Habs and Habs not - team speed, the Bruins, and the breakout

FL4WL3SS

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Last night's game solidified for me that the Bruins need a piece or two in order to go anywhere this season. They just don't have the speed to keep up with Montreal.
 
Julien needs to make some adjustments when he plays that team. His gameplan just isn't working.
 

gryoung

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FL4WL3SS said:
Last night's game solidified for me that the Bruins need a piece or two in order to go anywhere this season. They just don't have the speed to keep up with Montreal.
 
Julien needs to make some adjustments when he plays that team. His gameplan just isn't working.
 
Chara seems to have lost a step .....hope it's due to his continued recovery from the injury and not a sign of decline.  Seidenberg also is not the same player he was pre-injury .....not bad, but not as steady it seems.  Speed does present this team with issues getting out of their own end .........
 

Dummy Hoy

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gryoung said:
 
Chara seems to have lost a step .....hope it's due to his continued recovery from the injury and not a sign of decline.  Seidenberg also is not the same player he was pre-injury .....not bad, but not as steady it seems.  Speed does present this team with issues getting out of their own end .........
 
I thought Chara looked real slow last night too, but Joe MacDonald said something about Chara likely having been hit by the same bug that Looch had. He did look especially slow last night, so that could be feasible.
 
The Bruins are not going to be able to make up the speed gap between them and other teams at the deadline- they're stuck playing their current game this season. Any moves they make should be to strengthen their current style of play.
 
 
FL4WL3SS said:
Last night's game solidified for me that the Bruins need a piece or two in order to go anywhere this season. They just don't have the speed to keep up with Montreal.
 
Julien needs to make some adjustments when he plays that team. His gameplan just isn't working.
 
If you read my quote in the game thread, I thought we saw some changes in Julien's game plan (for the first time ever) specifically relating to playing Montreal. 
 

FL4WL3SS

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Dummy Hoy said:
 
I thought Chara looked real slow last night too, but Joe MacDonald said something about Chara likely having been hit by the same bug that Looch had. He did look especially slow last night, so that could be feasible.
 
The Bruins are not going to be able to make up the speed gap between them and other teams at the deadline- they're stuck playing their current game this season. Any moves they make should be to strengthen their current style of play.
 
 
 
If you read my quote in the game thread, I thought we saw some changes in Julien's game plan (for the first time ever) specifically relating to playing Montreal. 
Can you re-quote it? I didn't read the gamethread and this is the place for discussion.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Dummy Hoy said:
And with that, I didn't really think last nights game fit the pattern. I thought the Bs did a much better job on the breakout, using the middle option or going quick up the near side rather than D-D. I thought they were hey were a lot more effective with that earlier on before fatigue set in. They had a couple of chances to beat Price but he was strong and got a few bounces. Montreal's speed does and will cause problems, but I liked some of the things I saw tonight, despite the disappointing outcome.
 
Really just addressing the breakout, but I think that's the biggest issue against the Habs.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Dummy Hoy said:
 
Really just addressing the breakout, but I think that's the biggest issue against the Habs.
Maybe we should split out the discussion (mods?) since this is the trade rumors thread.
 
I agree that the breakout has been a big factor against Montreal, I also think they have a lot of trouble in the neutral zone and in open space, generally. The breakout has been a problem against a lot of teams this year and I don't think it's a Montreal specific problem. Fixing the breakout will help against Montreal, but I don't think it's the entire story.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I think the NZ issues are a direct result of the breakout though. They use a low, methodical breakout that ideally develops speed as it moves out of the DZ and through the NZ. When their BO is working well, they hit the NZ with speed, get the puck in deep, and either get by the opponent or meet them at the puck to begin grinding it low with a cycle. When the BO is stifled, if they are somehow able to get it out, they have no speed through the NZ, so even if they can get it in deep, other teams are on it quicker.
 
I also thought they did a nice job last night of having the wing higher up the wall just redirect or chip the puck up past the pinching D. 
 

FL4WL3SS

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FL4WL3SS said:
But that is only half of the story. I think the neutral zone is an issue when Montreal is breaking out as well.  I think the Bruins are caught flat footed too much and are not causing enough turnovers when Montreal has the puck. Their speed and ability to get the puck up ice is killing the Bruins. Montreal tries to get the Bruins in the open ice where they know they can dominate them and they stay away from areas where the Bruins can slow the game down and jam them up.
 
It works to perfection. I'm not sure what changes can be made to stop it, but Julien needs to figure something out.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Agree with that...it's why it's so important for the Bruins to have a successful forecheck. When they get on the opposing D it slows the transition game which is what the Habs rely on. 
 
A  couple of separate Habs issues-
 
  • I thought the Bruins did a pretty nice job (2nd goal excluded) of not allowing MTL to block every shot off to the side. The Bs had less SOG, but thought they were generally better looks. A huge part of the Canadiens' game is blocking shots into quick counter attack. I thought they did a better job last night than in the past.
  • The Canadians' speed advantage was most obvious in their OZ last night. They circled the zone and found openings (or the point) with great effectiveness and took advantage of speed or size (Krug) mismatches. 
 
Edit: Perfect Nap, thanks.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I'm a bit surprised no one else has contributed any thoughts to this discussion. 
 
Wallach was grousing this morning about how someone else better beat Montreal because Boston couldn't possibly do it and I just wanted to call and ask him if he could articulate why exactly Boston struggled with the Habs and see if he had any response other than the standard platitudes of "they're in their heads" and "they have too much speed." But he wouldn't because he doesn't really understand the game with any depth.
 

TheRealness

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Dummy Hoy said:
I'm a bit surprised no one else has contributed any thoughts to this discussion. 
 
Wallach was grousing this morning about how someone else better beat Montreal because Boston couldn't possibly do it and I just wanted to call and ask him if he could articulate why exactly Boston struggled with the Habs and see if he had any response other than the standard platitudes of "they're in their heads" and "they have too much speed." But he wouldn't because he doesn't really understand the game with any depth.
 
I think this Montreal thing is blown out of proportion because, well, they're Montreal. 
 
Look at the facts. In their series last year, I felt the Bruins outplayed them and deserved to win. They had horrid luck (remember the post count was like 25-1), and they lost. This year they had the baggage from the loss, plus they played all four fucking games on the second game of a back to back. Sure, Montreal played on the second of a back to back in the last game as well, but the scheduling was absolutely fucking absurd and had a large impact on each of the games. I just don't buy the narrative that they somehow can't beat Montreal now. 
 
I would not be surprised at all if they faced Montreal and beat them in the playoffs. 
 

timlinin8th

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TheRealness said:
 
Look at the facts. In their series last year, I felt the Bruins outplayed them and deserved to win. They had horrid luck (remember the post count was like 25-1), and they lost. This year they had the baggage from the loss, plus they played all four fucking games on the second game of a back to back. Sure, Montreal played on the second of a back to back in the last game as well, but the scheduling was absolutely fucking absurd and had a large impact on each of the games. I just don't buy the narrative that they somehow can't beat Montreal now. 
This is where I'm at as well. We haven't seen how the Bruins would fare in a series against Montreal because each time they've faced them they've come into the game gassed. Against a team with speed like Montreal, the Bruins need their legs more than anything and they haven't had them in any of the four meetings.

That isn't to say that the Montreal matchup doesn't present problems for the Bruins - it absolutely does - but the season series is indicative of absolutely nothing.
 

Dummy Hoy

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TheRealness said:
 
I think this Montreal thing is blown out of proportion because, well, they're Montreal. 
 
Look at the facts. In their series last year, I felt the Bruins outplayed them and deserved to win. They had horrid luck (remember the post count was like 25-1), and they lost. This year they had the baggage from the loss, plus they played all four fucking games on the second game of a back to back. Sure, Montreal played on the second of a back to back in the last game as well, but the scheduling was absolutely fucking absurd and had a large impact on each of the games. I just don't buy the narrative that they somehow can't beat Montreal now. 
 
I would not be surprised at all if they faced Montreal and beat them in the playoffs. 
 
Love it.
 
I think there are matchup issues (which I've detailed), but the common feeling of inevitability is pathetic.
 
As a goalie, do you have any insight as to Tuukka's struggles against the Habs? SSS is of course a factor, but he's been below standard against those pricks for years. 
 

TheRealness

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Dummy Hoy said:
 
Love it.
 
I think there are matchup issues (which I've detailed), but the common feeling of inevitability is pathetic.
 
As a goalie, do you have any insight as to Tuukka's struggles against the Habs? SSS is of course a factor, but he's been below standard against those pricks for years. 
 
I think Tuukka's problems are mental. As a goalie, you can over analyze yourself and start "thinking" too much out there. He seems to out think himself, get out of position, and then is scrambling. On the odd man rushes, especially breakaways, it seems he's committing too early and not letting the play come to him. He also seems to make the key timely saves against other teams, but doesn't seem to against Montreal. I don't see it as a style thing, or think Montreal does anything that different than what, say, the Rangers do. The Rangers are similarly skilled as far as speed, and Tuukka is fantastic against them. I just feel he has to work himself out of it, which is why I think Julien keeps starting him against them even playing two games in a row. 
 
I also agree they cause match-up problems, but as timlin alluded to, these are exacerbated when you don't have the legs to chase them around. Then they get down, they get desperate, take horrible chances (See: Hamilton and Chara on Pacorietty's breakaway goal), and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of suck. 
 
I really hope they get them again this year, and all the teeth gnashing starts that they own them, and then the Bruins eliminate them in 6. One can dream.