How should the All Star Team be selected?

[BroodsSexton]

Manfred "open to change" on voting for ASG: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/mlb--open-to-change--to-all-star-game-fan-voting-says-rob-manfred-130945029.html

 
If you haven't been following, as of today, 8 Kansas City Royals would be starting for the AL squad during the all-star game.  Royals fans are stuffing the boxes successfully.
 
Manfred (in the linked article) has acknowledged that he may open to change "if we get a result that is not consistent with the goals of the system that is in place.''  It's not clear to me (from that quote, anyways), whether he means he might unilaterally revise the 2015 team, or whether he means systematic changes in the future.
 
In any event, I thought it might be interesting to discuss (i) whether the AL should field 8 Royals, if that's the fan vote, or whether Manfred should step in and do something else; and (ii) how others would propose to change (or keep) the selection process.  I know nobody actually cares.  Just for discussion's sake. 
 
I would not be opposed to the Commissioner stepping in here, and perhaps conducting an emergency vote of managers and players to elect a representative all-star team.  It would be news for a day, and go down in history, but who cares?  The game's just an exhibition anyways, so a little drama and history wouldn't kill it.  And at the end of the day, if I care at all, I'd rather a true all-star team, rather than the Royals All-Stars.  
 
More generally, I actually think this might be a good place for the sportswriters to get their votes.  The media acts almost as a republican body for fans, and would avoid shenanigans of the sort that we're seeing now.  Maybe have the fans vote for the top three in each position and then have the sportswriters select from those three (if we want to institute a bicameral legislature).

 

[McDrew]

The fans who vote are more likely to be the fans who WATCH.  MLB cares about revenue above all else, and they will always keep All-star starter voting done by fans as long as there is no compelling fiscal reason to change.  It lets the fans seem like they have control over something.  I like that the Manager can then "correct" exclusions by filling out the remaining roster, although I'd like the "one-per-team" unofiicial-offical requirement done with (although again, without a compelling reason to, it won't change). 

 

[Bigpupp]

Someone said it in the other thread, but I think a few of the non-Royals candidates have a miraculous come back and win the fan vote this year and there are a few minor changes next year (like making sure the original ballot isn't already filled out with your favorite team).

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

WAR leaders by position at a predefined cutoff date; say 6/30.

 

[swiftaw]

As aa fan, I would be angry if they don't use the fan results this year. You can't hype up the ASG as the fan's game, and allow 35 votes per fan, and then change the results because you don't like them.

If you want to change the system for future years then fine, but you can't change this year's just because the fans didn't vote 'properly'.

If I had my choice, I would let the starters be chosen by highest WAR from July 1 the previous year to June 30 the current year, and then the reserves coming from a combination of fan/player/manager voting.

 

[BroodsSexton]

Who would be the starting teams this year, if we went by WAR from July 1, 2014?  How does one figure that out?
 
I guess this goes back to the age-old question of what the purpose of the All-Star game is--recognizing all-star talent, or recognizing notoriety. 

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Who would be the starting teams this year, if we went by WAR from July 1, 2014?  How does one figure that out?
 
I guess this goes back to the age-old question of what the purpose of the All-Star game is--recognizing all-star talent, or recognizing notoriety. 

 
There's also the related age-old question of whether all-star talent means long-standing talent, or otherwise ordinary players who are playing out of their gourds at the start of the current season.

 

[kenneycb]

Who would be the starting teams this year, if we went by WAR from July 1, 2014?  How does one figure that out?
 
I guess this goes back to the age-old question of what the purpose of the All-Star game is--recognizing all-star talent, or recognizing notoriety. 

It's purpose, at least now, is neither.  It's to appease sponsors for a couple of days.

 

[brs3]

The vote should stand as is. The casual non-fan who is watching the All-Star Game might ask why the huge Royals push, and I don't think it's a bad thing. Let each of the 8 be introduced. Then have some side agreements made that half of the 8 won't actually play due to 'soreness' or 'flu like symptoms(oh bummer, all 4 guys ate dinner at the same place and got sick), and let the next worthy AS player take his spot. 
 
If they change it, let fans pick the top 3 players to win the Midsummer MVP Awards in Pitching, Hitting, and Defense. Allow living Hall of Famers to vote for the starting 9 in each league. Turn the ASG parade into a presentation of the HoF'ers and their picks. Let players/managers fill in the rest of the rosters. Likely the top 3 will be chosen by fans, HoF'ers, and teammates collectively. If that's the case, the starting 9 elected by the living HoF'ers are separate from the top 3. The rest of the roster additions are separate from the top 3 & the HoF'er votes. Expand the rosters to include more great players.
 
Have a huge ceremony with the Top 3 flipping coins to decide next year's home field advantage. Rinse and repeat every year.
 
Make the game an exhibition. 
 
Save some of the HoF'er picks for later in the game. Turn the 7th Inning Stretch into when some of the HoF'er picks come in, so it's not the third string All Stars in the 8th inning. If the game ends in a tie, bring back the Top 3 to settle the Exhibition Game. Put the word Exhibition in the headline, so there's no confusion. 
 
edit: Get rid of the 1 player requirement from each team to play. Invite a representative if no player is chosen, and let them participate in all of the festivities except playing in the game. Or, let them play, as additional members of the ASG roster, not to take away a spot from someone else.

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

I didn't think about a start date in the previous season. I was thinking WAR leaders for current season. Anyway, it would look like this as of today:
 
NL
C Buster Posey
1B Paul Goldschmidt
2B Dee Gordon
SS Brandon Crawford
3B Todd Frazier
RF Bryce Harper
CF Joc Pederson
LF Nori Aoki
 
AL
C Russell Martin
1B Miguel Cabrera
2B Jason Kipnis
SS Xander Bogaerts
3B Josh Donaldson
RF Josh Reddick/Jose Bautista (currently tied)
CF Mike Trout
LF Yoenis Cespedes
 
DH can either be fan vote or manager decision. Pitchers are chosen by availability depending on their last start or appearance.

 

[swiftaw]

There's also the related age-old question of whether all-star talent means long-standing talent, or otherwise ordinary players who are playing out of their gourds at the start of the current season.

Which is why I suggested going back to July 1 the previous season, so you can also include players who were hot the latter half of the season before.

 

[swiftaw]

Who would be the starting teams this year, if we went by WAR from July 1, 2014?  How does one figure that out?
 
I guess this goes back to the age-old question of what the purpose of the All-Star game is--recognizing all-star talent, or recognizing notoriety.

FanGraphs allows you to look at stats (including WAR) over the past calendar year.

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

If we use the calendar year qualifier, it goes like this:
 
NL
C Buster Posey
1B Anthony Rizzo
2B Dee Gordon
SS Jhonny Peralta
3B Todd Frazier
RF Giancarlo Stanton
CF Andrew McCutchen
LF Bryce Harper
 
AL
C Brian McCann
1B Miguel Cabrera
2B Brian Dozier
SS Jose Reyes
3B Josh Donaldson
RF Lorenzo Cain
CF Mike Trout
LF Alex Gordon
 
Current season to date, and calendar year WAR leaders are both solid teams. The league will never go for it, but I wish they would try it at least once.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Either make it like the major awards and have writers vote or make it like the NFL and split it by thirds, fans/players/managers. And also, get rid of the mandatory rep for each team.

 

[Bigpupp]

If they insist in a fan vote and having a mandatory rep why not let fans pick who the teams rep will be? What could go wrong!?

 

[Marbleheader]

Abolish the All Star Game, player performance is rewarded at the end of each season anyway.

 

[Kliq]

Two rich guys bid for the right to be General Managers (proceeds go to charity) and then they draft the teams player by player. Fuck the AS mattering for home field advantage. 

 

[Fishercat]

Keep the results from this year. This system is what it is, and if we get eight Roayls so be it.
 
As for future years, I support keeping the fan vote as they game shouldn't matter at all (it does but I don't think a quorum of writers is going to be better in most scenarios, this one yes). They need to modify how the fan vote is done (it's way too easy to have a pre-set ballot and just spam votes, and the whole team thing as well. I would also support a future rule making a maximum number of all stars for a given team (or just starters). Keep the mandatory player for each team

 

[grimshaw]

Let the fans pick their team representative, and the manager pick the rest.
 
Have it every year in Colorado because Home Run Derby.

 

[Rasputin]

The opposing managers should pick. Get rid of the stupid home field advantage thing and I think no manager is going to be petty enough to not pick a legitimate team.

 

[Jnai]

Someone noted that the way votes are actually submitted are via an image link and URL.
 
Literally, SoSH could probably vote someone to the allstar game by embedding the image into the page header several times.

 

[shawnrbu]

Let the fans decide the All Star starters.  I think it would be awesome to see 8 Royals starting the game.  I could not tell you much of anything from the past five All Star games aside from the whole Wainwright/Jeter/Erin Andrews/Kirk Minihane fiasco.  Talk to me in five years and I will remember the year 8 Royals were in the starting lineup like I remember Tony Gwynn scoring the winning run in 1994 on a bang-bang play, Pedro and Ted in 99 and Levels of Uggla from 2009. 

 

[Orel Miraculous]

Let the fans decide the All Star starters.  I think it would be awesome to see 8 Royals starting the game.  I could not tell you much of anything from the past five All Star games aside from the whole Wainwright/Jeter/Erin Andrews/Kirk Minihane fiasco.  Talk to me in five years and I will remember the year 8 Royals were in the starting lineup like I remember Tony Gwynn scoring the winning run in 1994 on a bang-bang play, Pedro and Ted in 99 and Levels of Uggla from 2009. 

 
Completely agree. In fact, let's go all in and have Bumgarner toe the rubber for the NL team--it would be a blast. Baseball's fun, remember people? 

 

[Toe Nash]

I don't see a big difference between 8 Royals getting in and Jeter or Ripken getting in every year, even when they were old and crummy. Have the fans vote for backups and pitchers too. Who cares?

 

[BroodsSexton]

Someone noted that the way votes are actually submitted are via an image link and URL.
 
Literally, SoSH could probably vote someone to the allstar game by embedding the image into the page header several times.

 
Oooooh, I think we have a project for 2016. 

 

[barbed wire Bob]

Someone noted that the way votes are actually submitted are via an image link and URL.
 
Literally, SoSH could probably vote someone to the allstar game by embedding the image into the page header several times.

BROCK HOLT!

 

[glennhoffmania]

"if we get a result that is not consistent with the goals of the system that is in place.''
 

 
This makes no sense. The goal of the system that's in place is to have the starters be determined by the fan vote.  If that's what happens this year, even if the results are objectively stupid, how is it not consistent with the goal?

 

[BroodsSexton]

Two rich guys bid for the right to be General Managers (proceeds go to charity) and then they draft the teams player by player. Fuck the AS mattering for home field advantage. 

 
This would be awesome.  I'd add to it:  Fans get to vote for the players who will attend.  The selected players all line up for the draft, which will take place right before the game, with the rich guys bucking up to see who gets the first pick.  The game takes place on pavement, behind a school yard, in a different small town every year.

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

MLB has cancelled as many as 65 million All-Star ballots but fails to mention how it changes the current roster which I assume it must.
 
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-06-18/mlb-cancels-65-million-all-star-ballots-royals-omar-infane-fraud-fake-votes

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

MLB has cancelled as many as 65 million All-Star ballots but fails to mention how it changes the current roster which I assume it must.
 
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-06-18/mlb-cancels-65-million-all-star-ballots-royals-omar-infane-fraud-fake-votes

That's fucking BS. the all star game is a publicity stunt, and more people would have tuned in with the Royals all starting.

 

[BigMike]

Updated headline.   Major league baseball cancels 65 million votes.   Now realizes they have no real vote
 
I voted for other.   I want Chimps with Darts selecting the team.
 
In terms of who would pick the least deserving team I figure
 
1) Sportswriters
2) Old dudes
3) Fans
4) Managers
5) Chimps with Darts
 
Who Cares.   MLB needs to investigate the DH category in the AL.   Imagine a player hitting his 660th HR, and 3000th hit in the first half of a season, and only running 5th at his position in the All star voting :q:

 

[glennhoffmania]

MLB has cancelled as many as 65 million All-Star ballots but fails to mention how it changes the current roster which I assume it must.
 
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-06-18/mlb-cancels-65-million-all-star-ballots-royals-omar-infane-fraud-fake-votes

I read it as the cancelled votes are already reflected in the totals so what we're seeing are the current rosters.

What I'd like to know is what fraud was committed. It's not like you need to register to vote and show a valid ID.

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

Updated headline.   Major league baseball cancels 65 million votes.   Now realizes they have no real vote
 
I voted for other.   I want Chimps with Darts selecting the team.
 
In terms of who would pick the least deserving team I figure
 
1)
2) Old dudes
3)
4)
5)
 
Who Cares.   MLB needs to investigate the DH category in the AL.   Imagine a player hitting his 660th HR, and 3000th hit in the first half of a season, and only running 5th at his position in the All star voting :q:

 
"Old dudes" ?.... hmmmm...

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

I'm thinking one vote per person for each position....WRONG!...voters are allowed to vote 35 times...

 

[j44thor]

I read it as the cancelled votes are already reflected in the totals so what we're seeing are the current rosters.
What I'd like to know is what fraud was committed. It's not like you need to register to vote and show a valid ID.

Voting with other people's email addresses or just fake email addresses.
There are stories about how the system was manipulated due to mlb's woeful safeguards to ensure real voting.

As soon as you make something online only this is what you are inviting. Perhaps the best part of this is that mlb claims to intentionally make it easy to subvert the system in hopes that people don't attempt more sophisticated hacks that they can't easily detect.

 

[glennhoffmania]

As long as they end the ridiculous idea that it should count for something I wouldn't care if someone voted 1,000 times. It's supposed to be a fun exhibition but Bud ruined that.

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

What's the reasoning for 35 votes per person?  Doesn't it promote unbalanced voting?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

What's the reasoning for 35 votes per person?  Doesn't it promote unbalanced voting?

 
Unbalanced how?

 

[AB in DC]

That's exactly why I voted "Other".  Fan vote is fine, but the 35-votes-per-person thing is just lame.  My guess is that most voters outside KC don't even realize that they can vote 35 times.  What's the point?

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

 
Unbalanced how?

Theoretically.... I'm thinking voter a) votes once to ten times for a player where voter b) votes 35 times for his favorite player.

 

[PseuFighter]

Do paper ballots even exist anymore? I've been to plenty of games this season, and I've yet to see them.
 
edit: http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-03-17/going-green-no-more-paper-ballots-for-mlb-all-star-game-voting answers my question. I can't believe they did away with ballots at the parks. They were a pretty real highlight, when ushers would pass through the park passing them out, and people would fill them out / talk baseball, etc. Plus, *real* ballot stuffing was fun; taking a pen through 10+ ballots at a time. I can't believe they killed this off.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

None this year

 

[usernamedc]

I don't see how people can vote 35 times. I've voted 5 times and I'm already bored.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

You don't live in Kansas City.

Everything really isn't up to date there.

 

[Dan Murfman]

I don't see how people can vote 35 times. I've voted 5 times and I'm already bored.

Me too. And yesterday I received 30 emails from MLB thanking me for my vote

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Of all the stupid exhibition games, only baseball has the potential of being a real event (since it's hardly a team sport). Giving fans a say in who plays does a fine job of relegating the exhibition back to the turd bowl. Giving that turd bowl exhibition any credence at all (advantage in the World Series) makes the whole thing even more psychedelic.
 
Agree with those who think the choice should be purely statistical. What better way to award first half performance than to highlight the best players of the first half (accounting for changing teams and/or leagues and DL stints)?
 
Then baseball could have a second exhibition game prior to the World Series called "The Barnum and Bailey Michelob Beer Nostalgia Fueled Ballot Stuffing All World Bestest Players Sportin' Exhibition" as voted by the fans, but with the only voting outlets being bars. Every player selected (and not in the playoffs) would be rewarded with an unlimited use of greenies the next season.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I think fans should have a say, but there's a simple way to avoid the problem we're having now: don't let them vote at every position.
 
Here's what I would do:
 
Stage 1: the player with the highest WAR (version TBD) in his league at each position as of June 20 makes it onto the roster automatically. This guarantees that the best current players, by some objective measure, make it on. If we don't like WAR, use OPS or something else easier for fans/media to understand. Positions picked include all 8 defensive positions, SP, and RP.
 
Stage 2: fans vote for their favorite player not by position but by team. Ballot consists of, say, five nominees from each team, provided by coaches and/or sportswriters. Voting runs June 20-July 4. If a player already picked in Stage 1 tops the ballot for his team, then the #2 vote-getter for that team makes it.
 
After these two stages, 25 players have been chosen. The best players (more or less) are on the team, and at least one fan-chosen player from each team is on. 
 
Stage 3: All-Star managers pick the final 9 players. This ensures that positional imbalances resulting from stage 2 are accounted for.

 

[AB in DC]

No limit to the number of times everyone can vote in the Final Vote?  Seriously?  That's lame.

 

[BosRedSox5]

Before you can decide on a voting mechanism, you need to first decide what the All-Star game should be. Is it for the absolute best players or it's biggest stars? Now that the game "matters" shouldn't you have the best players possible? Then again, if you want ratings, you need the team that people want to see. People want Jeter and Ripken type legacy players. People watch the game to see big names, not necessarily to see players like Xander Bogaerts who is arguably the best SS in the AL, but not a household name who is especially popular on a national level. 

Since the game now determines home field advantage, I feel like it should be the best players and I don't trust the manager, fans, sportswriters or the commissioner to select the truly best players. Get an outside agency to select the All-Stars. Have them come up with some algorithm that determines a player's All-Star rating. Have this create a list of x number of hitters and x number of pitchers. Then the manager can use that list to determine roles on the team. The manager also would act as a tiebreaker if two players had identical ratings and if players pulled out of the event they would be replaced by the next player on the list who can play the missing position.