How Do You Root For the Sox?

Do you root for the laundry or the player?

  • Laundry

    Votes: 170 92.4%
  • Player

    Votes: 14 7.6%

  • Total voters
    184

Scarlet Fire

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
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Dec 6, 2005
179
Beekman, NY
Laundry. I really never even look at a former Sox player's stats when they leave the team. That's not to say it doesn't hurt when a player leaves. Fisk and Dewey were good examples of that for me, particularly the way they bungled the Fisk situation.
 

moretsyndrome

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 24, 2006
1,500
Pawtucket
I'm a pitching guy, and man, those Clemens starts from '86 (the season that pulled my pennant fever out of remission) through the early '90s and every one of Pedro's starts were freakin' events for me.

But only when they were with the Sox. I don't have a dish or anything, so I don't even think I've seen Pedro pitch more than a handful of games outside of his time here. And I've probably only seen Clemens pitch a few times (mostly postseason) outside of his time here or when he was opposing the Sox.

I don't know the percentage, but laundry dominates.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
56,101
Rotten Apple
Laundry. I really never even look at a former Sox player's stats when they leave the team. That's not to say it doesn't hurt when a player leaves. Fisk and Dewey were good examples of that for me, particularly the way they bungled the Fisk situation.
Even as a kid losing Fisk and Lynn was painful. Mookie is still painful.
There was some momentum (I guess mostly Eddie Andelman) in the 80's/90's for trying to get the Braves back as an NL team and I would have been into that.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

Red-headed Skrub child
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,131
Seacoast NH
Or to put it another more specific way, are you okay with the FO letting Bogaerts walk as long as the Sox have Story to slide over and take his place?
If the FO philosophy and execution leads to results, I'm okay with it. Letting Mookie walk kind of sucked but the Sox came back and had a great run in '21* without him. I think if you're rooting for the laundry you're going to find the guys that cycle through you enjoy rooting for, kind of a love the one you're with situation. Others have said it but in the free agent era having that lifer superstar player is such a rare commodity. I do think it's much tougher to root for the home team in a city where they watch their homegrown talent leave and they never get any success to offset that disappointment.

*Yes, I know there was a 2020 season but if no one was at the games did it really happen?
 

SoxInTheMist

lurker
Jul 18, 2005
201
Woodinville, WA
Without going too V&N, if Covid hit in 2004 or 2007 we might have a different list of hated players. I could easily see a world in which G38, Papelbon, Beckett, etc. refused to get vaxxed. While I am as frustrated as a lot of you with regard to their decisions, I don't think it's fair to hold it against them in comparison to historical players, because we don't know what decisions those guys would have made. But it's entirely fair to compare them to say, the Yankees, who were able to bring their entire roster across the border.
Quite true. If I had known then what I know now about G38 that definitely would have lessened my enjoyment of that team. The politics of the past 6 or so years and the intermixed covid issues have really done a number on me as far as players I root for. Try as I might, I just cannot see the "other side of the coin" on certain issues and beliefs and I have an extremely difficult time rooting for those individuals.

I found SOSH back in 2003 because of G38 and his Thanksgiving meal. It's been quite a roller coaster since then for us all.
 

Don Buddin's GS

Member
SoSH Member
Growing up in the “25 players, 25 cabs” era of the Sox in the ‘50s we didn’t have much choice. Got to root for Ted at the end of his career and guys like Pete Runnels, Jackie Jensen and Dick Radatz.

After four WC in this century I’m more of a laundry guy now.
 

brs3

sings praises of pinstripes
SoSH Member
May 20, 2008
5,103
Jackson Heights, NYC
I like seeing the same guys year after year, i like watching them grow into veterans. I wasn't mad when Ellsbury left, but was anybody? I was mad when Mookie left, but that was because they were less good without him. They were less good without Lester. I loved Wakefield's perpetual 1 year deals. I love longevity, even at the risk of being less good to some degree. I dislike 'IN CHAIM I TRUST',. i dislike dissecting payroll. In a lot of ways I root for the known guy and hope the new guy becomes a favorite. I dislike having to get acquainted with new regulars repeatedly. I sure like championships, though. So my convoluted answer is I have no idea.
 

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,114
Honolulu HI
After last night it’s going to be hard to ever root for Houck again. This new crazy, post-Trump, post- social media world leaves me infuriated too often as it is, so it would at least be nice if it didn’t have to infringe on the mindless escapism that baseball usually provides. I mean, Jesus, what’s wrong with this kid? Millions of grandmas have taken this vaccine and yet, this strong young man is willing to let down his team and endanger his career because he’s too scared to face the needle:(
Sure, sure, I know. He probably read somewhere about Bill Gates’ sinister plot and all, but Jesus Christ, when did we all get so stupid?
But yeah, what does it mean when he’s next pitching for us in a key moment? Obviously, I’ll be rooting for him. Which is strange I guess. But honestly, if and when he’s traded for a veteran first baseman I certainly won’t be as heart broken (I usually love following young pitchers) as I as I otherwise would have been..
 
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Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,024
Twin Cities
It’s not either or for me. Obviously I root for the team; players come and go. Was I a little sad about Nomar going and not being there at the finish line? Yes. Did it significantly detract from my enjoyment of winning it all? Hell no.

Anyway, for me, rooting for specific players is fun and part of the process of being a fan. But flags also fly forever…
 

Nixon Now!!

lurker
Oct 22, 2018
6
Eugene, Oregon
I'll cast one more vote for the laundry. A pandemic of Red Sox fever hit my high school (western Mass) during the Luis Tiant era and I never recovered. But seeing El Tiante in pinstripes cemented my loyalty to the laundry. Same with Johnny Damon. I was a fan when he wore the laundry, but I joined those flipping quarters at him from the bleachers when he went to the MFYs.

Of course these players are professionals in a huge money-spinning business, and they should be prepared to being traded like baseball cards. Thankfully none of my flying quarters landed anywhere near Damon.
 

Jungleland

Member
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Aug 2, 2009
1,838
It’s definitely laundry for me, but the more success the team had, (and I’m tempted to say teams, as the Boston sports success of the last two decades as a whole weighs in here), the more I’ve found myself wanting to root for players I like even if it’s to the detriment of fully maximizing the team.

Like, I’m a big believer in the Belichick get rid of a guy one year early rather than one year too late thing. But I wanted the Sox to keep Mookie and I would have tolerated that the contract would probably really mess up a season or two on the back end in most realistic scenarios. A Celtics championship in the next few years will be a little less sweet for me if they need to trade Marcus to do it. There’s probably Bruins and Patriots examples as well.

So ultimately it’s always been laundry, but the part of me that’s seen 4 World Series including a 108 win team values liking the team A LOT more than I’d have said 10 years ago.

Ironically, I don’t feel the same about Brady moving on at all, but maybe the optics of it at least partly being his decision help me sleep easier there.
 

Seels

Member
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Jul 20, 2005
4,275
NH
A mix, but definitely not just the laundry. I don't like Chaim and don't think this team is seriously competitive despite their w/l. I think there's risk for both players and fans in the reluctance to offer players market value contracts. I'm here to be a baseball fan, not read a spreadsheet. I think the approach the team has taken in the last ten years or so has been frustrating, even despite their success in 2018 and almost in 2021.

I don't think you can go all in on never having it be about the player. Fans want to buy jerseys and have a reason to be invested in guys beyond 2-3 years. I doubt there's more than 5% of the fan base that was more satisfied with Porcello/Price than they'd have been with Lester, and the same can be said of Mookie. When we're watching a couple of 2 war guys replace Devers and Bogaerts, I'm not going to just shrug off the Sox saving $45m a year or whatever.

I'd have said laundry 15 years ago, even after Nomar and Pedro and Manny. But the investment (both time and monetary) is harder to justify if they're just shrugging off good players for meh players meh prospects.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
62,236
A mix, but definitely not just the laundry. I don't like Chaim and don't think this team is seriously competitive despite their w/l. I think there's risk for both players and fans in the reluctance to offer players market value contracts.
IMO there is much more risk for the team and the fans in offering players market value contracts, just look at the Angels.
 

Seels

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Jul 20, 2005
4,275
NH
IMO there is much more risk for the team and the fans in offering players market value contracts, just look at the Angels.
That comparison doesn't hold. The players the Angels went after weren't their own, weren't in their 20s, and aren't even the reason the Angels have been terrible. The Angels lack of success is because they have not bothered with a pitching staff in 15 years, and because they simply can not draft / evaluate talent. The Angels aren't where they are because they gave money to people like Rendon and Pujols.

This guy is the best player the Angels have drafted in the last decade. That's why they suck.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fletcda02.shtml
 

Remagellan

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Lifetime Member
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It's mostly laundry, but it's definitely a mix. I look at the team as a series of cohorts, and you want each one to win at least one ring. It troubles me that the Fisk-Yaz-Tiant-Lee-Lynn-Rice-Burleson-Remy-Evans group never won a ring. Whereas the current group, to me, is playing with house money, because a number of them won their rings in 2018 (especially the most significant--X and Raffy).

It's easy to say it's only the laundry that matters, but I'll bet--and I'll leave it to the resident Yankee fans to chime in about this---it will hurt a bit if Judge were to move on after this season without winning a ring with them. Mookie winning in 2018 definitely cushioned the blow of him leaving a bit. (A very small bit, but still.)
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
8,382
Duval
I don’t think it’s binary. How I cheer for past players is dependent on how they leave. I absolutely cheered for Jon Lester and was happy for his success in Chicago, despite it being attached to someone else that I couldn’t stand (Maddon).
Ellsbury or Damon? GFY, guys. Mookie? Just SMH. Mo? Whatever.
chasIng money makes me I different. Chases out of town? I can actively cheer for you. Go to the MFY for a few extra dollars? You’re dead to me.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
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Jul 15, 2005
62,236
That comparison doesn't hold. The players the Angels went after weren't their own, weren't in their 20s, and aren't even the reason the Angels have been terrible. The Angels lack of success is because they have not bothered with a pitching staff in 15 years, and because they simply can not draft / evaluate talent. The Angels aren't where they are because they gave money to people like Rendon and Pujols.

This guy is the best player the Angels have drafted in the last decade. That's why they suck.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fletcda02.shtml
Maybe not the best example, but the point remains the same. The way that baseball is currently set up, signing superstars to their fair market value ends up hurting the team more often than not. This sucks, no argument about that part, but every team is dealing with it.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
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Jul 15, 2005
62,236
It's easy to say it's only the laundry that matters, but I'll bet--and I'll leave it to the resident Yankee fans to chime in about this---it will hurt a bit if Judge were to move on after this season without winning a ring with them.
Yeah, this is complicated for me. On one hand, thankfully I care way way less about sports than I did 20 or 30 years ago, but on the other hand, Judge is literally my favorite Yankee ever. I made a thread here on the day he was drafted, I've only done that one other time (because Anthony Siegler was a switch-hitting catcher as well as a switch-throwing pitcher, how could I resist?). I'm not really anticipating how I might react if Judge leaves, with or without a title, I'll see then how I feel, I guess.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
33,970
AZ
Laundry. If you replaced the entire team tomorrow, I would root for them. I would root for them even against a team of my favorite former Red Sox. But actually I don't even really have favorite former Red Sox. When they are gone they are gone and I won't give a shit about them until they come back to wave at the crowd in retirement.

Papi might have tested this if he'd gone to another team, but I don't give a shit about Tom Brady so I think I'm on firm ground predicting that it would be the same even for Papi.

Don't get me wrong though. If they replaced all the Red Sox it would take some time for me to warm up to them. I mean, part of rooting for the laundry is that you remember the things that the guys who wore the laundry did in the past and the times as a rookie they crushed a 102 mile an hour fastball off Aroldis Chapman or pour Gatorade on Jahmai or whatever. But no team is ever replaced all at once so this is always gradual and there's always stories like that.

All of this said, Laundry does not make me like a player. It is not a magic wand. I fucking hate Chris Sale. I will root for him to succeed when he is wearing the uniform but I hate him and will be fine when he leaves so that I don't have to root for him any longer. And that's really how I view it -- I have to root for him right now. Because laundry. I believe there may come a day when I am unable to root for a particular player even if he wears the laundry. Like if Curt were to find a fountain of youth. I don't know what I'll do when that happens. I think it is coming inevitably and imminently. I suspect it will happen in football before baseball. But we will see I guess. I'll probably either stop caring about the sport or I'll just follow the team with something like detachment until the Tyreek Hill Curt Schilling guy is gone.

It's the best when you like the player too. Like Papi. There's really no doubt about that.
 

Joe D Reid

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Jan 15, 2004
3,816
Laundry, although I could see a world in which that softens.

I suppose that when growing up in MA, I really focused at least as much on player comparisons (Boggs is better than Mattingly; Clemens is better than Stewart; Dewey is better than all things) as I did on laundry. Then I moved away and grew up some. Those actions combined to (a) naturally make me more of a laundry guy, because the Sox hat I wore in NYC and CA was a statement of identity regardless of the players on the team and (b) cause me to notice that the team started actually winning stuff once they got a little less precious about personalities. I am now moving back to MA. Weirdly, that has caused me to toss a bunch of Sox paraphrenelia, because while a Sox mug in CA is interesting, a Sox mug in Chelmsford is kind of table stakes. I feel a little more freedom to root for specific guys now that I don't have to rep the entire organization and region.

But bottom line is that I would rather win a WS every 5 years than have consistent players. Having both is obviously best--hi Papi!--and shedding loyal players only to fall short is obviously worst, so ditching guys carries risk. But I think back to other local heroes, and in retrospect both Pudge's jersey retirement and Bourque's Cup ceremony were ultimately sad because the team never accomplished anything.
 

Gdiguy

Member
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Jul 15, 2005
5,409
San Diego, CA
That comparison doesn't hold. The players the Angels went after weren't their own, weren't in their 20s, and aren't even the reason the Angels have been terrible. The Angels lack of success is because they have not bothered with a pitching staff in 15 years, and because they simply can not draft / evaluate talent. The Angels aren't where they are because they gave money to people like Rendon and Pujols.

This guy is the best player the Angels have drafted in the last decade. That's why they suck.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fletcda02.shtml
Also - while it would be annoying to be an Angels' fan right now, if I'm honest I'd enjoy watching Ohtani and Trout every night more than if I were a TB fan

I dunno; I think I'm inbetween, obviously having the team suck is a huge negative, but I do think you need some attachment players that stay around. They don't have to be the best players on the team (though it obviously helps), but even just having someone like Wakefield to me makes it a lot easier to maintain interest year to year than if the team is just randomly assembled every year
 

Daniel_Son

Member
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May 25, 2021
699
San Diego
Laundry, although I could see a world in which that softens.

I suppose that when growing up in MA, I really focused at least as much on player comparisons (Boggs is better than Mattingly; Clemens is better than Stewart; Dewey is better than all things) as I did on laundry. Then I moved away and grew up some. Those actions combined to (a) naturally make me more of a laundry guy, because the Sox hat I wore in NYC and CA was a statement of identity regardless of the players on the team and (b) cause me to notice that the team started actually winning stuff once they got a little less precious about personalities. I am now moving back to MA. Weirdly, that has caused me to toss a bunch of Sox paraphrenelia, because while a Sox mug in CA is interesting, a Sox mug in Chelmsford is kind of table stakes. I feel a little more freedom to root for specific guys now that I don't have to rep the entire organization and region.

But bottom line is that I would rather win a WS every 5 years than have consistent players. Having both is obviously best--hi Papi!--and shedding loyal players only to fall short is obviously worst, so ditching guys carries risk. But I think back to other local heroes, and in retrospect both Pudge's jersey retirement and Bourque's Cup ceremony were ultimately sad because the team never accomplished anything.
I'm a bit younger than you, so I could be wrong about this, but I'm really struggling to think of someone the team held onto past their prime that was ultimately detrimental to their success. Especially in the free agency era. Fisk, Lynn, Clemens, Boggs, Pedro, Nomar, Manny... all gone despite being fan favorites. Maybe I'm forgetting someone?
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
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Jul 15, 2005
62,236
Googling a bit, it's kind of amazing that 4 of the biggest 6 deals in club history all got traded to the Dodgers before the contract had finished, the other two are still going (Sale/Story).

David Price (7/217)
Manny Ramirez (8/160)
Adrian Gonzalez (7/154)
Chris Sale (5/145)
Carl Crawford (7/142)
Trevor Story (6/140)

The Manny contract was great, the Sale/Story ones are still in progress, the A-Gon one was moved in the first season, and you know about Price and Crawford.

My conclusion here is that it is pretty funny to me that some people are so concerned about whether or not the current Chaim/Henry combo will add big salaries or not, because to me it looks like big salary players (with the major exception of Manny in 2004/2007 as well as Price/Sale in 2018) have not had much to do with BOS's 4 titles between 2004-2018.
 

catsooey

lurker
Jun 27, 2019
100
I really like the team and I don‘t want to see us lose our core of Devers, X, etc. I was a Bloom supporter at first but now I’m firmly in the anti-Bloom camp. And I’m not a fan of Henry and the front office either. I think it’s great to have philosophies but to be too committed to one way of thinking is a huge mistake. The fact that these ‘philosophies’ change so frequently and are always extreme is a big problem to me. I would like John Henry to not have any philosophies about baseball, or at least keep them to a minimum. And I think Bloom is not a good fit for the Sox. I think he’s extremely talented but his concept of building teams which put saving money as the number one priority - even if it means leaving glaring holes in the bullpen and closer roles - is not right for a team like Boston. I’m sure Henry loves it, but to me it’s not good for baseball in this city. I‘m not a laundry guy because I think a team needs an identity both for the team to play like a team and for the fans to connect with the game - especially younger fans. I don’t think everybody has to stay 10+ years, but that you need a core and you need to invest in that core and build around it. I think Chaim’s thinking is good in certain situations, but not as a philosophy.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I really like the team and I don‘t want to see us lose our core of Devers, X, etc. I was a Bloom supporter at first but now I’m firmly in the anti-Bloom camp. And I’m not a fan of Henry and the front office either. I think it’s great to have philosophies but to be too committed to one way of thinking is a huge mistake. The fact that these ‘philosophies’ change so frequently and are always extreme is a big problem to me. I would like John Henry to not have any philosophies about baseball, or at least keep them to a minimum. And I think Bloom is not a good fit for the Sox. I think he’s extremely talented but his concept of building teams which put saving money as the number one priority - even if it means leaving glaring holes in the bullpen and closer roles - is not right for a team like Boston. I’m sure Henry loves it, but to me it’s not good for baseball in this city. I‘m not a laundry guy because I think a team needs an identity both for the team to play like a team and for the fans to connect with the game - especially younger fans. I don’t think everybody has to stay 10+ years, but that you need a core and you need to invest in that core and build around it. I think Chaim’s thinking is good in certain situations, but not as a philosophy.
Curious as to what ownerships in Red Sox history you have liked, or ownerships of other teams that you prefer to the Henry Administration?
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
24,577
I think it’s great to have philosophies but to be too committed to one way of thinking is a huge mistake. The fact that these ‘philosophies’ change so frequently and are always extreme is a big problem to me.
I'm not sure I understand this. It looks like you're describing an overall "philosophy" that involves flexibility (it keeps changing) not rigidity (committed to one way of thinking).
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Jan 23, 2009
17,030
Maine
I really like the team and I don‘t want to see us lose our core of Devers, X, etc. I was a Bloom supporter at first but now I’m firmly in the anti-Bloom camp. And I’m not a fan of Henry and the front office either. I think it’s great to have philosophies but to be too committed to one way of thinking is a huge mistake. The fact that these ‘philosophies’ change so frequently and are always extreme is a big problem to me. I would like John Henry to not have any philosophies about baseball, or at least keep them to a minimum. And I think Bloom is not a good fit for the Sox. I think he’s extremely talented but his concept of building teams which put saving money as the number one priority - even if it means leaving glaring holes in the bullpen and closer roles - is not right for a team like Boston. I’m sure Henry loves it, but to me it’s not good for baseball in this city. I‘m not a laundry guy because I think a team needs an identity both for the team to play like a team and for the fans to connect with the game - especially younger fans. I don’t think everybody has to stay 10+ years, but that you need a core and you need to invest in that core and build around it. I think Chaim’s thinking is good in certain situations, but not as a philosophy.
The "glaring holes" in the bullpen and closer roles have little to do with saving money. In fact, nothing with the Red Sox philosophy has anything to do with saving money. The franchise has consistently been one of the top spending teams in the league for the entirety of Henry's tenure as owner. This notion that Henry is about putting money in his own pocket at the expense of the product on the field has to fucking die because it is utter bullshit. FOUR FUCKING CHAMPIONSHIPS IN TWENTY YEARS. After the previous nearly 90 years of futility, I can't comprehend the idea that this ownership isn't good for baseball in Boston. I'll take another 100 years like we've just had over even five more like we had with any of the previous owners.
 

dirtynine

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Dec 17, 2002
6,774
Philly
Laundry. Players get old, sign elsewhere, years go on, hearts break… I don’t want to be reminded of stuff that’s becoming lesser-than. Laundry embodies hope. Every spring the flowers come up, but I normally don’t miss any specific ones from last spring. Maybe every so often (Mookie).

Incidentally, this is why it’s such a tragedy that the All Star Game went to generic AL/NL uniforms. The coolest part was seeing the uniform I cared about on that stage. Even if it was Scott Cooper and he was a mandatory pick to make sure every club was represented. He was wearing the right laundry.
 

simplicio

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Apr 11, 2012
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The laundry focuses the narrative that drives my interest in following baseball through the seasons. I'll still take joy in exceptional ex-Sox doing their thing though, I never stopped watching Iglesias and JBJ defensive highlights after they left.