Henry & Bloom booed at Winter Weekend

geoflin

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There was also a lot of sentiment on this board and in the fan base in general to draft either Leiter or Rocker if available. Rocker was available and Bloom chose Mayer instead. I give him credit for this.
 
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BaseballJones

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There was also a lot of sentiment on this board and in the fan base in general to draft either Leiter or Rocker if available. Rocker was available and Bloom chose Mayer instead. I give him credit for this.
Agree, 100%. Maybe Mayer will end up not making it. Totally possible. But at THIS point, Chaim absolutely deserves credit for that pick.
 

BigSoxFan

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There was also a lot of sentiment on this board and in the fan base in general to draft either Leiter or Rocker if available. Rocker was available and Bloom chose Mayer instead. I give him credit for this.
I don’t recall many people wanting Rocker if Mayer were also available but maybe I’m misremembering. In any case, he has to make a pick so he deserves some credit. How much credit you want to give a GM for taking the consensus top remaining guy at #4 is up to the individual. I don’t think Mayer will be the major deciding factor on how we ultimately evaluate Bloom. I certainly hope he becomes the star we all want and the team needs.
 

ehaz

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There was also a lot of sentiment on this board and in the fan base in general to draft either Leiter or Rocker if available. Rocker was available and Bloom chose Mayer instead. I give him credit for this.
That’s because everyone assumed Mayer was going 1st overall.
 

walt in maryland

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I think it's totally acceptable to boo whoever and whenever. It's a little silly to act like it's some sort of great act of disrespect or morally reprehensible in anyway.

That being said, I believe Henry deserves the scorn way more than Bloom. His inability to read that room is a feature, not a bug and just another sign of his tone-deaf nature. Yes, he's been successful, and I completely understand how older fans recoil at what they perceive as entitled behavior from spoiled fans. However, Henry continues to put his foot in his mouth at every conceivable opportunity. It's the constant mixed messaging that drives people nuts. He just doesn't come off as a real or trustworthy person in anyway.

Chaim has been solid in his tenure. He clearly has a vision, and I think it's working (albeit slowly), but I have serious questions about his ability to read the market. I think he's more of less done what he had been instructed to do when he was hired however, so I don't personally have many issues with him.

I do however have a big problem with a billionaire owner who continually hides behind past successes, who cries about baseball players being expensive while simultaneously owning 2 other major sports franchises that were purchased after the Red Sox. The same owner who has presided over numerous PR missteps from large to small. The same owner who almost never answers direct questions from the press and when he does, it's almost always in a newspaper he owns.

So yes, John Henry has brought me great joy, I'm grateful for that. I also think he's a two-faced, overly sensitive, out of touch man child who refuses to take accountability for any of his mistakes. If I had the opportunity I'd boo him too.
Damn near a perfect take. Henry is a tone-deaf billionaire. He takes a lot of heat for not talking publicly, but frankly, we're all better off with him saying nothing. I count myself as a Bloom believer, and you have to admire his guts and poise if nothing else. He didn't get good enough returns for Betts and Benintendi, and he should have ducked under the CBT last year, but no one's perfect.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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Agree, 100%. Maybe Mayer will end up not making it. Totally possible. But at THIS point, Chaim absolutely deserves credit for that pick.
I agree with this completely. Bloom also deserves credit for selling everything that wouldn't be here long term in 2020 to be in a position to draft Meyer with a top 5 pick (and land Pivetta, and re-set the tax).

Of course, it's also why I maintain he deserves criticism for NOT doing as such last year. I understand what he did, I understand why he did it. But just like he deserves credit for where he got to pick - and whom he picked - in 2021 I think he also deserves to be questioned as to why he didn't do more to have that kind of opportunity with the 2023 class.

If we're going to credit him for Mayer (which I do, certainly), I think we have to be consistent and criticize him for not taking the same type of opportunity when it presented itself last year to get a higher pick with more slot / bonus money to sprinkle throughout the class.

It's never as simple as saying a GM is good or bad, because most intelligent GMs (and I certainly think Bloom is intelligent) are going to have "50 wins and 50 losses, and it's what they do with the other 62 that count" so to speak.
 

OCD SS

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I think going into draft day Mayer was the consensus best talent available at 1/1, and the Sox were desperately trying to get Leiter to fall, mostly because no one thought Mayer would slip 3 picks. That some fans here were looking at Rocker as some sort of "draft for need on the MLB club" sort of option is more an indictment of those posters not following the draft or its internal workings. At the time Rocker was also showing some disturbing signs of having arm troubles.

A real test of Bloom would've been if Mayer, Leiter, and then Lawlar were picked 1 - 3 which IIRC was a worst case scenario at the time. You could arguably substitute Davis at #3 to account for current rankings for this exercise, but it's not a real test (either way) to credit him for making the obvious move to pick up the $100 bill lying at his feet.

OTOH you really have to look at the Tigers and think "Wow, things could be so much worse."
 

walt in maryland

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I agree with this completely. Bloom also deserves credit for selling everything that wouldn't be here long term in 2020 to be in a position to draft Meyer with a top 5 pick (and land Pivetta, and re-set the tax).

Of course, it's also why I maintain he deserves criticism for NOT doing as such last year. I understand what he did, I understand why he did it. But just like he deserves credit for where he got to pick - and whom he picked - in 2021 I think he also deserves to be questioned as to why he didn't do more to have that kind of opportunity with the 2023 class.

If we're going to credit him for Mayer (which I do, certainly), I think we have to be consistent and criticize him for not taking the same type of opportunity when it presented itself last year to get a higher pick with more slot / bonus money to sprinkle throughout the class.

It's never as simple as saying a GM is good or bad, because most intelligent GMs (and I certainly think Bloom is intelligent) are going to have "50 wins and 50 losses, and it's what they do with the other 62 that count" so to speak.
The Sox really should have ducked under the CBT last year. They were only 2 games out of the final wild card spot at the trading deadline, and Sale had just come back looking strong. It wasn't unreasonable to think they might sneak into the playoffs, but they weren't going anywhere. Once Bloom traded Vazquez, he should have moved JD and Eovaldi, regardless of returns. Fans/media would have screamed, but they're screaming anyway.
 

LogansDad

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There was also a lot of sentiment on this board and in the fan base in general to draft either Leiter or Rocker if available. Rocker was available and Bloom chose Mayer instead. I give him credit for this.
I think what was actually going on was that the plan was to draft Rocker or Leiter because there was no way Mayer was going to be available.

It takes courage to deviate from a plan, too.
 

8slim

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People are still mad that they traded Mookie. That anger subsided in 2021, but came roaring back in the back half of 2022 because the team fell out of contention and then they lost Xander.

It's not rocket science to understand fan sentiment. If you're going to consciously jettison marquee players in the name of "long term franchise health" you better win, and win pretty quickly, or there's going to be blowback.

And on top of that, it's not like the minors are teeming with well-known, "can't miss", near-major-league-ready prospects. I get that people here are well versed on our farm talent, but most people aren't. Aside from Cassas and Mayer I'm not sure there's anyone else who moves the needle for the majority of the fan base.

So that's it. People don't see some bounty of great players on the horizon, and they think the present is pretty mediocre.

Hopefully a year from now Bloom can address that crowd with a "neener, neener, I told you so."
 

BigSoxFan

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People are still mad that they traded Mookie. That anger subsided in 2021, but came roaring back in the back half of 2022 because the team fell out of contention and then they lost Xander.

It's not rocket science to understand fan sentiment. If you're going to consciously jettison marquee players in the name of "long term franchise health" you better win, and win pretty quickly, or there's going to be blowback.

And on top of that, it's not like the minors are teeming with well-known, "can't miss", near-major-league-ready prospects. I get that people here are well versed on our farm talent, but most people aren't. Aside from Cassas and Mayer I'm not sure there's anyone else who moves the needle for the majority of the fan base.

So that's it. People don't see some bounty of great players on the horizon, and they think the present is pretty mediocre.

Hopefully a year from now Bloom can address that crowd with a "neener, neener, I told you so."
I also think SoSH collectively follows the minor league system a lot more fervently than the average fan. If the Sox traded Bleis for some modest MLB vet improvement, most Sox fans would probably be like, “cool!”
 

8slim

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I also think SoSH collectively follows the minor league system a lot more fervently than the average fan. If the Sox traded Bleis for some modest MLB vet improvement, most Sox fans would probably be like, “cool!”
For sure, that was definitely my point. Hell, I barely follow our minor league guys and I post here all the time. There's just not enough time in the day when it comes to that for me.

But, even a very casual farm system follower as me tends to know when big-time prospects are near being MLB ready. I vividly remember the buzz around JBJ, Mookie and X. I'm old enough to remember the buzz around Clemens, Greenwell and Vaughn. Mayer has that buzz but he's still far away.

I don't think it helped that Duran was such a disaster last season.
 

joe dokes

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The Sox really should have ducked under the CBT last year. They were only 2 games out of the final wild card spot at the trading deadline, and Sale had just come back looking strong. It wasn't unreasonable to think they might sneak into the playoffs, but they weren't going anywhere. Once Bloom traded Vazquez, he should have moved JD and Eovaldi, regardless of returns. Fans/media would have screamed, but they're screaming anyway.
I dont think "sneaking into the playoffs" and "but weren't going anywhere" is a valid construct anymore. I suppose it depends on what "anywhere" means, but the Phillies won 87 games last year and got to the WS. On balance, I think the better course is to try and sneak in.
 

Heating up in the bullpen

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And probably the last. What a run?

I get why people are upset with where this team is in its build cycle but I can't imagine traveling to Springfield to boo John Henry. It's petulant and entitled at best. This team didn't resign Pedro. It traded Nomar and Jon Lester. The franchise recovered. I'm upset that Mookie Betts isn't here anymore. I am also sad to see Xander go, but it seems really "low information" to say that there isn't a plan here. The plan is really obvious to me. They want to build a strong player development system that will consistently supplement the major league roster at low cost. That seems prudent. They have consistently made low risk moves at the MLB roster level to supplement their chances but have mostly adhered to that plan. Last years trade deadline decisions notwithstanding. I have a hard time getting all that upset about the marginal moves they make at the top of the roster because they are clearly trying to plug gaps and get lucky to contend earlier in that build process. That's what happened in 2021 but this board talked about how fortunate that team was to get where they ended up.

I think I'd be more upset if they were paying big dollars for medicore players on long term deals because it would hamper the long term plan. All of the other teams in the division are doing this draft and develop plan and are further in the process than the Red Sox. Trying to compete by spending without the system behind it would almost certainly result in long term failure. I guess we could expect John Henry to spend $350m a year to try to contend every year at all costs but there is only one team in the sport doing that. The Mets. I'd prefer to live with more realistic expectations.

But I guess go to Springfield and boo because they didn't resign a player 5 years ago. It's bizarre.
I'm with you. Re: your comment I bolded, I'm thinking about Panda and Hanley and how poorly those deals worked out. I like the short-term commitments Bloom is making to plug holes.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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It strikes me that those that are accusing others of being entitled or not the ones attending games and paying premium prices for a barely competitive and non entertaining product.

I struggle to explain to my grandson why he should be happy since the Red Sox were good years ago and they will possibly be again in the future once the billionaires can pay the millionaires more money.

I apologize for feeling entitled that I should be getting value for the money I’m paying to attend games. I guess I should keep quiet, wave at Wally, sing Sweet Caroline and buy my merchandise and leave the park quietly.
 

Cellar-Door

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They offered him almost $200 million. What about that screams, "Not actually a top priority!"

Accusing people of lying without proof is pretty spectacular.

They wanted him back, on a reasonable deal. Bogaerts was always going to test free agency unless the Sox did something really stupid. They held the line and let San Diego do something really stupid instead.
Beyond some real question whether they got anywhere near $200M.... it's relative. If you make an offer that is way below market you can't say it's a top priority. I mean, if my top priority is buying a Ferrari and I go to the dealership, see list price is $300k and tell the dealer "hey I'll give you $130k" was it really a top priority? The Red Sox wanted him back if he would take a massively lesser deal than what was going to be on the table, it's fine to say "we were only interested in Xander at our price", I can respect that, but if you're nowhere near the market on him you can't really say bringing him back was a top priority.
 

BoSox Rule

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I know Mookie Betts is awesome. I don’t care about batting average, and he is an extremely productive all around player.

Having said that, I’m sure that this fan base
would be extremely rationale about paying him $40 million dollars a year to hit around .270 with power and great defense to really not change the AL East picture too much with all the Red Sox pitching and injury issues.
 

bosockboy

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I know Mookie Betts is awesome. I don’t care about batting average, and he is an extremely productive all around player.

Having said that, I’m sure that this fan base
would be extremely rationale about paying him $40 million dollars a year to hit around .270 with power and great defense to really not change the AL East picture too much with all the Red Sox pitching and injury issues.
Yep, he’s regressed and trading him was the right move. The return was the problem.
 

Cassvt2023

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Since 2000, the Red Sox have the 2nd best winning % in the AL (to the NYY), and 4th best in all of baseball. They are tied with Oakland for the 2nd most playoff appearances in the AL, and 3rd in the AL in playoff series wins, 1 behind the Astro's. They have won 4 championships. No other AL team has won more than 2. We should consider ourselves fortunate. The problem since the 2011 collapse is the boom or bust. Some 1st place finishes, too many last place finishes. I think Theo, Cherrington, and Chaim all have similar philosophies when it comes to player development. Dombrowski had a completely different one. They all doled out some big contracts that were busts (too early to tell w/ Bloom). The problem with ownership is that each GM or President of baseball ops has been given a different mandate. Not counting the weird pandemic year, Bloom has really only had two years to provide the consistent sustainability that he talks about. Seems like they need to give him at least 2-3 more to see it come to fruition.
 

Bergs

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It strikes me that those that are accusing others of being entitled or not the ones attending games and paying premium prices for a barely competitive
A team that literally never finishes below .500 by definition is playing "competitive" baseball games.

and non entertaining product.
If you don't find baseball games entertaining, I'd think about not going to baseball games.

I struggle to explain to my grandson why he should be happy since the Red Sox were good years ago and they will possibly be again in the future once the billionaires can pay the millionaires more money.
The Red Sox of the last 20 years - shit, the last 5 years even - have been more competitive than they were when you were your grandson's age. Why did you care about them then? Perhaps you used a different measuring stick? One that emphasized liking baseball over back-of-the-envelope financial calculations concerning who got paid what? Maybe you can think about how to explain whatever that was then to your grandson now?

I apologize for feeling entitled that I should be getting value for the money I’m paying to attend games.
At issue seems to be your definition of "value" relative to what you are actually "entitled" to as a ticket purchaser.

I guess I should keep quiet, wave at Wally, sing Sweet Caroline and buy my merchandise and leave the park quietly.
I hope the stigmata scars aren't too noticeable at formal events.
 

chawson

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It strikes me that those that are accusing others of being entitled or not the ones attending games and paying premium prices for a barely competitive and non entertaining product.

I struggle to explain to my grandson why he should be happy since the Red Sox were good years ago and they will possibly be again in the future once the billionaires can pay the millionaires more money.

I apologize for feeling entitled that I should be getting value for the money I’m paying to attend games. I guess I should keep quiet, wave at Wally, sing Sweet Caroline and buy my merchandise and leave the park quietly.
I don't understand how people, especially older generations, see this as some fallow period for Red Sox baseball. I don't mean to assume anything about you or your fanship, but since you mention your grandson, I assume you're older than me, an "old millennial." Hasn't there been many stretches spanning several years of mediocre Red Sox teams?

The way I see it, the Sox just had a bad season! That's it, one! We have no idea how the 2020 season would have gone if it had started in April, or if several of those players had not gone down. It's apparently a very important data point in the write-ups now, but at the time it was extremely low on the list of the world's concerns.

2022 was a weird year. We started bad and unlucky, then played great, then sustained freak injuries to Sale, Story and Kiké and a collision of wear-and-tear injuries to Eovaldi, Whitlock, Wacha and Hill all at the same time.

I genuinely don't understand where all the vitriol is coming from.
 

joe dokes

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It strikes me that those that are accusing others of being entitled or not the ones attending games and paying premium prices for a barely competitive and non entertaining product.

I struggle to explain to my grandson why he should be happy since the Red Sox were good years ago and they will possibly be again in the future once the billionaires can pay the millionaires more money.

I apologize for feeling entitled that I should be getting value for the money I’m paying to attend games. I guess I should keep quiet, wave at Wally, sing Sweet Caroline and buy my merchandise and leave the park quietly.
Winning a championship is not the only impetus to becoming a fan of whatever team you're a fan of. If you tell your grandson that vegetables are poisonous, he won't eat them. If you buy him ice cream at a game, or show him how to keep score while watching at home, how the team does in any particular season probably won't be at the top of his list as to why he's having a good time.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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I dont think "sneaking into the playoffs" and "but weren't going anywhere" is a valid construct anymore. I suppose it depends on what "anywhere" means, but the Phillies won 87 games last year and got to the WS. On balance, I think the better course is to try and sneak in.
While I get the point here, I think the thing that those teams that "sneak in" and then thrive in the playoffs tend to have something in common. An ace (or two) at the top of their staff that can get on a run or have players actually believe they can do something special. Sure, this isn't analytic, but we all remember Millar and his whole "Don't let us win tonight..." mindset for the team in 2004. But that is of course impossible to measure or quantify and I get it, but it becomes easier to go on a run with top of the line starting pitching - even recently.

The poster child team everyone thinks of as "sneaking in" are the 2006 Cardinals, and they had the reigning Cy Young winner (Chris Carpenter) at the top of that rotation. I guess the next one I think of are the 2014 Giants, and they had Madison Bumgarner at the front of their rotation, Tim Hudson filling the 2013 John Lackey role. The 2019 Nationals come to mind next (Scherzer and Strasburg). Last year's Phillies had Nola and Wheeler.

Maybe some on here want to put Eovaldi in the same class as some of those guys, but I don't personally see it. If you have an ace to give the ball to (or two, like Philly / Washington in the two mentioned) sure, go nuts trying to sneak in and see what happens when you could go Scherzer and Strasburg 4 times in a 7 game series, but last year's Red Sox team didn't look at all like that.


*It's not even like Sale was "expected back" on August 3rd or something. After getting the surgery on his finger the reports were more in the vein of maybe he can come back before the end of the year - and probably in the 'pen as he wouldn't have been stretched out. The wrist made it certain he was done all year, but there were two plus weeks between the finger injury and the trade deadline. It wasn't like that took place the day before or some such. The quote from an orthopedic surgeon was: Geary added. “Given that he wasn’t stretched out before, I doubt he’ll be good to go this year.” (https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/07/chris-sale-undergoes-surgery-on-broken-finger-boston-red-sox-say-lefty-had-open-reduction-and-internal-fixation.html)

Sure, Eovaldi, Hill and Wacha were likely coming back, but even with them the team wasn't in playoff position, and Sale was pretty likely to only have a chance to be back in a bullpen role, at best.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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It strikes me that those that are accusing others of being entitled or not the ones attending games and paying premium prices for a barely competitive and non entertaining product.

I struggle to explain to my grandson why he should be happy since the Red Sox were good years ago and they will possibly be again in the future once the billionaires can pay the millionaires more money.

I apologize for feeling entitled that I should be getting value for the money I’m paying to attend games. I guess I should keep quiet, wave at Wally, sing Sweet Caroline and buy my merchandise and leave the park quietly.
Geez.... do you feel entitled to a win every time you see the Sox play a game? You're entitled to feeling like the Sox should win... and to feeling disappointed if they don't. But this isn't a government agency... you're entitled to Social Security but not to a good product by a corporation. If you don't like the product... you can go elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to spend your money on the Sox.. . or even your time and energy and attention.
I'd really try and teach your grandkids to just enjoy the game and at some point in the season, if the Sox are fading... start to look at the little things that can make the game fun (watching Bello, Casas, Schreiber emerge, etc).
You're allowed to boo, personally I think it's dumb and immature at any point. What does it ever accomplish?
 

simplicio

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It strikes me that those that are accusing others of being entitled or not the ones attending games and paying premium prices for a barely competitive and non entertaining product.

I struggle to explain to my grandson why he should be happy since the Red Sox were good years ago and they will possibly be again in the future once the billionaires can pay the millionaires more money.

I apologize for feeling entitled that I should be getting value for the money I’m paying to attend games. I guess I should keep quiet, wave at Wally, sing Sweet Caroline and buy my merchandise and leave the park quietly.
I'll cop to this; I'm a fan living in NYC (really I'm probably a fan because I live in NYC) and I've never been to Fenway. I imagine it's easier to remain sanguine about the state of the team when I'm not constantly inundated with local negative clickbait media pounding the drum about how terrible everything is.

But also, nobody is forcing you to spend money for the privilege of going to see the Sox in person.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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Some numbers:

McGuire = $1,125,000 plus two arb years
Vazquez = $10,000,000 each of the next three years

which contract would you want?
That wasn't my argument. I think if we all take emotion out of it, the catching transactions around the deadline make sense. I would also accept that the Pham and Hosmer trades also made sense. However, I will not concede that their inability or unwillingness to get under the cap should regard the entire deadline as a failure.
 

dhappy42

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They finished in last place and lost the face of the franchise to free agency. They deserved to be booed.

Fans will cheer again when they win. That’s how it works. Lose. Boos. Win. Cheers.
 

geoflin

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When I pay to go to a game at Fenway Park the only thing I'm entitled to is to watch a baseball game. I hope it's a good game, I hope the Red Sox win but I'm not entitled to either. I go because I love the game of baseball and will continue to go whether or not the Red Sox have a chance to make the playoffs. I bought tickets to a couple of games towards the end of last year thinking the chances were pretty good at that point that they would lose but I wanted to watch a baseball game so went anyway. That's what I learned as a child - it's fun to watch a baseball game.
 

8slim

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I genuinely don't understand where all the vitriol is coming from.
Mookie + 2020 + 2022 + Xander + few major FA signings + few 2023-MLB-ready noteworthy prospects = today

I'm assuming you meant this hyperbolically, but everyone should know where the "vitriol" is coming from. You don't have to agree. but you should know.
 

BornToRun

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They finished in last place and lost the face of the franchise to free agency. They deserved to be booed.

Fans will cheer again when they win. That’s how it works. Lose. Boos. Win. Cheers.
Because too many fans are fickle, impatient children. Booing your own guys is so childish and the people who did it at this get together should be embarrassed. And I wouldn’t say they lost Xander so much as they decided that he wasn’t worth what he was going to get and let him walk.
 

moondog80

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However, I will not concede that their inability or unwillingness to get under the cap should regard the entire deadline as a failure.
The impact of not getting under the cap was that two compensation picks they are getting will drop from 2nd round to the 5th round, along with a proportionate drop in spending pool money.

Given the low hit rate in the MLB draft once you get past the first round (the top 10, really), this seems like a very small price to pay. I can't believe people wanted them to punt on a 33% chance at the postseason in order to get a marginal gain in the draft.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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The impact of not getting under the cap was that two compensation picks they are getting will drop from 2nd round to the 5th round, along with a proportionate drop in spending pool money.

Given the low hit rate in the MLB draft once you get past the first round (the top 10, really), this seems like a very small price to pay. I can't believe people wanted them to punt on a 33% chance at the postseason in order to get a marginal gain in the draft.
There's also the fact that they will feel obligated to get under the cap this year or next and they would be doing so in a year where they could otherwise spend or be more competitive. They finished in last place and failed to get under the cap, that's a problem.

I'm sure you've heard the expression, never let a crisis go to waste. 2022 was a bad year. You can argue all you want that they had a chance at the playoffs, but they would have had to do far more than McGuire, Pham and Hosmer for that to be a realistic goal, let alone go deep in the playoffs. The 2022 deadline was a missed opportunity to reset the cap.

Because too many fans are fickle, impatient children. Booing your own guys is so childish and the people who did it at this get together should be embarrassed. And I wouldn’t say they lost Xander so much as they decided that he wasn’t worth what he was going to get and let him walk.
We boo because we want to cheer. I wasn't at the Winter Weekend, but I have absolutely booed athletes under certain circumstances. A perfect example would be Durran not going after Tapia's inside the park homer last year. At the same time, I'm also amongst the first to stand for a solid pitching performance when I think the casual members of Fenway faithful don't truly appreciate such performances. The alternative here is to vote with our wallets. I could cancel my tickets (and at times I've debated it) or simply sell more of them. All of these are ways to address something you're dissatisfied with.
 
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OCD SS

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The impact of not getting under the cap was that two compensation picks they are getting will drop from 2nd round to the 5th round, along with a proportionate drop in spending pool money.

Given the low hit rate in the MLB draft once you get past the first round (the top 10, really), this seems like a very small price to pay. I can't believe people wanted them to punt on a 33% chance at the postseason in order to get a marginal gain in the draft.
... and of course if they had punted on the season everyone would have totally understood :rolleyes:

I would've like to see them jettison JD because I thought he was toast and that would've been enough to get them under the LT limit, but I think 1) it would've been reasonable to hope he had a bit of bounce back in him, and 2) I'm not sure on that math anyway.
 

simplicio

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... and of course if they had punted on the season everyone would have totally understood :rolleyes:

I would've like to see them jettison JD because I thought he was toast and that would've been enough to get them under the LT limit, but I think 1) it would've been reasonable to hope he had a bit of bounce back in him, and 2) I'm not sure on that math anyway.
And 3) he'd been hitting like absolute garbage for a month and a half straight at the deadline, so which team wanted to add him to their roster at all, let alone pay his salary?
 

Auger34

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Apr 23, 2010
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And 3) he'd been hitting like absolute garbage for a month and a half straight at the deadline, so which team wanted to add him to their roster at all, let alone pay his salary?
Reporting at the time and subsequently has said that there were a few suitors for him. I understand the reasoning for it but if Bloom wanted to jettison salary to get under the tax he absolutely had the chance to do it. They had a shot at the wild card and the FO made the decision to go that route, no need to stack the deck more or act like he had no opportunities to get rid of salary
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
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You can argue all you want that they had a chance at the playoffs, but they would have had to do far more than McGuire, Pham and Hosmer for that to be a realistic goal, let alone go deep in the playoffs. The 2022 deadline was a missed opportunity to reset the cap.

I agree that 1/3 shot at the playoffs isn't great. But it's far from nothing.

The 2021 Braves had a 17% chance at the postseason at the trade deadline, had lost their best player, and won the World Series.
The 2006 Cardinals won 83 games and won the World Series
The 1987 Twins won 85 games, had a negative run differential, and won the World Series.

"But they wouldn't have done anything even if they made the playoffs" doesn't hold up.

If someone had offered them two top 50 MLB prospects for Nate Eovladi, then yes, by all means trade him and get under the cap. But that wasn't on the table. The trade market was so tough that Willson Contreras and Carlos Rodon -- who signed for a combined 249.5 million this offseason -- were not dealt, despite being on teams in far worse situations than the Red Sox.

The notion that the Sox screwed up the 2022 deadline is nothing more than a myth.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I think they probably should have traded more vets to try to get under the tax, but they were so devoid of major league ready talent at the time- to the extent that they had to acquire Pham and Hosmer- it would have been a really hideous few months if they had dumped guys like JD, Eovaldi, Wacha, Boagerts, etc. I think they at least wanted to be competitive as the season concluded and there’s some value to that.

Whatever, what’s done is done at this point.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
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It was reported that the Mets were interested, but that the ask from Boston was a good bit beyond the salary dump range.

I think it is very likely that Boston could have traded JD without retaining any salary if they had wanted to. The return probably would not have been very big though.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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The guy who just posted a 136 OPS+, which was better than all but one of his seasons in Boston, has "regressed".

OK.
Oh come on, he's only had two top five MVP finishes in the three years since he left Boston. He's clearly not the player he once was!

I can't speak for others, and I know this is not what our brain trust would say they are shooting for, but given the choice between watching last year's non-competitive team featuring JBJ Mark 2, Franchy, Duran and Tommy Pham and watching a non-competitive team featuring Mookie Betts, I'd choose the latter every time.
 

OCD SS

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And 3) he'd been hitting like absolute garbage for a month and a half straight at the deadline, so which team wanted to add him to their roster at all, let alone pay his salary?
There appeared to be suitors, but not at the return Bloom wanted, which was reportedly talent and taking on his salary; if it was just a flyer prospect and absorbing his salary, then I think they might've found someone, after all, how many players have a bad month and then come back? I was pretty down on JD, and didn't think they'd offer him arb, so he was a candidate to be moved and replaced by someone not as famous, but likely to produce similarly (in my view) - that's basically what happened with Vazquez.

If also dumping Eovaldi was needed to get them under the CBT, then I don't think I would've done it as I thought they still had a possible (long) shot at making the wild card.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
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Jul 15, 2005
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I don’t “boo” my team. However, I do complain about things out loud: “Take him out, he’s done!” “Stay inbounds!” “Call time out!” All of that is critical, and it all sounds like booing in the stands, so I certainly can’t claim choir boy status.

But imo it’s one thing to criticize effort, lack thereof, or lack or attention. It’s another to boo lack of success. Guys strike out. They miss field goals. They miss free throws (ok, full admission, that bugs me, too.). But it’s not for lack of trying.

Do people here really think Bloom is just sitting on his ass doing nothing? That he’s not running out his ground balls?? If so, I call bull sh!t. There’s no evidence of that. And in that context, booing him for interim/incomplete results, is petulant. You’re not 12 years old (apologies to posters here who are, in fact, 12 years old.).

THAT’s the perspective and nuance many here are asking for. It’s not a black-and-white world, and too many posters here are treating it as such. (I could go into the trade deadline last year, and the fact that Bloom tried to take a “balanced” approach and to thread the eye of a small needle, but that nuance, too, would whoosh right by some posters.)
 

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
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And 3) he'd been hitting like absolute garbage for a month and a half straight at the deadline, so which team wanted to add him to their roster at all, let alone pay his salary?
Exactly. We keep going around and about on this stuff, bemoaning the lost opportunity that Bloom just couldn’t see cuz he’s clearly incompetent, without looking at what actually transpired.

They needed OF help and got a mediocre corner OF bat who did nothing. They brought in a C that didn’t even play every day and was ok but isn’t great. They shipped out a pitcher and brought in a pitcher who didn’t do much. And they were contending!

Oh, by the way, I’m talking about the Astros. I can’t believe they didn’t go full in to compete for a title. Really, they should have punted, if that’s all they were going to do.

The point? You can second guess everyone, and it’s particularly fun to do so when your team isn’t ultimately successful. But there wasn’t much activity last deadline, and rather than give players away, Bloom decided to cross his fingers and hope that injuries would abate and his $200M team would play like, you know, a $200M team. It didn’t happen. Live with it. It doesn’t make the decision-making at the time wrong or indefensible.
 

Cellar-Door

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Do people here really think Bloom is just sitting on his ass doing nothing? That he’s not running out his ground balls?? If so, I call bull sh!t. There’s no evidence of that. And in that context, booing him for interim/incomplete results, is petulant. You’re not 12 years old (apologies to posters here who are, in fact, 12 years old.).
I mean, I would guess the people booing him (and Henry) would say that it's as much about process/plan as it is about results, and so is a lot more comparable to booing a player for bad approach than bad results. Like if a guy comes on with 1 out and guys on and takes HR swings on 3 straight in the dirt, he's more likely to get booed than the guy who pops out on a tough 3-2 pitch.

They see him trading or letting walk all their favorite players to save money, but not putting that to use in putting out a title contender, which is their expectation for the Red Sox..... which isn't that unreasonable honestly, MLB isn't the NFL, it's much more like EPL where the revenue teams have built in advantages and a 5 year reset would be considered a big disappointment.

So they are booing him not just for poor results, but for a process and mindset they feel is bad. I don't have much of an issue with that thinking (even if I think booing is a bit much as a reaction), I think there is a lot in the last 4 years that indicates Bloom either doesn't have a great plan, or his plan is based more on cutting costs and maybe competing than on winning World Series. So apportioning can be tough, because if Bloom's mandate from ownership is "compete if you can, but we want to drastically reduce spending long term above all", well he's on track. If the goal is winning WS... less so.

Part of it also is... fans care about winning titles, they don't care about good financial stewardship, or sacrificing better title odds in the short term to avoid a bad contract long term. You don't get cheered for "best bang for your buck" or "didn't take on risk", nobody cheers accountants and actuaries.