Grade the Red Sox trade deadline

How would you grade the additions of Schwarber, Austin Davis and and Hansen Robles?

  • A (Pumped! They killed it)

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • B (Pretty happy. Did what they had to do)

    Votes: 132 29.2%
  • C (Eh. No First baseman? No SP?!)

    Votes: 200 44.2%
  • D (Really unimpressed)

    Votes: 104 23.0%
  • F (Should almost get fired)

    Votes: 10 2.2%

  • Total voters
    452

YTF

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B

They got a big lefty bat which was important. The rotation will have to make do with Sale. We have to get ERod right, somehow.

The other major key was not going over the limit. This puts us in play for big FAs this winter.
There's going to be a lot of holes to fill. With what's coming off the books, I'm not sure how many "big FAs" they'll be pursuing.
 

OurF'ingCity

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There will be major turn over after 2022. I suspect the Sox will contend in 2022 health provided, but after that we may be seeing the beginning of a more robust generational rebuild. With the window closing for this superb core (JD opt out 2021, X opt out 2022, Sale opt out 2022, Eovaldi, Vazquez, Hernandez FA 2022), Sox may be at THE END of this era rather than at the beginning of the next one (roughly speaking, I know there's more overlap than that in these things).

The Red Sox will not spend their way through the upcoming transition (they will spend some of course, but clearly want to build from the farm and the farm is no where near what it was under Cherington. It won't be ready with an X, Mookie, Devers, in two years ....(Casas may be the only one ...) .. so, there may be some real rebuilding of ML roster starting 2023. And that will require patience.
If all those people opt out, you think the Sox are just going to sit there and not use that money on other players? I agree that there may be a lot of turnover but that doesn’t mean 2023 is necessarily going to be a “rebuilding” year. It does put a lot of pressure on Bloom to make some key high-profile signings (something he hasn’t done or had to do yet), but he’s going to have to do that at some point.
 

curly2

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D

I don't think Schwarber is the coup some people here do, and in saying that I don't think anyone is expecting him to hit like he did in June. Good Schwarber would be fine. But he's been out since July 3 and doesn't seem close to coming back. He'll miss all these games with the Rays the next two weeks, and even if he's healthy in 10 days -- seemingly the best-case scenario -- it could take him a while to get his timing down.

I also hope they would get someone for the rotation who, even if he wasn't great, would allow them to skip Eovaldi in the rotation once in August and once in September. I worry about his workload.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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B.

With the knee-jerk emotional reaction to the lack of perceptible deadline activity subsiding this morning, I am pretty satisfied with the end result. This isn’t breaking new ground, but I think the grade boils down to whether an individual is a) truly bought into the long-term vision and Bloom’s ability to bring back and enhance Theo’s Player Development Machine and b) understands that the 2021 edition of the team is flawed enough where going “all-in” will set them back too significantly without gaining enough of an advantage this season.

“We did explore a lot of possibilities this week that would have taken us over,” Bloom said. “We just looked at it as something that we need to factor in. Was it worth the cost? Ultimately there were some things we explored that we certainly would have done that for. We just didn’t feel like it was worth the cost in talent, let alone the additional effects of going over the line.”

Given the caliber of players available — stars in their prime, future Hall of Famers who can still play — the Red Sox could have done more. Arguably, they should have done more. But Bloom’s been clear about his intentions, and he did not deviate. He addressed big-league weaknesses, without meaningfully depleting an improved farm system. His message to all those who wish he’d done more?

“I get it,” Bloom said. “Especially when things are flying left and right like they have been the last 48 hours, any fan would like to see their team right in the thick of it, and you love to see your team making big moves. We would, too. We just aren’t going to do that when we think those moves are running counter to our goal. … It might be fun today. You may or may not get what you’re hoping for over the last two months, but you certainly are going to pay the price for years to come.”
 

JM3

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What future is Chaim building towards? What prospect currently in the system outside of Marcelo Mayer is a potential impact player? I mean, Casas is cool but is he what you'd call an all-star caliber impact prospect? I wouldn't from his reports. What's the road to this team contending in 2023 without blowing past the luxury tax? Why are we blowing the rest of Xander and Devers time with the team building to a window that's not going to be open for several more years? They lucked into being better than their projections in the first half and have lucked into beating their pythag and BaseRuns and the response to getting this gift was to trade for an injured corner outfielder and try him at 1B, a couple of rando relievers (I don't know anything about Austin Davis but it's not like the Pirates are some paradigm of pitching development and the Sox seem to be good at identifying these guys, but he's 28 so how can I project him to be some significant add? I can't imagine a use for Hansel Robles and having the Twins PAY HIS SALARY DOWN is an embarrassment,) and to put their trust in MARTÍN PÉREZ and NICK PIVETTA for a playoff run. That sucks!
So...our major league team isn't that good & our farm system sucks...but we should have used our sucky farm system to fill 3 major holes in a crazy sellers' market?

Also confused why having the Twins pay a guy's salary so they stay out of the tax for another year is "embarrassing".

Not trying to pick on you specifically, but this seems to be what a lot of the sentiment here boils down to.

The Yankees gave up 2 guys for Rizzo who don't really make a dent in their system, but would be top prospects in ours, to rent him for a couple months. They could do that because they've built up that depth.

It takes time. Bloom has done an exceptional job taking the Sox from basically the worst farm system in the league to an almost average one, while also filling in the MLB roster admirably.

I understood the lack of patience when it had been 86 years, but I don't think I'll ever understand how grumpy so many Sox fans still are 4 championships later.
 

BringBackMo

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There is every reason TO GFIN this year and trade for reinforcements (in first place, high percentage to make post season, all-star central core will begin breaking up after the season and then more radically after 2022, relatively healthy, and with clear clear weaknesses). No better set of justifying circumstances than those.

There is no reason NOT go GFIN, EXCEPT ... they don't have enough depth in the system to have competed for the blue chip players being moved.

There will be major turn over after 2022. I suspect the Sox will contend in 2022 health provided, but after that we may be seeing the beginning of a more robust generational rebuild. With the window closing for this superb core (JD opt out 2021, X opt out 2022, Sale opt out 2022, Eovaldi, Vazquez, Hernandez FA 2022), Sox may be at THE END of this era rather than at the beginning of the next one (roughly speaking, I know there's more overlap than that in these things).

The Red Sox will not spend their way through the upcoming transition (they will spend some of course, but clearly want to build from the farm and the farm is no where near what it was under Cherington. It won't be ready with an X, Mookie, Devers, in two years ....(Casas may be the only one ...) .. so, there may be some real rebuilding of ML roster starting 2023. And that will require patience.

This is all to say: if not this year, when? Maybe next year, but you can never assume health. And if not next, could be a little while. So, good year to GFIN.

I think the better framing might be: This is precisely the kind of year to GFIN, but the Sox organization is just not deep enough to make that happen ....
You have mentioned before that we’re coming to the end of the “core.” What do you mean by that? All of the players that you mentioned are paid well, and the Sox have specifically reset the tax in order to be able to easily keep them or replace them with other good players who are paid well. (I very much doubt Xander is going anywhere, by the way.) As other have asked, do you believe that the Sox won’t spend, or that they will suddenly be unable to attract top free agents anymore? Is that the concern?

Meanwhile, Devers and Verdugo are two of our three most important players and they project to be here for years. And then there’s Duran plus Mayer, Casas, and other good young players in the minors that Bloom didn’t trade who will hopefully be part of the core. I’m genuinely trying to understand why you believe this year and next year represent the closing of a window. Is it just that some of our well-paid veteran players may sign elsewhere? Or is there something else?
 

BringBackMo

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What future is Chaim building towards? What prospect currently in the system outside of Marcelo Mayer is a potential impact player? I mean, Casas is cool but is he what you'd call an all-star caliber impact prospect? I wouldn't from his reports. What's the road to this team contending in 2023 without blowing past the luxury tax? Why are we blowing the rest of Xander and Devers time with the team building to a window that's not going to be open for several more years? They lucked into being better than their projections in the first half and have lucked into beating their pythag and BaseRuns and the response to getting this gift was to trade for an injured corner outfielder and try him at 1B, a couple of rando relievers (I don't know anything about Austin Davis but it's not like the Pirates are some paradigm of pitching development and the Sox seem to be good at identifying these guys, but he's 28 so how can I project him to be some significant add? I can't imagine a use for Hansel Robles and having the Twins PAY HIS SALARY DOWN is an embarrassment,) and to put their trust in MARTÍN PÉREZ and NICK PIVETTA for a playoff run. That sucks!
I’m choosing to interpret this post as a form of sophisticated satire.
 

YTF

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Generally speaking your core is always in a state of flux. Ideally there is more stability than there are moving pieces, but each year it's going to change. That's the nature of the beast. That said it's also idea that you have as many internal solutions as possible and that seems to be where The Sox are heading with their desire to build up the farm system, but that takes time. As fans, we're fortunate to have seen the success that we've enjoyed. Four World Championship teams in fifteen seasons under a very stable ownership group is something none of us have EVER experienced with this franchise prior the day that the Henry-Warner group came to town. They totally invested their resources into this team, the entire franchise, the ball park and the community. Believe me when I say I think that the management of this club is well aware of the flux of "the core" and IMO probably have a pretty good idea of how to balance it along with the budget they have for on field personnel and the vision they have for rebuilding the farm system.
 

curly2

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You have mentioned before that we’re coming to the end of the “core.” What do you mean by that? All of the players that you mentioned are paid well, and the Sox have specifically reset the tax in order to be able to easily keep them or replace them with other good players who are paid well. (I very much doubt Xander is going anywhere, by the way.) As other have asked, do you believe that the Sox won’t spend, or that they will suddenly be unable to attract top free agents anymore? Is that the concern?

Meanwhile, Devers and Verdugo are two of our three most important players and they project to be here for years. And then there’s Duran plus Mayer, Casas, and other good young players in the minors that Bloom didn’t trade who will hopefully be part of the core. I’m genuinely trying to understand why you believe this year and next year represent the closing of a window. Is it just that some of our well-paid veteran players may sign elsewhere? Or is there something else?
The bolded items are what I worry about. I hope Bloom ties up Bogaerts and Devers. I think he blew a massive opportunity to get a Devers extension done before this season. With the way Raffy is playing, I'm sure the price has gone up A LOT, and I hope Bloom pays it.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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What future is Chaim building towards? What prospect currently in the system outside of Marcelo Mayer is a potential impact player? I mean, Casas is cool but is he what you'd call an all-star caliber impact prospect? I wouldn't from his reports. What's the road to this team contending in 2023 without blowing past the luxury tax? Why are we blowing the rest of Xander and Devers time with the team building to a window that's not going to be open for several more years? They lucked into being better than their projections in the first half and have lucked into beating their pythag and BaseRuns and the response to getting this gift was to trade for an injured corner outfielder and try him at 1B, a couple of rando relievers (I don't know anything about Austin Davis but it's not like the Pirates are some paradigm of pitching development and the Sox seem to be good at identifying these guys, but he's 28 so how can I project him to be some significant add? I can't imagine a use for Hansel Robles and having the Twins PAY HIS SALARY DOWN is an embarrassment,) and to put their trust in MARTÍN PÉREZ and NICK PIVETTA for a playoff run. That sucks!
Why does every prospect in the system have to be an "impact player" to be worth holding on to? As maligned as he was, you do need your Chavis types who can be called up to fill in once in a while. Ideally you're building a system where that Chavis type is better than the actual Michael Chavis. Can't do that if you're strip-mining the operation to overpay for Jose Berrios or Anthony Rizzo every other year.

The future Bloom is building toward is to be in the position the Dodgers are currently in. One where they've got a bunch of home grown talent contributing now, (Urias, Seager, Bueller, Bellinger, etc), guys on the cusp (Lux) AND they've got the depth of talent in their farm system to trade for Mookie Betts 18 months ago and still have more than enough prospect capital to make a deal for Scherzer and Turner yesterday. Bloom makes a big splash yesterday to throw a couple patches on an overachieving and flawed team and he's got nothing left to address next season. Or the season after that.
 

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The bolded items are what I worry about. I hope Bloom ties up Bogaerts and Devers. I think he blew a massive opportunity to get a Devers extension done before this season. With the way Raffy is playing, I'm sure the price has gone up A LOT, and I hope Bloom pays it.
If such an opportunity had really existed, do you really think that Bloom wouldn't have taken advantage of it? These guys are pretty good at identifying massive opportunities.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The bolded items are what I worry about. I hope Bloom ties up Bogaerts and Devers. I think he blew a massive opportunity to get a Devers extension done before this season. With the way Raffy is playing, I'm sure the price has gone up A LOT, and I hope Bloom pays it.
There was an opportunity to extend Devers? Are you sure? I mean, sure, Bloom could certainly approach Devers and his agents with some offers, but they have to be willing to discuss it for it go anywhere, right?

Contracts are a two-way street. Devers still being on the year-to-year arbitration track doesn't mean that Bloom has blown anything. Have we learned nothing from the Papelbon and Ellsbury and Betts experiences? Not every player wants to sign a long term extension early in their career that more often than not end up costing the player potential earnings.
 
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I think the entire trade deadline that just concluded has to be viewed through the prism of the exorbitant prices and the seller's market that emerged. Bloom did not have anywhere near the assets to compete in that feeding frenzy.

Even the fungible mid-level reliever or starter would likely have cost far more than we could afford and still keep the farm recovery plan on track.

I think Rizzo was attainable, but it seems pretty clear that the Yankees intentionally blocked that. Grading on the curve of reality, I give Chaim a B.
 

BaseballJones

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I am not super high on Schwarber but definitely think his bat is an upgrade for the team. Always nice to have good left handed power available. Plus he adds OF depth. But he's hurt and his defense is meh. Still....a useful addition, IMO.

The relievers...not optimistic about them at all. They're just not very good is all.

Big miss not adding a quality 1b, and I wish they added a starter, but the price was pretty high for the SP. I mean, even with all these holes in the roster, they had the second best record in the majors. Other competitors definitely got better, so the last ~60 games will be tough sledding. But - and really, this is key - Chris Sale is returning. We do not know how good he will be but from all accounts so far he looks like CHRIS SALE. Which alone would be enormous. And the team is pretty darned good as it is, even with the flaws.

Enjoy the summer everyone. The Sox, for the first time in three years, are in a pennant race. It's legit and it's ON.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think the entire trade deadline that just concluded has to be viewed through the prism of the exorbitant prices and the seller's market that emerged. Bloom did not have anywhere near the assets to compete in that feeding frenzy.

Even the fungible mid-level reliever or starter would likely have cost far more than we could afford and still keep the farm recovery plan on track.

I think Rizzo was attainable, but it seems pretty clear that the Yankees intentionally blocked that. Grading on the curve of reality, I give Chaim a B.
How DARE you try to add perspective to this circlekneejerk
 

YTF

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There was an opportunity to extend Devers? Are you sure? I mean, sure, Bloom could certainly approach Devers and his agents with some offers, but they have to be willing to discuss it for it go anywhere, right?

Contracts are a two-way street. Devers still being on the year-to-year arbitration track doesn't mean that Bloom has blown anything. Have we learned nothing from the Papelbon and Ellsbury and Betts experiences? Not every player wants to sign a long term extension early in their career that more often than not end up costing the player potential earnings.
BINGO!!! We have no idea of the process or progress on any of this stuff. Do we know that Dever's and his agent were so eager to extend after his breakout 2019 season? That's the same season that saw Harper and Machado break the bank with $300 M plus deals. I mean buying out Dever's arb years looks to have been a smart thing for the Sox to do, but there's another team sitting across the table who might be willing to gamble that performance might warrant the highest possible arb awards and then there is a $350 M pot at the end of the rainbow.
 

YTF

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I think the entire trade deadline that just concluded has to be viewed through the prism of the exorbitant prices and the seller's market that emerged. Bloom did not have anywhere near the assets to compete in that feeding frenzy.

Even the fungible mid-level reliever or starter would likely have cost far more than we could afford and still keep the farm recovery plan on track.

I think Rizzo was attainable, but it seems pretty clear that the Yankees intentionally blocked that. Grading on the curve of reality, I give Chaim a B.
I think the Yanks saw legit need at the position as well. Voit's not been dependable this season and getting a healthy, dependable option at 1B and moving DJ back to 2B makes them better.
 

hair and cheese

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After hearing Chaim I'm really anxious to see how Cora uses Schwarber. He mentioned he was a top target and I took that to mean Cora wants him. Whether he picks up 1b or not, there are still 2-3 ways to get him in the starting lineup. Cora also has a whole new pinch hitting attack. It sucks he is hurt but I'll be comparing him to Nelson Cruz from the day he plays. Hopefully that is the double header in the Bronx on 8/17. Would not be surprised if Schwarbs was ALCS mvp or has a few signature hits in October.
Lefty and righty lottery tickets isn't Kimbrel but Chaim has earned the benefit of the doubt and the cost was minimal. Not having Chavis lingering in the system is a major win.

I was expecting competence at 1b and some filler for the rotation. Not all the needs were addressed but all 3 players could turn out to be nice supplements to a first place team that is waiting for Chris Sale. B was the best way I could vote.
 

Delicious Sponge

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I understood the lack of patience when it had been 86 years, but I don't think I'll ever understand how grumpy so many Sox fans still are 4 championships later.
Exactly right. And also those championships weren’t flukes but a result of terrific planning, talent evaluation and leadership from the front office.There was a time when a lot of fans really knew more about those things than the front office. Those days are long gone.
 

YTF

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Acknowledged. I didn't see 1B as a major need for them, but it doesn't hurt and keeps Rizzo from Boston. Win-win, I suppose.
The number of all or nothing swing guys has caught up to them this year. A career .370 OBP, solid defender, left handed bat with power should help. That the Cubs ate all the $$$ and they scooped him from the Sox certainly play into it.
 

billy ashley

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Boston is a good team overperforming to a degree. It's been a fun season, and I'm really optimistic about the future, but it's probably not a "push all your chips" in the middle type of season.

The team needed help at 1B and with SP, and RP. The market totally blew up, and it would have been impossible to upgrade significantly at all 3. Instead, they made some nice moves around the edges of the roster, and cleared some 40 man room. The biggest loss was a very interesting SP prospect who would have needed to be protected and isn't nearly ready for the majors. The type of who'd absolutely get scooped if unprotected in the rule 5but unlikely to provide any real value for a couple of seasons.

They got one of the better bats in the market for him, and added some shit to throw against the wall in the bullpen (Davis looks interesting).

It was a fine deadline given the context.
 

cantor44

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You have mentioned before that we’re coming to the end of the “core.” What do you mean by that? All of the players that you mentioned are paid well, and the Sox have specifically reset the tax in order to be able to easily keep them or replace them with other good players who are paid well. (I very much doubt Xander is going anywhere, by the way.) As other have asked, do you believe that the Sox won’t spend, or that they will suddenly be unable to attract top free agents anymore? Is that the concern?

Meanwhile, Devers and Verdugo are two of our three most important players and they project to be here for years. And then there’s Duran plus Mayer, Casas, and other good young players in the minors that Bloom didn’t trade who will hopefully be part of the core. I’m genuinely trying to understand why you believe this year and next year represent the closing of a window. Is it just that some of our well-paid veteran players may sign elsewhere? Or is there something else?

I mean the core most specifically of Devers-X-JD - an all-star core anchoring the middle of the line up. JD had an opt out after this year. With NL likely adopting DH he has reason to split (although if he keeps slumping maybe he'll think twice). X had an opt out after 2022 and likely will be seeking Lindor money and years (why shouldn't he?). Do you think the Sox will pay that?

Meanwhile, Sale has an opt out after 2022 as well. If he is fully healthy again and if he has a stellar year in 2022 he bolts, too.

In all of these cases the Red Sox would be wise to hesitate about extending these guys ... (JD coming down from peek, X may want one of those too long contracts, and Sale always an injury concern). Meanwhile, second tier core players Eovaldi, Vazquez, and Hernandez will also be FA. They will want money, though in these instances maybe resigning will be possible, though not certain. Though if Eovaldi keeps up his good stuff he will want bigger bucks, too.

Mayer will likely not be ready by 2023, though Casas likely will be. But the Sox have no players, beyond maybe Casas, with the potential to put up X/JD/Sale like numbers, and no highly ranked catcher in the system ...

I think the organization wants to avoid bloated ten-year contracts for stars ....

Vedugo and Renfroe are good role players you need to fill out a team, but they will not constitute an all-star level core like X and JD have ...

I have faith in the organization and in Bloom in the long run. But considering the state of the farm, the current organizational philosophy, and the contract status and ages of our stars, think the team is looking at a talent dip in 2023. From which they will slowly, healthily build back up.

In any event they KNOW they have an all-star level core now and those guys won't be around much longer (and are currently in first place). I was hoping Bloom would take advantage of that.
 
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cantor44

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I don't know much about prospects from other teams aside from the the very top players in the game ... this morning I was trying to get a read on what some teams gave up. Please correct me if anyone has knowledge to the contrary, but it seems the Giants gave up two prospects outside the top 100 to get Bryant ....

Makes me wonder .. wouldn't Bryant have been a preferable player to Schwarber all things considered? ... Was the Sox equivalent of Kilian and Canario too steep a cost?
 

BringBackMo

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He’s opting out. Boras is his agent. Everyone needs to understand this.

Sox will have to match any offer to bring him back.
And they’ll do what’s necessary to retain him, in my opinion.
I mean the core most specifically of Devers-X-JD - an all-star core anchoring the middle of the line up. JD had an opt out after this year. With NL likely adopting DH he has reason to split (although if he keeps slumping maybe he'll think twice). X had an opt out after 2022 and likely will be seeking Lindor money and years (why shouldn't he?). Do you think the Sox will pay that?

Meanwhile, Sale has an opt out after 2022 as well. If he is fully healthy again and if he has a stellar year in 2022 he bolts, too.

In all of these cases the Red Sox would be wise to hesitate about extending these guys ... (JD coming down from peek, X may want one of those too long contracts, and Sale always an injury concern). Meanwhile, second tier core players Eovaldi, Vazquez, and Hernandez will also be FA. They will want money, though in these instances maybe resigning will be possible, though not certain. Though if Eovaldi keeps up his good stuff he will want bigger bucks, too.

Mayer will likely not be ready by 2023, though Casas likely will be. But the Sox have no players, beyond maybe Casas, with the potential to put up X/JD/Sale like numbers, and no highly ranked catcher in the system ...

I think the organization wants to avoid bloated ten-year contracts for stars ....

Vedugo and Renfroe are good role players you need to fill out a team, but they will not constitute an all-star level core like X and JD have ...

I have faith in the organization and in Bloom in the long run. But considering the state of the farm, the current organizational philosophy, and the contract status and ages of our stars, think the team is looking at a talent dip in 2023. From which they will slowly, healthily build back up.

In any event they KNOW they have an all-star level core now and those guys won't be around much longer (and are currently in first place). I was hoping Bloom would take advantage of that.
OK thanks for responding. But why would we be expecting our farm system to necessarily replace JD and X? Maybe it will! But those players are already paid at the top of the market. Don’t you think that, if they leave, the Sox will just take their salaries and replace their production in other ways? (Reiterating that I very much expect them to pay Bogaerts his market value, and for him to re-sign after opting out.) Eovaldi is hardly a bargain, and his production shouldn’t be hard to replace on the free agent market given his salary. Vasquez is on a good contract, so replacing him isn’t as simple as reallocating his salary, but they can go cheap defense-first there for a year or two if needed and upgrade at 1B, RF, 2B, and so on. You’re not necessarily replacing individual core members at the positions they play, you’re replacing production. The Sox window, if anything, is just beginning rather than closing.
 

Detts

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X is a generational talent at SS. Opting out doesn’t mean you are leaving. It’s just a smart business move.
 
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As their fourth and fifth starter, it seems fine to me.
Particularly Pivetta, overall, has been more than adequate. Sale, Eovaldi, Houck and Pivetta (always assuming health) is not spectacular, but solid. If Rodriguez can turn it around, it becomes very good.

Richards is really the one that needs to go ASAP.
 

E5 Yaz

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X is a generational talent at SS. Opting out doesn’t mean you are leaving. It’s just a smart business move.
I'm just saying that until he actually opts out, it's possible he won't ... even with Boras as his agent.

Somebody Machadoes him between now and the end of 2022, for instance, he isn't going to risk it
 

cantor44

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Why does every prospect in the system have to be an "impact player" to be worth holding on to? As maligned as he was, you do need your Chavis types who can be called up to fill in once in a while. Ideally you're building a system where that Chavis type is better than the actual Michael Chavis. Can't do that if you're strip-mining the operation to overpay for Jose Berrios or Anthony Rizzo every other year.

The future Bloom is building toward is to be in the position the Dodgers are currently in. One where they've got a bunch of home grown talent contributing now, (Urias, Seager, Bueller, Bellinger, etc), guys on the cusp (Lux) AND they've got the depth of talent in their farm system to trade for Mookie Betts 18 months ago and still have more than enough prospect capital to make a deal for Scherzer and Turner yesterday. Bloom makes a big splash yesterday to throw a couple patches on an overachieving and flawed team and he's got nothing left to address next season. Or the season after that.
This is spot on ... Meanwhile, I think the team's position in the standings presented an opportunity to call a bit of an audible. Although the Sox couldn't do what the Dodgers did this deadline, looking at what other teams gave up, maybe there was a middle ground Bloom could have pursued between basically giving up almost nothing, to cleaning out the farm and setting the whole plan back years ...

Speaking tangentially now, not referring to your post Red(s)Hawks ... it seems the subtext of some of these conversations for some is "Bloom knows what he's doing more than you don't criticize" vs. "Bloom fucked up, what an idiot ..." Is it possible Bloom mostly knows what he's doing, but kinda whiffed a bit here (shades of Danny Ainge hoarding every draft pick)? Can we agree that he is an excellent man for the job who might sometimes make mistakes, even substantial ones?
 
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Is it possible Bloom mostly knows what he's doing, but kinda whiffed a bit here
It is quite possible, but we are not privy to the inside details nor can we know the future outcomes of deals made and not made. So it inevitably comes down to opinions, and your take is more than reasonable.

I also think it is important to remember that we don't know what constraints ownership may have placed on Bloom. Perhaps they see him as somewhat green and untested, and wanted to keep him on a short rein.
 
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geoduck no quahog

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Why didn't the Red Sox become sellers if they thought the buyer market sucked so much? Instead, they pretty much stood pat under the premise that the team as designed could compete for a championship, regardless of the competition improving across the board.

Obviously the fan base would have freaked out, but if there was ever a time to accelerate the Player Development Machine - it seems like last week was it. I'd have to look more closely at the non-Devers players that might have brought some good minor league talent back, but - if the Sox have a plan, they should probably be nimble enough to take advantage of an unusual opportunity to advance it.
 

Detts

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Why didn't the Red Sox become sellers if they thought the buyer market sucked so much? Instead, they pretty much stood pat under the premise that the team as designed could compete for a championship, regardless of the competition improving across the board.

Obviously the fan base would have freaked out, but if there was ever a time to accelerate the Player Development Machine - it seems like last week was it. I'd have to look more closely at the non-Devers players that might have brought some good minor league talent back, but - if the Sox have a plan, they should probably be nimble enough to take advantage of an unusual opportunity to advance it.

Being sellers while in first place is never a good move.

Ever.
 

cantor44

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And they’ll do what’s necessary to retain him, in my opinion.

OK thanks for responding. But why would we be expecting our farm system to necessarily replace JD and X? Maybe it will! But those players are already paid at the top of the market. Don’t you think that, if they leave, the Sox will just take their salaries and replace their production in other ways? (Reiterating that I very much expect them to pay Bogaerts his market value, and for him to re-sign after opting out.) Eovaldi is hardly a bargain, and his production shouldn’t be hard to replace on the free agent market given his salary. Vasquez is on a good contract, so replacing him isn’t as simple as reallocating his salary, but they can go cheap defense-first there for a year or two if needed and upgrade at 1B, RF, 2B, and so on. You’re not necessarily replacing individual core members at the positions they play, you’re replacing production. The Sox window, if anything, is just beginning rather than closing.
Yes, they will certainly replace some of these folks in one way or another. But my sense is that the organization doesn't want to overpay superstars. AND, the farm is decidedly not ready to replace JD and X by 2023, no. AND ... you just never know when you will have the confluence of players in their prime playing at this level with everyone healthy. That that is happening in 2021 is a "known known" (as a dude I don't like so much once said) ....The team after 2022 is an "known unknown" .... so might as well take advantage of the "known known" when you can, cuz you can't predict when it will be come around again.

I think yes, we have an overlap -as it always is - between what is now and what is coming. I'm simply anticipating a big gear shift after 2022 - a transition that will have more significant player turnover than after 2019. In fact, I full well expect that the only 2018 players to still be on the team in 2023 to be Devers and Barnes.

Will they eventually create a winner with new faces? YES - I really like Bloom and I'm optimistic long term. Might there have to be a step back first starting in 2023, for a couple years, given the particulars? I think so, probably ...That is, the rebuild everyone has been talking about, might be more assertively manifest then than now.
 

sean1562

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If the farm system doesn't produce any viable major league position players by the end of 2023, then yes, we may have some issues. Duran, Casas, and Downs are the position prospects that could ostensibly reinforce the team by the time I imagine we let Devers walk in free agency. However, if Houck is in the middle of breaking out and Whitlock can successfully transition to a SP role, then we have 2/5 of our rotation locked up very cheaply, allowing us to spend money in FA. Duran and Verdugo would also give us more payroll flexibility if Duran pans out. By the end of next season, we will have no idea who our top prospects are. The longevity of this All-Star core is giving us time to develop the guys in our system.
 

OurF'ingCity

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But my sense is that the organization doesn't want to overpay superstars. AND, the farm is decidedly not ready to replace JD and X by 2023, no.
If they lose X and JD (and/or Sale) to free agency, they are going to have a shitton of money to spend. Do you honestly think they wouldn’t use some of that to dole out a few massive contracts?

Basically every successful team is the combination of a few highly paid stars, a few cheap starters that are the result of the farm system, and some short-term role players. Bloom is trying to set the Sox up so they can get those stars AND have those cheap, cost-controlled players too.
 

brandonchristensen

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I can’t imagine we don’t use some money off the books to help boost X. Like Pedroia’s money comes out (13M I believe) and you can give 5-8 of that to X to make him happy. Then use the other 8-5 to put towards Devers. JDM is likely not around past next year - so that’s another 20M that we can get a couple of players (or Schwarber extension) that’ll keep us on the same path.
 

lexrageorge

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Gave it a C.

There were bigger upgrades to be had, but Chaim decided to defer due to the price. It may work out OK. I never expected Scherzer (unlikely he would have even agreed to be traded here), but did hope for a better answer at 1B or in the bullpen. There was clearly a priority placed on not gutting the farm system (understandable) and staying under the tax line (less justifiable given the team being in first place, but not Chaim's call either). None of the prospects that got sent out were top tier; Chavis clearly needs a change of scenery but also looks more and more like a classic AAAA player.

Grade goes to a D if Schwarber is limited due to the injury the rest of the season, as that would indicate a lack of due diligence on the injury by the Sox staff.
 

cantor44

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If they lose X and JD (and/or Sale) to free agency, they are going to have a shitton of money to spend. Do you honestly think they wouldn’t use some of that to dole out a few massive contracts?

Basically every successful team is the combination of a few highly paid stars, a few cheap starters that are the result of the farm system, and some short-term role players. Bloom is trying to set the Sox up so they can get those stars AND have those cheap, cost-controlled players too.
Yes, they will use some of that money no doubt for some pricey players. I understand the plan .... ALTHOUGH, I think they will avoid the 10-year contract variety, AND, those cheap cost controlled players from the farm won't be offering much of a yield yet in 2023 ....so, there may be a little window coming of not being there yet. The yield from the farm (to produce ML quality cost controlled players and to have a surplus for deadline trades) will be after the window closes on the current ML core. That said, if they want to compete in 2023 it will have to be VERY FA heavy, and I don't think they'll go that route .... a couple years after THAT, we may see the balance you speak of ....
 

cantor44

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X is going to get PAID. I expect the Sox will step up.

View attachment 43095

Xander is pretty confident.
But should they give X a Lindor type contract that would start in his age 30 season? Don't get me wrong, I love love love Xander. But that'll be a tricky calculous if he wants 8-9 years at 30/yr, that would take him from ages 30-38. especially given Mayer is in the system.
 

cantor44

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If the farm system doesn't produce any viable major league position players by the end of 2023, then yes, we may have some issues. Duran, Casas, and Downs are the position prospects that could ostensibly reinforce the team by the time I imagine we let Devers walk in free agency. However, if Houck is in the middle of breaking out and Whitlock can successfully transition to a SP role, then we have 2/5 of our rotation locked up very cheaply, allowing us to spend money in FA. Duran and Verdugo would also give us more payroll flexibility if Duran pans out. By the end of next season, we will have no idea who our top prospects are. The longevity of this All-Star core is giving us time to develop the guys in our system.
Good point about the rotation ...
 

Rovin Romine

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I give it an Incomplete, but provisionally a B.

The choices they made depended on the skill of their scouting/projection.

If, within a few weeks, we have:
1) An improved rotation with Sale (and Houck?) starting,
2) An improved bullpen with one (or more) of the current starters (and Houck?) in the pen throwing gas, and,
3) Schwarber playing a passable 1B while hitting at least league average (whether or not he platoons with Dalbec taking lefties),

then it's a B to A-. Good scouting, good discipline.

If all three don't happen, it's an F.