Hold the Mayo? Evaluating Patriots coaching.

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Cellar-Door

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I think if you keep Mayo, you have to force him to fire/demote Covington, the offense looks like a competent unit that is being killed by the lack of O-line talent, the defense looks like a team underperforming their talent, and one that consistently lack answers.
 

Kramerica Industries

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I think if you keep Mayo, you have to force him to fire/demote Covington, the offense looks like a competent unit that is being killed by the lack of O-line talent, the defense looks like a team underperforming their talent, and one that consistently lack answers.
Agreed. But shouldn't the HC who suppossed expertise be able to supply some answers?
 

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I think if you keep Mayo, you have to force him to fire/demote Covington, the offense looks like a competent unit that is being killed by the lack of O-line talent, the defense looks like a team underperforming their talent, and one that consistently lack answers.
I'm onboard with this. Even assigning the lion's share of blame to Mayo, Covington's not shown us anything so he should be an easy fall guy.
 

Cellar-Door

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Agreed. But shouldn't the HC who suppossed expertise be able to supply some answers?
Sure, but they have said they want him to be a CEO head coach and delegate a lot. AVP has shown some capability on offense, and you don't want to switch OCs on your QB who is developing well. Defense has shown nothing.

Other option is obviously to fire Mayo and start over, but... I don't think it happens. Is it maybe a bit unfair to Covington who was promoted too quick... yeah maybe, that's life in the NFL.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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If they do not fire Mayo at the earliest opportunity, then I am absolutely sure that they were botch this rebuild and waste the talent of Maye to a degree not seen since Jim Plunkett. Everything Mayo does sabotages the team's chances to win, he literally does nothing positively, and if they keep losing then at some point Maye is going to get frustrated and either start doing too much or will start figuring out his exit strategy.

You cannot continue to botch strategic decisions in game after game after game and expect that things are just going to work themselves out.

He has to go. Immediately.
 

Van Everyman

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Sure, but they have said they want him to be a CEO head coach and delegate a lot. AVP has shown some capability on offense, and you don't want to switch OCs on your QB who is developing well. Defense has shown nothing.

Other option is obviously to fire Mayo and start over, but... I don't think it happens. Is it maybe a bit unfair to Covington who was promoted too quick... yeah maybe, that's life in the NFL.
Assuming they don’t follow the SMJ Method of FIRING. PEOPLE. IMMEDIATELY, I mentioned Daboll if he becomes available as an AHC so you could kind of use to buffer AVP to ensure continuity for Maye but also address the poor play on the OL and failure to develop at the WR position.

I also wonder if one topic of discussion during the offseason is whether the attitude change from Grumpy Lobsterman to Everybody Loves Jerrod needs some adjustment in light of the discipline problems. Could be that a new DC could address that at least in part.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Drake Maye is the reason why they are in these games. I’m not sure how much credit you can give to Mayo. And yes, he’s a terrible in-game coach and doesn’t seem to be learning from his mistakes.

There’s just too much at stake with what looks like an NFL lottery ticket with Drake at QB. They can’t afford to dick around, and I think there’s real damage that can be done to young players by losing week after week, particularly if the coaching staff is doing more to put you in position to lose than to win.
This is 100% it. This is big business and you simply cannot have repeat mistakes at this level. It would be one thing if he was learning on the job but he continues to make the same mistakes. You have an unbelievably valuable asset that you cannot risk and if Kraft keeps Mayo he proves he’s not a HOF owner.
 

Cellar-Door

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Assuming they don’t follow the SMJ Method of FIRING. PEOPLE. IMMEDIATELY, I mentioned Daboll if he becomes available as an AHC so you could kind of use to buffer AVP to ensure continuity for Maye but also address the poor play on the OL and failure to develop at the WR position.

I also wonder if one topic of discussion during the offseason is whether the attitude change from Grumpy Lobsterman to Everybody Loves Jerrod needs some adjustment in light of the discipline problems. Could be that a new DC could address that at least in part.
I like Daboll, he's a fine hire, but he doesn't really have any OL or WR background or evidence he's good at developing them, his whole claim to fame is his usage of running QBs like Allen/Jones. Adding him to the staff would be fine, but probably not really address any of their issues. If you're adding a fired HC to consult.... I think Salah is probably a better pick. Making him DC would be even better.
 

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Sure, but they have said they want him to be a CEO head coach and delegate a lot. AVP has shown some capability on offense, and you don't want to switch OCs on your QB who is developing well. Defense has shown nothing.

Other option is obviously to fire Mayo and start over, but... I don't think it happens. Is it maybe a bit unfair to Covington who was promoted too quick... yeah maybe, that's life in the NFL.
Does Mayo do anything well besides delegate and consider the job done?

I actually don't have many complaints with Van Pelt. He deserves credit for Maye. But he's not the reason to keep Mayo, he is a JAG OC with a antiquated offensive style .
 

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I like Daboll, he's a fine hire, but he doesn't really have any OL or WR background or evidence he's good at developing them. Adding him to the staff would be fine, but probably not really address any of their issues. If you're adding a fired HC to consult.... I think Salah is probably a better pick. Making him DC would be even better.
Salah is now in Green Bay as a consultant and I expect he's happy there.

Bringing Daboll onto the staff won't happen as it will be seen as a threat to Mayo's job. And while I want Mayo gone, I don't think Kraft does so Daboll won't be coming here either.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Assuming they don’t follow the SMJ Method of FIRING. PEOPLE. IMMEDIATELY, I mentioned Daboll if he becomes available as an AHC so you could kind of use to buffer AVP to ensure continuity for Maye but also address the poor play on the OL and failure to develop at the WR position.

I also wonder if one topic of discussion during the offseason is whether the attitude change from Grumpy Lobsterman to Everybody Loves Jerrod needs some adjustment in light of the discipline problems. Could be that a new DC could address that at least in part.
Maybe…I would hope they look at Flo…lots of parallels to BB. Keep AVP
 

NomarsFool

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Mayo is a shitty in game coach but the Pats seem ready to play every week given the roster. I cannot imagine a firing.
What does "ready to play" mean, though? I mean, the team makes lots of mistakes. I realize they lack talent, and you can sort of excuse some of the mistakes because they are at least sometimes tied to the poor talent. If they executed flawlessly, but just got beat - that would be an example of a coach making chicken salad out of chicken excrement. That's not the impression I get. The defensive and offensive game plans hardly seem brilliant.
 

88 MVP

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At the start of the season, my thinking was that Mayo might have some growing pains, but the roster lacked talent and the team would need to give him a couple seasons/drafts/training camps to get comfortable in the job, add some talent to the roster, and start a turnaround.

At this point, I've seen enough. I hope the team cuts bait as soon as possible. Wasting a timeout when the Colts were down to 4th and goal, disorganized, and clearly going to call a TO themselves was criminal. (As was the final drive playcalling and decision to try a 68 yard FG).
 

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For those who subscribe to the Bob Kraft Wants To Show Everyone How Much He Knows Football thesis of how these decisions are made, I think that makes it even more likely that he sticks with Mayo. Some seem to see that being an impetus for him to make a decisive move to cut Mayo, but I think it’s more likely to put him in the mind to have Mayo prove to everyone how much football he (Kraft) knows when he develops into a winning coach next season.

I’m not saying that that’s correct, best, or even that the thesis is correct, but that’s the theory of the case I see there. i.e. for Kraft to really show the world, he needs Mayo to succeed next year, come hell or high water.
 

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They are the 5th most penalized team in the league. To say they are undisciplined is an understatement. Mayo is not the guy to turn this ship around.
 

8slim

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They are the 5th most penalized team in the league. To say they are undisciplined is an understatement. Mayo is not the guy to turn this ship around.
Is this based on total penalties? Because I’m looking at penalties per game and I see the Pats are tied at 10th worst at 6.8. However, the league median is 6.3. It’s not good, but I don’t know if I’d say he’s not the guy because if 0.5 penalties per game.
 

Traut

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Is this based on total penalties? Because I’m looking at penalties per game and I see the Pats are tied at 10th worst at 6.8. However, the league median is 6.3. It’s not good, but I don’t know if I’d say he’s not the guy because if 0.5 penalties per game.
Yes total penalties. Penalties per game is probably more accurate as they haven’t had their bye week and many teams have.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html
 

Eddie Jurak

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If they do not fire Mayo at the earliest opportunity, then I am absolutely sure that they were botch this rebuild and waste the talent of Maye to a degree not seen since Jim Plunkett. Everything Mayo does sabotages the team's chances to win, he literally does nothing positively, and if they keep losing then at some point Maye is going to get frustrated and either start doing too much or will start figuring out his exit strategy.

You cannot continue to botch strategic decisions in game after game after game and expect that things are just going to work themselves out.

He has to go. Immediately.
I think Mayo will get another chance, next year, but if he's not shown improvement he will not reach the end of it.,
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think Mayo will get another chance, next year, but if he's not shown improvement he will not reach the end of it.,
The problem is what happens when Mayo still sucks and holds the team back but spending lots of money in FA plus a good draft plus Maye’s progression means they go 6-11 or 7-10. Then Kraft talks himself into giving a bad coach another year because “progress” or whatever.

Doing anything other than firing Mayo this offseason will be a big mistake. He is fucking up basic aspects of the job and has shown basically no reason to believe that he’ll ever be one of the top 10 or so head coaches in the league, which is what we should be trying to find.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The problem is what happens when Mayo still sucks and holds the team back but spending lots of money in FA plus a good draft plus Maye’s progression means they go 6-11 or 7-10. Then Kraft talks himself into giving a bad coach another year because “progress” or whatever.

Doing anything other than firing Mayo this offseason will be a big mistake. He is fucking up basic aspects of the job and has shown basically no reason to believe that he’ll ever be one of the top 10 or so head coaches in the league, which is what we should be trying to find.
Entirely possible and very problematic. I said what I expect to happen, not what I would do.
 

BigJimEd

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Is this based on total penalties? Because I’m looking at penalties per game and I see the Pats are tied at 10th worst at 6.8. However, the league median is 6.3. It’s not good, but I don’t know if I’d say he’s not the guy because if 0.5 penalties per game.
That seems about right for a team with this talent level particularly on the OL.
 

8slim

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The problem is what happens when Mayo still sucks and holds the team back but spending lots of money in FA plus a good draft plus Maye’s progression means they go 6-11 or 7-10.
Assuming we can determine the "still sucks" part, and because of it 7-10 could have been 10-7 if not for lousy head coaching, then he gets fired.

I mean, the greatest coach of all time dragged Cam Newton to 7-10. If Mayo sucks as unequivocally as some here suggest, he ain't winning 7 games with a still sub-par roster.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Assuming we can determine the "still sucks" part, and because of it 7-10 could have been 10-7 if not for lousy head coaching, then he gets fired.
This is what I'm not confident about. If Kraft is so invested in Mayo succeeding and validating his self-proclaimed "magic touch" in selecting head coaches that he'll give him another year after this dumpster fire, why would we assume that he'll look at 7-10 and want to make a change?

I mean, the greatest coach of all time dragged Cam Newton to 7-10. If Mayo sucks as unequivocally as some here suggest, he ain't winning 7 games with a still sub-par roster.
If other things go right in the rebuild, it might be an average to slightly below average roster by next season with one of the best young QBs in the league at the helm. Seven wins with a mediocre head coach does not seem unreasonable.

Head coach is right there with QB in terms of contribution to winning in the NFL. The goal should be to find somebody who is above average at the very least and teams interested in winning need to be ruthless in trying to find the guy. Keeping Mayo for another year is the equivalent of giving Mac a third bite at the apple. There's enough evidence to know that its a bad bet.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The problem is what happens when Mayo still sucks and holds the team back but spending lots of money in FA plus a good draft plus Maye’s progression means they go 6-11 or 7-10. Then Kraft talks himself into giving a bad coach another year because “progress” or whatever.

Doing anything other than firing Mayo this offseason will be a big mistake. He is fucking up basic aspects of the job and has shown basically no reason to believe that he’ll ever be one of the top 10 or so head coaches in the league, which is what we should be trying to find.
They are wasting rookie contract years and key development time of their new franchise QB, and they're doing so because the owner is a delusional egomaniac who is convinced he can see leaders of men and thus will hold onto a head coach who is utterly unqualified for the role.

They're self-sabotaging the franchise rebuild they so desperately wanted, all because the owner is desperate to get into the Hall before he finally kicks it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Assuming we can determine the "still sucks" part, and because of it 7-10 could have been 10-7 if not for lousy head coaching, then he gets fired.

I mean, the greatest coach of all time dragged Cam Newton to 7-10. If Mayo sucks as unequivocally as some here suggest, he ain't winning 7 games with a still sub-par roster.
WHo knows. I think we all agree Eberflus is a bad coach... he went 3-14, then he spiked to 7-10 last year based on some good luck, now his team is 4-8 and he's fired. The thing about the NFL is... a lot of games are close, a lot of those can be turned by fluky plays or luck, or injuries to opponents.

I think Mayo will get a second year, maybe even should, but I do think it is very important that when he is evaluated by Kraft, it is based on more than just W/L record.
 

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Is this based on total penalties? Because I’m looking at penalties per game and I see the Pats are tied at 10th worst at 6.8. However, the league median is 6.3. It’s not good, but I don’t know if I’d say he’s not the guy because if 0.5 penalties per game.
This doesn't change the overall story much, but FWIW the league-average penalty rate per 100 plays is 4.2. The Pats this season are committing 4.47, which makes them the 10th-most penalized team. The most penalized teams-- Tennessee and Baltimore-- are drawing 5.6 and 5.4 flags per 100 snaps. The least penalized teams-- Arizona and Cincinnati -- are drawing 3.3 and 3.5 flags per 100 snaps.

Skimming down where teams fall out in terms of penalties per 100 snaps it's not clear there's much of a correlation between penalties and winning. Baltimore is second-worst in the league. Kansas City, Detroit, Buffalo, and Philly are all around league-average. A bunch of least-penalized teams (Indy, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Atlanta) are solidly mediocre, underperforming, or both.

Maybe obviously, but I'm kinda skeptical that the Pats penalties this year tell us something big and important about the coaching staff or the team as a whole.

I'd love to see average penalties per 100 snaps broken out by position group. I suspect our OLine is well above league average-- for more or less the reasons others have said-- with other position groups being well below average. Not sure if that data is anywhere...
 

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WHo knows. I think we all agree Eberflus is a bad coach... he went 3-14, then he spiked to 7-10 last year based on some good luck, now his team is 4-8 and he's fired. The thing about the NFL is... a lot of games are close, a lot of those can be turned by fluky plays or luck, or injuries to opponents.

I think Mayo will get a second year, maybe even should, but I do think it is very important that when he is evaluated by Kraft, it is based on more than just W/L record.
I think what we are discovering is that winning close games year after year is the very key hallmark of a good team, and losing them is the key hallmark of a bad one.

The Patriots are really good at losing a lot of close games, which shouldn't be chalked up to bad luck. It should be chalked up to them being a bad team, with bad coaching.
 

boca

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He now regrets the Superbowl reference :rolleyes:.

“I shouldn’t have done that,” Mayo said when he appeared on WEEI’s “Greg Hill Show” on Monday morning. “You’re right. I probably shouldn’t have — when I said it, I was frustrated first of all. I should have taken a deep breath. I should not have said that. I should not have said it.”

How many times has he tripped himself up with the media alraedy?
 

8slim

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He now regrets the Superbowl reference :rolleyes:.

“I shouldn’t have done that,” Mayo said when he appeared on WEEI’s “Greg Hill Show” on Monday morning. “You’re right. I probably shouldn’t have — when I said it, I was frustrated first of all. I should have taken a deep breath. I should not have said that. I should not have said it.”

How many times has he tripped himself up with the media alraedy?
I don't like to make too much of his media "gaffes". However, I do think they reveal that Mayo isn't nearly as prepared for this job as I expected him to be.

I've made this comparison before, but the HC of my alma mater, Syracuse, is also a first time HC. In one of his early pressers last spring he dropped a "MFing" during a response. It's college so the chattering class had to cluck their tongues in disapproval. Regardless, it has never happened again. In fact, his media relations skillset has become top notch less than a year on the job (anyone who saw his post-game, on-field interview after the Miami upset will agree). He's always using his team motto in interviews and concocting new marketing-friendly slogans, all with the obvious intention of attracting recruits and boosters. It's clearly something he has thought about a lot and has worked on a bunch.

Mayo, to put it mildly, has not. And it seems to be just one small aspect of how the job may be too big for him.
 

8slim

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WHo knows. I think we all agree Eberflus is a bad coach... he went 3-14, then he spiked to 7-10 last year based on some good luck, now his team is 4-8 and he's fired. The thing about the NFL is... a lot of games are close, a lot of those can be turned by fluky plays or luck, or injuries to opponents.

I think Mayo will get a second year, maybe even should, but I do think it is very important that when he is evaluated by Kraft, it is based on more than just W/L record.
That's all fair. I agree that W/L can't be the be-all, end-all for evaluating him.
 

rodderick

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The Pats are 26th in point differential after ranking 29th last year. Their record reflects what they are, every team plays a bunch of close games and we tend not to mention the close ones they do win.
 

gmogmo

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If they do not fire Mayo at the earliest opportunity, then I am absolutely sure that they were botch this rebuild and waste the talent of Maye to a degree not seen since Jim Plunkett. Everything Mayo does sabotages the team's chances to win, he literally does nothing positively, and if they keep losing then at some point Maye is going to get frustrated and either start doing too much or will start figuring out his exit strategy.

You cannot continue to botch strategic decisions in game after game after game and expect that things are just going to work themselves out.

He has to go. Immediately.
This is spot on, it was a Kraft ego move to hire him without even interviewing another candidate, and it will likely be a Kraft ego move to not move on from him when it's so painfully obvious he's horrific at this job and getting worse. They have ZERO chance to succeed with this imbecile as the head coach, zero.
 

Ed Hillel

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I don't like to make too much of his media "gaffes". However, I do think they reveal that Mayo isn't nearly as prepared for this job as I expected him to be.

I've made this comparison before, but the HC of my alma mater, Syracuse, is also a first time HC. In one of his early pressers last spring he dropped a "MFing" during a response. It's college so the chattering class had to cluck their tongues in disapproval. Regardless, it has never happened again. In fact, his media relations skillset has become top notch less than a year on the job (anyone who saw his post-game, on-field interview after the Miami upset will agree). He's always using his team motto in interviews and concocting new marketing-friendly slogans, all with the obvious intention of attracting recruits and boosters. It's clearly something he has thought about a lot and has worked on a bunch.

Mayo, to put it mildly, has not. And it seems to be just one small aspect of how the job may be too big for him.
The problem with the gaffes, which is a good term here bravo, is they are consistently done for one purpose, which is push responsibility elsewhere. His first reflex is to claim it’s anyone’s fault but his own. This is the overarching issue, and I imagine it must make him very difficult to play for.
 

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They're self-sabotaging the franchise rebuild they so desperately wanted, all because the owner is desperate to get into the Hall before he finally kicks it.
The crazy thing is, even if Mayo turned into the next great coach, and the team was on its way back the Super Bowl, Kraft still wouldn’t get in the Hall of Fame. The other owners don’t like the guy enough to let him into their old boys club. And those are the guys that decide which owners get in the hall.
 

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I'd love to see average penalties per 100 snaps broken out by position group. I suspect our OLine is well above league average-- for more or less the reasons others have said-- with other position groups being well below average. Not sure if that data is anywhere...
OK, I just went down a rabbit hole of penalty data and believe I've been able to get somewhere in the ballpark of good numbers on this.

By combining a few data sources, you can compare the number of penalties per game by position group to the league average per game for the groups on other teams.

One thing this exercise puts numbers to is what a large % of total penalties come from a few infractions. League wide, ~50% of all penalties are called on three things: offensive holding, false starts, and defensive pass interference. (False starts are called 5x more often than Defensive Offsides)

Organized by position groups, how have the Pats done this year?

More penalized than league average:
  • Linebackers (+0.35 penalties per game higher than league average)
  • Offensive Line (+0.32)
  • Wide Receivers (+0.31)
About league average:
  • Quarterback (+0.00)
  • Special Teams (-0.01)
  • Not individually assigned (-0.02)
  • Running Back (-0.10)
Less penalized than league average:
  • Tight End (-0.35)
  • Defensive Line (-0.40)
  • Defensive Backs (-0.63)

I don't have time to run the numbers for the whole league, but a quick glance at the total suggests our defensive backs might be the close-to-if-not-the least penalized defensive backfield in the league. And in your daily dose of small-sample-size-curiosities, our LBs have committed about 25% of all the flagged cases of defensive pass interference this season by LBs across the entire league.

I think the correlation between those three groups and where this team has more and less talent is pretty clear (although not the whole story)
 
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mikcou

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The problem with the gaffes, which is a good term here bravo, is they are consistently done for one purpose, which is push responsibility elsewhere. His first reflex is to claim it’s anyone’s fault but his own. This is the overarching issue, and I imagine it must make him very difficult to play for.
It also make its near impossible for him to improve. If he thinks its constantly others effing up, then he isnt going to change anything.

Improvements come from acknowledging and understanding when you've effed up and how it could be done better. If he never gets to step 1 (and both his public statements and him making the same mistake multiple times indicates he likely wont), hes never going to materially improve,
 

Cellar-Door

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OK, I just went down a rabbit hole of penalty data and believe I've been able to get somewhere in the ballpark of good numbers on this.

By combining a few data sources, you can compare the number of penalties per game by position group to the league average per game for the groups on other teams.

One thing this exercise puts numbers to is what a large % of total penalties come from the a few infractions. League wide, ~50% of all penalties are called on three things: offensive holding, false starts, and defensive pass interference. (False starts are called 5x more often than Defensive Offsides)

Organized by position groups, how have the Pats done this year?

More penalized than league average:
  • Linebackers (+0.35 penalties per game higher than league average)
  • Offensive Line (+0.32)
  • Wide Receivers (+0.31)
About league average:
  • Quarterback (+0.00)
  • Special Teams (-0.01)
  • Not individually assigned (-0.02)
  • Running Back (-0.10)
Less penalized than league average:
  • Tight End (-0.35)
  • Defensive Line (-0.40)
  • Defensive Backs (-0.63)

I don't have time to run the numbers for the whole league, but a quick glance at the total suggests our defensive backs might be the close-to-if-not-the least penalized defensive backfield in the league. And in your daily dose of small-sample-size-curiosities, our LBs have committed about 25% of all the flagged cases of defensive pass interference this season by LBs across the entire league.

I think the correlation between those three groups and where this team has more and less talent is pretty clear (although not the whole story)
The Belichick effect. Position group that lost a Belichick worst on the team, position group that has a Belichick best on the team. ;)
 

Ed Hillel

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It also make its near impossible for him to improve. If he thinks its constantly others effing up, then he isnt going to change anything.

Improvements come from acknowledging and understanding when you've effed up and how it could be done better. If he never gets to step 1 (and both his public statements and him making the same mistake multiple times indicates he likely wont), hes never going to materially improve,
Yup, I was actually thinking about this very thing this morning. He played under BB and was a really great player when healthy, so I assumed this is exactly the kind of issue we wouldn’t have when he was hired by BB and brought in to replace him. He didn’t seem like a mistake-repeater. It was disappointing the first time, but now it’s become sobering/depressing.
 

Garshaparra

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Feb 27, 2008
743
McCarver's Mushy Mouth
OK, I just went down a rabbit hole of penalty data and believe I've been able to get somewhere in the ballpark of good numbers on this.

By combining a few data sources, you can compare the number of penalties per game by position group to the league average per game for the groups on other teams.

I don't have time to run the numbers for the whole league, but a quick glance at the total suggests our defensive backs might be the close-to-if-not-the least penalized defensive backfield in the league. And in your daily dose of small-sample-size-curiosities, our LBs have committed about 25% of all the flagged cases of defensive pass interference this season by LBs across the entire league.

I think the correlation between those three groups and where this team has more and less talent is pretty clear (although not the whole story)
This is why SOSH is the best. What a terrific breakdown, and indeed, correlates very well with what we've seen in team performance. Our WRs and LBs are relatively undersized and slow, so they hold in coverage (LBs) and commit OPI and hold when blocking (WRs). Our OL is terrible at basically everything, so they hold, shift and false start more often to deal with those deficiencies.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
29,358
Newton
A few thoughts from someone who is invested in the Pats’ success but less worked up about all this:

1) I think we make too much of the “Kraft ego play” aspect of the Mayo hire. Mayo may not be the right guy. It’s fair to wonder whether he should’ve done an external search. But Kraft approached this a lot like a family business which is often based on relationships, trust and feel. Also, I’m not exactly sure Kraft was wrong when he described Bill as a “pain in the tuchus” – especially after he chose Bill over Brady and things began to go sideways.

2) Mayo, to put it simply, has a lot on his plate. Taking over for a legend. Picking through a barren roster. Developing a rookie franchise QB. Learning how to do head coaching things like execute in-game strategy, speak on behalf of the team (in a town used to getting nothing from their HC’s press conferences). Evolve a team culture that had grown stale and showed diminishing returns (and made a lot of mistakes as well, see: 2023 special teams). That’s … a lot.

Now you can argue that some of that was a choice Mayo and Wolf (and the Krafts) made. You could make the case that they’d have been better off with a veteran coach taking over who had some of this in place already. But my guess is that it wouldn’t have been a Pete Carroll-level guy. It would’ve more likely been a Vic Fangio-type retread who maybe wouldn’t be making gaffes in front of the media but wouldn’t necessarily be getting much more out of this roster than Mayo – and possibly would be alienating Maye.

3) Maye continues to really improve. I get the handwringing over whether Mayo coaching will “waste” Maye’s rookie contract years. But again: hitting on this pick—and knowing that they hit on this pick—was the single most important thing this season. Mayo may have literally nothing to do with it, I don’t know. But Maye’s development could not be going better and that sets this team up well for the coming offseason – with FA’s who see a guy they want to play with and with coaches who see a guy they can imagine doing snow angels with one day.

Either way, I’m not losing my mind of the current State of the Mayo. Robert Kraft may be older and Jonathan may lack the old man’s personal touch. But this kind of two steps forward, two or three steps backward type season is almost exactly what I expected going in to the year and the year after we moved on from Bill. And given the choice I’d much rather be singing Maye’s praises and handwringing over the coach than vice versa.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
23,466
Philadelphia
A few thoughts from someone who is invested in the Pats’ success but less worked up about all this:

1) I think we make too much of the “Kraft ego play” aspect of the Mayo hire. Mayo may not be the right guy. It’s fair to wonder whether he should’ve done an external search. But Kraft approached this a lot like a family business which is often based on relationships, trust and feel. Also, I’m not exactly sure Kraft was wrong when he described Bill as a “pain in the tuchus” – especially after he chose Bill over Brady and things began to go sideways.

2) Mayo, to put it simply, has a lot on his plate. Taking over for a legend. Picking through a barren roster. Developing a rookie franchise QB. Learning how to do head coaching things like execute in-game strategy, speak on behalf of the team (in a town used to getting nothing from their HC’s press conferences). Evolve a team culture that had grown stale and showed diminishing returns (and made a lot of mistakes as well, see: 2023 special teams). That’s … a lot.

Now you can argue that some of that was a choice Mayo and Wolf (and the Krafts) made. You could make the case that they’d have been better off with a veteran coach taking over who had some of this in place already. But my guess is that it wouldn’t have been a Pete Carroll-level guy. It would’ve more likely been a Vic Fangio-type retread who maybe wouldn’t be making gaffes in front of the media but wouldn’t necessarily be getting much more out of this roster than Mayo – and possibly would be alienating Maye.

3) Maye continues to really improve. I get the handwringing over whether Mayo coaching will “waste” Maye’s rookie contract years. But again: hitting on this pick—and knowing that they hit on this pick—was the single most important thing this season. Mayo may have literally nothing to do with it, I don’t know. But Maye’s development could not be going better and that sets this team up well for the coming offseason – with FA’s who see a guy they want to play with and with coaches who see a guy they can imagine doing snow angels with one day.

Either way, I’m not losing my mind of the current State of the Mayo. Robert Kraft may be older and Jonathan may lack the old man’s personal touch. But this kind of two steps forward, two or three steps backward type season is almost exactly what I expected going in to the year and the year after we moved on from Bill. And given the choice I’d much rather be singing Maye’s praises and handwringing over the coach than vice versa.
This is a level headed take. I don't think anybody should be losing their minds. And Drake Maye looking like a stud absolutely makes everything else this season kind of meaningless in comparison.

As we look forward, however, its impossible to avoid the following question: What is the case for Mayo being a good bet to grow into one of the better head coaches in the league? And if its not likely, then what are we doing here?

The 49ers should really be a role model for how to proceed: They had Jim Harbaugh and he was a really good head coach, but then he left/got canned. Just like the Patriots, they made a mistake hiring internally, giving the job to Jim Tomsula. But then they were willing to admit the mistake and fired Tomsula after a single year. They then hired Chip Kelly, which wasn't a terrible idea at the time, as he was an offensively innovative head coach who had turned the Eagles around and won double digit games in his first couple seasons there before running into trouble largely in his capacity as GM. But Kelly bombed so the 49ers moved on again, with new GM John Lynch then pouncing on the opportunity to hire Kyle Shanahan. And once they actually had a guy that many genuine football people felt was a truly top tier head coach in the making from a process and talent perspective, they gave him time to build a team despite the fact that he only won 10 total games in his first two years.
 
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