Hayward to Boston...Really, We Mean It

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yes, I understand what's being suggested. I'm saying that it's insane to think that Utah is so opposed to re-signing Hill that they'd let Hayward walk away as a result. Hill's a good point guard. They were very good when he was healthy this year. His is not the sort of contract that's so scary that you blow up your entire team to avoid having it on your books.
Hill turned down a 4/$88MM extension this spring. He thinks he can get max money - 4/$132MM. I doubt he signs with UT for much less than that.

Do you think UT wants to invest $120MM in Hill just so they can re-sign Hayward, particularly after Hill, who is 31, has only played in 43 and 49 games two out of the last three seasons?

Plus, if they do re-sign Hill and Hyywyrd, they would be spending $70+MM on those two and Gobert, and while they are nice players they are not really what I would consider a "Big 3".

edit: In addition to which, the Jazz would be heading into luxury tax territory:

Hyywyrd: $30M
Hill: $20M (conservative)
Gobert: $21M
Burks: $11M
Johnson: $11M
Exum: $5M
Ingles (if they resign him): $10M (ballpark)
Mitchell: $2M.

That's $110M just on 8 players.
That puts the Jazz at roughly $61 million for just those players. Other significant guaranteed salaries are Rudy Gobert ($22 million), Derrick Favors ($12 million) and Joe Johnson (10.5 million)
 
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Grin&MartyBarret

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Hill turned down a 4/$88MM extension this spring. He thinks he can get max money - 4/$132MM. I doubt he signs with UT for much less than that.

Do you think UT wants to invest $120MM in Hill just so they can re-sign Hayward, particularly after Hill, who is 31, has only played in 43 and 49 games two out of the last three seasons?

Plus, if they do re-sign Hill and Hyywyrd, they would be spending $70+MM on those two and Gobert, and while they are nice players they are not really what I would consider a "Big 3".
Hill made a mistake turning that down. Do you think Hill is going to get max money elsewhere? What's the point guard market look like right now? Who is looking for a point guard, has max money to offer, and would prioritize Hill over Lowry or Holiday?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Hill made a mistake turning that down. Do you think Hill is going to get max money elsewhere? What's the point guard market look like right now? Who is looking for a point guard, has max money to offer, and would prioritize Hill over Lowry or Holiday?
Rumours have Hill going to Nets for something around Conley money. Other rumoured places are Pelicans, Kings (if they want to groom Fox for a year) and even 76ers. Or maybe Raptors are more comfortable giving Hill his max contract than Lowry his max contact.

Only takes one.

And whether Hill was right or wrong to turn down his extension, it would be the rare case that he resigns with the Jazz for anywhere close enough in July. Maybe in September but not in July.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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It only takes one, you're right. But it doesn't make sense for any of the teams you mentioned.

The Nets are going to spend max money on a 31 year old point guard to pair him with Jeremy Lin and the 21 year old point guard they just acquired?

The Pelicans do not have max space.

The Raptors would have to renounce Lowry and Ibaka to create the room to give Lowry's max deal to a worse player.

The Kings and 76ers just drafted point guards and have other needs.

The point guard market's going to be low this year. Hill's the 3rd or 4th best PG in the class. There aren't many max deals to go around, and it's extraordinarily unlikely that Hill gets one.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Rumours have Hill going to Nets for something around Conley money. Other rumoured places are Pelicans, Kings (if they want to groom Fox for a year) and even 76ers. Or maybe Raptors are more comfortable giving Hill his max contract than Lowry his max contact.

Only takes one.

And whether Hill was right or wrong to turn down his extension, it would be the rare case that he resigns with the Jazz for anywhere close enough in July. Maybe in September but not in July.
Sounds like the Pelicans won't be in the market for a PG for much longer:



The market isn't lining up for Hill to get maxed. Minnesota and San Antonio sound like the biggest threats to the Jazz for his services at this point.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I agree with GMB....Hill made a mistake, and this report is highly unlikely to be meaningful.

Frankly, only way I believe that report has impact on anything is if Hill and Hayward have same agent and that agent has unusually large sway over them both.
 

PedroKsBambino

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5/170 for Jrue Holiday?!
Have to take that one in context, though: they are capped out and already well into the 'convince AD to extend' phase. Losing him and replacing with MLE is a huge step back, so their bad cap management and player development leaves them having to do this I think
 

BigSoxFan

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Have to take that one in context, though: they are capped out and already well into the 'convince AD to extend' phase. Losing him and replacing with MLE is a huge step back, so their bad cap management and player development leaves them having to do this I think
I mean, I would understand the rationale for maxing him out since your alternatives aren't any better but how do you keep Cousins after this year if you do so? This is not a franchise that can handle luxury tax payments. I guess it's quite possible that they don't expect to have Cousins after this upcoming season. If they do, then they're paying 85 million for 3 guys.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Sounds like the Pelicans won't be in the market for a PG for much longer:

The market isn't lining up for Hill to get maxed. Minnesota and San Antonio sound like the biggest threats to the Jazz for his services at this point.
I think he waits until he sees what Lowry ends up doing. If he bolts, Toronto is in the mix. I can't find it now but I also think I heard Dallas in the conversation as well.

Even if he doesn't get a max offer, it doesn't mean he can't do better than 4/$88, though I agree he should have taken it. It's just probably not on the table anymore. And as someone noted, Hayward is going to sign much sooner than Hill will.
 

nighthob

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Given that the Nets have a desperate need for guards that can shoot the ball and tens of millions in cap space, I suspect George Hill will be just fine if he's prioritizing money.
 

luckiestman

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Thank you Orlando!


Is it way easier to get a job as a GM than I thought? The salary cap is less than 100 million bucks, aren't they expanding the roster this year? How do I let the Orlando owner know I'm available?
 

Clears Cleaver

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Lol. Traded top pick. Didn't get Blake, butler, or George. Signing Hayward for the max means Bradley leaving. Ouch
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Did anyone really think the Celtics were going to get George and Hayward? The Celtics just don't ever get to pull off those kinds of deals. The more times goes by, the more it seems the KG and Allen acquisitions were a once-in-a-lifetime aligning of the stars and even that nearly didn't happen. I think Danny's days of pulling off heists ended with the Pierce/Garnett trade to Brooklyn. I think the word is out and no one in the league wants to even give him the time of day unless he starts with an overpay as the floor in any negotiations. I hope I'm wrong, but, Horford aside, this seems to be a franchise no one with any name value wants to actually play for any more. I don't know why either.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Lol. Traded top pick. Didn't get Blake, butler, or George. Signing Hayward for the max means Bradley leaving. Ouch
Hayward is a better player than Bradley. And the C's with any of those guys aren't likely to beat Golden State for the next year or two. Why mortgage your future for a one year rental that wont likely net you a championship?

As I pointed out, this makes it more likely that Causewayward comes East. And he only costs money.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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If, and it's a big if, they can sign Hayward, the offseason will be a success. They'll have a boatload of assets for the future and a very competitive team. Hopefully Danny can get it done.

Worst case scenario, they go into the season with basically the same team but add youth in Zizic, Yabu, Tatum and year 2 of Jaylen. That's not a bad spot to be in.
 

BigSoxFan

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If, and it's a big if, they can sign Hayward, the offseason will be a success. They'll have a boatload of assets for the future and a very competitive team. Hopefully Danny can get it done.

Worst case scenario, they go into the season with basically the same team but add youth in Zizic, Yabu, Tatum and year 2 of Jaylen. That's not a bad spot to be in.
If they sign Hayward it's basically a repeat of last year's offseason. In 2016, we added the #3 pick and hit a double with the Horford signing. Durant/Horford would have been the home run. Fast forward to this year, we again drafted a nice top prospect in Tatum and will hopefully hit another double by landing Hayward. George/Hayward would have been the home run.

The franchise is in a good spot either way.
 

Devizier

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Did anyone really think the Celtics were going to get George and Hayward? The Celtics just don't ever get to pull off those kinds of deals.
Most teams don't.

I mean, consider the position of the trade partner. You're dealing with a team that's going to make a trade only on a contingency basis. That's a tenuous position and (as the trading partner) puts you at a considerable disadvantage. What if their side deal falls apart? Then you're left holding the bag.

That said, I thought there was an outside chance of a George deal, but I'm not heartbroken about the Celtics passing up on it. Missing out on Butler might be the one that hurts in retrospect.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Did anyone really think the Celtics were going to get George and Hayward? The Celtics just don't ever get to pull off those kinds of deals. The more times goes by, the more it seems the KG and Allen acquisitions were a once-in-a-lifetime aligning of the stars and even that nearly didn't happen. I think Danny's days of pulling off heists ended with the Pierce/Garnett trade to Brooklyn. I think the word is out and no one in the league wants to even give him the time of day unless he starts with an overpay as the floor in any negotiations. I hope I'm wrong, but, Horford aside, this seems to be a franchise no one with any name value wants to actually play for any more. I don't know why either.
As I recall, the Ray Allen deal was thought at the time to be an overpay.

That aside, this is overly pessimistic. How many teams have made a KG/Allen type offseason splash since the Celtics did it in 2007? Golden State signing Durant is one example, but they were dealing from a position of strength compared to the Celtics. Who else has pulled it off?

I think the Celtics have a real shot at landing Hayward. The West just got tougher with Paul George going to OKC, and the Celtics may be comparable to the Heat in the short term, but their outlook is far better over the longer term. Hayward is not going to automatically sign on the dotted line just to play for Stevens, but I'm sure there is a level of trust there that will help the Celtics make their pitch. The biggest threat is probably the Spurs if they find a way to get involved.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I think the Celtics have a real shot at landing Hayward. The West just got tougher with Paul George going to OKC, and the Celtics may be comparable to the Heat in the short term, but their outlook is far better over the longer term. Hayward is not going to automatically sign on the dotted line just to play for Stevens, but I'm sure there is a level of trust there that will help the Celtics make their pitch. The biggest threat is probably the Spurs if they find a way to get involved.
I never said they weren't going to get Hayward, just that it was unrealistic to think they were going to land two high-level names in the same off-season. But if the acquisition of George was part off the final sales pitch for Hayward, it's a big hit. Again, though, that's if.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The more likely play always seemed like signing Hayward this offseason while maintaining the assets/salaries needed to trade for a star next off season when you know the value of the Nets and Lakers picks. If the Celtics do have 2 top 5 picks in next years draft, they will pretty much have the assets to trade for any player(s) they want.
 

JCizzle

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Let's get the Swedish Larry Bird ready to roll with his e-sports uniform.

Beyond that, I think it's a bad play - if I'm Hayward, I want to hear what type of system you plan on running, how I fit into that system, what the future looks like, etc. I like video games too, but that's kinda a lame sell attempt.
 
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slamminsammya

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Is it lamer than cupcakes? This offseason is teaching us that there is and always will be a collection of GM's who are worse than replacement level, where replacement level is any invested moderately intelligent fan off the street.
 

JCizzle

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These three league sources are making up "the sense" they get?
Tomorrow the sense will be Boston and then on Monday it will be Utah. I'm sure they're not making it up, but it likely is very dependent on who you ask and when you ask it.
 

PedroKsBambino

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No one has any real idea what he's thinking--but I expect leaks from all three teams that they are 'the favorites'

I do think Riley is a world-class recruiter...but he's selling the weakest product here too
 

BigSoxFan

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Are we going to get dumped using the Players Tribune again? Don't think I can handle another one.