How Do You Root For the Sox?

Do you root for the laundry or the player?

  • Laundry

    Votes: 170 92.4%
  • Player

    Votes: 14 7.6%

  • Total voters
    184

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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In the last couple of weeks, I've thought a lot about how I interact with the Red Sox as a fan. For example, I think that there's going to be a lot of turnover next year regarding players that I mostly like: Nate Eovaldi, JD Martinez and Xander Bogaerts can all either leave or opt out after the last out of the 2022 season. Rafael Devers wants to be paid like a super star and there's a realistic chance that the Sox won't do it. I think that Chaim Bloom and the Red Sox owenrship have a new philosophy since they traded Mookie, in that every player is replaceable. I'm not arguing (here at least) that the Sox are cheap; but I think that the philosophy that Bloom brought with him from Tampa is that players are fungible and that a team does not have to be married to ball players just because he has been with the organization for x amount of years.

Essentially this boils down to "rooting for laundry", as Jerry Seinfeld eloquently put it back in the 1990s. And to steal another Seinfeldism, "not that there's anything wrong with that".

And I thought about that this week when Durran and Houck decided that "they do anything to help the team win", except, of course get a COVID-19 shot so that they're able to play ballgames in Toronto. When you root for laundry, do you have to root for these two players too? Their decision is actively hurting the team, but when they get back stateside, the front of their jerseys will still say "Red Sox" or "Boston" on them, so if you're a laundry rooter and in order to be consistent, you kind of have to cheer for these guys when they're playing, right? And honestly, I'm not playing gotcha here, I'm trying to figure out where the line is. Chris Nilan was public enemy number one at the old Garden but when he put on the spoked B, all was forgotten and fans loved him. Despite his idiocy in Cleveland, people loved Kyrie until they didn't.

I think that I'm a person who ultimately roots for the player, which is probably why, for me, the jury is still out on Bloom (despite some really good moves) and why I'm having a hard time connecting with this team. Growing up, I liked that Dwight Evans and Jim Rice and Wade Boggs and Roger Clemens were around for 10+ seasons. Carly Yastrzemski played in Boston for 23 years. Ted Williams played in four different decades. David Ortiz was here for a long time. Pedro, Nomar and Manny weren't here as long; but it sure did seem like it. And when those guys left, there wasn't much left in the tank. Baseball is a different game, you're seemingly "with" these guys every day for seven months (eight if you're lucky). When you have to watch shitheads day after day it sucks, but when you watch players you really like, it's a lot of fun.

There's a contingent on this board that's bought into the Bloom philosophy and that's great, no judgement at all from me, and are probably enjoying this season a lot more than other people (including me) are. I don't know why I'm fighting this way of thinking, but I guess it feels like I'm at a party that's ending prematurely and everyone's leaving and I'm not quite sure why. Other than, "well they're the Red Sox, dummy", why should I get invested in a team that's going to be fundamentally different next year? And the year after that. And the year after that.

I'm interested in what others have to say.
 

thehitcat

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I'd like there to be a third option which is "Both" I still miss Mookie and I was happy that JBJ was coming back even in a diminished role. There will always be players that I remember fondly who's time in Boston "ended too soon. (Nomar)" I am angry as hell about Houck and Duran especially after the Tyler Danish experiment last night. But I also root for the Red Sox to win as a team. My favorite Sox teams tend to be ones that include significant players who have come up through the system and who I saw in Portland or Pawtucket or Worcester but I still love Pedro, Manny and Ortiz so I guess the answer for me anyway is "Both".
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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My first baseball memory is the Red Sox - Reds WS waaaay back when so I can't imagine changing team affiliations. In that sense, I root for the laundry.

However, my rooting gets more intense and more personal when the Red Sox have compelling stories, particularly player stories, so I guess the players do matter to a degree.

But at the end of the day, if I look at the boxscores, I'll always be looking for Red Sox first no matter who is playing for them.
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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Laundry, pure and simple.

Nomar was my favorite player for several years. I didn't bat an eye when they traded him.

I loved Manny, warts and all. I was fully on the Jason Bay train when they traded him.

I was fine with them letting Pedro walk. I was fine with the Mookie trade. I will be fine if they let Devers and/or X walk.

They've won 4 titles in < 20 years. Even if they never again win in my lifetime, I'm rooting for the laundry.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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I'd like there to be a third option which is "Both" I still miss Mookie and I was happy that JBJ was coming back even in a diminished role. There will always be players that I remember fondly who's time in Boston "ended too soon. (Nomar)" I am angry as hell about Houck and Duran especially after the Tyler Danish experiment last night. But I also root for the Red Sox to win as a team. My favorite Sox teams tend to be ones that include significant players who have come up through the system and who I saw in Portland or Pawtucket or Worcester but I still love Pedro, Manny and Ortiz so I guess the answer for me anyway is "Both".
I think that (just about) everyone on this board roots for the Red Sox, that's a given. But I specifically didn't use "both" as a choice, because I thought it's a cop-out. For this exercise I wanted the reader to choose because I think that it will generate more discussion.
 

mikeford

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I mean, it's really both because I'm always going to want the Red Sox to win the World Series even if I hate some of the guys on the team. I think Chris Sale is a complete try-hard phony tough guy, but that didn't diminish my excitement of him K-ing Machado to bring home the title. But I voted player here because there are and have been some members of this team and other teams I've rooted for who I actively despise, only want bad things for and ultimately would love my team to get their walking papers for them.

I completely agree with JMOH that the personalities on the present team I like are mostly guys I expect won't be here next year and it's hampering my level of enjoyment of the season.
 

glennhoffmania

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Laundry, pure and simple.

Nomar was my favorite player for several years. I didn't bat an eye when they traded him.

I loved Manny, warts and all. I was fully on the Jason Bay train when they traded him.

I was fine with them letting Pedro walk. I was fine with the Mookie trade. I will be fine if they let Devers and/or X walk.

They've won 4 titles in < 20 years. Even if they never again win in my lifetime, I'm rooting for the laundry.
Totally agree in general, although I'd say that a couple of moves have pissed me off. But they pissed me off because I didn't think they were right for the team, not because I was upset that a particular player left.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Laundry. Which isn't to say I don't continue to root for particularly favorite players after they move on. I loved Mets and Phillies Pedro for sure. I love Dodgers Mookie too, but definitely less than I did in 2019.

The harder challenge is ginning up love for the guys you'd otherwise hate who now wear the right laundry. AJ Pyrzynski obviously never crossed over. Curt Schilling was awesome to have on the Red Sox, until he wasn't. And Houck and Duran didn't accumulate enough of a goodwill pool for me before revealing themselves as selfish bastards. so they're really tainted for me. Sure, I want Duran to get a hit whenever he comes to bat, but if I ran into him at a bar I'd probably just glare at him. If I ran into Heath Hembree* in a bar, I'd happily try to buy him a beer.

* - first Red Sox rando that sprung to mind, and that he's a Trumper wouldn't get in my way.
 

InstaFace

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I think it's a spectrum. Some people might be 100% Laundry or 100% Player. But those who are mostly-Laundry must surely harbor some residual feeling for players who've left - nobody stopped rooting for Pedro just because he went to the Mets and then Phillies, right? And those who are mostly-Player probably only came to like those players in the first place because they played for their own laundry.

I have some players I like or liked who never played for the Sox, who just seemed awesome or fun (like, if you don't think Shohei Ohtani is fun, you probably don't like baseball). But most of the players I cared about, I started caring about because they played for the Sox. And only for very few of the players I cared about, did I stop caring about once they left the Sox. Maybe Johnny Damon, but he's still One of the 25. Ellsbury, for where he went, and the fact that he was mostly toast once he left. Maybe Benintendi, who I'll always love for the 2018 ALCS, but who I just can't muster emotions for after the trade. Schilling is his own special case. And I'll overlook some pretty unlikeable players just because they play for the Sox (within limits). I guess that makes me, I dunno, 80% laundry?
 

CreightonGubanich

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That's tough to answer. I'll never switch my allegiance from the Red Sox to another team, just because a player I like leaves. I do agree that I have an attachment to certain players and it's hard to see the team just walk away from them.

But, I don't know if what's happening now is really any different from what I've seen my whole life. I'm 36; I remember when Mo Vaughn left because the Angels gave him a ridiculous amount of money that the Sox rightfully didn't want to pay for an aging, out of shape first basemen. Even though Mo was good for the Angels for a bit, that was the right decision. It was the right decision to trade Nomar, who was my favorite player ever. It was the right time for Manny to go when he left. Maybe the hardest was Pedro, but those of us who watched him in 2003 and 2004 knew exactly how fragile he was at that point, and most of us knew he'd never be worth his next big contract. We were right.

Which takes us to the Bloom era. I've always believed the Mookie trade was less about the luxury tax and more that they just didn't want Mookie at the contract he was going to command. That sucks, but I'm not sure it was the wrong decision from a franchise-building perspective. Bogaerts is still in his prime, but he's also been here for 10 seasons, which is more than Nomar. He's a much better bet to perform into his mid-30's, and I hope the Sox sign him, but I'll understand if they don't. Devers is awesome, and if I had to pick one guy for them to (over)pay out of Betts, Bogaerts and Devers, Raffy would be the guy, mostly because of his age and profile as a hitter.

I'd like to think that if the team currently had a David Ortiz -- charismatic, face of the franchise, city/community icon, perennial top performer at his position -- that they'd do what it takes to keep him. Even a cynical organization like the Patriots made an exception for Tom Brady (at least, until they didn't). But I don't know. They didn't do it for Betts, who pretty much fit that profile.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure if my somewhat lessened connection with this team is about the players cycling through more rapidly due to some change in philosophy, or more about me. I was 11 when Nomar made his debut. Nomar, Manny and Pedro made me a Sox fan for life. Nomar's nine years felt longer than X's ten, because of the span of my own life that his tenure covered. It's hard for me to have the same attachment to Bogaerts, Betts or Devers.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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It's definitely a spectrum. I carve out extra love and appreciation for guys that came up through the system and have been on my radar for years. Or of course the god-tier players and personalities like Pedro and Papi. But I am laundry all the way.

This also speaks to how I watch baseball, period. At this point I would say I am a Red Sox fan far more than a baseball fan. It has, conservatively, been years since I watched a full game between two non-Sox teams. Maybe the Cubs World Series?
 

jose melendez

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Laundry first, and it's not that close. You have to be pretty bad--Wil Cordero-for me to actively root for you to fail while in a Red Sox uniform. That said, there are certainly players you love and those you don't. There are players I certainly hope have personal success and ones to whom I am largely indifferent as long as the team is winning. Still, it's a lot more fun to root for players you basically like, and that's part of why I try to mostly ignore their politics.
 

ookami7m

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I primarily am a "Laundry" guy but there are definitely players that have a special place in my fandom even after they leave the Sox. Mookie is obviously the most recent example but I would always cheer for guys that leave here that were special to the team. Nomar and Pedro but not someone like Damon or Napoli.

It definitely makes it easier to have a personality that drives the team to success - Pedro, Papi, Pedroia, Mookie all filled that role with me.
 

Heating up in the bullpen

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Laundry. I want the Red Sox to win, and I want every player on the field for each game to have a career night every night (because that will help the Red Sox win). I love certain players and I couldn’t care less (or worse) about other players, but when they’re on the field I want their best for the team and I pull for them to come through every pitch, every at-bat, every play. Eventually they all come and go, whether through free agency or trade or diminished skills/results or retirement. But the uniform stays the same and my devotion to the Boston Red Sox has only grown stronger over the years, despite, or maybe because of, living 718 miles away from Fenway Park for more than half my life now. Even after living in NC for 31 years, I still consider myself a New Englander, and being a Red Sox fan is a huge part of that.
 
Mostly laundry. There are players you come to love and want them to do well after they are gone—not just the stars, but the ones you were rooting to get a chance who ended up getting a better chance elsewhere.

Seeing the ones you love come back to face the Sox can bring some complicated feelings. I remember when Pedro returned to Fenway with the Mets in 2006 and got lit up for 8 runs in 3 innings. Whatever I felt that night was not joy, even as my team won. Pedro’s heart didn’t seem like it was in it.
 

pk1627

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Laundry trumps all. For example, I detested Gomes on the Rays. Then he becomes this clutch, team player in 2013.

Some individuals transcend laundry. Francona definitely. Pedro. And it goes both ways: detested Bobby V from beginning to end.
 

nolasoxfan

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Laundry.
As a young lad, I was absolutely gutted when Freddy Lynn was traded away. For a while, I refused to wear my RS cap. Soon, I realized that favorite players would come and go, but my love and allegiance to the Red Sox was a birthright that would stay with me for as long as I lived.
Laundry. Always laundry.
 

Archer1979

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I lean toward laundry, but if the player was someone I liked while they were with the Sox, I'll root for them afterward unless they left in some BS manner (for example, Johnny Damon and Roger Clemens).

Mookie doesn't resonate with me the same as others, but I understand why he's a special case.

It's guys like Terry Francona that I won't root against. Makes it when the Sox are playing Cleveland tough, but I see it more as rooting for the Sox than against Tito.
 

BaseballJones

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Player 10%, laundry 90%.

I love certain players and even with Brady (different sport) I paid attention to him after he left NE.

But...Pedro is my favorite athlete of all time in any sport. Of course I wanted him to do well when he played for Philly and the Mets (especially when Philly played the Yankees in the WS), but honestly, I didn't really follow him day in and day out. I rooted harder for any Red Sox pitcher than I did for Pedro when Pedro was on the Phils or Mets.

I absolutely LOVED Mookie, but when he became a Dodger, honestly, I pay very little attention to him. I don't wish him ill, of course. Nice to see he's doing well, but he's gone.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Laundry.


And I root for my favorites after they leave the team. So I am rooting for Mookie and Schwarber (he was fun to root for last year) and Daniel Bard. I never really got into Benintendi so I'm not really rooting for him or David Price or guys like Garrett Richards or Martin Perez
 

cornwalls@6

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Laundry, and it's really been the only option for 40 years. Once free agency became a reality, player movement, and the loss of beloved stars, became an inevitability for all fans, of all teams. That said, I can, and do, get attached to the players while they're here, and I'm always disappointed when a top player I like leaves. But for example, David Ortiz is one my top 3-4 favorite athletes of all time. Love him. But if for some reason in, say, 2010, they decided to trade him, or not re-sign him, I'd have been really pissed. And then I would've turned on NESN that night, and rooted for the Sox to win.
 
Last edited:
Apr 23, 2010
22
I think it might be a little more complex than just player/laundry. I started watching the Sox in 1960, fell in love with Yaz as a rookie, adored Frank Malzone and Tony C, went nuts in 1967, and continued to love everything about the Sox through the 70's - until the Haywood Sullivan era started in full swing. I don't think I was ever as upset with the Sox as I was when they let Tiant walk, but then they start forgetting to mail contacts, traded Fred Lynn for god knows what, Buddy Leroux stages a palace coup while everyone else is honoring Tony C, managers like Houk and McNamara make life miserable and I just lost interest. For me, everything about them became unpleasant during the Sullivan/Gorman years.

Until 1988. My mother was diagnosed with cancer that year and to keep ourselves sane, my father and I re-bonded with the Red Sox and each other, all against the backdrop of the Morgan miracle and I haven't wavered since. So these days, I guess I'd say I'm a laundry guy but sometimes there are other things at play - like Haywood Sullivan and sharing Morgan's miracle with my father between visits to my mother.
 

Sausage in Section 17

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The Red Sox are an institution, an entity that remains like a beacon, outlasting politicians, players, general managers, TV shows, car models and manufacturers. For me, they are like the eternal flame. Always to be revered.

Players? They come and go. I loved Nomar and Mookie as much as any players, but when their loyalty to the Sox changed, I stopped caring about their success by about 90%. I'll still root for them, but it doesn't really matter anymore.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'd like to think that if the team currently had a David Ortiz -- charismatic, face of the franchise, city/community icon, perennial top performer at his position -- that they'd do what it takes to keep him. Even a cynical organization like the Patriots made an exception for Tom Brady (at least, until they didn't). But I don't know. They didn't do it for Betts, who pretty much fit that profile.
The thing with Ortiz is he was never paid a top 10 in the game salary nor did he ever demand a long-term contract that extended beyond what anyone believed would be his prime (to his credit, he exceeded expectations with how he played at age 40). So it was fairly easy for the Sox to retain him as the face of the franchise. Even Brady took discounts and repeatedly re-negotiated his deal (until he didn't) to help the team navigate the salary cap and surround him with good players. Point being, it isn't and shouldn't be entirely on the team to "do what it takes" to keep a icon/face of the franchise player. Not if the goal is also to field a competitive team year in and year out.

I fall on the side of rooting for laundry. Maybe it's just that I've spent my entire fandom in the free agency era, but I see getting too attached to players as a fruitless endeavor. They come and go, whether it's trade, free agency, or retirement. Meanwhile, the team's always been there. They haven't left town for more money or a better stadium deal. They haven't folded up their tents and decided they're done with the game. They'll probably still be there long after I'm gone.
 

54thMA

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Laundry, pure and simple.

Nomar was my favorite player for several years. I didn't bat an eye when they traded him.

I loved Manny, warts and all. I was fully on the Jason Bay train when they traded him.

I was fine with them letting Pedro walk. I was fine with the Mookie trade. I will be fine if they let Devers and/or X walk.

They've won 4 titles in < 20 years. Even if they never again win in my lifetime, I'm rooting for the laundry.
This.

Couldn't agree more.

FOUR World Series titles in my lifetime.

All I ever wanted was one, just one, living through 67, 72, 75, 78, 86, 03.

I don't fall in love with players, they come and go, RED SOX will always be there.
 

Just a bit outside

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Laundry but my fandom is intensified when there are players who we got to watch come up through the system or have been with the team for awhile. The Celtics this year where a good example. I always root for them but I was more engaged because almost all of the main guys are Celtic draft picks or guys like Horford and Theis who came back to the team.
 

SoxInTheMist

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It's definitely both for me. However, I certainly don't find it as enjoyable to root for the "Red Sox" when they have players that I abhor. Would I rather root for a team with Houck, Duran and Sale and win or one with Pedro, Big Papi and Mookie and lose? Probably the latter. I will have to admit that if you asked the question pre-2004 you might have had a different answer.
 

nattysez

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Laundry. In the perfect world, they'd have a few guys who they keep long-term while the rest of the team fills in around those stars so you can develop those individual rooting relationships. That's what makes seeing Mookie and likely X walk is so hard (though I understand why both moves happened/will happen) -- those were my touchstone guys.
 

snowmanny

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I don't really get the pure laundry answer. Of course I root for the Red Sox. But individual stars enhance my enjoyment a lot. I ask you about the 1999 Red Sox you'll tell me about Pedro. If I ask you about the 1987 team well, they weren't good but Boggs and Clemens were phenomenal. 2006 Ortiz and 54 home runs. They usually aren't going to win, and I'd rather see a 7.5 WAR than three 2.5's, and I'd rather the 7.5 guy be someone with whom I have some longer term connection.

Also, I like Rick Porcello fine -seems like a good guy and pitched generally well and occasionally exceptionally well, and he helped them win a title - but I'd have preferred Jon Lester.
 

tims4wins

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It's definitely both for me. However, I certainly don't find it as enjoyable to root for the "Red Sox" when they have players that I abhor. Would I rather root for a team with Houck, Duran and Sale and win or one with Pedro, Big Papi and Mookie and lose? Probably the latter. I will have to admit that if you asked the question pre-2004 you might have had a different answer.
Without going too V&N, if Covid hit in 2004 or 2007 we might have a different list of hated players. I could easily see a world in which G38, Papelbon, Beckett, etc. refused to get vaxxed. While I am as frustrated as a lot of you with regard to their decisions, I don't think it's fair to hold it against them in comparison to historical players, because we don't know what decisions those guys would have made. But it's entirely fair to compare them to say, the Yankees, who were able to bring their entire roster across the border.
 

brienc

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In the last couple of weeks, I've thought a lot about how I interact with the Red Sox as a fan. For example, I think that there's going to be a lot of turnover next year regarding players that I mostly like: Nate Eovaldi, JD Martinez and Xander Bogaerts can all either leave or opt out after the last out of the 2022 season. Rafael Devers wants to be paid like a super star and there's a realistic chance that the Sox won't do it. I think that Chaim Bloom and the Red Sox owenrship have a new philosophy since they traded Mookie, in that every player is replaceable. I'm not arguing (here at least) that the Sox are cheap; but I think that the philosophy that Bloom brought with him from Tampa is that players are fungible and that a team does not have to be married to ball players just because he has been with the organization for x amount of years.

Essentially this boils down to "rooting for laundry", as Jerry Seinfeld eloquently put it back in the 1990s. And to steal another Seinfeldism, "not that there's anything wrong with that".

And I thought about that this week when Durran and Houck decided that "they do anything to help the team win", except, of course get a COVID-19 shot so that they're able to play ballgames in Toronto. When you root for laundry, do you have to root for these two players too? Their decision is actively hurting the team, but when they get back stateside, the front of their jerseys will still say "Red Sox" or "Boston" on them, so if you're a laundry rooter and in order to be consistent, you kind of have to cheer for these guys when they're playing, right? And honestly, I'm not playing gotcha here, I'm trying to figure out where the line is. Chris Nilan was public enemy number one at the old Garden but when he put on the spoked B, all was forgotten and fans loved him. Despite his idiocy in Cleveland, people loved Kyrie until they didn't.

I think that I'm a person who ultimately roots for the player, which is probably why, for me, the jury is still out on Bloom (despite some really good moves) and why I'm having a hard time There's a contingent on this board that's bought into the Bloom philosophy and that's great, no judgement at all from me, and are probably enjoying this season a lot more than other people (including me) are. I don't know why I'm fighting this way of thinking, but I guess it feels like I'm at a party that's ending prematurely and everyone's leaving and I'm not quite sure why. Other than, "well they're the Red Sox, dummy", why should I get invested in a team that's going to be fundamentally different next year? And the year after that. And the year after that.

I'm interested in what others have to say.
This post is a much more eloquent description of what I was venting about in the game thread last night. I could never root for another team, but the thought that all players are fungible and need to be replaced when it’s time to pay market value for them while the team is one of highest revenue producers in MLB is not appealing in any way to me. I voted players, and the end result for me will just be losing interest in the team and sport overall.
 

ShaneTrot

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The breakups with individual players are painful but it's Sox all the way. I remember when Fisk and Lynn left because the team was run by idiots and being incredibly angry about it. I got over it and still loved the team. I like following the minor leagues so the loss of Mookie was acutely painful because of how stratospheric his rise through the system and MLB was. I look at Detroit running out Cabrera for his 36-39 years and he is basically a replacement-level player. Do I want to see Mookie or Devers like that in a Sox uniform? I don't know.
 

SinkingLowe

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Today, as a 40-something lifelong fan, it's a matter of rooting for the laundry first. When I was a kid it was more of a player-first rooting as I wanted to be the next Rich Gedman.

I'll always root for the laundry, but as others have said, there are some guys in the laundry or who have worn the laundry that I don't like. That's why Schilling is such a difficult one for me when thinking about the 2004 team. They don't win without Schilling's iconic performance, but I can't stand the person he has become (to a lesser extent I didn't like him much during his playing days but he didn't have social media back then to show off his true self).
 

bigq

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I like the Red Sox and generally root for the laundry. The less I know about the players off the field the better. I guess that is akin to burying my head in the sand which may not be the best approach. The more I learn about asshole players, coaches and owners the less interest I have in the team which has translated to me watching, following and consuming a lot less sports than I used to. I’d rather spend my time doing things that make me happy. Supporting douche bags in the uniforms I loved as a child does not bring me happiness.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Laundry trumps all. For example, I detested Gomes on the Rays. Then he becomes this clutch, team player in 2013.

Some individuals transcend laundry. Francona definitely. Pedro. And it goes both ways: detested Bobby V from beginning to end.
Yep Bobby V is the only guy that I never wanted, never got on board with, and was on some level very happy to see fail even if it meant bad things for the Sox.

Hell even John Lackey became a Sox hero.
 

TFisNEXT

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Jul 21, 2005
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I like the Red Sox and generally root for the laundry. The less I know about the players off the field the better. I guess that is akin to burying my head in the sand which may not be the best approach. The more I learn about asshole players, coaches and owners the less interest I have in the team which has translated to me watching, following and consuming a lot less sports than I used to. I’d rather spend my time doing things that make me happy. Supporting douche bags in the uniforms I loved as a child does not bring me happiness.
This is why I mostly keep it to laundry.

When you have 26 players on the roster plus several more likely to be called up from the 40 man, there is an extremely high chance that multiple players on the team are either actual assholes or do not share your politics. It's just simple mathematics and probability.

There's obviously exceptions where you root more for genuinely great players who also seem like great guys, but at the end of the day, I'm a Red Sox fan first.
 

TFisNEXT

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
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Jul 21, 2005
11,794
Yep Bobby V is the only guy that I never wanted, never got on board with, and was on some level very happy to see fail even if it meant bad things for the Sox.

Hell even John Lackey became a Sox hero.
Lackey is a really good example of laundry. Despite so many posters previously vocalizing their disdain for the man, I'm pretty sure the entire forum was loving every minute of his brass balls performance in game 3 of the 2013 ALCS when he beat Verlander 1-0.
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

No more Ramon
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2006
1,387
I'd like there to be a third option which is "Both" I still miss Mookie and I was happy that JBJ was coming back even in a diminished role. There will always be players that I remember fondly who's time in Boston "ended too soon. (Nomar)" I am angry as hell about Houck and Duran especially after the Tyler Danish experiment last night. But I also root for the Red Sox to win as a team. My favorite Sox teams tend to be ones that include significant players who have come up through the system and who I saw in Portland or Pawtucket or Worcester but I still love Pedro, Manny and Ortiz so I guess the answer for me anyway is "Both".
I mean, it's really both because I'm always going to want the Red Sox to win the World Series even if I hate some of the guys on the team. I think Chris Sale is a complete try-hard phony tough guy, but that didn't diminish my excitement of him K-ing Machado to bring home the title. But I voted player here because there are and have been some members of this team and other teams I've rooted for who I actively despise, only want bad things for and ultimately would love my team to get their walking papers for them.

I completely agree with JMOH that the personalities on the present team I like are mostly guys I expect won't be here next year and it's hampering my level of enjoyment of the season.
I'm with these two. I always want the team to win but I root for some players even more because of who they are (Mookie, Xander, Devers, Pedro, Ortiz, Pedroia, JBJ) and I root for the team to win despite other players (most recently Houck, Duran, Crawford, Sale). I always root for the laundry but the players add to or detract from my appreciation of the team's performance.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,597
Mostly laundry. Not really a conscious decision either. Other than here, I dont really engage much with the outside the lines stuff. But, I wouldn't be upset if the crowd booed Duran and Houck mercilessly in their first Fenway series post-Toronto, (or something more pithy, like 35,000 people chanting "you are a moron....you are a moron.....) while also hoping they get some hits and saves.
Rational? Nah. But neither is professional sports fandom, beyond, as Jim McKay used to say, "the human drama of athletic competition "
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

Red-headed Skrub child
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,132
Seacoast NH
It's way too easy to answer "I root for the Sox but I also root for Mookie/10D/insert other departed player because they were once here and they're awesome".

It's the top of the 9th, two outs, 7th game of the World Series, Sox up by 1 and you're at Fenway. Mookie batting vs. Sale. If Mookie strikes and and you're pissed he didn't succeed because you love Mookie and think Sale is a selfish prick then you choose player. If you jump for joy because the Sox won even though you love Mookie and think Sale is a selfish prick, you choose laundry. I'm sure there aren't many on the board choosing the former which honestly isn't that surprising.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
21,850
It's the top of the 9th, two outs, 7th game of the World Series, Sox up by 1 and you're at Fenway. Mookie batting vs. Sale. If Mookie strikes and and you're pissed he didn't succeed because you love Mookie and think Sale is a selfish prick then you choose player. If you jump for joy because the Sox won even though you love Mookie and think Sale is a selfish prick, you choose laundry. I'm sure there aren't many on the board choosing the former which honestly isn't that surprising.
No. That's not how I asked the question. At all.

Boiled down, the question is: do you believe in the philosophy of the Red Sox front office that all players are replaceable and that it doesn't matter who you have at position x as long as that new player is within (pick a number) 10% of the previous player's production?

Or to put it another more specific way, are you okay with the FO letting Bogaerts walk as long as the Sox have Story to slide over and take his place?
 

santadevil

wears depends
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Aug 1, 2006
5,918
Saskatchestan
I became as Red Sox fan because my favorite player was Pedro Martinez
Being Canadian, I loved the Expos growing up. When my guy left, I left with him

So, while I am a bit of a bangwagon jumper, I still root for the laundry and love most of the players

My little guy was a huge Mookie fan and became a Dodgers fan because of that trade
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,597
Or to put it another more specific way, are you okay with the FO letting Bogaerts walk as long as the Sox have Story to slide over and take his place?
Thanks you for putting s finer point on the question. I'd be "okay" with it. Not thrilled. But I have a sense of what theyre doing. This isn't Oakland or some other place where they are actively trying not to win. If I wanted the Red Sox to do it my way, I should have interviewed to be the GM.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
5,989
Boston, MA
No. That's not how I asked the question. At all.

Boiled down, the question is: do you believe in the philosophy of the Red Sox front office that all players are replaceable and that it doesn't matter who you have at position x as long as that new player is within (pick a number) 10% of the previous player's production?

Or to put it another more specific way, are you okay with the FO letting Bogaerts walk as long as the Sox have Story to slide over and take his place?
There's an assumption built in there that the old player will also be within 10% of his previous production. That's where the team is paid to make those decisions and the rest of us just have to go along with it. You're never going to be 100% correct on them, but so far they've been far more right than wrong when they cut ties.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
21,850
There's an assumption built in there that the old player will also be within 10% of his previous production. That's where the team is paid to make those decisions and the rest of us just have to go along with it. You're never going to be 100% correct on them, but so far they've been far more right than wrong when they cut ties.
I was being generous. There's rarely a one-for-one swap. Usually if a star player leaves, the replacement is not quite as good. Obviously, this isn't a hard-and-fast rule, there are plenty of examples of replacements being better. But looking at Mookie, I'd say that Verdugo is not quite the same player. And I don't think that Story is going to be better than Xander, nor do I think that whomever replaces Devers will be as good either. I understand that's assuming a lot on the last two examples, but that's kind of where I'm at. I'm more pessimistic about replacements than other folks on this board.