Henry & Bloom booed at Winter Weekend

[Auger34]

Exactly. We keep going around and about on this stuff, bemoaning the lost opportunity that Bloom just couldn’t see cuz he’s clearly incompetent, without looking at what actually transpired.

In response to the tweet that you quoted, it has nothing to do with nuance or calling Bloom incompetent or whatever..

The Sox could have traded JDM and got rid of his salary. The return would have been basically nothing but they would have got under the tax. Bloom and the FO thought that it was better to ride it out, keep JDM and try to get into the playoffs. I understand the thought process and why they chose that course of action even though they ended up missing the playoffs. Completely defensible decision but it was a choice. Bloom wasnt handcuffed with no options because no one wanted JDM and he would have had to pay some of Martinez’s salary or whatever. There’s nothing to suggest that was the case

 

[bosockboy]

Great question and deer in the headlights response.

View: https://twitter.com/bossportsgordo/status/1617719905520087041?s=46&t=42iErF8qvNEtHJokvVHKTA

 

[BornToRun]

Great question and deer in the headlights response.

View: https://twitter.com/bossportsgordo/status/1617719905520087041?s=46&t=42iErF8qvNEtHJokvVHKTA

He just gave Rafael Devers 330 million dollars.

 

[Blizzard of 1978]

He just gave Rafael Devers 330 million dollars.

Agreed. The Red Sox I predict will have a shot at wildcard this year and be big players in 2024. They are called Fenway Sports Group and not Liverpool Sports Group. Red Sox are number one with John Henry.

 

[LogansDad]

In response to the tweet that you quoted, it has nothing to do with nuance or calling Bloom incompetent or whatever..

The Sox could have traded JDM and got rid of his salary. The return would have been basically nothing but they would have got under the tax. Bloom and the FO thought that it was better to ride it out, keep JDM and try to get into the playoffs. I understand the thought process and why they chose that course of action even though they ended up missing the playoffs. Completely defensible decision but it was a choice. Bloom wasnt handcuffed with no options because no one wanted JDM and he would have had to pay some of Martinez’s salary or whatever. There’s nothing to suggest that was the case

So since we can't prove a negative (that nobody wanted to take on overcooked JD in July, even for nothing), do you feel like finding a source that proves that somebody DID want to?

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

So since we can't prove a negative (that nobody wanted to take on overcooked JD in July, even for nothing), do you feel like finding a source that proves that somebody DID want to?

There were lots more, but Speier is (I think) the most widely respected on this board. He addresses many of the points others on the board have made about Martinez' struggles for a month and the like. He even speculates on the kind of return the team might get. Is Speier a GM, obviously not. But I also don't think of him as some worthless media personality that would publish this kind of a story if he hadn't checked around and found out that other teams were at least somewhat interested in JDM.



"As for dealing Martinez, two factors are in play. The first is the return. A year ago, the Twins landed starter Joe Ryan from the Rays for a half-season of DH Nelson Cruz. Martinez’s production this year doesn’t match that of Cruz in 2021, but his track record suggests that dealing him could contribute to the Sox’ ongoing efforts to deepen their organizational talent.

The second is financial. Martinez is owed roughly $6.75 million over the rest of the season. If the Sox deal him and another pending free agent or two, their payroll for 2022 could dip back below the $230 million luxury tax threshold — theoretically putting them in a position to spend more aggressively heading into 2023.

One AL source suggested Friday it appears the Sox are preparing to deal Martinez and other role players. If Martinez is dealt, he certainly won’t be blindsided."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/07/29/sports/last-days-jd-martinez-with-red-sox/

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

A large group don’t believe Mookie Betts would have gone to free agency if he’d been offered the same as what he received from the Dodgers. Ignoring that Betts looked forward to FA and was looking for Trout money. Same group doesn’t include the $50m Price saving in trade calculation that dropped prospects down a few rungs.

Guys on XM Radio this afternoon said Padres offered an insane amount for Xander and nobody else makes that signing. But within minutes call the loss of Xander unacceptable and toss out big market Sox could afford it.

Media is feeding the fire.

I don't think anyone on here expected the Red Sox to come remotely close to the Padres Godfather offer. My personal frustration is that they specifically cited the Jon Lester situation about not wanting to do that again, and while Chicago didn't make Lester a Godfather offer, it still played out similarly. I believe that if the Red Sox made their best offer earlier in the negotions they would have Bogaerts at a sub $200 mil extension, possible even the Story contract. In defense of Bloom, I think absent the Godfather offer from San Diego, it's conceivable Bogaerts still takes a home town discount (say the reported 6/$160) to stay.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

So since we can't prove a negative (that nobody wanted to take on overcooked JD in July, even for nothing), do you feel like finding a source that proves that somebody DID want to?

This has been done multiple times, the Mets and Dodgers (who just signed an over cooked JD) both expressed interest and reported the ask was too high. Sox were apparently asking for a major league player and top prospect.

The idea that teams just looked at JD’s last month splits and didn’t have interest doesn’t make any sense.

 

[simplicio]

This has been done multiple times, the Mets and Dodgers (who just signed an over cooked JD) both expressed interest and reported the ask was too high. Sox were apparently asking for a major league player and top prospect.

Do we have a source on that ask? I've looked and couldn't find one.

 

[Max Power]

This has been done multiple times, the Mets and Dodgers (who just signed an over cooked JD) both expressed interest and reported the ask was too high. Sox were apparently asking for a major league player and top prospect.

Or they thought that simply picking up his entire salary for the rest of the season was too much. Considering the level of trades that did happen with each team (and the rest of the league) it's entirely possible that full freight JD was too much for anyone.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Do we have a source on that ask? I've looked and couldn't find one.

https://www.si.com/mlb/mets/news/new-york-mets-showing-interest-in-jd-martinez-michael-conforto

“The Mets tried to trade for Martinez at the trade deadline, but the Boston Red Sox had too high of an asking price for their rental slugger.”

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-mets/mets-reportedly-have-interest-in-j-d-martinez-if-he-becomes-available/

View: https://twitter.com/ragazzoreport/status/1553898446331023360

 

[jbupstate]

I don't think anyone on here expected the Red Sox to come remotely close to the Padres Godfather offer. My personal frustration is that they specifically cited the Jon Lester situation about not wanting to do that again, and while Chicago didn't make Lester a Godfather offer, it still played out similarly. I believe that if the Red Sox made their best offer earlier in the negotions they would have Bogaerts at a sub $200 mil extension, possible even the Story contract. In defense of Bloom, I think absent the Godfather offer from San Diego, it's conceivable Bogaerts still takes a home town discount (say the reported 6/$160) to stay.

I think people are absolutely dreaming if they think Xander accepts the Story offer early. Totally ignores that Xander already signed at a discount, secured the opt-out, previous signing of shortstops, Boras as agent and huge leverage. It’s suspending belief.

More reasonably Xander would have taken $200m. And at that price the Sox would pass.

I don’t understand why people treat players as fans of fans. Players who make it close to free agency understand their worth. The really good ones know the team won big on their cheap contracts. They also have already made generational wealth and can/should bet on themselves. For Betts and Xander to play their hands, they needed to be perfectly willing to leave for more or a better opportunity. Xander killed it. Mookie would have if not for Covid.

 

[brienc]

Great question and deer in the headlights response.

View: https://twitter.com/bossportsgordo/status/1617719905520087041?s=46&t=42iErF8qvNEtHJokvVHKTA

I’ve been quite critical of ownership and Bloom, but I thought the wry smile and the looking at his watch from Henry was hilarious. There was some subtle deadpan humor that was humanizing there.

 

[Auger34]

So since we can't prove a negative (that nobody wanted to take on overcooked JD in July, even for nothing), do you feel like finding a source that proves that somebody DID want to?

@Petagine in a Bottle and @Big Papi's Mango Salsa cited two.

Chad Jennings in The Athletic wrote this in a piece that came out on Dec 28th

“In retrospect, multiple Red Sox decision-makers have acknowledged it was a mistake to not dump more salary at the trade deadline last year. They did trade Christian Vázquez, but most of their other pending free-agent chips were either struggling (Eovaldi and J.D. Martinez) or hurt (Wacha, Matt Strahm and Kiké Hernández). The team didn’t want to trade Bogaerts because it still hoped to re-sign him. The potential returns for the non-Bogaerts trade chips were underwhelming, according to several people familiar with the offers, and the Red Sox felt it was better to give the 2022 roster a real chance to rally down the stretch rather than execute a series of moves that would have been little more than salary dumps.”

The rumor mongering at the time of the trade deadline was that the Red Sox wanted actual prospects for JDM instead of just dumping the salary. The Mets specifically were oft mentioned but instead traded a light package for Darin Ruf. It seems likely to me that they would have assumed Martinez’s contract in the quest for a bat sincd payroll doesn’t seem to matter to Cohen.

And just as an aside, it’s just as easy to prove that no one wanted JDM or that the Sox would have had to eat salary to get rid of him. None of us are in the building we are all going off of reports/rumors. At least 4 people in this exact thread claimed that the Sox would have had to eat salary to get rid of him yet no ask of proof or news reports from them?

 

[Jimbodandy]

I'll cop to this; I'm a fan living in NYC (really I'm probably a fan because I live in NYC) and I've never been to Fenway. I imagine it's easier to remain sanguine about the state of the team when I'm not constantly inundated with local negative clickbait media pounding the drum about how terrible everything is.

But also, nobody is forcing you to spend money for the privilege of going to see the Sox in person.

Regarding the bolded, damn right man.

Not hearing sports talk radio and not reading the writers desperate for clicks...it's like deleting social media apps from your phone. The professional shit-stirrers need eyes and ears on their product, and a long-form discussion about the Sox minor league starting pitching depth and timeline will retain a very small subset of us. It's filet mignon. What the folks in those fields want is cocaine lab rats, who keep nudging the button for more cocaine water. And the way to do that is through controversy. Make up some narrative (or cling to an unsubstantiated one from unnamed sources with a grudge), drop bomb, rinse, repeat. They're pros at this. Rock stars.

Avoiding this stuff is a smart psychological decision. Why anyone would choose to become so negative with so many great sources of information out there that isn't dependent on ratings is beyond my capacity for understanding.

 

[Max Power]

Did everyone develop amnesia during the month of December? This board was at least as negative about the team as the media, and probably much more. From the second Xander signed with the Padres to when Raffy was extended, nearly every post was about how shitty ownership and the front office was and how sad that made the poster. It didn't have anything to do with reporters looking for clicks.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Did everyone develop amnesia during the month of December? This board was at least as negative about the team as the media, and probably much more. From the second Xander signed with the Padres to when Raffy was extended, nearly every post was about how shitty ownership and the front office was and how sad that made the poster. It didn't have anything to do with reporters looking for clicks.

Your signature juxtaposed with your post is pretty frigging awesome.

Reporters and talk show guys feed that beast. They feed that anger. Nobody is saying that every negative opinion posed on this forum or elsewhere is the creation of a media monster. Speaking only for myself, I'd say that avoiding hack reporters and hack radio jockeys is good for sanity. To each his own of course.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Nobody is talking about the Red Sox though. Between the Pats and their search for an OC and the Bs and Cs fall/winter dominance the Red Sox have been mostly an afterthought.

And that is more of a problem than written or audial clickbait.