Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.

[Cellar-Door]

So, here's an honest question for folks who played or coached the game (and especially if you ran passing routes)... why do guys repeatedly do this stuff? Is is...

1. they're trying to time their cuts, and not covering the right distance in time;
2. they lose track of where on the field they are, and where they're supposed to go;
3. they're reacting to the defense, but in inconsistent ways;
4. something(s) else?

or a combination of the above?

I don't have enough personal knowledge to say, but there are a lot of former WRs and film guys on youtube who can give you some ideas.

Things I know are issues for WRs:
1. Option routes, you have to see the defense and adjust (Edelman on one of the podcasts he's on mentioned sometimes he'd have a route where he had 6+ things he could do)
2. timing (see the Polk/Henry play against the Jags that came up on O'Sullivan's QB breakdown, where a late start off the line ruined the spacing)
3. related to #2, but defense... don't get off the jam, get bodied off your line, etc.
4. Guys just can't tell where they are in relation to the sticks, get sped up or something.
5. Guys get a little lazy, don't make the cut quite sharp enough, don't think they're getting targeted.
6. Miss the audible/kill.
7. misidentify coverage.
8. don't see and adjust to the QB leaving the pocket

 

[dynomite]

Mayo when asked this morning about choosing the side in OT:
Wow. Sounds like they just went with what they determined pregame for the opening kickoff.
Not exactly striking confidence with that quote.

It's this kind of thing that surprises me, if true.

How could you coach for Belichick for a number of seasons -- who I picture wanting wind updates every 10 minutes, and won that Broncos game in OT because of the wind and that game in Buffalo where Mac threw 3 passes in '21 -- and not think to check this?

 

[BusRaker]

Isn't it part of the coaches job to notice obvious things like "the wind"? I really had hope for Mayo but he's shown me nothing aside from a linebacker being elevated to head coach. We had them by the jugular at the end of the game and decided to punt the game to overtime where we had probably a 60% chance to lose.

That said draft position is looking a lot better, but I think Maye is going to win us some ballgames this year and I have no problem with that.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I don't have enough personal knowledge to say, but there are a lot of former WRs and film guys on youtube who can give you some ideas.

Things I know are issues for WRs:
1. Option routes, you have to see the defense and adjust (Edelman on one of the podcasts he's on mentioned sometimes he'd have a route where he had 6+ things he could do)
2. timing (see the Polk/Henry play against the Jags that came up on O'Sullivan's QB breakdown, where a late start off the line ruined the spacing)
3. related to #2, but defense... don't get off the jam, get bodied off your line, etc.
4. Guys just can't tell where they are in relation to the sticks, get sped up or something.
5. Guys get a little lazy, don't make the cut quite sharp enough, don't think they're getting targeted.
6. Miss the audible/kill.
7. misidentify coverage.
8. don't see and adjust to the QB leaving the pocket

Helpful-- thanks

 

[leetinsley38]

It's this kind of thing that surprises me, if true.

How could you coach for Belichick for a number of seasons -- who I picture wanting wind updates every 10 minutes, and won that Broncos game in OT because of the wind and that game in Buffalo where Mac threw 3 passes in '21 -- and not think to check this?

Mayo is learning. Now he knows the wind can shift over the course of 3 hours.

 

[BigJimEd]

Mayo is learning. Now he knows the wind can shift over the course of 3 hours.

Also means they haven't bothered to check the wind at halftime in case it has changed.

 

[8slim]

Mayo when asked this morning about choosing the side in OT:
Wow. Sounds like they just went with what they determined pregame for the opening kickoff.
Not exactly striking confidence with that quote.

This is... well, it's awful. And it's 100% on Mayo. Huge, huge, mistake.

Honestly, this bothers me more than just about any in game decision he's made all season.

It's inexcusable. The job really may be too big for him.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Belichick would have had Bluetooth enabled wind sensors connected to his microsoft surface tablet for instant updates. Mayo wets his thumb and sticks it in the air.

 

[leetinsley38]

Belichick would have had Bluetooth enabled wind sensors connected to his microsoft surface tablet for instant updates. Mayo wets his thumb and sticks it in the air.

He didn't even do that. Glance at the flags. Throw a few blades of grass up in the air. Then make a decision and tell your captain what side you want to defend. It’s literally a high school coach level decision that he failed on.

 

[lexrageorge]

Also means they haven't bothered to check the wind at halftime in case it has changed.

Has a team ever changed the side of the field at halftime?

 

[BigJimEd]

Has a team ever changed the side of the field at halftime?

It's the same as the opening kickoff. Team chooses which side they'd like.
I'm assuming Mayo goes with whatever they decided pregame regardless of current conditions.

 

[lexrageorge]

It's the same as the opening kickoff. Team chooses which side they'd like.
I'm assuming Mayo goes with whatever they decided pregame regardless of current conditions.

I know teams can change sides. I’m not sure I’ve seen it, but it could be I just never cared enough to notice.

 

[BigJimEd]

I know teams can change sides. I’m not sure I’ve seen it, but it could be I just never cared enough to notice.

Yeah, you wouldn't necessarily notice.

I'm just surprised there isn't a process in place that includes discussing the current conditions. Pretty basic stuff.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Yeah, you wouldn't necessarily notice.

I'm just surprised there isn't a process in place that includes discussing the current conditions. Pretty basic stuff.

Well, let's see if it comes up again. My guess is that someone on staff is adding "field conditions monitor" to their CV or its no longer an empty title.

If they make the same mistake or a similar one going forward that would be a bad sign.

 

[chilidawg]

Well, let's see if it comes up again. My guess is that someone on staff is adding "field conditions monitor" to their CV or its no longer an empty title.

If they make the same mistake or a similar one going forward that would be a bad sign.

You would think the special teams guys would be paying attention to the wind.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

You would think the special teams guys would be paying attention to the wind.

I assume that this stuff is already covered because it seems so basic.

That said, we are filling in a lot of blanks here and its hard to argue that the failure to account for the wind is what actually lost the game - that throw was objectively terrible and the Pats didn't execute well overall - so its not fatal.

However, as we know, attention to detail can be the margin in a lot of these games. The Mayo led staff bears watching on this front.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

If Mayo isn't licking his index finger and checking the wind before every coin toss, I want his ass fired.

 

[Bigdogx]

Is there any "NFL head coaching for Dummies" guides available that we can send to Mayo?

Looks like the Cowboys could use one for NFL Trades after sending a 4th round pick for Mingo, almost as idiotic as sending a 2nd for Sanu.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Feel like today was a great example of how good a job the Patriots (AVP, McCartney, etc.) have done coaching Maye. He's still got plenty of flaws, but he's drastically improved in some of his weaker areas, and the playcalling is trying to put him in position to use his best traits (scramble lanes) while usually giving him one or two easy options. Conversely... Williams had one of his worst games, but that offense is a pure mess, few easy options, lot of dead plays.

 

[Justthetippett]

Feel like today was a great example of how good a job the Patriots (AVP, McCartney, etc.) have done coaching Maye. He's still got plenty of flaws, but he's drastically improved in some of his weaker areas, and the playcalling is trying to put him in position to use his best traits (scramble lanes) while usually giving him one or two easy options. Conversely... Williams had one of his worst games, but that offense is a pure mess, few easy options, lot of dead plays.

They definitely looked more put together today than the Chicago staff. Aside from the bonehead INT I thought Maye played pretty well. He has a ton of talent and it shows. Easy arm strength. Just about every play has a chance with him. I thought his designed roll outs generally looked pretty good (the illegal downfield penalty was a bummer but that play was nice otherwise). More of that will continue to give him options for some easy gains. AVP called a nice game.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Feel like today was a great example of how good a job the Patriots (AVP, McCartney, etc.) have done coaching Maye. He's still got plenty of flaws, but he's drastically improved in some of his weaker areas, and the playcalling is trying to put him in position to use his best traits (scramble lanes) while usually giving him one or two easy options. Conversely... Williams had one of his worst games, but that offense is a pure mess, few easy options, lot of dead plays.

I liked most of the playcalling today. Only exception was on the drive that led to the 16-3 FG. They were moving the ball well on the goriumd, but I didn't like that they waiting until 3rd and long before calling a pass play. (This ended up being the throw that could have been picked in the end zone). I would have liked to see them throw on second or just commit all the way to the run and run on the third down. I realize this is a relatively minor point.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I liked most of the playcalling today. Only exception was on the drive that led to the 16-3 FG. They were moving the ball well on the goriumd, but I didn't like that they waiting until 3rd and long before calling a pass play. (This ended up being the throw that could have been picked in the end zone). I would have liked to see them throw on second or just commit all the way to the run and run on the third down. I realize this is a relatively minor point.

I think the staff is getting more comfortable calling a game for Maye.

 

[Salva135]

Last year they would have been satisfied with that late half stop and been content to kneel at the 40 at the half. The decision to try to get points there said a ton about their confidence in Maye and how he can handle a late half drill.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Last year they would have been satisfied with that late half stop and been content to kneel at the 40 at the half. The decision to try to get points there said a ton about their confidence in Maye and how he can handle a late half drill.

Last year they had the worst QB the league has ever seen. This year they have a real one.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Last year they had the worst QB the league has ever seen. This year they have a real one.

Boy, this game today brought back some great memories...

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Boy, this game today brought back some great memories...

View attachment 91599

It was so obvious coming out of Alabama. I know why they did it, but that draft pick was so awful. Zero tools, awful mechanics, poor mental makeup. What possibly could have gone wrong.

 

[Salva135]

Last year they had the worst QB the league has ever seen. This year they have a real one.

Yep. And very glad they made their decisions accordingly.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I was about to post this in the Jets thread, but since it's not really about the Jets I'll bring it over here instead

Am I stupid for wanting the Pats to bring in Saleh on some sort of "special advisor" or "consultant" deal to give Demarcus Covington someone to bounce ideas off of, confide in, and think through all things related to being a DC? Covington is yet another guy on the staff who's in his role for the first time and presumably on the steep part of a few learning curves

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I was about to post this in the Jets thread, but since it's not really about the Jets I'll bring it over here instead

Am I stupid for wanting the Pats to bring in Saleh on some sort of "special advisor" or "consultant" deal to give Demarcus Covington someone to bounce ideas off of, confide in, and think through all things related to being a DC? Covington is yet another guy on the staff who's in his role for the first time and presumably on the steep part of a few learning curves

He got gobbled up by GB (he and LaFleur are apparently close) for that kind of role weeks ago.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

He got gobbled up by GB (he and LaFleur are apparently close) for that kind of role weeks ago.

Ah! There you go

Shows how much I'm paying attention. (Or not)

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Ah! There you go

Shows how much I'm paying attention. (Or not)

FWIW, it hasn’t been widely reported; I only heard someone mention it in passing on some football podcast.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Is Mayo the single most risk averse coach the NFL has seen since the days of Rod Rust?

 

[FL4WL3SS]

On a 3-7 team, no less. He's cost the team 12 points already this game

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Punted from inside the 40 in Rams' territory instead of either a long FG try or go for it on 4th.
Kicked the FG instead of going for it when down 11.
Doesn't go for 2 after scoring to cut it down to 9.

Honestly one of the worst coaching performances of all time today. He's killing the Pats.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Punted from inside the 40 in Rams' territory instead of either a long FG try or go for it on 4th.
Kicked the FG instead of going for it when down 11.
Doesn't go for 2 after scoring to cut it down to 9.

Honestly one of the worst coaching performances of all time today. He's killing the Pats.

You can add to this how often he takes the ball out of Maye's hands.

• First and goal at the Rams 5: Maye incompletion, 2 Stevenson runs, FG
• Second and 4 at the Rams 22: 2 Stevenson runs, false start, FG

They needed a TD on one of those two drives, and Mayo got only one shot to Stevenson's 4.

This is either Mayo doing some creative subtle tanking or Mayo being an absolute dolt.

 

[jsinger121]

The weak Boston media probably won’t even call him out on his softness as a coach either.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

You can add to this how often he takes the ball out of Maye's hands.

• First and goal at the Rams 5: Maye incompletion, 2 Stevenson runs, FG
• Second and 4 at the Rams 22: 2 Stevenson runs, false start, FG

This is either Mayo doing some creative subtle tanking or Mayo being an absolute dolt.

They also blitzed Stafford all game despite the fact that he's a premier blitz beater. They never adjusted from blitzing Caleb Wiliams last week. It's a fireable offense.

 

[Cellar-Door]

My take on the staff through just under 11 games....
AVP- he's a perfectly viable OC, Maye has improved as has the offense, he's been vanilla, but some of that is likely a young and bad OL/WR group.
Covington... concerning, he's inconsistent, he doesn't adjust in-game.
Mayo..... he's legitimately a contender for worst in-game HC in the NFL in years, he's abysmal, he doesn't improve, he isn't even consistent, he's just legit terrible with no indications he'll ever not be.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I'm guessing that everyone in the stadium knew that with 2:06 on the clock, the Pats were going to run the ball, which they did.

 

[GreyisGone]

They just need to back a truck up for Ben Johnson. Sell him on Maye, a bunch of money to spend, and draft capital.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

They get aggressive at the end of the game when they don't need to, don't be aggressive early in the game when they needed to. Twilight Zone.

 

[Euclis20]

That cover 0 call was mind-numbingly awful, and they didn't even get any pressure. This was the worst game of the year for the sidelines, and that's saying something.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

You can add to this how often he takes the ball out of Maye's hands.

• First and goal at the Rams 5: Maye incompletion, 2 Stevenson runs, FG
• Second and 4 at the Rams 22: 2 Stevenson runs, false start, FG

They needed a TD on one of those two drives, and Mayo got only one shot to Stevenson's 4.

This is either Mayo doing some creative subtle tanking or Mayo being an absolute dolt.

Not sure why you’re attributing direct blame to Mayo on that. Those would be AVP calls and he is, as Mayo says, the “head coach of the offense”

 

[johnmd20]

They just need to back a truck up for Ben Johnson. Sell him on Maye, a bunch of money to spend, and draft capital.

This is what Kraft should try to do. But he won't.

 

[Ale Xander]

RKK can’t take the ego hit to get rid of Mayo after just one year

Jon would do it but it’s not his call yet

 

[Salem's Lot]

The weak Boston media probably won’t even call him out on his softness as a coach either.

You already know the answer to that. It’s all a bunch of guys on the beat that are afraid of losing access. Will McDonough ain’t walking through that door.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

You already know the answer to that. It’s all a bunch of guys on the beat that are afraid of losing access. Will McDonough ain’t walking through that door.

Even McDonough didn't do it, he was besties with Parcells and didn't even call him out on playing footsie with the Jets during Super Bowl week.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Wrong thread

 

[Ed Hillel]

Remember, this is the coach that called his players "soft."

 

[Cellar-Door]

RKK can’t take the ego hit to get rid of Mayo after just one year

Jon would do it but it’s not his call yet

Maybe Kraft can join Woody Johnson in getting an ambassadorship somewhere?