Goodbye Gruden and ongoing Snyder investigation discussion

[Gunfighter 09]

Former Raiders' President Amy Trask made it clear that this kind of behavior occurred in the past with Bruce Allen and that she made multiple complaints to Al Davis when they were all at the Raiders together (1995-2003).

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/18/amy-trask-repeatedly-reported-bruce-allen-to-al-davis/
View: https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1449812861593788432?s=20




Gruden doesn't deserve an ounce of sympathy, but it is unfair that he is being held to very appropriate account for his bad behavior, while Allen, Snyder etc. are not being made to suffer in any real way for much worse behavior that almost certainly goes far beyond inappropriate and into the land of what is illegal or even criminal.Gruden didn't take anyone's passport against their will. It will also be unfair if Gruden ends up being the only non Deadskins related NFL figure to have his misdeeds brought to light from the Snyder investigation, reasonably assuming that he wasn't the only bigoted asshole that bigoted asshole Bruce Allen was exchanging bigoted asshole emails with during the time period covered by the investigation.

I don't really have a problem with what King said or how he said it. I hope Gruden uses his significant wealth and, insulated by the fact that he will never hold another NFL or NFL media job again, takes legal action that fully brings to light what was found in the Snyder investigation.

 

[mauf]

Right. Of course nothing germane to the actual investigation has come to light at all. The verbal report Wilkinson was asked to deliver suggests to me that they were worried about a written report for some reason – that it would leak, that it would create more problems than it solved, etc. I don’t know. It doesn't seem to suggest that the league took it that seriously tho maybe there were other factors. You’d think that a written report could have at least demonstrated how thorough her team was, even if their findings weren’t particularly insightful.

But the absurdly light penalty—$10M and quasi giving up control of the team to his wife for some indeterminate period of time—doesn’t even comport with what we already knee about Snyder per what the WaPo reported (and King recounted). So even if they weren’t the primary audience, the public is left with more questions than answers from this investigation. And given where things stand, that seems like a bad outcome for the league.

This is an unusual situation, in that the party being investigated (the WFT) is not the client of the firm (the NFL). I would assume that the club withheld some information (e.g., information that is subject to attorney-client privilege) from the firm, and that the parties agreed to what would and wouldn’t be provided.

I agree that announcing an “independent” investigation, but issuing no report, raises more questions than it answers. Even if a written report offered only cursory conclusions that echoed the NFL’s public statements, the report would presumably recite what the firm was asked to investigate, and what they were (and, crucially, were not) given access to as part of that investigation. For example, the leaked emails suggest that the firm dove deeply into the club’s records, but it doesn’t tell us, say, whether Snyder sat for an interview, or how the firm got comfortable that the club didn’t obstruct the investigation via dubious claims of attorney-client privilege.

 

[mauf]

Once again, it's important to remember that the league is claiming not to have even received a written report. And yet, they were able to pull specific emails (that were outside of the scope) from a trove of 650,000 that they reviewed and use them to destroy Gruden.

It’s not like Goodell went through 650,000 emails himself. And if someone in the NFL offices did so, it would’ve been under the direction of Pash, and I can’t imagine we would have found out about the particulars.

It’s possible that Snyder conducted a parallel investigation, found the emails himself, and was the source of the leak. But I believe it’s undisputed that the NFL had possession of the emails and had sent at least a subset of them to Mark Davis before the story broke. I have to imagine those emails were flagged by the firm, and given that Pash was implicated, I have to believe they were sent directly to Goodell. He didn’t go looking for a needle in a haystack; the needle was presented to him, and he had to decide what to do with it.

 

[Jimbodandy]

A reputable law firm won’t knowingly lend its name to a whitewash, but beyond that, you should view a law-firm investigation as you would an internal investigation, not an independent investigation.

Paul, Weiss signed off on a report that said that PV does not equal nRT. The fiction writer of that report is a partner.

How soon we forget.

 

[Average Reds]

It’s not like Goodell went through 650,000 emails himself. And if someone in the NFL offices did so, it would’ve been under the direction of Pash, and I can’t imagine we would have found out about the particulars.

It’s possible that Snyder conducted a parallel investigation, found the emails himself, and was the source of the leak. But I believe it’s undisputed that the NFL had possession of the emails and had sent at least a subset of them to Mark Davis before the story broke. I have to imagine those emails were flagged by the firm, and given that Pash was implicated, I have to believe they were sent directly to Goodell. He didn’t go looking for a needle in a haystack; the needle was presented to him, and he had to decide what to do with it.

I have no idea what you are arguing, because I am not suggesting that Goodell went through the emails himself. Nor is it remotely conceivable that Snyder (or his lawyers) went through these emails and was the source of the leak.

I do think that whatever the thinking behind the leaks and the actions, the direction came from the NFL. Which means that, at minimum, Goodell signed off on it. And the law firm is executing it from their database.

None of that supports your theory that law firms would never knowingly take part in a whitewash.

 

[johnmd20]

I have no idea what you are arguing, because I am not suggesting that Goodell went through the emails himself. Nor is it remotely conceivable that Snyder (or his lawyers) went through these emails and was the source of the leak.

I do think that whatever the thinking behind the leaks and the actions, the direction came from the NFL. Which means that, at minimum, Goodell signed off on it. And the law firm is executing it from their database.

None of that supports your theory that law firms would never knowingly take part in a whitewash.

Seriously.

Gruden went down because Goodell wanted him to go down. The rest is being whitewashed. It is impossible to consider there isn't more incriminating stuff in those emails.

The WFT was trafficking cheerleaders, taking their passports, and taking pictures of them naked without their consent. That is what we know. Imagine what we don't know.

 

[ManicCompression]

Also, King isn't solely calling out the law firm, he's including the NFL/Goodell, which could've handicapped the firm from the start via a limited scope (and did handicap, it appears, by making the report oral rather than written). It's pretty obvious that transparency was not an intention of this investigation and the NFL wanted to control the flow of information to the public. That we have only Gruden's emails and not further information about Dan Snyder HIMSELF telling female employees to wear suggestive clothing and flirt with suiteholders - whether it's from emails or interviews - should indicate something about the priorities of the NFL here.

 

[Average Reds]

That is what we know. Imagine what we don't know.

That is also what I am confused about.

The stuff we already know about is horrific. I mean, stop and consider for a second that the team President was sharing emails with friends in the media that included nudes taken against the will of the women involved. You literally cannot have more damming evidence of an entitled, toxic culture surrounding the WFT, and Goodell has already stated (without sharing details) that this culture included Snyder.

Given this as part of the established record, the claim that we should infer that the lack of further disclosures probably means that Goodell found nothing strikes me as preposterous.

 

[mauf]

I have no idea what you are arguing, because I am not suggesting that Goodell went through the emails himself. Nor is it remotely conceivable that Snyder (or his lawyers) went through these emails and was the source of the leak.

I don’t think Snyder is the most likely source, but I don’t think it’s inconceivable. His lawyers might have had to go through these emails as part of their defense to various civil lawsuits. And even if they didn’t, a billionaire like Snyder might decide it was money well spent to conduct a shadow investigation in parallel to get advance knowledge of what the league’s investigation was likely to find.

Of course, Peter King floated the idea and cited “several smart people,” so it’s probably more likely that Vladimir Putin leaked those emails than Dan Snyder.

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10015200-king-several-smart-people-in-nfl-think-dan-snyders-camp-leaked-jon-gruden-emails

 

[Average Reds]

You are hitting on what I consider to be the main problem trying to interpret any of this stuff, which is that every figure involved is so loathsome that almost nothing is beyond the realm of possibility.

 

[lexrageorge]

Seriously.

Gruden went down because Goodell wanted him to go down. The rest is being whitewashed. It is impossible to consider there isn't more incriminating stuff in those emails.

The WFT was trafficking cheerleaders, taking their passports, and taking pictures of them naked without their consent. That is what we know. Imagine what we don't know.

Seems like Goodell is trying to keep Snyder out of jail. Confiscating passports alone should be enough to strip Snyder of his team.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Seems like Goodell is trying to keep Snyder out of jail. Confiscating passports alone should be enough to strip Snyder of his team.

Is there no legal troubles trying to fire an owner as opposed to forcing an employee to resign?

 

[Hoya81]

Seems like Goodell is trying to keep Snyder out of jail. Confiscating passports alone should be enough to strip Snyder of his team.

I don’t think Goodell is protecting Snyder more than he is loath to set the precedent that the league will seize a franchise for owner misconduct. He arguably should have forced ownership changes in Cleveland and Minnesota when Haslam and the Wilfs were caught red handed committing fraud. I’m still surprised that Kraft wasn’t forced to turn things over to Jonathan after his arrest.

Jerry Richardson’s issues seem fairly similar to what’s happening in DC, but almost no one remembers that because he put up the team for sale immediately and basically disappeared. Snyder clearly has no intention of going so quietly.

 

[simplyeric]

That is also what I am confused about.

The stuff we already know about is horrific. I mean, stop and consider for a second that the team President was sharing emails with friends in the media that included nudes taken against the will of the women involved. You literally cannot have more damming evidence of an entitled, toxic culture surrounding the WFT, and Goodell has already stated (without sharing details) that this culture included Snyder.

Given this as part of the established record, the claim that we should infer that the lack of further disclosures probably means that Goodell found nothing strikes me as preposterous.

That’s the thing I don’t get.
they burn Gruden…but the chances of Gruden having knowledge (if not actual evidence) of far worse things is pretty high. Seems like they might have created a dangerous loose end there.
And by worse I mean worse than just unauthorized and forced nude pics (which is pretty terrible).

perhaps their insurance is that they know the Gruden himself did some of those really worse things, so the only way he can bring down Snyder (and others) for trafficking/rape is by implicating himself, and they’re betting he won’t do that.

 

[lexrageorge]

That’s the thing I don’t get.
they burn Gruden…but the chances of Gruden having knowledge (if not actual evidence) of far worse things is pretty high. Seems like they might have created a dangerous loose end there.
And by worse I mean worse than just unauthorized and forced nude pics (which is pretty terrible).

perhaps their insurance is that they know the Gruden himself did some of those really worse things, so the only way he can bring down Snyder (and others) for trafficking/rape is by implicating himself, and they’re betting he won’t do that.

I doubt Gruden has proof of anything. Sure, Gruden could try to claim there are bad things that Snyder did, but it would most likely be considered hearsay legally, and his allegations would be easily dismissed as those coming from a scorned partner.

The NFL has made a decision to protect Snyder. The most likely leaker for the Gruden emails was someone with direct knowledge that decided to make their employer a bit uncomfortable.

 

[simplyeric]

I doubt Gruden has proof of anything. Sure, Gruden could try to claim there are bad things that Snyder did, but it would most likely be considered hearsay legally, and his allegations would be easily dismissed as those coming from a scorned partner.

The NFL has made a decision to protect Snyder. The most likely leaker for the Gruden emails was someone with direct knowledge that decided to make their employer a bit uncomfortable.

He may not have ‘proof’ in a legal sense, but Gruden wasn’t legally prosecuted, he was publicly burnt. He might have emails that say things, that could be used in the court of public opinion. With enough heat, there could end up being more public pressure for real investigation, one not bought by the NFL.
He might know the name of a victim who could bring even more serious charges.
He might have participated in things with others, and have eyewitness accounts to offer.

all of these would be at a risk to Gruden. If he decided to fight with fire, the NFL might be able to literally destroy him and send him to prison. And of course Gruden’s self interest may lie squarely in ‘lay low and try to rehab my image over time’.

That being said, it also would be a risk that the NFL is taking, gambling that Gruden won’t go Pyrrhic on them.

of course maybe he doesn’t have anything to fight back with. But given the culture, seems like he’d likely have something, if he wanted to try.

 

[lexrageorge]

He may not have ‘proof’ in a legal sense, but Gruden wasn’t legally prosecuted, he was publicly burnt. He might have emails that say things, that could be used in the court of public opinion. With enough heat, there could end up being more public pressure for real investigation, one not bought by the NFL.
He might know the name of a victim who could bring even more serious charges.
He might have participated in things with others, and have eyewitness accounts to offer.

all of these would be at a risk to Gruden. If he decided to fight with fire, the NFL might be able to literally destroy him and send him to prison. And of course Gruden’s self interest may lie squarely in ‘lay low and try to rehab my image over time’.

That being said, it also would be a risk that the NFL is taking, gambling that Gruden won’t go Pyrrhic on them.

of course maybe he doesn’t have anything to fight back with. But given the culture, seems like he’d likely have something, if he wanted to try.

Gruden did not work for Washington or Snyder; he was at ESPN. He may have been buddy-buddy with the GM there, but that doesn't mean he has any knowledge (other than hearsay) of what went really on. Of course, there is no way to disprove your hypothetical either. You're also assuming the NFL was the entity that deliberately leaked Gruden's emails.

 

[simplyeric]

Gruden did not work for Washington or Snyder; he was at ESPN. He may have been buddy-buddy with the GM there, but that doesn't mean he has any knowledge (other than hearsay) of what went really on. Of course, there is no way to disprove your hypothetical either. You're also assuming the NFL was the entity that deliberately leaked Gruden's emails.

I don’t think the nfl leaked the emails. I’m just speaking to their behavior after the leak.

Maybe I’m way off, but with all the terrible shit going on there (emails, islands, etc. and it’s nit just one team one owner), how many people have first person or second person knowledge of things?
I think it’s quite possible that Gruden knows some things, maybe not in the legally provable sense but in the ‘huge public scandal’ sense.

like, imagine if the NFL had really gone after Kraft when he had his thing. Kraft probably could reveal some damaging things…but he almost certainly wouldn’t want to.

Gruden =/= Kraft, I know. And yes I am speculating.

 

[Van Everyman]

So this shitshow--and the Pash emails in particular--has finally caused Congress to get involved:

A Congressional committee is seeking documents and information from the NFL regarding the investigation into the Washington Football Team and how the league handled it.

The House Committee on Oversight and Reform said Thursday it sent a letter to Commissioner Roger Goodell requesting by Nov. 4 all documents and communication about the probe into the workplace culture at the Washington Football Team.

“We have serious concerns about what appears to be widespread abusive workplace conduct at the WFT and about the NFL’s handling of this matter,” US Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney, chairwoman of the Committee on Oversight and Reform, and Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi, chairman of the Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy, wrote in the letter to the commissioner.

“Communications between league management and WFT leadership also raise questions about the league’s asserted impartiality in these investigations.”

I know everyone rolls their eyes when "politicians" start sticking their noses into this stuff, but I actually think it's proven pretty useful. MLB finally got off their asses and put a steroid testing plan in place. The NFL started taking player safety more seriously (if not as seriously as they could). And here, I think they have a chance to unearth some stuff that needs to come out about why no one was held accountable.

 

[Jimbodandy]

So this shitshow--and the Pash emails in particular--has finally caused Congress to get involved:


I know everyone rolls their eyes when "politicians" start sticking their noses into this stuff, but I actually think it's proven pretty useful. MLB finally got off their asses and put a steroid testing plan in place. The NFL started taking player safety more seriously (if not as seriously as they could). And here, I think they have a chance to unearth some stuff that needs to come out about why no one was held accountable.

Anything that increases the likelihood of Pash getting in trouble, even by 1%, is a good thing. Even if it's only some public embarrassment for a week or two, bring it on.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I have no idea what you are arguing, because I am not suggesting that Goodell went through the emails himself. Nor is it remotely conceivable that Snyder (or his lawyers) went through these emails and was the source of the leak.

I do think that whatever the thinking behind the leaks and the actions, the direction came from the NFL. Which means that, at minimum, Goodell signed off on it. And the law firm is executing it from their database.

None of that supports your theory that law firms would never knowingly take part in a whitewash.

Honestly you hire a reputable law firm BECAUSE they'll whitewash it. It's a standard practice, the list of top firms and/or top lawyers who are brought in to clean up a mess is LONG.

You hire them as "Independent" investigators, but you are the client, so they go through and take everything in the light most favorable to the client. Universities for example do it all the time, they identify some bad behavior, criticize it, then determine that in the future more controls should be instituted, but that nobody in the higher levels acted in truly bad faith... report done. So where someone looking from a prosecutorial stance might say... Dan Snyder is responsible for Bruce Allen, he can't let him do all this for years and pretend he wasn't in the loop, and the League should have stepped in when it was clear Snyder wasn't doing that... one protecting the client says "Dan Snyder probably should have more tightly monitored Allen, but he wasn't negligent, it's something we should improve in the future, but Allen is the only person responsible for his actions, and the league shouldn't be stepping into the team business without more hard evidence.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Honestly you hire a reputable law firm BECAUSE they'll whitewash it. It's a standard practice, the list of top firms and/or top lawyers who are brought in to clean up a mess is LONG.

You hire them as "Independent" investigators, but you are the client, so they go through and take everything in the light most favorable to the client. Universities for example do it all the time, they identify some bad behavior, criticize it, then determine that in the future more controls should be instituted, but that nobody in the higher levels acted in truly bad faith... report done. So where someone looking from a prosecutorial stance might say... Dan Snyder is responsible for Bruce Allen, he can't let him do all this for years and pretend he wasn't in the loop, and the League should have stepped in when it was clear Snyder wasn't doing that... one protecting the client says "Dan Snyder probably should have more tightly monitored Allen, but he wasn't negligent, it's something we should improve in the future, but Allen is the only person responsible for his actions, and the league shouldn't be stepping into the team business without more hard evidence.

Ted Wells!

Snyder or his people wanting to stick it to Pash is entirely believable. To degree Gruden’s people believe that NFL intentionally released this stuff to hurt him ( a reasonable belief given timeline) they also might be willing to.

To your point, I doubt it is the senior lawyer who is doing the leaking, but it also may be pretty indirect. Good DC white collar attorneys—-a number of whom are involved in this—-are very sophisticated about this and have lots of media contacts.

 

[mauf]

Honestly you hire a reputable law firm BECAUSE they'll whitewash it. It's a standard practice, the list of top firms and/or top lawyers who are brought in to clean up a mess is LONG.

You hire them as "Independent" investigators, but you are the client, so they go through and take everything in the light most favorable to the client. Universities for example do it all the time, they identify some bad behavior, criticize it, then determine that in the future more controls should be instituted, but that nobody in the higher levels acted in truly bad faith... report done. So where someone looking from a prosecutorial stance might say... Dan Snyder is responsible for Bruce Allen, he can't let him do all this for years and pretend he wasn't in the loop, and the League should have stepped in when it was clear Snyder wasn't doing that... one protecting the client says "Dan Snyder probably should have more tightly monitored Allen, but he wasn't negligent, it's something we should improve in the future, but Allen is the only person responsible for his actions, and the league shouldn't be stepping into the team business without more hard evidence.

If Snyder ordered the investigation, I’d agree with you. But Goodell didn’t need to whitewash anything — not investigating what happened in Washington was a perfectly viable option.

What was Goodell’s reason for digging into dirt he could’ve ignored? Seems to me that he either (1) sincerely cared about what happened in Washington and wanted to get to the bottom of it, (2) wanted to know what was likely to come out in civil litigation over the next few years, or (3) saw an opportunity to force Snyder to sell the team. I’m obviously joking about (1), but (2) and (3) seem like plausible motives. I lean toward (3) because it was foreseeable that this investigation would lead to the NFL becoming aware of things it would prefer not to know about, and that seems like an unwarranted risk just to get a sneak preview of the unfolding shitshow in Washington.

 

[Marciano490]

Ted Wells!

Snyder or his people wanting to stick it to Pash is entirely believable. To degree Gruden’s people believe that NFL intentionally released this stuff to hurt him ( a reasonable belief given timeline) they also might be willing to.

To your point, I doubt it is the senior lawyer who is doing the leaking, but it also may be pretty indirect. Good DC white collar attorneys—-a number of whom are involved in this—-are very sophisticated about this and have lots of media contacts.

Whenever I was on a big case I’d get Facebook/LinkedIn messages from thirsty reporters - even as a junior associate. Could just be some cranky second your or one that wants to feel cool getting headlines.

 

[Cellar-Door]

If Snyder ordered the investigation, I’d agree with you. But Goodell didn’t need to whitewash anything — not investigating what happened in Washington was a perfectly viable option.

What was Goodell’s reason for digging into dirt he could’ve ignored? Seems to me that he either (1) sincerely cared about what happened in Washington and wanted to get to the bottom of it, (2) wanted to know what was likely to come out in civil litigation over the next few years, or (3) saw an opportunity to force Snyder to sell the team. I’m obviously joking about (1), but (2) and (3) seem like plausible motives. I lean toward (3) because it was foreseeable that this investigation would lead to the NFL becoming aware of things it would prefer not to know about, and that seems like an unwarranted risk just to get a sneak preview of the unfolding shitshow in Washington.

It started as an internal investigation by WFT, after a number of Sexual Harrassment allegations, not investigating wasn't really an option, since that would get you killed in the civil suits. The league took over.... but didn't replace the firm that Snyder hired. They wanted to make it look respectable, but also not have much come out of it, which they did. In July they criticized the culture, fined them $10M, Snyder agreed to step away for a period, and they decided not to release the independent report (arguing that some of the complaintants didn't want to go public, which is nonsense, as you can list they types of behavior without listing the people, reports do it all the time). This stuff all leaked after the NFL was done with and hoping it had gone away, though the documents are also part of a number of current lawsuits between people involved with WFT.

 

[mauf]

It started as an internal investigation by WFT, after a number of Sexual Harrassment allegations, not investigating wasn't really an option, since that would get you killed in the civil suits. The league took over.... but didn't replace the firm that Snyder hired. They wanted to make it look respectable, but also not have much come out of it, which they did. In July they criticized the culture, fined them $10M, Snyder agreed to step away for a period, and they decided not to release the independent report (arguing that some of the complaintants didn't want to go public, which is nonsense, as you can list they types of behavior without listing the people, reports do it all the time). This stuff all leaked after the NFL was done with and hoping it had gone away, though the documents are also part of a number of current lawsuits between people involved with WFT.

I’m not seeing the motive to take over the investigation to make it a whitewash. There was zero chance a Snyder-controlled investigation would not be a whitewash. Why not let Snyder complete the whitewash, and let him take the fall if it was eventually exposed as such?

I’m not suggesting altuism on the NFL’s part, but whatever their reasons, it seems they really did want to know what happened, or at least what was likely to come to light.

 

[Marciano490]

They’re arrogant - they figured a whitewash from them was less obvious than one directly from WFT. Plus, if not for a whitewash they could’ve been concerned that horrible shit would come out, so they figured it was better to risk looking complicit in covering up horribleness that may or may not come out than have that horribleness definitely come out and damage not just WFT but the league too.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Whenever I was on a big case I’d get Facebook/LinkedIn messages from thirsty reporters - even as a junior associate. Could just be some cranky second your or one that wants to feel cool getting headlines.

Yes, and as you know there’s paralegals, document clerks, database admins, and the e-discovery company all of whom have all sorts of employees who don’t have the ethical obligation even the junior attorneys do. There’s a lot people who can get at at least some of databases like those….

 

[Cellar-Door]

I’m not seeing the motive to take over the investigation to make it a whitewash. There was zero chance a Snyder-controlled investigation would not be a whitewash. Why not let Snyder complete the whitewash, and let him take the fall if it was eventually exposed as such?

I’m not suggesting altuism on the NFL’s part, but whatever their reasons, it seems they really did want to know what happened, or at least what was likely to come to light.

Marciano covered it, but basically 2 things:
1. They wanted to lend it more "respectability"
2. They wanted control, so they wanted to know what was out there that could hurt them and decide how to handle it. Especially since in Washington you had a lot of competing interests, where the league has 1 interest... protecting the league. In Washington, if Snyder is making the call, he might hang out all of Allen's dirty laundry for example. The league was trying to keep as much of it under wraps as possible. Especially since they knew, that plenty of people in the league office (like Pash) had dirty laundry buried in there.

 

[ifmanis5]

With the Owners Meetings starting today, a reminder that even though this scandal spun off into the Gruden situation, the NFL is STILL refusing to release their internal report on the WFT.
View: https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1453054758256775172

The NFL is refusing to release a final report of its investigation into alleged misconduct in the Washington Football Team organization. A former Washington Football Team employee & one of the first people to speak up about the team's toxic culture discusses her experience.

 

[Marciano490]

I’m a bad lawyer - would the report be discoverable in a civil/criminal action?

Damn, I miss @dcmissle.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

View: https://twitter.com/LisaBanksKMB/status/1453164990999969793

 

[Cotillion]

View: https://twitter.com/LisaBanksKMB/status/1453164990999969793

View: https://twitter.com/dbeebestl/status/1453148374157467652?s=20


Relevant comparison dropped in that thread...

"I'd suggest you look at the Blackhawks report that came out today. Somehow the 4th most popular sports league in America knows how to use "John Doe 1", "John Doe 2".... to protect people when submitting a 107 page report about sexual harassment."

NHL figured out how to do it... I am sure Goodell can call up Bettman to get pointers on how to do it...

 

[Gunfighter 09]

Please talk ongoing Snyder investigation news here in this thread and let the WFT thread be about the team and not their piece of shit ownership or the League Office's ongoing quest to protect that miserable scumbag.

 

[Bunt4aTriple]

This is not the first summary, but a recent one. If you want it all in one place-expired peanuts to sexual coercion-this is pretty thorough:

View: https://twitter.com/damn_snyder/status/1452749553795543044?s=21


Not pasting text as its dozens of tweets/links.

 

[mauf]

I’m a bad lawyer - would the report be discoverable in a civil/criminal action?

Damn, I miss @dcmissle.

It’s sometimes murky whether and to what degree investigations are privileged. In this case, you’d have to know who the law firm’s client was (WFT, the NFL, or both) and what the motive was for conducting the investigation. WFT would have better arguments for work product protection than the NFL, as it’s not clear to me what potential litigation the NFL would have been prepping for with this investigation. It’s possible that Snyder’s lawyers anticipated this issue and agreed to cooperate with the investigation only on condition that no written report was prepared. (The documents they handed over would be discoverable in litigation anyway.)

Edit: I miss DC too.

 

[Van Everyman]

This is not the first summary, but a recent one. If you want it all in one place-expired peanuts to sexual coercion-this is pretty thorough:

View: https://twitter.com/damn_snyder/status/1452749553795543044?s=21


Not pasting text as its dozens of tweets/links.

A lot of that is pilfered from this brilliant compendium piece that Snyder sued the Washington City Paper for publishing: https://t.co/Uqx2XcZmSH

As with everything Snyder does, he lost.

Snyder famously got the ADL (or someone from the ADL) involved to defend him arguing that the cartoon devil’s drawing was antisemitic. He lost that too.

 

[joe dokes]

I know there's only 32 jobs, etc., but I do wonder what it might take for Rivera to walk and tell the Snyders to shove it.

 

[bakahump]

I know there's only 32 jobs, etc., but I do wonder what it might take for Rivera to walk and tell the Snyders to shove it.

No. He will convince himself that he needs to stay, keep afloat and right the ship for the Good people of Washington and their Beloved football team for the next ownership group. He will convince himself that there needs to be some continuity to the new Owners.......and that he as an (assumedly) untarnished head coach and Ranking member of the management team to be unblemished...will stay on despite his misgivings.

I say this with a belief he probably is a good guy who is not part of the scandal. BUT you dont walk away from 1/32 and certainly not from his contract. If he can be a bit of a martyr and hero all at once, all the better. He has a genuine opportunity to be "Marv Levy Type" buffalo Coaching and Franchise Icon because of this. Just stay the course keep putting the best Product he can on the field and comment publicly (and truthfully) how disgusted he is about it.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

View: https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1453403703097053194?s=21
My guy:

View: https://twitter.com/nickijhabvala/status/1453403353665478663?s=21


That jacket and backpack combo is badass.

 

[Van Everyman]

Big if true

 

[Mystic Merlin]

The vast majority of the owners are gonna fear the precedent of having a bright light shone on their affairs (including things they don’t know about but should or things that haven’t happened yet), so not sure this goes anywhere.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

An interesting tidbit from the Wickersham piece on the league meetings today:

Other topics during the owners-only session included a discussion about the emails that have been released recently concerning the Washington Football Team workplace misconduct investigation.

Davis, who accepted Jon Gruden's resignation after emails from 2011 showed that the coach had used racist, anti-gay and misogynistic language, asked Goodell why he had learned of the emails only right before they were made public.

Although Davis didn't accuse Goodell of leaking the emails, Goodell told the room that the league wasn't behind the leak. And Tanya Snyder, wife of WFT owner Dan Snyder, apologized to the room that the league has suffered as a result of the investigation.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32486646/los-angeles-rams-owner-stan-kroenke-angers-nfl-owners-financial-pivot-related-lawsuit-st-louis-move-sources-say


Here is a paywalled article from The Athletic that goes a little deeper. Davis found out on Thursday, a few hours before we did, and seems to have spent the weekend negotiating a settlement with Gruden's agent.

https://theathletic.com/news/raiders-owner-mark-davis-calls-nfls-handling-of-emails-a-timing-issue/AdItUZRTp7HX/

 

[Swedgin]

I’m a bad lawyer - would the report be discoverable in a civil/criminal action?

Damn, I miss @dcmissle.

I have not followed the story close enough to answer definitively. If the report was drafted by a law firm retained by the league for the league, then report itself is attorney-client and not discoverable. That is a large part of why organizations hire law firms to conduct these kind of investigations.

However, documents un-earthed during the investigation and conversations witnesses had with investigators would be fair game. Whereas, any memos documenting those interviews or analyzing the documents, would be subject to privilege.

 

[Marciano490]

I have not followed the story close enough to answer definitively. If the report was drafted by a law firm retained by the league for the league, then report itself is attorney-client and not discoverable. That is a large part of why organizations hire law firms to conduct these kind of investigations.

However, documents un-earthed during the investigation and conversations witnesses had with investigators would be fair game. Whereas, any memos documenting those interviews or analyzing the documents, would be subject to privilege.

Makes sense. I wonder then whether the NFL taking over the investigation may pose an issue. Arguably, they’re less likely to be facing litigation than the WFT was.

 

[soxhop411]

Former Raiders coach Gruden sues NFL, commissioner

Former Raiders head coach Jon Gruden, who resigned last month after racist, misogynistic and anti-gay emails surfaced, is suing the NFL and Commissioner Roger Goodell.

“Through a malicious and orchestrated campaign, the NFL and Commissioner Roger Goodell sought to destroy the career and reputation of Jon Gruden, the former head coach of the Las Vegas Raiders,” the lawsuit filed Thursday in Clark County District Court stated.


Grudent’s lawyers wrote in the 21-page complaint that he was “forced to resign.”

“When their initial salvo did not result in Gruden’s firing or resignation, Defendants ratcheted up the pressure by intimating that further documents would become public if Gruden was not fired,” the lawsuit stated. “They followed through with this threat by leaking another batch of documents to the New York Times for an October 11, 2021 article. On October 7, 2021, Jon Gruden was the head coach of the Raiders on a 10-year, $100-million contract. By October 11, 2021, he had been forced to resign.”

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/raiders/former-raiders-coach-gruden-sues-nfl-commissioner-2477005/?utm_source=onesignal&utm_medium=push_notification

 

[Marciano490]

That’s a wild complaint. When I saw the headline, I figured maybe they could try tortious interference - though that only really works when there’s no right to interfere, not when the plaintiff actually did something fireable. But negligence and negligent hiring and the like, that’s not even the kitchen sink, that’s the guest room toilet bowl.

It does lead a little credence to what a friend who played a few years in the league and now is on some NFLPA committees relayed - that campfire scuttlebutt was Goodell wanted Gruden gone because of the personal insults to him. That’s why he started with the racism toward the NFLPA head even though the Goodell language was more clearly damning, and only released the second salvo when Davis didn’t move immediately.

 

[soxhop411]

That’s a wild complaint. When I saw the headline, I figured maybe they could try tortious interference - though that only really works when there’s no right to interfere, not when the plaintiff actually did something fireable. But negligence and negligent hiring and the like, that’s not even the kitchen sink, that’s the guest room toilet bowl.

It does lead a little credence to what a friend who played a few years in the league and now is on some NFLPA committees relayed - that campfire scuttlebutt was Goodell wanted Gruden gone because of the personal insults to him. That’s why he started with the racism toward the NFLPA head even though the Goodell language was more clearly damning, and only released the second salvo when Davis didn’t move immediately.

Here is the full lawsuit
View: https://www.scribd.com/document/539211901/JonGrudenVsNFL-1#from_embed



Clickable link here

 

[Rusty13]

That’s a wild complaint. When I saw the headline, I figured maybe they could try tortious interference - though that only really works when there’s no right to interfere, not when the plaintiff actually did something fireable. But negligence and negligent hiring and the like, that’s not even the kitchen sink, that’s the guest room toilet bowl.

It does lead a little credence to what a friend who played a few years in the league and now is on some NFLPA committees relayed - that campfire scuttlebutt was Goodell wanted Gruden gone because of the personal insults to him. That’s why he started with the racism toward the NFLPA head even though the Goodell language was more clearly damning, and only released the second salvo when Davis didn’t move immediately.

The depositions of this lawsuit could be fun! Gruden obviously feels he has nothing to lose.

 

[jcd0805]

The depositions of this lawsuit could be fun! Gruden obviously feels he has nothing to lose.

Seriously is the NFL leaked those emails just to get Gruden but allowed WFT to just keep churning along Goodell deserves to get roasted in court.