Grant “Corner Office” Williams

[Cesar Crespo]

I've been saying for awhile some other team is going to overpay him and he's gone. 4/48 is a fairytale number imo. Starts at 4/64+. This is also a guy who wants plays run for him like Jayson and Jaylen. While I'm sure he was somewhat joking, I'm sure he wouldn't mind going to a place where they run some plays for him and pay him more in the process.

I just can't see the C's paying him that number to be a bench player. Especially when they'll have to replace Al at some point. That is, unless they think Grant is the guy to replace Al. If that's the case, they probably don't mind paying 4/64+, but I don't think it is.

I suppose there's the outside chance he comes in to camp next season out of shape and is unproductive, costing himself millions. I doubt it, but he did eat himself out of a pretty big opportunity last year. If that happened, the C's could probably sign him on the cheap.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I've been saying for awhile some other team is going to overpay him and he's gone. 4/48 is a fairytale number imo. Starts at 4/64+. This is also a guy who wants plays run for him like Jayson and Jaylen. While I'm sure he was somewhat joking, I'm sure he wouldn't mind going to a place where they run some plays for him and pay him more in the process.

I just can't see the C's paying him that number to be a bench player. Especially when they'll have to replace Al at some point. That is, unless they think Grant is the guy to replace Al. If that's the case, they probably don't mind paying 4/64+, but I don't think it is.

I suppose there's the outside chance he comes in to camp next season out of shape and is unproductive, costing himself millions. I doubt it, but he did eat himself out of a pretty big opportunity last year. If that happened, the C's could probably sign him on the cheap.

You've been on that for a while, but didn't Grant acknowledge he came in 15-20 pounds heavier with the purpose of having more weight to body the 5s? I don't see anything he's done since that statement to make us question it. Which means he didn't "eat himself out of an opportunity." He made the mistake of beefing up, and it killed his quickness.

I think Grant is a perfectly cromulent Big Al replacement. It changes the dynamic of the roster a bit, but he's only 23. Last season, he was only comfortable shooting or passing when the ball was kicked to him in the corner. This season, hes added the ability to drive from the corner. Hes proven that he has the ability to expand his game and has more room for improvement.

Having a guy that can body 2-4, knows the system, can bury 3s, and compliments Tatum/Browns drive-and-kick game, it feels like a no brainer to pay this kid. Especially if he's still expanding his game.

 

[Saints Rest]

If you're a coach and you want to teach your kids how to play on-ball man-to-man defense, just show a series of possessions focusing on Grant Williams. Great defensive posture. Excellent footwork. Hustles. Uses his chest to square up on the ball handler. Doesn't reach. Plays strong and plays a LOT quicker than he looks like he can. Always in the right position. Anticipates well.

Basically, it's an absolute clinic on how it's supposed to be done. And he's been guarding the best players in the world.

This quote should be pinned to the top of this thread. Totally nails what GW has been doing.

I've been saying for awhile some other team is going to overpay him and he's gone. 4/48 is a fairytale number imo. Starts at 4/64+. This is also a guy who wants plays run for him like Jayson and Jaylen. While I'm sure he was somewhat joking, I'm sure he wouldn't mind going to a place where they run some plays for him and pay him more in the process.

I just can't see the C's paying him that number to be a bench player. Especially when they'll have to replace Al at some point. That is, unless they think Grant is the guy to replace Al. If that's the case, they probably don't mind paying 4/64+, but I don't think it is.

I suppose there's the outside chance he comes in to camp next season out of shape and is unproductive, costing himself millions. I doubt it, but he did eat himself out of a pretty big opportunity last year. If that happened, the C's could probably sign him on the cheap.

I don't understand the vagaries of NBA contracts, but can the Celtics structure a deal that is something like 4/$64, but looks like $10/$16/$18/$20 to balance out Horford next year after which Al comes back at a reduced number or is gone? Or does that only affect cash flow and AAV is all that counts?

 

[benhogan]

I don't understand the vagaries of NBA contracts, but can the Celtics structure a deal that is something like 4/$64, but looks like $10/$16/$18/$20 to balance out Horford next year after which Al comes back at a reduced number or is gone? Or does that only affect cash flow and AAV is all that counts?

You can look at TimeLords rookie extension as a guide on scaling up
Robert Williams salary:
2021-22 $3.6M then the extension kicks in
2022-23 $10.7M
2023-24 $11.6M
2024-25 $12.4M
2025-26 $13.3M

Grant will make $4.3M next season, any extension/RFA deal would kick in 2023-24 (when Al Horford may have left). So if it was 4/60M, year 1 would ~ be $13.5M

also of note, in the 2025 season, a new TV contract could kick in which would adjust Salary Caps across the league

 

[Saints Rest]

Thanks.

Based on this season, and the post-season especially, I think it is realistic to think of GWill as Big Al's replacement. And so be thinking that even at $16M/year, its at a discount to Al in this year and next.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

You've been on that for a while, but didn't Grant acknowledge he came in 15-20 pounds heavier with the purpose of having more weight to body the 5s? I don't see anything he's done since that statement to make us question it. Which means he didn't "eat himself out of an opportunity." He made the mistake of beefing up, and it killed his quickness.

That's possible. But he's struggled with weight and conditioning prior to that. If he got the advice from someone in the C's organization, I'd give him a pass. I don't know if that's been proven one way or another.

Considering its a contract year next year, he'll probably be in the shape of his life. He should be in a position to play 25-30 minutes on one of the best teams in the NBA. He gonna get paid. I'd rather not be the one paying him if it's north of TL money.

 

[benhogan]

Considering its a contract year next year, he'll probably be in the shape of his life. He should be in a position to play 25-30 minutes on one of the best teams in the NBA. He gonna get paid. I'd rather not be the one paying him if it's north of TL money.

I'm all for fiscal discipline and staying under the cap when they had little chance to win a Championship. BUT the JAYs have changed the equation. Grant does a lot of the defensive dirty work we don't want the JAYs subjected to while being a positive off-ball option on offense. Watching Luka give out because he isn't surrounded with the right role players is a good way to dent a Superstars value

Boston will need to act like a BIG Market team and pay the tax starting next season, out for multiple seasons. 538 and other services have the Celtics as the EC favorites at the moment, this team will contend as long as Tatum is healthy and here.

I doubt Wyc is in this for any Cap Mgmt style points, he wants banners and he'll need to shell out going forward. He's not going into Sarver mode. Brad created enough good value contracts to pay for a rotational piece like Grant (the bench/starter label is tired IMO)

 

[lovegtm]

In terms of cap %, a 4/64 extension would be about the same as Avery's 4/32 and Marcus' 4/52.

This assumes a $125M cap.

11-13% of the cap for a 23 year-old strong defensive role player who is an elite shooter at ok volume is really reasonable, and a no-brainer to sign.

I expect the Celtics to get a slight discount because going all the way to RFA is meh for the player, but that puts the final extension number at 55-60M I'm guessing.

The Celtics won't be clearing cap space, so I'd put the odds of signing him to an extension quite high.

 

[tims4wins]

I just have to think that Grant wants to be here for the foreseeable future. It's a young team, stars around his age, he seems to get along with everyone great, and now he's getting a taste of the playoff atmosphere in Boston. His career will be better in Boston than it will in most any other NBA city (assuming the band stays together). And no matter what the numbers end up - $48M, $56M, $64M, whatever - it is generational wealth for him. He seems like the guy who would place winning and enjoying his team over the bottom line dollars. He has already set himself up for more than he can have possibly dreamed when he was drafted.

This, of course, could be a 100% wrong take. But I'd be pretty stunned if he ends up elsewhere, unless the Celts decide to completely lowball him, which seems unfathomable given how he has played, and how much Wyc seems to care about winning.

 

[Just a bit outside]

I don’t know if it has an effect but Grant is one of the Vice Presidents of the players association. He May feel pressure on him to look for the highest dollar amount.

 

[SoxJox]

It's clear the decision to add weight last season really fucked with bis ability to stay in front of his man and maintain both strength and speed.

Granite indeed.

I thought the conversation last year was that they were concerned about is weight on the heavy side and that they wanted him to LOSE weight. Am I misremembering that?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I thought the conversation last year was that they were concerned about is weight on the heavy side and that they wanted him to LOSE weight. Am I misremembering that?

He's talking post rookie year off season. You are talking about after he gained all the weight. Different time periods.

I think, anyway.

 

[SoxJox]

Ach. Thanks for the calendar calibration.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Whoever's idea it was was a stupid one. He was already one of the strongest players in the NBA. No reason to gain weight.

 

[JakeRae]

I don’t know if it has an effect but Grant is one of the Vice Presidents of the players association. He May feel pressure on him to look for the highest dollar amount.

I doubt it for the simple fact that RFA is a known risk. Unless you are elite or someone who still has star upside, Grant is neither, there is very real risk of ending up significantly undervalued in RFA. Grant needs to factor in that downside and it impacts his value just like it did for Timelord last year. It’s also why a deal is pretty likely unless the two sides have very different views of how Grant will play next year. Extending young rotation players into their second contract is structurally almost always going to happen at a meaningful discount to their free agent market (the max breaks this rule for the best players).

We obviously don’t know Stevens’ preferences here with certainty, but we’ve seen him strongly preference continuity so far. His acquisitions have largely been players he knows fit with Tatum/Brown/Smart and he’s also targeted longer term deals and extensions (White, Smart, Timelord). It makes sense that they would continue to do so, especially since Stevens has also traded away his first two firsts, so there isn’t young talent sitting down roster to ask to step into larger roles.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I expect they try to lock him up this offseason when there's still a level of risk from Grant's perspective---his 3pt shooting might drop in future, etc.

I take ownership at their word on lux tax, and expect they'll be willing to make that deal with him in the 11-13 mil per range. He still only played 24 minutes a game this year---that will suppress the contract a bit. If I were guessing, 4/50 mil feels about right and wouldn't shock me if it is a little south of that.

Some comps on rookie extensions this past offseason:

Kevin Huerter, 30 mpg, 4/65 mil
Landry Shamet 21 mpg, 4/43 mil
Grayson Allen 25 mpg, 2/20 mil,
Wendell Carter 26 mpg, 4/50 mil
Time Lord 19 mpg 4/54 mil

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I expect they try to lock him up this offseason when there's still a level of risk from Grant's perspective---his 3pt shooting might drop in future, etc.

I take ownership at their word on lux tax, and expect they'll be willing to make that deal with him in the 11-13 mil per range. He still only played 24 minutes a game this year---that will suppress the contract a bit. If I were guessing, 4/50 mil feels about right and wouldn't shock me if it is a little south of that.

Some comps on rookie extensions this past offseason:

Kevin Huerter, 30 mpg, 4/65 mil
Landry Shamet 21 mpg, 4/43 mil
Grayson Allen 25 mpg, 2/20 mil,
Wendell Carter 26 mpg, 4/50 mil
Time Lord 19 mpg 4/54 mil

He's playing over 30 in the playoffs when everyone is watching. If he is betting on himself as a starter, it only takes one team. If he wants to play it safe, maybe.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/GlobeChadFinn/status/1522665051026595842?s=20&t=NpT4hOYUThTOvcsqd6Crzw

 

[Cellar-Door]

Zach Lowe and Kevin O'Connor were discussing it on the pod, they threw out 15-20M a year as his likely range

 

[djbayko]

You've been on that for a while, but didn't Grant acknowledge he came in 15-20 pounds heavier with the purpose of having more weight to body the 5s? I don't see anything he's done since that statement to make us question it. Which means he didn't "eat himself out of an opportunity." He made the mistake of beefing up, and it killed his quickness.

I think Grant is a perfectly cromulent Big Al replacement. It changes the dynamic of the roster a bit, but he's only 23. Last season, he was only comfortable shooting or passing when the ball was kicked to him in the corner. This season, hes added the ability to drive from the corner. Hes proven that he has the ability to expand his game and has more room for improvement.

Having a guy that can body 2-4, knows the system, can bury 3s, and compliments Tatum/Browns drive-and-kick game, it feels like a no brainer to pay this kid. Especially if he's still expanding his game.

Is this true? I don't remember anyone bringing this up, and Grant Williams being out of shape was a constant punching bag all of last season.

In any case, I'm not terribly surprised that he's broken out now that he's in shape (although perhaps to this degree). He was brilliant in flashes during his rookie season. Always had a great nose for the ball.

 

[NomarsFool]

Exercise science is obviously a science, but it’s also not something one can 100% predict the outcome. Grant is obviously a young guy, he/they tried to continue to get stronger and it didn’t work out the way they intended. It doesn’t mean he or they were stupid - it was a strategy that didn’t work. They corrected it, and now he’s reaping the benefits.

 

[benhogan]

Grant Williams said he gained weight to play center when he first got to the league & was sluggish playing the 4 at that weight last year. So he's lost 12 lbs this summer and plans to lose another 8-10 to be a better athlete & play the four more. Said he wants to be a "Baby Al."

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/10/3/22705925/grant-the-great-a-slimmed-down-williams-looks-to-bounce-back-in-year-3

We discussed it quite a bit last season. The turnaround from the Bubble was 6-weeks. GW/Marcus both looked chunky on their return

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Exercise science is obviously a science, but it’s also not something one can 100% predict the outcome. Grant is obviously a young guy, he/they tried to continue to get stronger and it didn’t work out the way they intended. It doesn’t mean he or they were stupid - it was a strategy that didn’t work. They corrected it, and now he’s reaping the benefits.

What does he gain by adding more strength though? Very little. They should have been going for agility from day 1.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Grant Williams said he gained weight to play center when he first got to the league & was sluggish playing the 4 at that weight last year. So he's lost 12 lbs this summer and plans to lose another 8-10 to be a better athlete & play the four more. Said he wants to be a "Baby Al."

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/10/3/22705925/grant-the-great-a-slimmed-down-williams-looks-to-bounce-back-in-year-3

We discussed it quite a bit last season. The turnaround from the Bubble was 6-weeks. GW/Marcus both looked chunky on their return

Did Smart's new contract have a weight clause too? Well, not really a clause so much as an incentive.

 

[benhogan]

Did Smart's new contract have a weight clause too? Well, not really a clause so much as an incentive.

https://247sports.com/nba/boston-celtics/Article/report-marcus-smart-boston-celtics-boston-celtics-body-fat-500K-bonus-contract--119934014/

not sure about the extension, but I'd guess so. Sounds like an easy hurdle

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Grant Williams said he gained weight to play center when he first got to the league & was sluggish playing the 4 at that weight last year. So he's lost 12 lbs this summer and plans to lose another 8-10 to be a better athlete & play the four more. Said he wants to be a "Baby Al."

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/10/3/22705925/grant-the-great-a-slimmed-down-williams-looks-to-bounce-back-in-year-3

We discussed it quite a bit last season. The turnaround from the Bubble was 6-weeks. GW/Marcus both looked chunky on their return

Just checking in now. This is it. Thanks.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'm not sure how that works unless I'm imagining things. Wasn't Grant noticeably bigger his 2nd year than his rookie year?

“My rookie year, I had to gain weight to play the 5. Then I never lost that weight. Now, I’ve lost 12-15 pounds. I’ve got another 8-10 to lose to be able to play the 4 more,” Williams said at Media Day. “I want to be like a ‘Baby Al’.”

 

[Eddie Jurak]

If the Celtics view Grant as Al's eventual replacement then I think they extend him. If they view him as only a bench player, then he plays out the string here and walks.

Jay King and Jared Weiss were on Kevin O'Connor's Ringer podcast (dropped overnight) and one of them pointed out that, during the regular season, the 2 NBA players who defended the most isolations were: 1. Al Horford, 344; 2. Grant Williams, 307. And both were effective iso defenders.

Since Al/Grant/Rob as bigs has been key to the Celtics best-in-league defense, and Grant has a developing offensive game that can complement Tatum and Brown, I think they pay him.

 

[lovegtm]

If the Celtics view Grant as Al's eventual replacement then I think they extend him. If they view him as only a bench player, then he plays out the string here and walks.

Jay King and Jared Weiss were on Kevin O'Connor's Ringer podcast (dropped overnight) and one of them pointed out that, during the regular season, the 2 NBA players who defended the most isolations were: 1. Al Horford, 344; 2. Grant Williams, 307. And both were effective iso defenders.

Since Al/Grant/Rob as bigs has been key to the Celtics best-in-league defense, and Grant has a developing offensive game that can complement Tatum and Brown, I think they pay him.

If you think an extension has positive value, you absolutely don't just let him play out the string, regardless of future plans for him.

This isn't 2017 or 2019 when the team let guys walk because it was clearing space.

The only way, imo, that Grant doesn't get re-signed is if he refuses to extend for less than 4/72 or something like that, where it's not clear the contract would be an asset.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

If you think an extension has positive value, you absolutely don't just let him play out the string, regardless of future plans for him.

I'm not saying the Celtics won't make him an offer - they obviously will. I just think the only way he agrees is if they pay him starter money.

 

[benhogan]

I'm not saying the Celtics won't make him an offer - they obviously will. I just think the only way he agrees is if they pay him starter money.

Grant's set up to get at least a TL-sized extension.

If that's what you mean by "starter" money.

Derrick White doesn't start and the C's gave up assets for a guy that got a 4yr/$70M ext

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Grant's set up to get at least a TL-sized extension.

If that's what you mean by "starter" money.

Derrick White doesn't start and the C's gave up assets for a guy that got a 4yr/$70M ext

I think Grant would laugh at Rob money. (Were I his agent, I’d tell him to laugh.)

 

[benhogan]

I think Grant would laugh at Rob money. (Were I his agent, I’d tell him to laugh.)

indeed, these playoffs have been a Grant printing press. Maybe "starter" label is less important than we think

I'm old enough to remember people scoffing at @lovegtm suggestion of TL style extension just a few months ago

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Derrick White doesn't start and the C's gave up assets for a guy that got a 4yr/$70M ext

The thing about White is that he provides flexibility. His contract, and Marcus Smart's, are both moveable. White is not starting now, but he is a starting caliber NBA combo guard.

Grant is in a similar place. But I doubt the C's offer him a White-type deal if they don't see him as Al's heir apparent. (Unless they are throwing caution to the wind and willing to pay whatever luxury tax they have to - not just willing to go above the line but willing to oblitterate the line.)

 

[benhogan]

The thing about White is that he provides flexibility. His contract, and Marcus Smart's, are both moveable. White is not starting now, but he is a starting caliber NBA combo guard.

Grant is in a similar place. But I doubt the C's offer him a White-type deal if they don't see him as Al's heir apparent. (Unless they are throwing caution to the wind and willing to pay whatever luxury tax they have to - not just willing to go above the line but willing to oblitterate the line.)

Anyone that doesn't see Grant as the team's future 4 I'd suggest taking up baseball as a fan, because basketball is too confusing.

 

[chilidawg]

Anyone that doesn't see Grant as the team's future 4 I'd suggest taking up baseball as a fan, because basketball is too confusing.

So we're not allowed to have differing opinions any more? What a shitty post.

 

[benhogan]

So we're not allowed to have differing opinions any more? What a shitty post.

sarcasm meter turned off?

I mean 99.9% of the Board and 100% of the NBA media have gone POSITIVE on Granite...It's not a stretch to imagine a 23yr old Grant Williams, who can guard Jokic and Giannis, is a part of the Celtics future when a 35yr old Al Horford eventually steps away.

 

[lexrageorge]

View: https://twitter.com/GlobeChadFinn/status/1522665051026595842?s=20&t=NpT4hOYUThTOvcsqd6Crzw

Seems like Ime and Grant are having fun with the "calling plays for me" meme.

If last season's issues were truly due to a misguided offseason training regimen, I don't expect them to factor into the Celtics' decision making regarding an extension. It happened, it was corrected, and it's over. If they were due to conditioning, then I do hope the team does enough due diligence to ensure that there is no repeat in the future before going into the stratosphere for an extension.

 

[amarshal2]

I'm not saying the Celtics won't make him an offer - they obviously will. I just think the only way he agrees is if they pay him starter money.

I dunno about this. He’s somewhat a specialized player. Not a true 4. There’s a reason nobody is writing his name in ink as the Al replacement. And I bet most competitive teams in the league view him that way: as one of the top rotation players in the league but not an every game starter. I think the extension discussion should reflect that. If there’s an uncompetitive team that makes a huge offer and Grant decides to take it, so be it. But I don’t think that’s the Celtics math.

 

[Saints Rest]

Grant's set up to get at least a TL-sized extension.

If that's what you mean by "starter" money.

Derrick White doesn't start and the C's gave up assets for a guy that got a 4yr/$70M ext

I would expect the Celts' opening offer to match TL's and Grant's opening to look like DW's. Hopefully that allows them o settle in the middle, perhaps around 4/time $65-ish.
In my ideal world, next season has Al at $26.5 (having hoisted a banner!) and GW at $4.3 ($30.8 combined).
Then, in the following season, it's something like GW at $16 and Al at $15.

 

[benhogan]

I would expect the Celts' opening offer to match TL's and Grant's opening to look like DW's. Hopefully that allows them o settle in the middle, perhaps around 4/time $65-ish.
In my ideal world, next season has Al at $26.5 (having hoisted a banner!) and GW at $4.3 ($30.8 combined).
Then, in the following season, it's something like GW at $16 and Al at $15.

Yea, that would be fair for the players (Horford/Grant) and team (banner #18/kick-ass roster/taxpayer).

Grant gets security. Horford prolongs his career in a place he has thrived.

JAYs should be happy and that's important for long term success

 

[RetractableRoof]

I dunno about this. He’s somewhat a specialized player. Not a true 4. There’s a reason nobody is writing his name in ink as the Al replacement. And I bet most competitive teams in the league view him that way: as one of the top rotation players in the league but not an every game starter. I think the extension discussion should reflect that. If there’s an uncompetitive team that makes a huge offer and Grant decides to take it, so be it. But I don’t think that’s the Celtics math.

You have a player who has shown some ability to guard Durant, GA, and the Joker (and I would also hope for him to show better against Embid going forward). All players you are going to see in the playoffs (Joker only if he gets there and given year). I would think those potential 8-14+ games in the playoffs for each of the next 2-4 years would be worth whatever premium it would take for the Cs to simply not take the chance on being outbid. I mean if the Cs ownership can't pay the luxury tax while the window is open - then sell the team. This has been a 5-6+ year process of getting the team to the threshold - it's not the time to cheap out on a player that will be an rotational anchor (or more) going forward. Any team expecting to face the superstar group mentioned (already in the contention window) would pick him up - including teams with one of those stars. IMO MIL picked up Semi just to keep him away from GA.

The issue for Grant (as you state) is that he can't be a starter against all teams - the superstars mentioned above don't require off the charts athleticism to guard them the way he does. He is a solid team defender but IMO where he excels is providing a unique 'look' when defending the superstars - they can't go through him as they do with other players and they have to work to go around because he competently moves his feet laterally to defend it. There is no shutdown per se, but his skills make them grind it out. Where Grant will show weakness is with ball movement teams and having his quick twitch ability to react tested. In that moment, is his BB IQ high enough to compensate for not being able to physically excel (which IMO was the greatest impact of him bulking up to be a small ball center, it made him even slower in those reaction moments). We'll see impressive things from Grant next year if he comes in another 10 pounds lighter with a tad bit more... quickness. I don't know if explosion is the better word there or not.

 

[Saints Rest]

You can look at TimeLords rookie extension as a guide on scaling up
Robert Williams salary:
2021-22 $3.6M then the extension kicks in
2022-23 $10.7M
2023-24 $11.6M
2024-25 $12.4M
2025-26 $13.3M

Grant will make $4.3M next season, any extension/RFA deal would kick in 2023-24 (when Al Horford may have left). So if it was 4/60M, year 1 would ~ be $13.5M

also of note, in the 2025 season, a new TV contract could kick in which would adjust Salary Caps across the league

Followup to my original question: Does the NBA count cap spending based on AAV or on actual in-year spending? IOW, next year will Time Lord count at $10.7M or $12M (the 4 year average)?

Also, can a player's salary be scaled down? If so, are there rules on how such a reduction plan can go? I'm thinking if Al is at $26.5 next year, could they tear up that contract and do something like $25, $20, $15, $10? Or would they have to wait for this contract o expire and then try to sign him fresh at something like an decensding salary of maybe $18, 15, 12? And then the same question applies as to cap calcs?

 

[lexrageorge]

Followup to my original question: Does the NBA count cap spending based on AAV or on actual in-year spending? IOW, next year will Time Lord count at $10.7M or $12M (the 4 year average)?

Also, can a player's salary be scaled down? If so, are there rules on how such a reduction plan can go? I'm thinking if Al is at $26.5 next year, could they tear up that contract and do something like $25, $20, $15, $10? Or would they have to wait for this contract o expire and then try to sign him fresh at something like an decensding salary of maybe $18, 15, 12? And then the same question applies as to cap calcs?

Annual salary raises or decreases in NBA contracts are limited to 5% or 8% of the first year base salary. So it's not all that easy to front- or back-load a contract like you see in the NFL.

Robert Williams' salary cap hit will be his annual salary in that season, so $10.7M next season.

Horford's contract is a bit of an exception, as he's only guaranteed $14M of the $26.5M, with remainder becoming guaranteed in January. The rules for renegotiating and extending contracts in the NBA are complex, and I believe in most cases the existing contract's base salary is used as a baseline for any increase/decrease in salary. I know there is a 120% max increase in salary in any extension (aside from max/supermax contracts), but I don't know if the 8% rule applies to salary decreases during the first year of an extension.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The issue for Grant (as you state) is that he can't be a starter against all teams - the superstars mentioned above don't require off the charts athleticism to guard them the way he does. He is a solid team defender but IMO where he excels is providing a unique 'look' when defending the superstars - they can't go through him as they do with other players and they have to work to go around because he competently moves his feet laterally to defend it. There is no shutdown per se, but his skills make them grind it out. Where Grant will show weakness is with ball movement teams and having his quick twitch ability to react tested. In that moment, is his BB IQ high enough to compensate for not being able to physically excel (which IMO was the greatest impact of him bulking up to be a small ball center, it made him even slower in those reaction moments). We'll see impressive things from Grant next year if he comes in another 10 pounds lighter with a tad bit more... quickness. I don't know if explosion is the better word there or not.

This feels over the top negative. More isolations against Grant than any other player in the NBA this year besides Horford, and he generally did well in those matchups.

 

[RetractableRoof]

This feels over the top negative. More isolations against Grant than any other player in the NBA this year besides Horford, and he generally did well in those matchups.

I have no negative view on Grant Williams. Just my view on him - which I fully expect won't be shared by everyone. At this point I view him as a stud rotation player (with peak value in the scenarios described), and occasional starter. Maybe next year 10 pounds or so lighter he progresses. I just don't see him as a bankable starter against every team yet, YMMV.

 

[nighthob]

I don't understand the vagaries of NBA contracts, but can the Celtics structure a deal that is something like 4/$64, but looks like $10/$16/$18/$20 to balance out Horford next year after which Al comes back at a reduced number or is gone? Or does that only affect cash flow and AAV is all that counts?

Grant’s extension only kicks in after Horford’s deal ends. Given that they only have one max deal there’s plenty of room for another reasonable deal.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I have no negative view on Grant Williams. Just my view on him - which I fully expect won't be shared by everyone. At this point I view him as a stud rotation player (with peak value in the scenarios described), and occasional starter. Maybe next year 10 pounds or so lighter he progresses. I just don't see him as a bankable starter against every team yet, YMMV.

Yeah. He has too many games where he's a non factor. I wouldn't offer more than 4/40 but I digress.

 

[Auger34]

Yeah. He has too many games where he's a non factor. I wouldn't offer more than 4/40 but I digress.

Id go a higher than 4/40 (I think 4/50 would be my max) but what this series has done is end all talk that he’s anywhere near ready to be a Horford replacement.
Grant is just not close to the playmaker and passer that Horford is. He’s a 3 and D guy with the ability to bring up the ball in a pinch

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

Id go a higher than 4/40 (I think 4/50 would be my max) but what this series has done is end all talk that he’s anywhere near ready to be a Horford replacement.
Grant is just not close to the playmaker and passer that Horford is. He’s a 3 and D guy with the ability to bring up the ball in a pinch

Agreed. Frankly, even considering Grant Williams as a potential Horford replacement is disrespectful to Horford. Grant Williams is much closer to PJ Tucker than he is to Al Horford. We'll be much better off if he realizes that. Hopefully before tomorrow night.