Grant “Corner Office” Williams

Jimbodandy

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Every Celtic fan is cheering for Grant to play well, succeed, and get paid.

We do critique/debate the performance of Celtic players, coaches, rotations, wins/losses, trades, FA, front office moves, salary cap, RFA, the 15th man, roster spots, two-ways, etc etc etc which is kind of the point of SoSH/MBPC.

Grant is no different. He is the only key player that isn't locked up past this season, so his RFA is of interest. I like Grant a lot (my header is a giveaway) but definitely try not to let that obfuscate what Brad/Zarren are doing in RFA.

You can be a Celtics fan and still criticize different aspects of the team/players, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Agreed. I'm certainly not calling for a moratorium on criticism or second guessing. I'm agreeing with DBMH that people do seem to pigpile on some and not others when they fall. Tbb makes a good point that Grant brings some of that with his verbosity. I think that it's "see I was right about that guy" for some people/players. It's hard getting past our own preconceived notions sometimes.
 

kfoss99

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I've been peeved with Grant's behavior this year, like the rest of us. And certainly, didn't like him clanking two free throws.

But we need to wish him the best. He's an important rotational player for the Celtics. We probably aren't winning a championship if he plays poorly.

It reminds me of all the hate David Price got. He was needed to win the 2018 World Series. Grant as our best bench big is needed to win. Who cares if he wants $20 million?

We can all hope he's just in a funk and he plays better down the stretch and into the playoffs.
 

Auger34

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I've been peeved with Grant's behavior this year, like the rest of us. And certainly, didn't like him clanking two free throws.

But we need to wish him the best. He's an important rotational player for the Celtics. We probably aren't winning a championship if he plays poorly.

It reminds me of all the hate David Price got. He was needed to win the 2018 World Series. Grant as our best bench big is needed to win. Who cares if he wants $20 million?

We can all hope he's just in a funk and he plays better down the stretch and into the playoffs.
This thread has gone down a weird rabbit hole but I legitimately think that everyone on this board is rooting for Grant to be the best possible player he can be. I actually have 0 doubts about that.
If Grant comes out tonight and goes 0-8 with 6 turnovers and someone posts “Tonight is why I have been saying I don’t think Grant deserves $20 million” thag doesn’t mean said poster was rooting for him to have a bad night.
All cards on the table, Grant annoys the fuck out of me. He’s probably my least favorite player on the team but I want him to go out there and ball out and earn even more than a $20M contract. I’ve posted a few mea culpas about him across threads because he’s already exceeded what I thought he would be and I’ve never once rooted for him to miss a shot or fuck up and I can’t imagine anyone would do that
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Agreed. I'm certainly not calling for a moratorium on criticism or second guessing. I'm agreeing with DBMH that people do seem to pigpile on some and not others when they fall. Tbb makes a good point that Grant brings some of that with his verbosity. I think that it's "see I was right about that guy" for some people/players. It's hard getting past our own preconceived notions sometimes.
This is a messageboard and people can discuss whatever they want, subject to community rules.

I was simply noting that some of the commentary around him appears to almost take pleasure in his struggles. We have plenty of reasons why as listed above - some of it just feels a extra to me, especially for a rotational player.

I may not like all the players on the Cs roster but I want them all to be amazing while playing for them. Its not a moral failing if they don't for me - its really just mean reversion - YRMV.
 

benhogan

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This thread has gone down a weird rabbit hole but I legitimately think that everyone on this board is rooting for Grant to be the best possible player he can be. I actually have 0 doubts about that.
If Grant comes out tonight and goes 0-8 with 6 turnovers and someone posts “Tonight is why I have been saying I don’t think Grant deserves $20 million” thag doesn’t mean said poster was rooting for him to have a bad night.
All cards on the table, Grant annoys the fuck out of me. He’s probably my least favorite player on the team but I want him to go out there and ball out and earn even more than a $20M contract. I’ve posted a few mea culpas about him across threads because he’s already exceeded what I thought he would be and I’ve never once rooted for him to miss a shot or fuck up and I can’t imagine anyone would do that
100% agree. I've rebooted many a stance with the mea culpa. Changing a preconceived notion can be a poster's best friend.
 

Auger34

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This is a messageboard and people can discuss whatever they want, subject to community rules.

I was simply noting that some of the commentary around him appears to almost take pleasure in his struggles. We have plenty of reasons why as listed above - some of it just feels a extra to me, especially for a rotational player.

I may not like all the players on the Cs roster but I want them all to be amazing while playing for them. Its not a moral failing if they don't for me - its really just mean reversion - YRMV.
Honest question, where have you seen people take pleasure in his struggles? I am on this board a lot and I can’t think of anyone posting anything thats like a celebration of him sucking
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Honest question, where have you seen people take pleasure in his struggles? I am on this board a lot and I can’t think of anyone posting anything thats like a celebration of him sucking
We don't need to get into a debate on how I perceive the tone in others posts beyond my initial thoughts- it really has nothing to do with basketball. You don't agree with me and that's entirely fine. You may well be correct. FWIW, it wasn't @ anyone specific either.

I am simply noting that regardless of how a Cs fan feels about Grant, we should want him to do well this year, even if we think he isn't worth another contract etc. It just doesn't feel like that's the case in some instances.
 
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jasail

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If I can be an arm chair shrink to Celtics fans, I think part of the reason we almost fetishize Grant's struggles is because he is a frustrating personality. As @tbb345 points out, Grant talks/complains/gestures too much. He hasn't earned that type of latitude and even if he was a All-Star type player, it's not something Bosotn loves (see Tatum, Jayson). It hasn't endured him to the fan base, so when he screws up he gets hammered more for it.

Going into the season, we all get excited about what young players worked on during the offseason. Generally, this means some sort of basketball skill they are lacking. However, above everything else, coming into the season I wanted Grant to focus on the things he could control on the court. I'm a natural hot head and I spent most of my adult life learning how to maintain my focus and accept things out of my control. It's a skill. Some people are innately better at it than others and those of us who stink at it need to constantly work at it. My frustration with Grant is that he doesn't seem to be working at it.

Look at Marcus as a counter example. He was a maniac early on, but he worked on it. He's now a team leader and ambassador to the officials and he's maintained that fire in the belly.
 

Jimbodandy

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100% agree. I've rebooted many a stance with the mea culpa. Changing a preconceived notion can be a poster's best friend.
I could wallpaper a forum in here with my mea culpas. I agree that evolution is good and was perhaps overly snarky about how we don't have enough of that (point taken, another possible growth opportunity).

I hope that nobody is feeling attacked on this topic. I think that DeJesus is right that folks are sometimes quick to express non-surprise when a player doesn't surprise them. That doesn't seem like a controversial take. But I think that most of us have done that too, so maybe it's not a great topic of conversation. I still dunk on Dragan Bender when his name comes up and have nothing against the kid. C'est la vie.
 

Auger34

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I could wallpaper a forum in here with my mea culpas. I agree that evolution is good and was perhaps overly snarky about how we don't have enough of that (point taken, another possible growth opportunity). I’m

I hope that nobody is feeling attacked on this topic. I think that DeJesus is right that folks are sometimes quick to express non-surprise when a player doesn't surprise them. That doesn't seem like a controversial take. But I think that most of us have done that too, so maybe it's not a great topic of conversation. I still dunk on Dragan Bender when his name comes up and have nothing against the kid. C'est la vie.
I wanted to respond one more time to this and then i am going to leave it alone. I definitely don’t feel attacked (I would also hope no one else does either) I just think the idea that posters here are rooting for Grant to fail is pretty off base and I think it’s important to draw a distinction between criticizing a player and rooting for his failure.

I am repeating myself but Grant seems to act like a very annoying little brother. I mean, it’s easy to see that the coaching staff and his teammates get to points where they’ve just had it with him. Remember last year the “April Fools” joke was Ime and Grant getting into a fist fight and the team believed it? I would guess that if the joke was Tatum and Ime swinging at each other, it wouldn’t have got quite the same traction. These types of players open themselves up to more criticism from fans ESPECIALLY when you’re not close to All Star level.

To sum it all up, Grant will continue to annoy me and I will continue to root for him and hope he plays his way to a huge contract…however, if he misses back to back free throws again, I will probably be criticizing him after the fact
 

Jimbodandy

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Fwiw, I didn't think that you or anyone else was rooting against Grant or wishing for him to fail. Poor posting on my part if it came off that way, sorry.
 

Ed Hillel

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Well...that was strange. Basically benched until garbage time, and then came in and jacked up 7 threes in 10 minutes.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well...that was strange. Basically benched until garbage time, and then came in and jacked up 7 threes in 10 minutes.
Then didn’t hustle back on defense, layup ensured, and Blake lit into him. Grant responded by…..jacking up and missing another 3.

Donkey.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I don’t have a problem with Grant launching. The entire 4th was garbage time, someone has to do it. Plus I’d rather be be confident than hesitant because they are going to need him to knock down those shots in the playoffs. He’s going to get a lot of time against Embiid and/or Giannis.

Edit: maybe that’s a rosy view and he’s a Rozier-esque contract year jackass. Idk.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Well...that was strange. Basically benched until garbage time, and then came in and jacked up 7 threes in 10 minutes.
It was almost like everyone was in on it, though. JD seemed to pull up and make sure to get it to Grant for his last three.

I can’t really remember a player like Grant in terms of the team dynamic.
 

NomarsFool

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One of the decisions the Celtics will have to make this offseason is whether to match whatever offer sheet Grant can find. Of course, they may also offer him something pro-actively.

Quite a weird playoffs for Grant. Had some big roles in a few games, but was either not played or not playable in many of them.

Played a rotational role in only 2 of 6 games vs. Atlanta. 14 points in a loss, and 3 points in a win.

Played a big role in the blowout win against Philly, a rotational role in about 2 other games. And then played <8:30 in 4 other games (including a GNP-CD). Maybe picking up a bucket or two in all of those games.

Had one DNP-CD against Miami, and then generally played a lot of minutes - although didn't seem to have much impact in the boxscore other than the abomination of Game 3 (not really counting that, I think).

It's a national stage - and I'm hard pressed to see another team's GM thinking "we really need to get THAT guy!"
 

mcpickl

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One of the decisions the Celtics will have to make this offseason is whether to match whatever offer sheet Grant can find. Of course, they may also offer him something pro-actively.

Quite a weird playoffs for Grant. Had some big roles in a few games, but was either not played or not playable in many of them.

Played a rotational role in only 2 of 6 games vs. Atlanta. 14 points in a loss, and 3 points in a win.

Played a big role in the blowout win against Philly, a rotational role in about 2 other games. And then played <8:30 in 4 other games (including a GNP-CD). Maybe picking up a bucket or two in all of those games.

Had one DNP-CD against Miami, and then generally played a lot of minutes - although didn't seem to have much impact in the boxscore other than the abomination of Game 3 (not really counting that, I think).

It's a national stage - and I'm hard pressed to see another team's GM thinking "we really need to get THAT guy!"
I think their biggest threat here is that there aren't going to be many good players in this years FA market, and two of the teams that have money to spend have guys in a GM or head coach position (Utah/Houston) that Grant Williams has already performed well for.

I could easily see either team overspend on him if they can't land a bigger fish before getting down the list to him.
 

pjheff

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I think their biggest threat here is that there aren't going to be many good players in this years FA market, and two of the teams that have money to spend have guys in a GM or head coach position (Utah/Houston) that Grant Williams has already performed well for.

I could easily see either team overspend on him if they can't land a bigger fish before getting down the list to him.
With the new CBA, I think that Grant is allowed to walk and his minutes are penciled in for Hauser.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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With the new CBA, I think that Grant is allowed to walk and his minutes are penciled in for Hauser.
My guess as just another rando fan who has no insight into locker room or coach-player dynamics is that Grant is allowed to walk because Mazzulla (if he is retrained) seems to have issues with him based on his playing time down the stretch.

That said, maybe there were injuries or something else. They clearly went away from him at various points this season when his usage would have made sense - that doesn't bode well for his future as a Celtic. We just really don't know what the reasons were for his usage/lack thereof this year.
 

pjheff

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My guess as just another rando fan who has no insight into locker room or coach-player dynamics is that Grant is allowed to walk because Mazzulla (if he is retrained) seems to have issues with him based on his playing time down the stretch.

That said, maybe there were injuries or something else. They clearly went away from him at various points this season when his usage would have made sense - that doesn't bode well for his future as a Celtic. We just really don't know what the reasons were for his usage/lack thereof this year.
While not the same level of defender, Gallinari could also assume the role of floor spacer and small ball five.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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The surgery, considered successful, comes after Williams hurt the hand in March. Williams decided to continue playing with the injury through the Celtics' run to the Eastern Conference Finals.
Respect to him for playing through it since March.
 

Imbricus

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Hmm, I'm seeing that he hurt the hand in March, but tore the ligament against the Hornets on May 2? Anyway, maybe it explains the late-season struggles with three-point shooting.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Hmm, I'm seeing that he hurt the hand in March, but tore the ligament against the Hornets on May 2? Anyway, maybe it explains the late-season struggles with three-point shooting.
From an interview in today's Athletic

Williams’ injury
Williams, who underwent surgery on his left hand shortly after the season ended, said he expects to be ready in plenty of time for training camp.

“I did it in March and played through it (the rest of) the season,” he said.

Williams said he aggravated the issue late in the Celtics’ playoff run.

“It’s my first surgery of my life, so it was very, very anxious and weird,” Williams said. “But it’s been an easy recovery, and I’ll be back way before training camp like it never even happened. But I’m all good. Feeling all good and ready to go.”
The headline of the article is that Grant is open to a return for whatever that's worth. The piece acknowledges that its tough given the how close the team is to the projected second apron.
 

NomarsFool

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From an interview in today's Athletic



The headline of the article is that Grant is open to a return for whatever that's worth. The piece acknowledges that its tough given the how close the team is to the projected second apron.
Aren't they limited to like $6-$7 million before the second apron? I'm sure they'd be thrilled if Grant took that, but that seems unlikely to me.