Gone Brady Gone

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BaseballJones

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Then make the information free. Don't peddle cookbooks and concussion water. He's up there with Papi for me for guys that get a free pass, but he's pushing it a bit.

Edit: I think it's a leap to give him altruistic motivation.
Not trying to be a jerk, but anyone who has ever come up with a way to help people should also give their ideas and products away for free or else they’re bad human beings?

I mean, that’s a heck of a standard to hold people to.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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I forever will love Tom Brady, but if he suffers an injury that sidelines him for any length of time this season, he will have a virtual tsunami of #pliability's thrown back in his handsome face.
 
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McBride11

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Brady must have forgotten to stretch prior to 2008 game 1.

I will always have a strong love of Brady for the past 20 years he gave us as fans. It will never be matched.

Brady’s pocket awarness / footwork are incredible, but the average pro soccer player (footballer?) runs 7 miles in a match.
(I’d wager CP is over this given his position).

Brady ran maybe 100 yards in a game, and that was to and from the sideline mostly as he doesnt sprint in the pocket.
I significantly doubt the best American soccer player is hopping off the bus, lacing up his boots, and going to jog / sprint 7+ miles.
Seems like a real crappy comment about a player that just got injured.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Not trying to be a jerk, but anyone who has ever come up with a way to help people should also give their ideas and products away for free or else they’re bad human beings?

I mean, that’s a heck of a standard to hold people to.
I'm not saying that selling it makes him a bad person, but if he were doing it to get the message out there to help others (and not to make money) there's other ways.
 

Marciano490

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Brady must have forgotten to stretch prior to 2008 game 1.

I will always have a strong love of Brady for the past 20 years he gave us as fans. It will never be matched.

Brady’s pocket awarness / footwork are incredible, but the average pro soccer player (footballer?) runs 7 miles in a match.
(I’d wager CP is over this given his position).

Brady ran maybe 100 yards in a game, and that was to and from the sideline mostly as he doesnt sprint in the pocket.
I significantly doubt the best American soccer player is hopping off the bus, lacing up his boots, and going to jog / sprint 7+ miles.
Seems like a real crappy comment about a player that just got injured.
Your medical background is slightly more comprehensive than mine, so you might know more, but I remember reading in one of Pavel Tsatsouline’s books that some injuries are more severe if an athlete is over flexibility. Like where a normal person’s range of motion would’ve have caught at just a sprain, the more flexible person’s would end with a greater tear or break.
 

McBride11

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Your medical background is slightly more comprehensive than mine, so you might know more, but I remember reading in one of Pavel Tsatsouline’s books that some injuries are more severe if an athlete is over flexibility. Like where a normal person’s range of motion would’ve have caught at just a sprain, the more flexible person’s would end with a greater tear or break.
I think that is related to flexible / pliable but weak muscles. The weak muscles don’t support the joints properly so things over stretch causing tears.
I’d speculate this wouldn’t apply to a world class athlete who probably doesn’t skip leg day.


But we can page the other bone doc - @DaveRoberts'Shoes - to weigh in.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Your medical background is slightly more comprehensive than mine, so you might know more, but I remember reading in one of Pavel Tsatsouline’s books that some injuries are more severe if an athlete is over flexibility. Like where a normal person’s range of motion would’ve have caught at just a sprain, the more flexible person’s would end with a greater tear or break.
Pliability isn't meant to mean flexibility. Effectively he wants to keep his muscles loose. The reason bodybuilders constantly get hurt is because they are constantly sending messages to their muscles to contract. So the muscle gets hard and gets knotted up. The idea is to keep the muscle stretched out and workable.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I'm not sure what Brady and his guy are teaching, but there is definitely some solid science and evidence behind pliability (not flexibility). It's just never been called pliability.

The muscle should be stretched and messaged after heavy use (and especially after activities that require strict contraction of the muscle). Cold stretching is no longer in favor because it doesn't actually stretch the muscle and can cause injury. Instead, the muscle should be stretched and worked after being utilized when blood flow is high.

Consider a scenario where a football player lifts heavy during the week, but doesn't properly stretch and loosen the muscle. All week its getting contracted over and over. Then on game day there is some cold stretching that doesn't fully loosen the muscle and some running which brings blood to the muscle, but doesn't necessarily stretch it. Over the course of the game the muscle gets tired and weaker and sometime in the third quarter it gets violently stretched trying to get that extra yard. The muscle is still tight, but now it's also tired. The extra stretch at speed forces the muscle to tear or cramp violently which causes injury. This can also happen with underdeveloped muscles where other muscles are attempting to compensate.

Contraction builds the muscle, stretching and massaging gets it ready to perform.

This is especially important for Brady to keep his hips and arms loose for a consistent and reliable throwing motion.
 

Marciano490

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I think that is related to flexible / pliable but weak muscles. The weak muscles don’t support the joints properly so things over stretch causing tears.
I’d speculate this wouldn’t apply to a world class athlete who probably doesn’t skip leg day.


But we can page the other bone doc - @DaveRoberts'Shoes - to weigh in.
I just got this. Well done.
 

joe dokes

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I have little doubt that working at it has helped make Brady durable. The issue to me is that his direct reference to Pulisic suggests that his own training/Chelsea staff -- 2 things about which Tom Brady probably knows very little -- is somehow deficient. That's weak.
 

BigSoxFan

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I have little doubt that working at it has helped make Brady durable. The issue to me is that his direct reference to Pulisic suggests that his own training/Chelsea staff -- 2 things about which Tom Brady probably knows very little -- is somehow deficient. That's weak.
Agreed. It was the delivery.
 

Silverdude2167

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In a truncated offseason, doesn't it make all the sense in the world to have one man with a maniacal work ethic and really high football IQ learn a new system than try to install a complex new offense?
That is a good point, the counterpoint to that is Arian's offense is high risk/high reward and leads to the QB taking a lot of hits.

Two things that do not scream Brady to me...
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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My thought is that he's the best that has ever done the quarterback thing and while he's partly a creature of preparation, he also has shown an ability to adapt. He'll be fine.

He has an amazing cast of receivers. He'll find the open one. System is important but he's going to be fine.

If he stays upright and they have a season, he's going to be absolutely fantastic this year. Beyond that, I don't know. Buy any football fan that's skeptical of what this guy can do in pretty much in any environment and in any set of conditions has amnesia.
 

Shaky Walton

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I love Tom Brady. He is and probably always will be my favorite pro athlete.

But the last several years I just sort of ignored all his nonsense and pseudo intellectual comments. Now that he's gone, I will continue to ignore for the most part but what I do hear is so off putting. Yeah, had he stayed in NE, I would not be nearly as affected.

None of this is surprising. Still, it's kind of liberating not to have to look the other way as much. Again, I would press the undo button on Tom leaving if I could, so I'm not BSing myself here. It's just nice to see a Cam Newton press conference and be ale to relate to the QB, notwithstanding the odd outfit he was wearing.
 

Shaky Walton

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Ben Volin's take this morning on Tom participating in the off season program in Tampa as a big FU to the Pats seems like a huge reach. Umm, maybe Tom knows that he has a whole new system and needs to put in the time during the OTAs. Is it only and always about us? Yes, there may be an element of that. But not nearly as much as Ben suggests, methinks.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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Ben Volin's take this morning on Tom participating in the off season program in Tampa as a big FU to the Pats seems like a huge reach. Umm, maybe Tom knows that he has a whole new system and needs to put in the time during the OTAs. Is it only and always about us? Yes, there may be an element of that. But not nearly as much as Ben suggests, methinks.
Think of the stupidest person you know. Now, subtract about half of their IQ points. What you get is someone who is smarter than Ben Volin.
 

RedOctober3829

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What is this "tantrums" business?
Tantrum is a bit strong. I think Brady along the way forgot how hard picking up an NFL offense can be and was not patient enough with young players who were struggling and made mistakes. By his own words on Thursday, he’s now having to learn a new offense for the first time in 20 years and having to spend much more mental energy than he had to in previous years. Maybe now he realizes that he should have been there last off season to help ease the transition for guys. His words about using every minute to get better ring hollow for me when he was absent in the spring the last couple of years.
 

Super Nomario

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Tantrum is a bit strong. I think Brady along the way forgot how hard picking up an NFL offense can be and was not patient enough with young players who were struggling and made mistakes. By his own words on Thursday, he’s now having to learn a new offense for the first time in 20 years and having to spend much more mental energy than he had to in previous years. Maybe now he realizes that he should have been there last off season to help ease the transition for guys. His words about using every minute to get better ring hollow for me when he was absent in the spring the last couple of years.
They won a Super Bowl one of those years.

I blame Bill for putting Harry on IR way more than I blame Brady iwbh.
 

lexrageorge

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The Harry situation was indeed strange, but blaming Belichick for placing him on IR seems misplaced. For whatever reason, the coaches felt he wasn't ready to contribute at the start of the season. And from what we saw later in the season, they were likely correct.
 

tims4wins

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The Harry situation was indeed strange, but blaming Belichick for placing him on IR seems misplaced. For whatever reason, the coaches felt he wasn't ready to contribute at the start of the season. And from what we saw later in the season, they were likely correct.
I do blame them for suiting up Harry in the Detroit preseason game. He was dealing with injury in practice. I think they said it was unrelated but it didn’t seem like a necessary risk.
 

Super Nomario

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The Harry situation was indeed strange, but blaming Belichick for placing him on IR seems misplaced. For whatever reason, the coaches felt he wasn't ready to contribute at the start of the season. And from what we saw later in the season, they were likely correct.
I don't disagree with this, FWIW. I think they realized Harry was behind what they would expect out of a first-round pick and inserting him into the lineup late in the year was largely borne of desperation.

I'm just saying that if we're blaming Brady for missing out on the handful of reps with Harry he would have gotten in OTAs, Belichick's decision to IR Harry (who had already returned to practice) cost him far, far more practice reps.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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When they IR'd Harry they had Gordon and Edelman and soon would have AB. There didn't appear to be a crushing need for another WR.

Look at the point totals from the early part of the season while Harry was out: 33, 43, 30, 16, 33, 35, 33 27. They didn't have any trouble scoring points. But after AB went AB and Gordon went Gordon and Edelman got hurt as did everyone else, they couldn't score any more.
 

Super Nomario

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When they IR'd Harry they had Gordon and Edelman and soon would have AB. There didn't appear to be a crushing need for another WR.
They didn't have AB, though. They put Harry on IR on September 2. The Raiders didn't cut Brown until September 7. The Patriots immediately signed him to a significant deal. So clearly they thought WR was still a big need, or they wouldn't have signed Brown at all.

Demaryius Thomas was the immediate beneficiary of Harry going on IR, though of course he was gone as soon as Brown was signed. It's honestly hard to tell what the plan was at WR last year, and seemingly every move they made just made things worse.

Look at the point totals from the early part of the season while Harry was out: 33, 43, 30, 16, 33, 35, 33 27. They didn't have any trouble scoring points. But after AB went AB and Gordon went Gordon and Edelman got hurt as did everyone else, they couldn't score any more.
This is true, but they also had six defensive or special teams TDs in those first eight games, which makes some of those numbers look a lot gaudier than they really were.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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"Frustrated that they didn't listen to his input" could mean a lot of things, especially if the input was "Keep AB around no matter how crazy he is." It's such a vague statement it can be made to mean anything at all.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I just think we have to accept that the things that made Brady the greatest of all time also have negative aspects. He is driven more than pretty much anyone else who has ever played the game and so it is not surprising that he has control issues and control aspects of his personality. These are things that were accommodated and maybe even encouraged during an incredible 19 year run and they led directly to multiple super bowl appearances and championships. They caused strain when he was 43, was coming off a pretty frustrating season, and had $30 million on the table when the Patriots had less than $1 million in cap space.

All those hundreds of times we all said it was never going to end well, this is what we were talking about and frankly I'm pretty surprised it is not a whole hell of a lot worse. To his credit, Brady is not saying these things publicly and who knows what his expectations were about privacy of the conversation with Montana and whether or not Joe is putting a gloss on it.
 

OurF'ingCity

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The full article is here:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/17/tom-brady-bucs-camp-nfl-fmia-peter-king/
Not much that we didn't know already. He doesn't come out and say it directly, but he clearly wasn't a massive fan of Belichick/McD/the Pats system by the end. Talks about how he's never had an "offensive head coach" until now and how it was difficult for him in McD's system which gave Brady "little margin for error."

The article spends a LOT of time talking about Brady's receivers and Brady's comfort with the new system, but, notably, the article doesn't use the phrase "offensive line" a single time. As always, that is going to determine how much success Brady and the Bucs have on offense - if he has plenty of time to throw Brady will be great like he always is, and if he doesn't, he will struggle.
 

DJnVa

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I didn't want to link to Peter King. His article actually has pictures of Peter King.
 

Harry Hooper

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The full article is here:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/17/tom-brady-bucs-camp-nfl-fmia-peter-king/
Not much that we didn't know already. He doesn't come out and say it directly, but he clearly wasn't a massive fan of Belichick/McD/the Pats system by the end. Talks about how he's never had an "offensive head coach" until now and how it was difficult for him in McD's system which gave Brady "little margin for error."

The article spends a LOT of time talking about Brady's receivers and Brady's comfort with the new system, but, notably, the article doesn't use the phrase "offensive line" a single time. As always, that is going to determine how much success Brady and the Bucs have on offense - if he has plenty of time to throw Brady will be great like he always is, and if he doesn't, he will struggle.
Yeah, the offensive head coach who is quite likely going to get Brady snapped in two with the emphasis on deep routes.
 

Shaky Walton

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The full article is here:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/17/tom-brady-bucs-camp-nfl-fmia-peter-king/
Not much that we didn't know already. He doesn't come out and say it directly, but he clearly wasn't a massive fan of Belichick/McD/the Pats system by the end. Talks about how he's never had an "offensive head coach" until now and how it was difficult for him in McD's system which gave Brady "little margin for error."

The article spends a LOT of time talking about Brady's receivers and Brady's comfort with the new system, but, notably, the article doesn't use the phrase "offensive line" a single time. As always, that is going to determine how much success Brady and the Bucs have on offense - if he has plenty of time to throw Brady will be great like he always is, and if he doesn't, he will struggle.
Was it the system that gave him little margin for error or that McD and Brady were both forced into that given the skill players?

Seems like it was the latter.

Arians is convinced—and has told Brady this—that he won’t have to worry about making the perfect decision on every pass-drop. Last season in New England, with a beat-up and lesser group of skill players, offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels had to scheme everything intricately to give a play a chance to work, and Brady had little margin for error. This year, Arians said, “It’s gonna be a lot easier for what we’re doing because I’m not gonna ask him to put us in the perfect play every play. He’s got two wide receivers that can beat anybody one on one and tight ends and, basically, if you read out our patterns, you’ll get to the right guy.”
It's true that the skill players last year were wanting. TE was a near zero. But it will be more than a little enjoyable if Newton or Stidham manages to be productive with hopefully better rookie TEs and whatever else they have at WR.
 

Gash Prex

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Just imagine if Brady had an offensive coach in 2007 ... talk about throwing McDaniels under the bus. The issue was the skill players and Brady aging. It had very little to do with "coaching" or an "offensive coach"
 

OurF'ingCity

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Just imagine if Brady had an offensive coach in 2007 ... talk about throwing McDaniels under the bus. The issue was the skill players and Brady aging. It had very little to do with "coaching" or an "offensive coach"
To be fair to Brady, he was saying that he had never had an offense-first head coach, which is true - particularly in the years when Belichick was acting as de facto defensive coordinator I assume if Brady had raised offensive issues/questions with Belichick he mostly would have just been referred to Josh.

Ultimately Brady just seems to want to have a lot more say over things like offensive playcalling and personnel decisions than he ever had or would have had in Foxborough.
 

BaseballJones

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It's not unreasonable for Brady to look around and see the input that other top QBs have in the league on their teams, and to want the same thing in NE. It's also not unreasonable for him to feel unappreciated or put out if he gets the cold shoulder to that idea. It could be argued that it's a little crazy that the greatest - and one of the smartest - QBs in NFL history doesn't get the same kind of input that other, lesser QBs do.

On the other hand, it's not unreasonable for BB to say no to that because no other team has HIM as the HC. I can see why in the end, Brady felt like it was better for him to go elsewhere.
 
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