I can never be satisfied. Can you?

What's it gotta be?


  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .

grimshaw

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May 16, 2007
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So for all of you that think the Sox have no chance to advance against the Astros and Indians, I ask you - Can you not envision a Bumgarner-esque postseason for Chris Sale? Is it impossible that Pomeranz maintain his form and give the team another one of his patented 5 2/3 1R efforts that allows Price-to-Reed-to-Kimbrel to shut the door for a 3-1 Game 2 win? Is Mookie incapable of having a great run in the playoffs? Are Benny and Devers doomed to be overmatched rookies?
Sale could possibly do that - but isn't it just as likely if not more so that Kluber is that guy for the Indians given what he has been able to do against the Sox vs. what Sale has done against Cleveland?
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
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Sep 19, 2005
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I had almost completely accepted I'd be more than satisfied that they'd won the division in such a weird year but it only takes half a playoff game to make me realise that's bullshit.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
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May 20, 2003
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Agreed. It was a good season and a satisfying one but watching the so-called ace barf up a hairball in his first postseason appearance takes a lot of the shine off the whole thing.
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
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Aug 1, 2001
11,370
the worst part for Sox fans is reality that they are light years behind Cleveland and Astros, have been passed by the Yankees and are worse than three teams in the NL at least. And that gap is likely to get wider next year. with almost nothing of value in the system, it feels like the window has closed
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
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You crazy. The Sox have 6 young position regulars that are home grown and good (Mookie, JBJ, Benintendi, Devers, X, Vazquez). Their top 3 starters are under control and still relatively young.

Thy are probably not good enough to win this year (the lack of power really hurts them) but the core still has many years of prime baseball amongst its members.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
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Sep 19, 2005
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Yeah I think criticising this team for having a closing window is insane.

They've run into an excellent team in Houston, who even if they beat would probably (?) lead them to an even more excellent team in Cleveland.

That still doesn't make it any more palatable but saying their window has closed ignores the reality of the roster. We don't have anything in the system precisely because we've put it all onto the major league roster.
 

sean1562

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Sep 17, 2011
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Why cant we make a big signing? Are we a small market team now? Why cant Devers improve and be a middle of the order bat? Did you see Judge's line from last year? Devers is 20 years old!
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
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Mar 11, 2008
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They could bring the exactly same offense back next and it could be greatly improved just by random variation. They had a poor year at the plate collectively. That's not to say they shouldn't look to add some power (maybe a better power bat at 1st than Morland?) but even just a full year of Devers should help the season numbers.

The issue is that the Yankees are likely to be better as well and they have a shit ton of money coming off the books to use in adding to their core. I think there is a pretty good chance that the Sox come into 2018 as the likely runner up in the AL East, even if they are better than they were this year.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
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Mar 11, 2008
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Why cant we make a big signing? Are we a small market team now? Why cant Devers improve and be a middle of the order bat? Did you see Judge's line from last year? Devers is 20 years old!
Because they're nearly maxed out up against the threshold before the winter gets rolling. They don't have much room to maneuver financially, unfortunately. So it's a good thing they are already a really good team.

I suppose they could choose to punt on the draft and IFA period next year and just blow past the threshold, but considering how thin the farm is, that would probably be a poor decision.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Shit if the offense just regresses to the mean and Price pitches more and Porcello pitches better, they’d be like a 100 win team
 

MikeM

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May 27, 2010
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Because they're nearly maxed out up against the threshold before the winter gets rolling. They don't have much room to maneuver financially, unfortunately. So it's a good thing they are already a really good team.

I suppose they could choose to punt on the draft and IFA period next year and just blow past the threshold, but considering how thin the farm is, that would probably be a poor decision.
You keep pointing out that this ownership is going to be shooting to stay under the threshold, but it's not clear whether that's even possible in the process of doing nothing more then handing out arby raises and an absolute minimum of league min contracts to fill the roster (beyond the options that are obviously going to be exercised).

I suppose they could always take a mostly subtraction approach to this off-season though, in the name of keeping those threshold penalty concerns at bay. But I'm guessing a lot of people are going to see a big problem with the reality involved in how that would have to work (which isn't going to be anything like somebody picking up half of Hanley's contract, for example).
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
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Mar 11, 2008
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I keep saying it because it's true. They aren't going over if they can avoid it. This isn't your father's CBA.

The won 93 games and can reasonably expect to improve that record even if they do almost nothing. They aren't splashing the pot.

Edit: Doing some more digging, the new draft pick "compensation" system has nothing to do with the LT threshold. The picks given up for signing QO players are tied to revenue sharing, which is based on market size. So the Sox could have a 40 million dollar payroll and still have to cough up their 2nd and 5th round picks to sign, say, JD Martinez to a 3 year $60M contract.

I still think that might be sufficient reason for them to avoid the free agent market this winter, given the weak state of the farm enhancing the importance of having a couple of strong drafts and IFA periods in a row. But it's by no means a lock like I thought it was.

Edit: Not really the place to discuss it, but MLB has gone really really far to force parity on the league. Yikes.
 
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grimshaw

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Edit: Doing some more digging, the new draft pick "compensation" system has nothing to do with the LT threshold. The picks given up for signing QO players are tied to revenue sharing, which is based on market size. So the Sox could have a 40 million dollar payroll and still have to cough up their 2nd and 5th round picks to sign, say, JD Martinez to a 3 year $60M contract.
I don't think Martinez is eligible. You have to be with the same team for a year to get a QO and he was traded. But ya, other free agent bats in the upcoming market I'm meh on them potentially giving up picks for.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
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I don't think Martinez is eligible. You have to be with the same team for a year to get a QO and he was traded. But ya, other free agent bats in the upcoming market I'm meh on them potentially giving up picks for.
You are correct. I picked the wrong player to use as an example. Of course, that makes Martinez a really attractive option this winter, if they can convince him to leave Arizona (he supposedly loves it there).
 

Zupcic Fan

loves 8 inch long meat
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Oct 27, 2001
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I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I am already satisfied wit the season. All I ever ask for is meaningful games in September
For this particular team I have less emotional involvement than usual. I don't like the manager the way I did Francona, and whether they win or lose a game, I get too annoyed at the constant barrage of bad at bats. It seems as though any pitcher with a half decent slider can get all of them to swing at anything. So if they lose this playoff series, I won't react that badly since to me they'll be losing to a team that they should lose to. That team has hitters. I think the only thing that could get me to feel really bad will be if the Yankees somehow beat Cleveland.
 

MikeM

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May 27, 2010
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I keep saying it because it's true. They aren't going over if they can avoid it. This isn't your father's CBA.
No teams obviously wants to go over if they can avoid it, and I already understand why people are in the love with the surface concept atm. I'm more concerned with the "how does it actually happen" aspect involved that would even support it, especially if/when people keep making the implication.

Again, options/arby/roster-fills add up fast. Even if that alone doesn't push us over and we somehow manage to walk out of the winter squeaking under by a literal hair, it's not like "planning" to then spend nothing extra over the course of a season is any less of a poor decision/projection. So given there isn't a Clay Buchholz type contract on our books that essentially sticks out as an easily expendable piece this go round, where are you identifying that budget cut potentially coming from anyway? It seems to me that if you are going to keep insisting that the FO maintains a staying under priority, you should probably have a pretty solid projection answer to such in the process of making the claim.

Who/what contract goes? Because the most realistic subtraction approach I'd be able to guess there is Kimbrel being shipped off in a prospect deal, and we still spend the winter trying to scrape the very bottom of the FA bowl.
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
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Feb 4, 2012
38,187
I was fine with last years outcome, what hurt more was not giving Ortiz a chance at the ALCS. His career ended on a whimper but I was proud of the team for getting there.

I’m feeling about the same. This season was more up and down than any I can recall so I have no idea what to expect. I could see them sweep the entire post season as easy as I can see them get swept out in the DS.

I would like to see them put up a fight. That’s all.
My thoughts are the same, and unfortunately again, they've failed to put up a fight. I'm disappointed with them.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
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Dec 4, 2009
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I do wonder if the large amount of extra innings is taking its toll on the team this year.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
24,386
At this point all I ask is for the Sox to be competitive. Not even talking about a competitive series. I'm talking about a competitive game.

I mean, these have been two absolute ass kickings by Houston.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Jan 2, 2006
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I'll be there Sunday and Monday. Would just like them to put up a fight Sunday. Maybe even take a lead if that's not too much to ask.
 

Sampo Gida

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Aug 7, 2010
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I haven't really bought into this this team since June. Sale and Kimbrel carried them early on , and the pitching overall has been good, but the offense was blah.

Sale obviously on fumes since August. Pedey, Nunez, XB not 100% but nobody really was an exceptional force in the lineup

I thought Houston was our best chance to get to the LCS and still believe so. After 2004 I won't say its over but I feel like I did after game 3. Maybe they can repeat and make me feel stupid again.

If they lose I hope they move on from JF. Not blaming him for it all but change can be good unless its something stupid like a Bobby V equivalent.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
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Oct 19, 2008
12,408
Shit if the offense just regresses to the mean and Price pitches more and Porcello pitches better, they’d be like a 100 win team
Because nobody else had any injuries or underperfance or promising young players or budget to sign a marquee free agent. Only the Red Sox will improve over over the winter. The rest of the league will tread water or get worse.

Think what the Yankees offense will like a with full season of Bird hitting like he did in September and a good third baseman from the free agent pool (or Andujar). Both Betances and Chapman had off years. They'll sign the best available starting pitcher and trade for another one.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Because nobody else had any injuries or underperfance or promising young players or budget to sign a marquee free agent. Only the Red Sox will improve over over the winter. The rest of the league will tread water or get worse.

Think what the Yankees offense will like a with full season of Bird hitting like he did in September and a good third baseman from the free agent pool (or Andujar). Both Betances and Chapman had off years. They'll sign the best available starting pitcher and trade for another one.
That wasn’t my point. My point was that this team significantly underperformed in many areas and somehow won 93 games. Slightly better performance in a couple areas and they would have won like 100. Which seems crazy
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
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Oct 19, 2008
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That wasn’t my point. My point was that this team significantly underperformed in many areas and somehow won 93 games. Slightly better performance in a couple areas and they would have won like 100. Which seems crazy
18-3 in extra innings. A couple other bounces and they win 87 games.
 

dcmissle

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Aug 4, 2005
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The point being that reasonable projections run in both directions. So yes, one can probably assume improvement at the plate. But you can't at the same time start with a 93 win base.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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The point being that reasonable projections run in both directions. So yes, one can probably assume improvement at the plate. But you can't at the same time start with a 93 win base.
Whether you use 1.81, 1.83, or 2, the Sox RS / RA translates into 93-94 wins. They did not outperform pythag based on the extra innings W-L record. So I do think 93 wins is a fair base, actually.
 

dcmissle

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Whether you use 1.81, 1.83, or 2, the Sox RS / RA translates into 93-94 wins. They did not outperform pythag based on the extra innings W-L record. So I do think 93 wins is a fair base, actually.
Skewed by lots of extreme outcomes in their favor. Rough count -- the won 27 games by 5 runs or more. They lost 10 such games.

Combine that with the extra inning record, and they were playing in the best of all possible worlds.

Edit. They are a confounding team. They have the pen and ability to play under pressure to compile the extra inning record. They are great bullies, as the blowout wins attest. But when they get down, when one of those cold streaks gets going, they have one hell of a time pulling out of it.
 
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jungleboy

New Member
Mar 1, 2016
153
Skewed by lots of extreme outcomes in their favor. Rough count -- the won 27 games by 5 runs or more. They lost 10 such games.
Excuse my ignorance but isn't that basically the point of a pythag record? That blowouts (which affect run differential) tell you more about how good a team is than close games (which don't affect run differential that much)?
 

dcmissle

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It's an excellent starting point for the analysis and obviously useful information. Going by run differential alone, one would have concluded that the Yankees smoked the Red Sox in the division race this year.
 

jon abbey

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Think what the Yankees offense will like a with full season of Bird hitting like he did in September and a good third baseman from the free agent pool (or Andujar). Both Betances and Chapman had off years. They'll sign the best available starting pitcher and trade for another one.
I think the SP situation for NY is a lot more unclear than that, but I've talked about that in depth in the Yankee section and will do so more once the season is over. I did want to note you're forgetting Gleyber Torres, who was on a pretty similar track to Devers before getting hurt in July.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
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Oct 19, 2008
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I think the SP situation for NY is a lot more unclear than that, but I've talked about that in depth in the Yankee section and will do so more once the season is over. I did want to note you're forgetting Gleyber Torres, who was on a pretty similar track to Devers before getting hurt in July.
I wasn't really forgetting him. I just figure it would be much harder for him to improve on the numbers that Didi or Castro put up this year than for Bird and a third baseman to improve what you got from the corners.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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It's an excellent starting point for the analysis and obviously useful information. Going by run differential alone, one would have concluded that the Yankees smoked the Red Sox in the division race this year.
The point is the Sox were exactly deserving of their 93 wins. With a little better performance from the lineup, Price, and Porcello, they could have been deserving of 96-100 wins.

Of course we might see some regression from Sale, Pom, Kimbrel, maybe others next year, but IMO there is more room for upside next year than downsize, which is encouraging. Bringing this same roster back nexr year I would bet on more than 93 wins based on that. YMMV
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
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It's an excellent starting point for the analysis and obviously useful information. Going by run differential alone, one would have concluded that the Yankees smoked the Red Sox in the division race this year.
Actually, the conclusion to draw would probably be that the Yankees are the better team, which is likely accurate.
 

MikeM

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Two upcoming games at Fenway so you never know, but I think I'll be able to make my peace with losing as long as I'm not forced into keeping tabs on the Yankees over the next couple of weeks. Having chalked up the season to anything can happen...including one of the more likely outcomes. Houston was/is just a terrible match up for our team.

Being satisfied this off-season is going to be a real challenge though. Might shape up to have that damned if you do/damned if you don't feel to it, and I'm not sure I fully trust 3rd year DD to find a middle ground approach we wouldn't end up regretting.
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
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Today satisfied me. If they go out tomorrow, so be it. I saw some fight and saw them have fun finally and that was nice to see.
 

MikeM

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Today was nice, but for me it will still boil down to being more of a pretender performance if the team comes up limp tomorrow.

So yeah offense, please don't suck tomorrow.
 

canyoubelieveit

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Today (I guess yesterday now) certainly helped. I'd still really like for this team to win more games in the ALDS than the Yankees do. Was hoping yesterday was the day to make that happen. But yesterday was a solid all-around win featuring a comeback, some very good hitting, pitching, and defense. Infinitely better to have even one game like that than to be swept, so I'm feeling much better now.
 

shaggydog2000

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I said I wanted them to be competitive in the series, so game 3 was a big step. If they win game 4 that creates a chance to win the series. After feeling like they didn't have a chance to win almost from the start of the first two games, that would be huge, no matter what happens in game 5.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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They fought. It sucks but they fought.
Yep. Always sad losing but the Astros are better and the Sox had their best pitchers on the mound trying to close the door. They didn't do it.

Not to make excuses (because there's no excuse for how Kimbrel pitched today, for example), but we need to remember that Pedey, Bogaerts, and Betts are all playing hurt (maybe at 80%), and Nunez - one of their best bats in Aug-Sept - was so crippled that he couldn't even play.
 

DeadlySplitter

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a lot of our warts showed up to end the year, which makes it hard to find this season fully satisfying.

-starting Pork was probably a mistake, he had nothing and was very lucky to only give up 2 - if Sale manages 5 innings 1 ER to start the game, it's a very different feeling game. Hopefully the real Pork is closer to 2016 than 2017.
-the ump robbed us of some calls in the 2nd but we still went K, K, meek flyout with bases loaded. we were awful with the bases loaded all year - not a single grand slam to our name.
-a dumb send with two outs in 3rd which felt a bit too desperate.
-Again offense disappearing for much of the middle innings, not only unable to tack on but not even getting baserunners

a lot - too much - went wrong, but we were pretty close to forcing a game 5. if Kimbrel didn't submit a bottom-tier performance, we might have walked it off. It would have been really fucking nice if Sale had his slider in game 1, too.