Hi, I'm Kyle Schwarber and I hit bombs!

Petagine in a Bottle

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Schwarber is a LHH, so if there's a platoon with JD, I imagine JD would DH mostly against LHP's, which are about 1/3 of the pitching population. So, does JD play a ton more games in left to keep his (necessary) bat in the lineup?
Against lefties, seems like you can DH Schwarber, play JD in left, and Dalbec at first, right? In a perfect world, you’d have Hernandez in CF, Renfroe in RF, Arroyo at 2B and Verdugo on the bench.

It’s against righties where the issues come up. You really need someone other than Dalbec at first; seems like it’s gotta be Schwarber or Arroyo if that ship hasn’t sailed (and he’s ever healthy).
 

mauf

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We’re putting Kiké at first base why again? So we can accommodate Duran? Kiké is an exceptional center fielder. Duran is not, and he’s posted a .215 expected wOBA since his callup. Cordero, while not good, has been much better at .271.

I’m sure there’ll be a lot of configurations but I don’t think we need to play our best defensive outfielder fielder several notches down the spectrum for Duran’s sake.
Cora was a middle infielder whose glove carried his bat. If he’s playing his best defender at 1B, I trust that he’s privy to analytics that show that’s the best option. Because I’m sure that’s not his first instinct (as it is not yours, or mine either).
 

dynomite

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Cora was a middle infielder whose glove carried his bat. If he’s playing his best defender at 1B, I trust that he’s privy to analytics that show that’s the best option. Because I’m sure that’s not his first instinct (as it is not yours, or mine either).
It’s a good point, and while I trust the Sox front office at this point and I’m sure there’s a lot of reasoning behind this move, some of this smacks of desperation. Kiké at 1B, JD playing LF in the short term, etc.

The whole notion of playing Schwarber at 1B — and not also getting someone healthy like CJ Cron who could have played right away, including in these pivotal post-deadline series against the Jays/Rays — is a little odd.

And while I’m not a trainer and have no inside information, obviously, it’s hard not to feel like they’re rushing Schwarber back, only giving him a single rehab game at AAA and DHing him, presumably because he’s not quite healthy enough to play in LF or at 1B where he’s desperately needed.

Still, all that said I’m thrilled to add Schwarber’s bat to the lineup and if he’s regularly starting at 1B vs RHP by September I’ll be even happier.
 

mauf

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Still, all that said I’m thrilled to add Schwarber’s bat to the lineup and if he’s regularly starting at 1B vs RHP by September I’ll be even happier.
I don’t think we’ll see Schwarber at 1B. The only way he fills that hole is if him playing LF/DH frees up someone else to play 1B. Maybe the plan all along was to shift Verdugo back to CF and move Hernandez to 1B. (Or KH could play 1B/2B and Dalbec and Marwin could platoon.)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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It’s a good point, and while I trust the Sox front office at this point and I’m sure there’s a lot of reasoning behind this move, some of this smacks of desperation. Kiké at 1B, JD playing LF in the short term, etc.

The whole notion of playing Schwarber at 1B — and not also getting someone healthy like CJ Cron who could have played right away, including in these pivotal post-deadline series against the Jays/Rays — is a little odd.

And while I’m not a trainer and have no inside information, obviously, it’s hard not to feel like they’re rushing Schwarber back, only giving him a single rehab game at AAA and DHing him, presumably because he’s not quite healthy enough to play in LF or at 1B where he’s desperately needed.

Still, all that said I’m thrilled to add Schwarber’s bat to the lineup and if he’s regularly starting at 1B vs RHP by September I’ll be even happier.
Cron, ironically, got hurt two days before the trade deadline. He returned to the lineup on deadline day (post-deadline) and has been playing regularly since, but trading for him at the deadline would not have been acquiring a healthy player.
 

dynomite

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I don’t think we’ll see Schwarber at 1B. The only way he fills that hole is if him playing LF/DH frees up someone else to play 1B. Maybe the plan all along was to shift Verdugo back to CF and move Hernandez to 1B. (Or KH could play 1B/2B and Dalbec and Marwin could platoon.)
That may be, but I'd be willing to bet a small amount (it's been a tough year!) to the Jimmy Fund that he plays multiple games at 1B (5+?) by the end of September -- health permitting, of course. If the plan all along was to shift Hernandez to 1B, I doubt they would have been working Schwarber out there so much since acquiring him, and I do think (hope?) they would have acquired an actual 1B who could hit RHP even a little.

Cron, ironically, got hurt two days before the trade deadline. He returned to the lineup on deadline day (post-deadline) and has been playing regularly since, but trading for him at the deadline would not have been acquiring a healthy player.
I suppose that's fair, and I was talking about any of Cron/Schoop/Aguilar/Rizzo/etc.

That said, on Cron -- and I'm not relitigating the Cron decision, to be clear, just responding to the post -- (as you point out) he ended up missing maybe 1 game (and pinch hitting as opposed to going on the IL) at which point he returned to the lineup the night of the deadline and has played since, so to say Cron "would not have been acquiring a healthy player" I don't think is totally accurate, especially in comparison to a player like Schwarber who was actively on the IL with a significant hamstring injury. Indeed, it could probably have been resolved with a phone call to the Rockies front office (Q: "How serious is Cron's injury?" A: "He's fine, he's in the lineup tonight.") and maybe an MRI or whatever.
 

mauf

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That may be, but I'd be willing to bet a small amount (it's been a tough year!) to the Jimmy Fund that he plays multiple games at 1B (5+?) by the end of September -- health permitting, of course. If the plan all along was to shift Hernandez to 1B, I doubt they would have been working Schwarber out there so much since acquiring him, and I do think (hope?) they would have acquired an actual 1B who could hit RHP even a little.
I had forgotten that Schwarber was taking infield reps. I don’t think it’s a great idea, but you might be right about their intent.
 

Marciano490

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First base is a lot of scooping and stretching, which isn’t great for the hamstrings. Not that sprinting in the outfield is much better, but I’d think every play at first would involve some discomfort until the leg is 100%.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Kinda wild that he ended up with 0 rehab games, after all that. If he is DH, I’m assuming Cordero is at first, and Duran is the one out of the lineup? Incremental improvements, let’s hope he provides the emotional boost the team (or at least it’s fans) seem to need.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Kinda wild that he ended up with 0 rehab games, after all that. If he is DH, I’m assuming Cordero is at first, and Duran is the one out of the lineup? Incremental improvements, let’s hope he provides the emotional boost the team (or at least it’s fans) seem to need.
I think DHing against Baltimore is pretty much the same as DHing against whoever Worcester is playing, so eschewing the minor league rehab kinda makes sense.
 

Rovin Romine

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The trade deadline was July 30th. 105 games had been played by the Sox at the end of that day. 57 games remained.

By today's end 13 more games will been played with 44 remaining. Schwarber will have missed 22% of the post-deadline games.
Well, today's emergency call-up of Schwarber (and DFAing Cora's Right Arm) stops the clock: Schwarber has missed 12 games or 21% of the post deadline games.
 

dynomite

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I think DHing against Baltimore is pretty much the same as DHing against whoever Worcester is playing, so eschewing the minor league rehab kinda makes sense.
Well done.

Well, today's emergency call-up of Schwarber (and DFAing Cora's Right Arm) stops the clock: Schwarber has missed 12 games or 21% of the post deadline games.
First base is a lot of scooping and stretching, which isn’t great for the hamstrings. Not that sprinting in the outfield is much better, but I’d think every play at first would involve some discomfort until the leg is 100%.
I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but rushing him back -- with zero rehab games, less than a week after a "minor setback," when he's still apparently not well enough to play in the field -- feels a little risky (both to him and to a guy like Martinez, whose time in LF has been cut dramatically in recent seasons). The only thing worse than Schwarber missing these 12 post-deadline games would be him missing a bunch more games if he re-aggravates it.

But as said above: desperate times, desperate measures and all that.

Oh well! Let's hope Schwarber tanks one to Charlestown in his first AB and this all works out swimmingly.
 

Rovin Romine

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I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but rushing him back -- with zero rehab games, less than a week after a "minor setback," when he's still apparently not well enough to play in the field -- feels a little risky (both to him and to a guy like Martinez, whose time in LF has been cut dramatically in recent seasons). The only thing worse than Schwarber missing these 12 post-deadline games would be him missing a bunch more games if he re-aggravates it.

But as said above: desperate times, desperate measures and all that.

Oh well! Let's hope Schwarber tanks one to Charlestown in his first AB and this all works out swimmingly.
I wasn't making any recommendation, just noting that Schwarber had missed X number of games. Likewise I don't have enough data for a reasonable expectation going forward. As a fan I hope for the best, but time will tell if this is a wise risk or a stupid panicky idea.
 

YTF

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I don’t think we’ll see Schwarber at 1B. The only way he fills that hole is if him playing LF/DH frees up someone else to play 1B. Maybe the plan all along was to shift Verdugo back to CF and move Hernandez to 1B. (Or KH could play 1B/2B and Dalbec and Marwin could platoon.)
Quite honestly, this might not be popular among some here, but I'd like to see Arroyo get another try at first rather than trying to add that to Kike's resume. Kike'/Verdugo/ Renfroe/JD/Scwarber rotate through the outfield, JD/Schwarber at DH, Kike/Arroyo at 2nd, Dalbec/Arroyo/Schwarber at first. Notably absent is Duran who I would be in favor of going back to WOOster for a few weeks to work on some glaring deficiencies and coming back up when the rosters expand or perhaps he stays and Franchy goes down as he's not going to have much of a role here IF Arroyo gets any time at 1B.
 
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dynomite

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I wasn't making any recommendation, just noting that Schwarber had missed X number of games. Likewise I don't have enough data for a reasonable expectation going forward. As a fan I hope for the best, but time will tell if this is a wise risk or a stupid panicky idea.
Oh I know! Sorry if I was unclear. And obviously the Sox know a hell of a lot more than I do about his hamstring, recovery, and risk of re-injury. It’s just all a little… off from afar. But here’s hoping!
 

geoduck no quahog

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How can the best hitting lineup not include both JDM and Schwarber?

It's time to table Duran and use him off the bench. JDM in left, Verdugo in Center, Kike at 2B and dreck at 1B. That's not the greatest defense, but the lineup needs to be longer.

Imagine pitching your way through Hernandez / Devers / Bogaerts / Schwarber / Martinez / Renfroe / Verdugo / Plawecki / Dreck (or something like that)...
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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How can the best hitting lineup not include both JDM and Schwarber?

It's time to table Duran and use him off the bench. JDM in left, Verdugo in Center, Kike at 2B and dreck at 1B. That's not the greatest defense, but the lineup needs to be longer.

Imagine pitching your way through Hernandez / Devers / Bogaerts / Schwarber / Martinez / Renfroe / Verdugo / Plawecki / Dreck (or something like that)...
Is anyone arguing that JDM and Schwarber shouldn't be in the same lineup?

I expect that when Schwarber's hamstring is deemed ready for the field, we'll see him in LF or at 1B as often as he's at DH (with JD in LF), perhaps more. That 9th spot in your proposed lineup will probably be Dalbec or Duran in the short term, but I can see a time when it's Arroyo (at 1B or 2B).
 

YTF

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How can the best hitting lineup not include both JDM and Schwarber?

It's time to table Duran and use him off the bench. JDM in left, Verdugo in Center, Kike at 2B and dreck at 1B. That's not the greatest defense, but the lineup needs to be longer.

Imagine pitching your way through Hernandez / Devers / Bogaerts / Schwarber / Martinez / Renfroe / Verdugo / Plawecki / Dreck (or something like that)...
As mentioned above, I'm good with Arroyo being added into that mix when he's available. Going forward, the rotation should show a vast improvement and Schwarber, Verdugo, Plawecki and Arroyo extends that lineup where Gonzales, Duran, Vazquez and Dalbec/Cordero just created a black hole at the bottom.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Do you see Arroyo putting Herenandez back in CF with Verdugo sitting? I have no real problem with that. I'm still asuming Schwarber does not play 1B.
 

YTF

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Do you see Arroyo putting Herenandez back in CF with Verdugo sitting? I have no real problem with that. I'm still asuming Schwarber does not play 1B.
I see massive rotation with some of these guys getting regular AB's while affording others an occasional day off that hopefully strengthens the bench should the need for a PH arise. Some days Kike' in CF, Arroyo at 2B, Verdugo gets a day off. Other days Renfroe might benefit from a breather. Some days Verdugo, Kike' and Renfroe in the OF, Arroyo at 2B and JD or Schwarber at DH and one gets a day off. Vaz and Plawecki should platoon. Your go to lineup has Verdugo/Kike'/Renfroe in the OF, Devers/Xander/Arroyo/Schwarber around the horn, JD at DH and Plaw/Vaz depending on circumstances behind the dish. Getting Rafi and Borgaerts days off will be a bit trickier defensively, but Cora can figure that out during days when the likes of Balt, Minn, Wash, Tex and Cleve. are on the schedule. I guess that would leave a bench of Dalbec catcher and one of Duran or ?.
 
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chawson

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Do you see Arroyo putting Herenandez back in CF with Verdugo sitting? I have no real problem with that. I'm still asuming Schwarber does not play 1B.
I think this makes sense against LHP certainly. Verdugo’s sudden collapse against southpaws this year seems like an underrecognized storyline. He’s hit .207/.252/.253 (.505 OPS) against southpaws this year after hitting .312/.350/.437 (.788) against them coming into 2021. His neutral hitting splits seemed like a big reason he was a better fit going forward than Benintendi, and I hope they help him work on it a bunch this winter.

Schwarber doesn’t have the same power vs. LHP, but his 15.1% walk rate (.376 OBP) against them this year plays a lot better in the lineup than Verdugo’s 5%.
 

Le Bastonois

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You need to do better than this.

If you think Schwarber is cheating, state your case. A hamstring injury isn’t some sort of smoking gun.
No actually, the list is long from both those individuals with exactly the same injury over and over again. Please walk back the sanctimony. I've been there all those years too big guy.
 

mauf

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No actually, the list is long from both those individuals with exactly the same injury over and over again. Please walk back the sanctimony. I've been there all those years too big guy.
In case I wasn’t clear, I was speaking as a mod. You can make whatever accusations you can back up. You don’t get to make blanket accusations without showing your work.
 

Detts

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I played 1st until my arm developed because I was tall. 1B defense is sooooooooooooooo underated. Bad throws from infielders are worse than hard grounders.
Did RF because I had a cannon after that. Lost a ball in the lights and I broke my nose in 7 places. Moved to 3rd and stuck there. Still took a year to not be afraid of pop ups.
 

cantor44

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Watching Kyle Schwarber hit is a total joy. The man has superb pitch recognition/control of the strike zone/restraint ... It's like suddenly a grown up walked into a room of spastic teenagers ... Seeing him hit kinda reveals so much of the rest of the team/coaching ...Now if only he could play first base.
 

RobertS975

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Watching Kyle Schwarber hit is a total joy. The man has superb pitch recognition/control of the strike zone/restraint ... It's like suddenly a grown up walked into a room of spastic teenagers ... Seeing him hit kinda reveals so much of the rest of the team/coaching ...Now if only he could play first base.
But don't you hold your breath every time he runs the bases?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I realize that he's a FA and there's a lot of NL openings for DH's next season in the NL so his market will be pretty high and there'll also be incentive for JDM to opt out but I really like his approach. Yeah.. just seeing a guy taking a BB because he's not getting a good pitch to clobber brings me back to the '03 and '04 lineups.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Watching Kyle Schwarber hit is a total joy. The man has superb pitch recognition/control of the strike zone/restraint ... It's like suddenly a grown up walked into a room of spastic teenagers ... Seeing him hit kinda reveals so much of the rest of the team/coaching ...Now if only he could play first base.
Or catcher? Hasn’t caught a game since 2017 (just 22 games there total in his career), but as recently as 2019 was the Cubs’ emergency catcher, expressing openness to playing there. I assume it’s a non-starter due to lack of familiarity with the staff, but for fun, imagine being able to run out…

CF Kiké .794 OPS
3B Devers .907
SS Bogaerts .904
C Schwarber .931
DH Martinez .891
LF Verdugo .769
RF Renfroe .800
2B Arroyo .792
1B Dalbec .710
 
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Philip Jeff Frye

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It's also probably a non starter in that if he were capable of playing catcher in a regular basis, he wouldn't be starting at the age of 29. Has that ever happened in the modern history of MLB?
 

thestardawg

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Or catcher? Hasn’t caught a game since 2017 (just 22 games there total in his career), but as recently as 2019 was the Cubs’ emergency catcher, expressing openness to playing there. I assume it’s a non-starter due to lack of familiarity with the staff, but for fun, imagine being able to run out…

CF Kike .794 OPS
3B Devers .907
SS Bogaerts .904
C Schwarber .931
Schwarber catching is rapidly becoming Pedroia giving up his salary on sosh

he hasnt caught a game in 5 years

he wasn’t any good at it when he was playing there

he has a history of core and leg injuries

I mean what could go wrong?
 

Sam Ray Not

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Schwarber catching is rapidly becoming Pedroia giving up his salary on sosh

he hasnt caught a game in 5 years

he wasn’t any good at it when he was playing there

he has a history of core and leg injuries

I mean what could go wrong?
Ha — all good points. Pretty sure we (or at least I) had the same fantasy regarding Napoli, who actually had a much more proven track record at C than Schwarber does, and played zero games there in his 2.5 seasons with us.

Anyway, it’s a fun lineup to ponder for an emergency few innings. Among the slightly more realistic “ultimate offense” options, I’d think the best version of the lineup (offensively) involves: Vaz at C, with Schwarber moving to DH, JD to LF, Doogie to CF, Kiké to first, and Dalbec to the bench? So basically the same lineup as above, with Vaz replacing Dalbec.

Yeah, Kiké at first is a waste of his defensive skills (plus he’s a bit short there); just thinking of ways to get all the best bats in the same lineup.
 
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cantor44

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Ha — all good points. Pretty sure we (or at least I) had the same fantasy regarding Napoli, who actually had a much more proven track record at C than Schwarber does, and played zero games there in his 2.5 seasons with us.

Anyway, it’s a fun lineup to ponder for an emergency few innings. Among the more realistic “ultimate offense” options, I’d think the best version of the lineup (offensively) involves: Vaz at C, with Schwarber moving to DH, JD to LF, Doogie to CF, Kike to first, and Dalbec to the bench?
the crazy thing is that his presence on the team is reducing Renfroe's playing time, rather than Dalbec's ....kinda ridiculous ...
 

YTF

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Ha — all good points. Pretty sure we (or at least I) had the same fantasy regarding Napoli, who actually had a much more proven track record at C than Schwarber does, and played zero games there in his 2.5 seasons with us.

Anyway, it’s a fun lineup to ponder for an emergency few innings. Among the more realistic “ultimate offense” options, I’d think the best version of the lineup (offensively) involves: Vaz at C, with Schwarber moving to DH, JD to LF, Doogie to CF, Kike to first, and Dalbec to the bench? So basically the same lineup as above, with Vaz replacing Dalbec.
Also from what I understand, the only reason that he caught at IU was they needed to find a way to get his bat into that lineup.
 

Sam Ray Not

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1.205 OPS in his 42 plate appearances with the Sox, including a Bondsian .571 OBP.

Dave O’Brien noted during last night’s game that Schwarber didn’t want to be thought of as just a “three true outcome” guy. I quipped in the game thread that I’m fine with a three true outcome guy who never strikes out.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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His career rates are 13% walks and 28% strikeouts, in Washington this year he was 10% and 29%, while he’s been 29% and 17% for the Sox. His 944 OPS this year is 70 points higher than his best season; he’s only had one year better than what JD is doing this year. I think JD will opt out and don’t think the Sox should make much effort to bring him back….but while I like Schwarber, doesn’t this look like a career year? He’s 28 with a career line of 236 / 341 / 493. Hard to tell what his market is, he didn’t have much of one last year. I wouldn’t want to go more than 3 years at like $13-$14M per…but if one team sees this year as his new normal, I’m assuming he beats that handily.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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His career rates are 13% walks and 28% strikeouts, in Washington this year he was 10% and 29%, while he’s been 29% and 17% for the Sox. His 944 OPS this year is 70 points higher than his best season; he’s only had one year better than what JD is doing this year. I think JD will opt out and don’t think the Sox should make much effort to bring him back….but while I like Schwarber, doesn’t this look like a career year? He’s 28 with a career line of 236 / 341 / 493. Hard to tell what his market is, he didn’t have much of one last year. I wouldn’t want to go more than 3 years at like $13-$14M per…but if one team sees this year as his new normal, I’m assuming he beats that handily.
A few things go note. First is that, while it’s true this is an outlier season for Schwarber, he’s only actually played 3 full years. In his other 3 seasons, he’s played under 70 games in each (including 2 in one) so it’s extremely possible this is who he is and not an outlier.

Additionally, he’s gotten pretty unlucky in his career. His .301 BABIP this year is a career high. None of his three full seasons posted over .288, including a .244 in 2017 (and.219 last year, which I wasn’t counting as a full year even though he played in all but one game). He’s underperformed his xBA, xSLG, and xwOBA every season of his career, other than his rookie season he had a higher average than xBA.

This is just to note that it’s at least possible that his performance this season is the real him, due to relatively small sample size overall and the fact that he’s been unlucky all of his career (of course, it’s very possible bad BABIP is due to the types of balls he hits, but I was too lazy to go through that data)
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Good points, I hadn’t realized he had only really played three full seasons. He’s only 28 so the great season doesn’t seem as fluky as it would if he was like 31. I guess I’m talking myself into a 5 year deal which doesn’t take you too deep into what you’d expect to be his decline, if at all…Maybe like 5/$75?
 

OCD SS

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I continue to dream that JD opts out and the Sox sign Schwarber instead, to be their DH/sometimes 1B/sometimes LF for the next 4-5 years. Any thoughts on what it would take?
JD hitting well enough that it’s worth him opting out, for one thing.

I’d much rather have Schwarber than JD, at what point do you have to start cutting his playing time?
 

azsoxpatsfan

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JD hitting well enough that it’s worth him opting out, for one thing.

I’d much rather have Schwarber than JD, at what point do you have to start cutting his playing time?
JD is hitting so well that he’ll opt out, but he’s bad enough that the Sox should cut his playing time?
 

YTF

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JD hitting well enough that it’s worth him opting out, for one thing.

I’d much rather have Schwarber than JD, at what point do you have to start cutting his playing time?
We might need to wait until the end of the season to determine that. While he's now hitting an over all respectable .280, that's his low mark since game #1 of the season. He's dropped 40 points since June first and at a time when batting averages rise and fall at a slower rate, it continues to steadily go down. In his last 30 games, Martinez is hitting a paltry .202. If this trend continues, he's going to have a tough decision to make. Take the guaranteed 19.37 MIL or opt out and risk taking less on a one year with someone else while hoping to get a multi year. A shitty September/October isn't going to bode well for him.
 

Detts

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Also from what I understand, the only reason that he caught at IU was they needed to find a way to get his bat into that lineup.
You are correct. It was the only place you could hide his crappy defense.
 

beautokyo

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I don't get to watch that many games but most folks keep harping on his D. How many bad plays has he had thus far?
Also, why isn't he hitting lead off?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't get to watch that many games but most folks keep harping on his D. How many bad plays has he had thus far?
Also, why isn't he hitting lead off?
He hasn't really botched anything that has come his way yet, but he's got almost zero range so he's not getting to a lot either.

He's leading off today, for what it's worth.