Can we admit that the team has been better with him off the court than on? -5.2 on/+2.0 off? And that's with Pritchard, Ojeleye, and Teague, fellow bench mobbers, all having a positive +/-. Or is that verbotten heresy?
I Believe in Time Lord...Why Can't You?
- Thread starter Bernie Carbohydrate
- Start date
Since people around here are using +/- at halftime I'm sure you'll get a few nitwits to agree with you.
I don't like + - much at all. I feel on this board, as if often the case people are too hard on the vets (Teague, Thompson) and forgiving of the kids. TT's guy gets an O board there are bound to be three immediate gamethread posts. TL has the same thing happen crickets.
+ - is used like ERA or WAR around here is a clearly perfect stat and it isn't even close to that.
But, TL continued to get playing time after the wheels fell off. Semi and Pritchard have not. Teague was banished or hurt and either got healthy and reestablished himself during the recent win streak.
TL clearly improved, and during the Febrary slide was perhaps the guy that did his job the best.
Plus Minus isn't even very good at evaluating lineups, since the other team will put their best guys out against that lineup, and that lineup (or in this case, Timelord, is put in the game when things are going badly).
The Athletic is relentless with the TimeLord push...like it
https://theathletic.com/2450284/2021/03/15/robert-williams-perfect-game-proves-its-time-he-becomes-celtics-starting-big/
When Smart is ready to start, Brad needs to make the change. TimeLord starts and gets at least 24mpg. TT and Theis can get the balance based on match-ups. This team needs to start developing chemistry amongst its best players.
https://theathletic.com/2450284/2021/03/15/robert-williams-perfect-game-proves-its-time-he-becomes-celtics-starting-big/
When Smart is ready to start, Brad needs to make the change. TimeLord starts and gets at least 24mpg. TT and Theis can get the balance based on match-ups. This team needs to start developing chemistry amongst its best players.
Smart+Kemba being healthy is already having really nice trickle-down effects, in that you suddenly have enough wing minutes with just a limited dose of Semi+Grant, and no longer need to play 2 bigs.
Agree re building chemistry with the best players: this team seems to like each other, but is very choppy/disjointed on both ends of the floor. Any team with a Smart/Tatum/Brown core, plus 3 (!) defensive-minded centers needs to be monstrous defensively. I really don't care if Kemba/Teague/PP are mild liabilities--this team has too much defensive talent to be this shitty. Hopefully being healthy for an extended period can let them develop that.
I think Brad is handling TL well. Brad must have listened to you - sounds like he's going to jettison the two-big lineups for the most part. (“I talked to Theis at halftime — we’re going to be in a situation more now where one of those guys isn’t playing as much as we’re smaller,” Stevens said. “It won’t be the same guys every night, because it’ll be matchup dependent, and kind of who’s going. But all three are good players. Rob, obviously, gives us an upside there that I think we just need to keep building and building and building.”). So one of the 3 will be getting nights off.
As article notes, TL had never played 14+ minutes for more than 3 games in a row before this stretch. He now has a streak of 12 such games. Brad knows that TL is the one guy on the Cs that has an upside that is reachable this off-season but he also knows TL is playing more than he ever has. They need TL to play 24+ minutes in the playoffs and I 5gink Brad is slowly ramping things up to get him there.
The Celtics would obviously benefit by beating teams in the first quarter. This season, they have given up big first quarter points in way too many games for my liking.
A lineup of Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Smart, and TL should allow the team to get going early at both ends of the floor.
A lineup of Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Smart, and TL should allow the team to get going early at both ends of the floor.
Yea the injury risk is probably the only thing holding him back
I wouldn't want to guess his "playoff" minutes right now without seeing 15-20 games of starting with Kemba/Jays/Smart. BUT if he plays like this he'll get 30+mpg in the playoffs.
Brad won't be able to take him off the floor if TL's passing/assists start leading to easy baskets for our alpha scorers.
It's so interesting that TL has such obvious comps like Jordan and Capela—rim running athletic bigs who take a few seasons to start figuring things out—but then totally veers off into being a totally unique player because of his passing ability. Sometimes gets him into trouble trying to do too much, but for a raw big-type he has real vision and actual offensive chops in general. I would love to see him get some run with the starters, just to see what happens.
There are many nuances worth discussing, but uniqueness having a degree is not one of them. Either he is unique of he isn't.
That's the teacher in you. I think we all know what he means. Distinctiveness fits, or you can use specialness if you want to get cute.
Rob's size and leaping ability made him unique on day 1. Now after 2+ seasons he is turning it into production much like Jordan/Capela have before him. I believe that's Zep's point. Due to the complexity of the position (& other factors), BIGs take time
Does it not concern anyone that Scal and Mike were mocking TL for pretty much not knowing he’s doing out on the floor right now, both positive and negative? This reminds me of Jordan when he was young prior to picking up important nuances of the game (I don’t recall Capela as much but I think he was similar). These things take time. I just don’t see the benefit in starting him right now.
Agreed with those looking at individual matchups rather than minutes. Brad should be matching up TL’s minutes versus the lesser offensively skilled bigs to allow his strengths of weak side defense and rim protection shining while limiting/eliminating guys like Embiid, Jokic, Drummond, etc physically overmatching him.
I don’t really get the point of this comment. He has a skill that the Jordan/Capela/M. Robinson/McGee types often lack while being similar to them in other ways, that’s all.
You are unique or your are not unique. There is no such thing as being very unique or a little unique. You are unique or you're not. There are no degrees.
Unique means being one of a kind, like nothing else.
Yeah, it's like ATM machine.
Most of us don't care.
TL is also a "little" unique from Capela and Jordan because he racks up steals.
Embiid and Jokic may overmatch Rob, but that wouldn't make him unique
I still want to see it (in small doses), it's part of the learning process. The good thing is Rob looks like he is still getting better, so these gaudy per/36 numbers against 2nd string Centers may be real.
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TL is not as unique as DJ and Capela because he doesn't play hard on offense all the time. We saw him feast a bit against smaller covers when they played the Rockets' G league squad. I'd like to see TL ramp up his uniqueness a few degrees against better competition. A couple of vertical spacing alley ops per game are nice, but TL as a 15 ppg double double machine would be somewhat unique.
As much as I'd love to see 15/10, being the 5th offensive option it would be tough to squeeze 15ppg, especially without a 3pt stroke. Brad's offense is built around wing/ball handlers.
Even Al Horford, who orchestrated the offense at times, averaged ~ 13.5 pts / 7 rebs / 4.5 asst per 30mpg for the C's
Maybe, but Allen and Capela average around 14-15 a night. RWill is the type of player who can score 10 a night on just tips and offensive rebounds.
I didn't hear as much of that last night but he had a great game against a bad team.
I'll leave it up to the coaching staff to determine whether or not to start TL, but I wonder how much his athleticism and passing ability make up for his inexperience, and when we reach the point where the former clearly exceeds the latter. LIke, he might taketh away by being out of position on one trip but then giveth with a steal or second chance block on the next. Same on offense where he doesn't look as lost - he really has great passing ability and can move pretty well without the ball.
(All this said - TT had a great game, too, and looks better and better.)
If his fg% stays around 70% and he goes up to 30mpg, he'll have a real shot even if he's the 4th or 5th option.
Do TT or Theis have any type of trade value? Theis probably not, given he's a FA at year's end.
Theis is going to be the odd man out more often than not. In a 1 big lineup, he's the worst fit.
Theis is going to be the odd man out more often than not. In a 1 big lineup, he's the worst fit.
I get the feeling the rest of the team is still figuring out how to use his athleticism. Smart threw him an alley oop last night that looked like it was way off and he made it look easy coming back to tip the ball in with one hand. I think the Jays especially don't go to him in many situations where they could, and once they figure it out its going to be a real potent weapon.
Why would you say that? Rebounding I guess would be his weakness, but he's the only one who is a perimeter threat, and he's more of a rim protector than Thompson.
TT would absolutely have value to the Nets, who need a solid extra big. He’d make a lot of sense in Toronto too, but I’m getting the vibe they’ll be sellers, not buyers.
Beyond that? I’m not seeing a ton.
Rebounding, size. While he is more of an outside threat, he is also not an outside threat. The team doesn't need his shooting and he's an awful rebounder.
edit: Theis is also the FA to be. If you are going to piss someone off due to playing time, he's the guy you piss off.
Theis is the only one of the three who spaces the floor to open up late game penetrating lanes for Tatum, Jaylen, Kemba. When you add in FT shooting you don’t really want TT on the floor down the stretch. One set that I’ve seen effective is with TL on the baseline block occupying a big who must defend the lob.....which is a “unique” way to create space in the lane as that defending cannot easily help on the dribble drive. See what I did there.
I guess my point is that all 3 provide value based on matchups. Having only two available would place Brad in a bind.
I think JT has some tunnel vision when he's making a move but when he looks for TL, he can complete the pass.
JB, however, is currently not good at throwing alley-oops. He missed at least one to TL against BRK on a fast break that was pretty easy.
I totally do not interpret the commentary from Scal (mostly and Mike less) that TL doesn't know what he is doing.
I interpret as TL not knowing when he does spectacular things until he looks at the bench. I.e., the stuff he does comes so naturally - and easily - for him, that he doesn't know it's a highlight until he looks at the bench.
I think Brad has done a great job of developing TL and TL has shown that he knows enough to be a legit NBA starter. The only remaining question is health.
I won't be the typo police on your post but just want to point out that Jed did write, "then totally veers off into being a totally unique player" - which could mean that a fully realized TL is a unique player but a, err, "semi-realized" version of TL is not.
I wasn't being the typo police anyway. I was clarifying ReggieCleveland's stance.I totally do not interpret the commentary from Scal (mostly and Mike less) that TL doesn't know what he is doing.
I interpret as TL not knowing when he does spectacular things until he looks at the bench. I.e., the stuff he does comes so naturally - and easily - for him, that he doesn't know it's a highlight until he looks at the bench.
I think Brad has done a great job of developing TL and TL has shown that he knows enough to be a legit NBA starter. The only remaining question is health.
I won't be the typo police on your post but just want to point out that Jed did write, "then totally veers off into being a totally unique player" - which could mean that a fully realized TL is a unique player but a, err, "semi-realized" version of TL is not.
Understood; just having a little fun. I mean if where else other than SOSH can I talk about whether it's grammatically possible to "veer off into uniqueness"?
I think you missed the point of his last comment. Check out your are post he replied to.
When you decide to play grammar police, triple check your own post ;-)
I agree with your point in general. However, even Rodman at his peak (who ONLY seemed to care about defense and rebounds), was only good for between 8-9 points a game on those plays. I know the game has changed, but that might still be a high bar to throw out for just tips, OR put backs, etc. I think he's got a decent short-mid range shot when he's going well. I also don't recall Rodman seeking out the alley oops, and my recollection is that other than rewarding effort on transition buckets, nothing was being run for him offensively. (I make the comparison in my reply as a positive, I view RWIIIIII and Rodman in similar athletic 'marvel' category). I think most of us are in rough agreement about him having untapped upside, maybe to a varying degrees.
Perhaps this thought belongs in a more generalized offensive discussion, but I think the stars on the team (Js and K) would be well served in feeding his offensive monster because of the space, options they would receive in return. But I'm also of the believe that are not creating enough for each other, simply playing my turn, your turn for each other. That's not enough, and especially not come playoffs. The way they were all getting easy buckets off the Theis/Gortat seal last year is kind of what I'm thinking. At this point in their time together, I'm shocked that the Js don't have a few mostly unstoppable plays for each other which are so ingrained they could do them rolling out of bed 40 years from now. Just my two cents, and probably better served in a different thread - and maybe not much here in terms of unique thought... lol
Capela got to 14/11 in 28 minutes his fourth season, his first as a full time starter. TL has to show he can play with a motor for 28+ mpg to get to those numbers. He’s actually better at the vertical game, and has a little jumper. They both offensive rebound at the same high rate, and that’s where he will get a few buckets per game. TL also has a decent stroke from the FT line, and should improve there with consistent minutes.
TT bait?
Agree with both the Nets and his home country Raptors (they desperately need to get Baynes down to 10mpg)
I read somewhere that Phoenix could use a playoff experienced BIG to back up Ayton (Kaminsky?)
San Antonio, with Aldridge waiting for his buy-out, has been running Poeltl into the ground (nub potential)
Lakers could use him. Gasol looks bad in the minutes I have seen and Harrel has been a huge disappointment
why do you think Reggie loves him so much?
On June 23, 2011, Thompson was drafted fourth overall in the 2011 NBA draft by the Cleveland Cavaliers. At the time, he was the highest drafted Canadian-born player in NBA history,[17] that was until Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins were selected with the first overall pick in 2013 and 2014, respectively. Thompson continued to make history, drafted alongside Joseph, who was picked 29th by the San Antonio Spurs, one of only two occasions in NBA history that two Canadians were selected in the first round of the same draft, the other being in 1983 when Leo Rautins and Stewart Granger were selected 17th and 25th respectively
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Thompson
One thing I've noticed (and the commentators have commented on this, too) is that Rob W. gets a lot of attention as a rim runner. It's kind of funny to see Tatum driving to the basket, and him being single covered (even sometimes not covered) because people are covering RW as he rolls towards the basket.