far there has been none except for the kicker.

They are on their fourth left tackle, I will give the coaches a break on that but this line needs to show some improvement or they have to mitigate the pressure with some quick game. I don’t know if Jacoby can play quick game because he seems very deliberate. I do admire his toughness, he is one tough guy which is admirable compared to what we saw last year.

 

[Jinhocho]

Robinson and Onwenu and the whole OL but I do not see how they can trot Robinson out there right now
Stevenson - I would really like to see Harris activated for next week so if he fumbles you have Harris that can replace him.
D for its inability to set the edge like they need to
Van Pelt
Mayo

Plusses
D played hard for the most part - if with less discipline and lapses
Sly seems like he might be good

This team has no identity and they stink. It is a bad combo.

 

[BaseballJones]

They’ve shown zero progress from last year and it’s extremely concerning. The OL is still bad, Polk is Harry 2.0, and the coaching is worse.

A rebuild is tolerable if you can see improvement. So far there has been none except for the kicker.

When they're not playing the QB that gives them the best chance to win, yeah it looks concerning. Now Maye probably would also singlehandedly cost them some games with key mistakes, but unlike Jacoby, he has the potential to make a ton of big plays. So they're playing kinda sorta with one hand behind their back at the most important position in sports.

Wayyyyyyyy too early to say that Polk is Harry 2.0. He's been targeted 13 times and has 8 receptions (61.5%). That's a 16-game pace of 52 targets and 32 receptions. N'Keal's rookie year he was targeted 24 times and only had 12 receptions (50.0% catch rate). Of course Harry was hurt and only played 7 games, but still. He also had Brady throwing to him while Polk has Brissett. Way too early for this.

 

[Jinhocho]

They are on their fourth left tackle, I will give the coaches a break on that but this line needs to show some improvement or they have to mitigate the pressure with some quick game. I don’t know if Jacoby can play quick game because he seems very deliberate. I do admire his toughness, he is one tough guy which is admirable compared to what we saw last year.

Their first left tackle was ---- Vederian Lowe. The position was a disaster and the dropoff down the ladder is not steep because they all sucked.

 

[Kliq]

After a promising start to the season, the offensive line has been as bad as advertised the last two weeks. It's hard to really take anything away from the offense without even a small improvement to the offensive line, which seems unlikely now with Andrews out.

The left tackle situation is a disaster, the second most important position on the field and it's been below-replacement-level so far with zero continuity.

 

[jercra]

Coaching, Online, and QB.

Coaching: There was no hurry up until way too late. Punting on 4th down early. Terrible play calling when they finally went for it. Letting Jacoby play after his many turnovers and terrible throws.

OLine: I thought they were mostly fine early and there was some acknowledgement that they needed to do something with designed rollouts and such, but then injuries happened and they turned back into the line they were last week.

Brissett: He's really, really bad. He's maybe fine with time, but he's slow and makes slow decisions. Multiple sacks were when he was well outside the pocket with plenty of time to either run or thrown it away. He's slow, his reads are slow, and his awareness is bad. I'd rather see Milton (since Maye clearly isn't an NFL QB). At least Milton would be fun to watch and can run.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They are on their fourth left tackle, I will give the coaches a break on that but this line needs to show some improvement or they have to mitigate the pressure with some quick game. I don’t know if Jacoby can play quick game because he seems very deliberate. I do admire his toughness, he is one tough guy which is admirable compared to what we saw last year.

Jacoby is the anti-Mac, he’s tough and fearless and a leader of men, while Mac was a mental and physical coward. Jacoby is objectively not good, but he’s an admirable player and I’ll always admire his drive and determination in the face of very adverse circumstances.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Their first left tackle was ---- Vederian Lowe. The position was a disaster and the dropoff down the ladder is not steep because they all sucked.

Lowe graded out pretty decently in pass blocking (amusingly his runblocking graded out poorly, flip of the rest of the line) when he was in there, not good by any measure, but mediocre, the rest have all been terrible. It's been a MAJOR dropoff because it went from.... capably not bad to terrible.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Polk is Harry 2.0

That's absurd. Polk was one guy out there who didn't have his head completely up his ass today. That near catch on the sidelines was remarkable and even though the play failed showed more effort and skill than Harry showed in his entire career.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I'd rather see Milton (since Maye clearly isn't an NFL QB). At least Milton would be fun to watch and can run.

Steve Burton also pushing Milton on the Pats wrapup show.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Polk also greatly screwed up a few plays before on the crossing route on one of the few plays where the OL held up. Slowed as he looked towards the ball, he’s got to run full speed through the route.

 

[cornwalls@6]

BB earns another one for creating this mess.

Really? How long does he own this? Mayo can’t coach a lick it seems, and Wolf had a full off season with cap room to improve the team.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Really? How long does he own this? Mayo can’t coach a lick it seems, and Wolf had a full off season with cap room to improve the team.

Wolf also spent most of the offseason re-signing BB guys, so if they’re bad Wolf still chose to bring them back.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Ok, so he's a bust because he came out of the break slowly on one play. Cool. I mean, he nearly made that catch, it was a small mistake.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Where do the Pats currently rank on the most important positions on offense?

QB: Bottom 5?
LT: Bottom 1-2?
WR: Bottom 5? Worse?

We all get why they’re here but it’s just not even remotely entertaining football.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Ok, so he's a bust because he came out of the break slowly on one play. Cool. I mean, he nearly made that catch, it was a small mistake.

It was in fact a mistake which cost him the catch that any NFL receiver should make.

He also oddly gave up on that weird play down the sideline that was nearly a pick. Overall I’ve been unimpressed with him.

 

[rodderick]

Coaching, Online, and QB.

Coaching: There was no hurry up until way too late. Punting on 4th down early. Terrible play calling when they finally went for it. Letting Jacoby play after his many turnovers and terrible throws.

OLine: I thought they were mostly fine early and there was some acknowledgement that they needed to do something with designed rollouts and such, but then injuries happened and they turned back into the line they were last week.

Brissett: He's really, really bad. He's maybe fine with time, but he's slow and makes slow decisions. Multiple sacks were when he was well outside the pocket with plenty of time to either run or thrown it away. He's slow, his reads are slow, and his awareness is bad. I'd rather see Milton (since Maye clearly isn't an NFL QB). At least Milton would be fun to watch and can run.

What on Earth are you talking about?

 

[jsinger121]

Really? How long does he own this? Mayo can’t coach a lick it seems, and Wolf had a full off season with cap room to improve the team.

Good talent doesn't get to free agency. Do we want to see the Patriots wasting money like they did after 2020? Where did that get them?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Where do the Pats currently rank on the most important positions on offense?

QB: Bottom 5?
LT: Bottom 1-2?
WR: Bottom 5? Worse?

We all get why they’re here but it’s just not even remotely entertaining football.

QB: unknown, since they haven't played their real future QB yet... if you mean Jacoby... probably bottom 8 or so.
LT: Bottom 3 probably
WR: Bottom 5-8, lot of young guys and the O-line/QB situation makes evaluation tough (Edit- also Bourne was a pretty good WR2 last year and hasn't played yet).

 

[E5 Yaz]

So far, we've heard:

Mayo can't coach a lick
Maye clearly isn't an NFL quarterback
Polk is Harry 2.0

It would be sad if it wasn't so funny, and funny if it wasn't so sad

 

[Jinhocho]

Wolf also spent most of the offseason re-signing BB guys, so if they’re bad Wolf still chose to bring them back.

Yes they are now Wolf's guys.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Mayo can't coach a lick
Maye clearly isn't an NFL quarterback
Polk is Harry 2.0

It would be sad if it wasn't so funny, and funny if it wasn't so sad

Maybe we should just close game threads and post game threads so the kids on your lawn don’t upset you.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

It was in fact a mistake which cost him the catch that any NFL receiver should make.

He also oddly gave up on that weird play down the sideline that was nearly a pick. Overall I’ve been unimpressed with him.

His QB is playing behind one of the worst offensive lines you'll ever see and has an almost complete inability to get the ball to the wide receivers even when he isn't running for his life. Maybe pump the brakes on burying a kid four games into his career.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

His QB is playing behind one of the worst offensive lines you'll ever see and has an almost complete inability to get the ball to the wide receivers even when he isn't running for his life. Maybe pump the brakes on burying a kid four games into his career.

Which is what made that play completely inexcusable because for once Brissett was given time to throw, and delivered a perfect dart downfield.

 

[Ale Xander]

Kraft for hiring Mayo without a search

 

[jercra]

What on Earth are you talking about?

That was in reference to like 95% of this board wanting him to not see the field until they have a great OL.

 

[JCizzle]

QB: unknown, since they haven't played their real future QB yet... if you mean Jacoby... probably bottom 8 or so.
LT: Bottom 3 probably
WR: Bottom 5-8, lot of young guys and the O-line/QB situation makes evaluation tough (Edit- also Bourne was a pretty good WR2 last year and hasn't played yet).

Do you look to move Bourne for whatever at the deadline if he looks OK when he comes back? I loved Bourne in the Jauan Jennings role on the Niners, but I'm not sure how he stacks up across the league in terms of value.

 

[lexrageorge]

Do you look to move Bourne for whatever at the deadline if he looks OK when he comes back? I loved Bourne in the Jauan Jennings role on the Niners, but I'm not sure how he stacks up across the league in terms of value.

They should be looking to move any and every veteran of value at the deadline.

 

[Justthetippett]

They should be looking to move any and every veteran of value at the deadline.

I wouldn't hang up any phones, that's for sure, but I don't think a complete sell off is how this works. They'll struggle in FA until they can show some improvement, and can't do it all through the draft (and have very little young talent waiting in the wings).

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean if you can get a 2nd for Bourne from somebody desperate... sure. But I kind of doubt it, and you're eating a cap hit and he's a really versatile vet WR, which means he can play in any combination and will make fewer of the young WR mistakes that have been an issue so far.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

JaLynn Polk was drafted in the second round and has played a total of 4 NFL games. He has 8 catches for 61 yards, on 13 targets, and came ~6 inches away from an incredible contested catch of a 4th and 5 bomb. His 21 yarder today was a great catch too. And he caught the only Pats TD thrown to a WR thus far this year.

Those numbers are pedestrian to say the least, but they aren't really that far off of what our 2023 leading receiver has done. (Douglas has 12 catches for 94 yards on 15 targets).

N'Keal Harry 1st round pick did not play his rookie year on the 2024 Patriots, he played on the 2019 Patriots who had a guy named Tom Brady at the helm of the offense. Now granted, this was not the 2007 or 2016 Pats offense. In the 7 games Harry played the Pats were only 4-3. He was targeted 24 times, BY TOM M'Fing BRADY, and he managed 12 catches for 105 yards and 2 TDs.

Polk would be doing better if he had Tom Brady throwing him the ball - Harry couldn't do better even with Brady throwing him the ball.

 

[SMU_Sox]

They’ve shown zero progress from last year and it’s extremely concerning. The OL is still bad, Polk is Harry 2.0, and the coaching is worse.

A rebuild is tolerable if you can see improvement. So far there has been none except for the kicker.

Agree but imo be a little more patient with Polk. He’s shown more explosiveness and fluidity than Harry did. I think his routes in general are better but he’s a rookie and is still struggling with assignments. Hes

Robinson and Onwenu and the whole OL but I do not see how they can trot Robinson out there right now
Stevenson - I would really like to see Harris activated for next week so if he fumbles you have Harris that can replace him.
D for its inability to set the edge like they need to
Van Pelt
Mayo

Plusses
D played hard for the most part - if with less discipline and lapses
Sly seems like he might be good

This team has no identity and they stink. It is a bad combo.

Robinson is a traffic cone. Sow wasn’t much better. Street FA LT played slightly better than I thought he would. Neither guy can figure out how to defend a basic twist.

They are on LT 6? LG should be Strange, so backup LG. C was injured. Back there. RG is a rookie who shouldn’t be starting. And RT is a RG playing out of place.

You’re down or the person mentioned didn’t work out: (because one reason or the other) Lowe, Wallace, Chuks, Anderson at OT.

At OG: Strange, Michael Jordan.

At OC: both Andrews.

That’s a lot of guys that didn’t help today.

AVP for some bizarre play calling. This offense isn’t going to work. With this bad an OL you need to basically be all spread and quick game and get the ball out quick. Use misdirection. Use gimmick. Be creative. You can’t run a conventional offense. And that means you probably can’t stick with JB because he’s not a guy who can live in a quick process and get the ball out offense. But at least you got to change it structurally.

 

[Reverend]

I vote Baker. Because I think he’s the only person I haven’t seen get shit.

Fuck that guy. Can’t even get on the field. All mouth.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Good talent doesn't get to free agency. Do we want to see the Patriots wasting money like they did after 2020? Where did that get them?

This can’t be said enough. Their line sucks because they have no left tackle. Left tackles get drafted in the top ten. And if they make to free agency it’s usually because they suck, or they can’t stay on the field. There was literally no way that they were getting a good left tackle this year unless they didn’t pick Maye.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Kraft for hiring Mayo without a search

According to Greg Bedard, Mayo had language in his contract that paid him a $10 million buyout if he wasn’t named head coach after Belichick. Kraft wasn’t eating $10 million on top of paying someone else.

 

[jsinger121]

According to Greg Bedard, Mayo had language in his contract that paid him a $10 million buyout if he wasn’t named head coach after Belichick. Kraft wasn’t eating $10 million on top of paying someone else.

Agreed but this should be a lesson learned going forward. Never do a promise like that no matter how much you like someone. It's not good business at all.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I don’t see why anybody is surprised or upset that a team we all expected to win 3-6 games, and then suffered devastating injuries to some of its best players, is looking like a 3 win team.

I’m certainly not ready to blame Mayo for that state of affairs.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I don’t see why anybody is surprised or upset that a team we all expected to win 3-6 games, and then suffered devastating injuries to some of its best players, is looking like a 3 win team.

I’m certainly not ready to blame Mayo for that state of affairs.

I don't think most of the criticism of Mayo is about the wins, the things the head coach is directly responsible for have been concerning... timeouts, challenges, 4th down decision making, accountability, etc.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I don't think most of the criticism of Mayo is about the wins, the things the head coach is directly responsible for have been concerning... timeouts, challenges, 4th down decision making, accountability, etc.

Oh I agree there. But I’ll be a lot more concerned if it’s still happening in December given he is a rookie head coach with a lot of new faces on staff.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I can’t even begin to worry about Mayo until this roster gets much better. He could be bad. He could be decent. He could be Mazzulla 2.0. Impossible to know until the roster gets upgraded from dumpster fire to decent.